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Toa Velika


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#1 Offline wolf66849

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Posted Jan 13 2013 - 03:30 PM

Now we all know that is the Kingdom Alternate Universe Takanuva sacrificed his toa powers to make 6 more toa, but Velika was a Great Being so how did he change to? I was just wondering if anyone had a good explaination.


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#2 Online Last Son Amakusa

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Posted Jan 13 2013 - 03:32 PM

Only his mind was a great being; he had a matoran body. As a result, he could still transform.


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#3 Offline Dual Cee

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Posted Jan 13 2013 - 03:37 PM

Changing into a toa doesn't change the mind but changes the body, seeing he was in a matoran body it's very possible for him turning into a toa, also him being a GB, altough hidden, would actually higher his chances in turning into a toa.
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#4 Offline TLhikan

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Posted Jan 13 2013 - 04:20 PM

Changing into a toa doesn't change the mind but changes the body, seeing he was in a matoran body it's very possible for him turning into a toa, also him being a GB, altough hidden, would actually higher his chances in turning into a toa.

 

I'm not sure that his being a Great Being would increase his "chances" of turning into a Toa. It's a matter of destiny. Of course, I don't really understand how destiny works in Bionicle that well anyway...

 

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#5 Offline Baron Von Nebula

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Posted Jan 13 2013 - 04:25 PM

In addition to the fact that Velika's matoran body can become a toa like any other matoran, we don't even know if this alternate universe's "Velika" was a GB in disguise, since that alternate universe appeared before the "hidden GB"-thing.


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#6 Online Last Son Amakusa

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Posted Jan 13 2013 - 04:32 PM

No, the Hidden GB was in the MU since its creation; the Kingdom splintered off when Matoro failed to revive Mata Nui.
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#7 Offline Dual Cee

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Posted Jan 13 2013 - 04:46 PM

Changing into a toa doesn't change the mind but changes the body, seeing he was in a matoran body it's very possible for him turning into a toa, also him being a GB, altough hidden, would actually higher his chances in turning into a toa.

 I'm not sure that his being a Great Being would increase his "chances" of turning into a Toa. It's a matter of destiny. Of course, I don't really understand how destiny works in Bionicle that well anyway... -TLhikan
I was refereing to the unconfirmed rule of toaness that states: "You've got to be crazy or exentric to become toa" which fits Velika quite well, but its unconfirmed.

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#8 Offline Mr. Coffee

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Posted Jan 13 2013 - 04:47 PM

How do you know? Perhaps in that AU, Velika never decided to inhabit the MU, as such events on Voya Nui were just slightly different but had enough effect on Matoro to cause him to fail?. Discussions like these are pointless because there is not enough information on the matter. One can come of with 1000 valid stories for why that is so.


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#9 Offline Dual Cee

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Posted Jan 13 2013 - 05:06 PM

How do you know? Perhaps in that AU, Velika never decided to inhabit the MU, as such events on Voya Nui were just slightly different but had enough effect on Matoro to cause him to fail?. Discussions like these are pointless because there is not enough information on the matter. One can come of with 1000 valid stories for why that is so.
I can remember Greg confirmed him being a GB too, can someone check that?

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#10 Offline Cratak

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Posted Jan 13 2013 - 05:34 PM

In Bionicle canon storyline, each alternate universe springs from a different choice made by someone. For the Kingdom, it was Toa Matoro's failure to act quick enough, and for the Empire, Nidhiki teamed with Tuyet to kill Lhikan. I assume that the reason why Greg never developed an alternate universe that included more than just a one different decision is because he didn't want to have to take a whole book to describe a side story.


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#11 Offline Captain Caboose

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Posted Jan 13 2013 - 05:40 PM

I'm wondering is why we didn't know about him in the first place as a GB. Also I think they should have already figured it out in that alternate reality. 


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#12 Offline T.B.O.C

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Posted Jan 13 2013 - 07:37 PM

How do you know? Perhaps in that AU, Velika never decided to inhabit the MU, as such events on Voya Nui were just slightly different but had enough effect on Matoro to cause him to fail?. Discussions like these are pointless because there is not enough information on the matter. One can come of with 1000 valid stories for why that is so.

 

 

If he wasn't the universe would have diverged there, by him not choosing to be in the MU as Velika. So, he was a GB in the Kingdom Alt. Universe.


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#13 Offline -Jaller-

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Posted Jan 18 2013 - 12:11 AM

Matoran body's can transform into Toa with the needed Toa power. Velika is possesing a matoran body, since only his mind is in the body, his body can change and be altered as we learned from Karzahni's "repairs" meaning that it would be logical to assume that he could be transformed into a Toa if given the needed Toa power to transform.


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#14 Online bonesiii

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Posted Jan 18 2013 - 11:10 AM

How do you know? Perhaps in that AU, Velika never decided to inhabit the MU, as such events on Voya Nui were just slightly different but had enough effect on Matoro to cause him to fail?. Discussions like these are pointless because there is not enough information on the matter. One can come of with 1000 valid stories for why that is so.

 

 

If he wasn't the universe would have diverged there, by him not choosing to be in the MU as Velika. So, he was a GB in the Kingdom Alt. Universe.

How do you know it did NOT diverge there? :) Greg told us that alternate universes can (and usually do) have multiple deviations that eventually add up to a big split.What would happen if Velika the GB did not choose to enter the MU? What if he prepared a plan for himself to do so, including a destiny for a Matoran by his name to be made, but decided at the last second to pull out, and when that destiny programming eventually ran, the Matoran creation process generated a mind for the Matoran as normal? Then there could be a Matoran named Velika that is not a GB. :shrugs:

 

Of course, that's highly unlikely, but just sayin'. We shouldn't just assume.

 

 

As for an "unconfirmed rule" about destined Matoran seeming crazy, that sounds like a fan rumor (a false one) to me. Who would it even apply to, in-story?

 

They do tend to be noteworthy in some way, but then so does everybody. :P

 

Takua was a special case but more because he wasn't really Ta; he probably would have seemed different in about the same ways even if he was just a non-destined Av-Matoran.


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#15 Offline Katuko

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Posted Jan 18 2013 - 11:47 AM

As for an "unconfirmed rule" about destined Matoran seeming crazy, that sounds like a fan rumor (a false one) to me. Who would it even apply to, in-story?
It's one feather becomes five hens, applied to the comment from Jerbraz about Krakua:
"Someone thinks he may wind up a Toa someday," Jerbraz continued. "I can see why. Matoran with the calling sometimes are a little ... eccentric. Almost like their brain knows something it isn’t telling them."
Eccentric --> A bit "off" --> A bit insane, perhaps --> Crazy.Helryx also commented on how being insane was a prerequisite for being a Toa, though that was of course a joke.
"Haven't you figured it out yet? You have to be insane to be a Toa at all. It's the first requirement for the job."
It stands to reason that if you take it a bit too literally, then marking an eccentric, crazy or otherwise "different" Matoran as a possible Toa does make some sense. From a narrative point of view, a character being unique often means that they have some special relevance to the story. BIONICLE tends to have lots and lots of unique side characters with next to no screen time, though, so in this setting it doesn't apply so much. Take all the Dark Hunters, for example.

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#16 Offline Dual Cee

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Posted Jan 18 2013 - 12:20 PM

As for an "unconfirmed rule" about destined Matoran seeming crazy, that sounds like a fan rumor (a false one) to me. Who would it even apply to, in-story?

It's one feather becomes five hens, applied to the comment from Jerbraz about Krakua:

"Someone thinks he may wind up a Toa someday," Jerbraz continued. "I can see why. Matoran with the calling sometimes are a little ... eccentric. Almost like their brain knows something it isn’t telling them."

Eccentric --> A bit "off" --> A bit insane, perhaps --> Crazy.Helryx also commented on how being insane was a prerequisite for being a Toa, though that was of course a joke.
"Haven't you figured it out yet? You have to be insane to be a Toa at all. It's the first requirement for the job.
It stands to reason that if you take it a bit too literally, then marking an eccentric, crazy or otherwise "different" Matoran as a possible Toa does make some sense. From a narrative point of view, a character being unique often means that they have some special relevance to the story. BIONICLE tends to have lots and lots of unique side characters with next to no screen time, though, so in this setting it doesn't apply so much. Take all the Dark Hunters, for example.  

 

 Thats what I was referring at (I said crazy because I couldn't spell eccentric :)) also there was some quote or from the metrus or from the inika that sounded a bit like: 

No wonder we were chosen to be toa nobody else would have been craze enough  to ake the job.

Also found this is the GregF answers topic:  :) :)

(Watch out topic is dead)

 

 

Was Velika in the Kingdom Alternate Universe also a Great Being?

 

 

Yes


Edited by Dual Matrix, Jan 18 2013 - 12:29 PM.

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#17 Offline Lord Nektann

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Posted Jan 20 2013 - 01:38 PM

So in the Kingdom, that alt universe diverged in late 2007. All stuff before that happened exactly as it did in the main universe.

 

Now, Velika's mind is in a Po-Matoran form, he's not a shapeshifting GB. Interestingly, it's not confirmed if Velika has a real Matoran personality the GB's suppressing, or Velika was made just for the GB, and thus has no personality. Either way, Velika in the main universe does have latent Toa Power and can become a Toa. This is likely by design on the GB's part to see if he'll end up a Toa.

 

All the Kingdom Toa, in the main universe all have latent Toa power. Kapura, Balta, Dalu, Defilak, Velika, and Tanma all have the Toa potential there in the main universe. So we could (if story happens ever) see those six becoming Toa.


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