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BIONICLE MAFIA II: ELECTRIC BOOGALOO


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#161 Offline Xaeraz

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Posted Feb 18 2013 - 11:43 PM

[color=#4b0082;]Man, it's a game. Feels to me like you're taking it crazy seriously, more so than is needed.[/color]


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#162 Offline Krelsin

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Posted Feb 18 2013 - 11:58 PM

[color=#4b0082;]Man, it's a game. Feels to me like you're taking it crazy seriously, more so than is needed.[/color]

It's not the game, it's just frustrating when you're trying to tell me that BZP mafia is different to any other mafia because of players who don't care, I explain why, and then you tell me "it's just a game", as if saying that somehow justifies what you've been saying this whole time.

 

I'll use an example.  It's like me telling you "1+1=2" and you say "no it isn't".  I explain why and you say "no no, this is BZP math, this is different because people here don't take math seriously."  I then explain why it doesn't matter, and then you say "you take math crazy seriously more so than is needed."


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#163 Online An/A Blade

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 12:01 AM

Nine out of ten times, if the detective reveals himself at all, everyone either a) doesn't believe him precisely because of en masse role claiming in the past, or b) gets him killed because they believe him, but can't do a thing about it, because others don't believe him, and then the Mafia targets him. He's definitely dead if the latter case happens but with the doctor being of the former variety.

 

I raise an eyebrow at your comment about 'skill', however. I would say we have some of the most talented players here. Half of us have singlehandedly won a game for our sides multiple times, I'd say; and the rest have only just started playing a couple games ago.

 

Also, I don't get why people would be glad to not talk about the game, and simply watch, after they're dead. If those rules were in play, you, IIRC, wouldn't be allowed in the topic right now, to debate this. For one, that's not allowed if I recalled G&T guidelines correctly. Secondly, what fun is it to just sit around and watch a game, not even being able to comment on stuff? Considering half our games typically have weird roles to balance it out, like, say, the godfather who could take out the good roles in one swipe if things leaked out; I'd say it's rather even, and allows people who are ghosts to participate still. =/


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#164 Offline Krelsin

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 12:13 AM

Nine out of ten times, if the detective reveals himself at all, everyone either a) doesn't believe him precisely because of en masse role claiming in the past, or b) gets him killed because they believe him, but can't do a thing about it, because others don't believe him, and then the Mafia targets him. He's definitely dead if the latter case happens but with the doctor being of the former variety.

 

I raise an eyebrow at your comment about 'skill', however. I would say we have some of the most talented players here. Half of us have singlehandedly won a game for our sides multiple times, I'd say; and the rest have only just started playing a couple games ago.

 

Also, I don't get why people would be glad to not talk about the game, and simply watch, after they're dead. If those rules were in play, you, IIRC, wouldn't be allowed in the topic right now, to debate this. For one, that's not allowed if I recalled G&T guidelines correctly. Secondly, what fun is it to just sit around and watch a game, not even being able to comment on stuff? Considering half our games typically have weird roles to balance it out, like, say, the godfather who could take out the good roles in one swipe if things leaked out; I'd say it's rather even, and allows people who are ghosts to participate still. =/

If there is only one detective claim, it either means the detective has claimed or that a traitor has claimed and the detective has not (because of lack of skill).

 

And he shouldn't get killed because doctor should immediately save him.  If the doctor doesn't save him, it's because of a lack of skill.

 

I don't doubt that some of the players here are the best of BZP.  And I'm sure you have won your side over, but I'm sure at the beginning of the game it was random lynches and you had to hope with all your heart that doc and detective didn't die.

 

It's fair to talk about the game to other people who are dead, but it's unfair for the living to use the dead to further them in the game.  I'm taking advantage of the fact that there's no rule against this.  I figure if it causes town to win quickly, you may consider why it isn't beneficial.  So I'm not saying it's not fair that people shouldn't talk when they're dead, but they shouldn't give away information that influences the game.  The problem is that it's so subjective to what is giving away things, that it's completely fairer to have dead people not talk in the topic.  So the optimal situation is to have dead allowed to talk, but not influence the game and give advice.

 

Extra roles make the gameplay different, I'll agree on that, but it doesn't stop dead people revealling stuff they shouldn't, otherwise.


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#165 Online An/A Blade

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 12:20 AM

But, then, where does that line get drawn? When the detective dies, is he then not able to reveal what he knows? In a perfect world, he gets to reveal it at lynch time, but if he gets killed because the detective and doc haven't discovered each other yet, then there's no way to have gotten his info out; and honestly, there's no guarantee that the doctor who PMs him is the real doctor. If I were in that situation, I would personally use it to my advantage; use it to try and convince the Detective I was the actual Doctor, and then... shall we say, let him down. The other problem is if the Mafians just plain get lucky and kill either the detective or doctor. No claim in the world would save them then.


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#166 Offline Krelsin

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 12:32 AM

But, then, where does that line get drawn? When the detective dies, is he then not able to reveal what he knows? In a perfect world, he gets to reveal it at lynch time, but if he gets killed because the detective and doc haven't discovered each other yet, then there's no way to have gotten his info out; and honestly, there's no guarantee that the doctor who PMs him is the real doctor. If I were in that situation, I would personally use it to my advantage; use it to try and convince the Detective I was the actual Doctor, and then... shall we say, let him down. The other problem is if the Mafians just plain get lucky and kill either the detective or doctor. No claim in the world would save them then.

 

If the detective dies, he is not able to reveal what he knows.  If he's getting lynched, he should tell people he's detective, and if people won't change their votes (which they should, unless there's a counter claim to detective), he should out his reports before he dies.  That's one of the reasons why you want to out him so he doesn't die, or can evidence out earlier.

 

The doctor doesn't need to PM him, the doctor just needs to anonymously heal him, because as you said, there's no guarantee that the person who PMs is the real doctor.

 

Yes the mafians can get plain lucky and kill the detective or doctor.  That's one of the reasons detective outs day one.  Also, that's when play gets a bit different, but since I didn't want to confuse everyone, I didn't go into scenarios where either doctor or detective dies.

 

I'll try and go through what happens when detective claims day 1 and a villager has died.

 

If mafia counterclaims:

Don't lynch either detective, get them to tell guilties when they have them, and to reveal all reports on lynch or lose.  In the meantime, doc will try to save those who didn't claim detective, and town can judge people for their reactions and who they vote.  In scenarios with smaller amounts of players, yes it's more acceptable to lynch a detective, but I won't go into that.  If mafia kills detective, you lynch the counterclaim, and it's 1 for 1.  Since there's a lot of players and few town power roles, this is a bit unbalanced for town, but this is the part where you rely on doctor/scumhunting.  Power roles are useful not just because of their abilities, but because they can make themselves confirmed innocent by claiming, or making it 50/50 if someone counterclaims.

 

If mafia doesn't counterclaim:

Detective leads the lynch each day, making sure the town doesn't lynch his innocents.  Doctor continuously heals the detective.  The detective, keeps his innocents secret until the day when outting all reports will mean autowin.  This is heavily townsided and is exactly why mafia should counterclaim.

 

Edit:

 

But yes, "where do you draw the line" is an issue, and that's why mafia is usually way fairer and funner realtime.


Edited by Krelsin, Feb 19 2013 - 12:35 AM.

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#167 Offline Lloyd: the White Wolf

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 12:58 AM

 I'm taking advantage of the fact that there's no rule against this.  I figure if it causes town to win quickly, you may consider why it isn't beneficial.

You're forgetting one thing--we've been doing this for what, forty plus games now? We know exactly the capabilities of someone who's not alive. It's been quite beneficial.

 

:w:


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#168 Offline Krelsin

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 01:56 AM

 I'm taking advantage of the fact that there's no rule against this.  I figure if it causes town to win quickly, you may consider why it isn't beneficial.

You're forgetting one thing--we've been doing this for what, forty plus games now? We know exactly the capabilities of someone who's not alive. It's been quite beneficial.

 

:w:

"Isn't beneficial" as in makes the game imbalanced, not helps the town out.

 

Edit: But then again, after thinking about it, since the dead people don't know everyone's roles, then it's a smaller difference than I thought, since that's something I didn't consider.

 

If detective claims to dead person, and mafia also claims detective, and if they keep feeding reports, that's the same sort of idea as detective claiming in the topic, except, the mafia can't see the detective's reports, so can accidentally clear some innocents by innocenting some of the same people as detective.

 

Actually, yeah, I still think it's imbalanced, but not as bad as I thought it was.


Edited by Krelsin, Feb 19 2013 - 02:10 AM.

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#169 Offline Lloyd: the White Wolf

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 02:07 AM

Pretty much. :rolleyes:

 

:w:


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#170 Offline Krelsin

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 02:13 AM

Pretty much. :rolleyes:

 

:w:

So the smart thing now to do would be for every player to claim their role to the dead innocents, but the problem is everyone would be too lazy.


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#171 Offline Lloyd: the White Wolf

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 02:16 AM

That's actually a tactic I use quite commonly when i get killed. It's probably the reason I'm alive--if I was killed, my innocence would be confirmed. :P

 

:w:


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#172 Offline Krelsin

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 02:21 AM

That's actually a tactic I use quite commonly when i get killed. It's probably the reason I'm alive--if I was killed, my innocence would be confirmed. :P

 

:w:

Ah yeah.  Let the claims begin!

 

And if you think about it, dead people are less like dead people are more like injured people. :P


Edited by Krelsin, Feb 19 2013 - 02:21 AM.

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#173 Offline Xaeraz

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 03:00 AM

That's actually a tactic I use quite commonly when i get killed. It's probably the reason I'm alive--if I was killed, my innocence would be confirmed. :P

 

:w:

Ah yeah.  Let the claims begin!

 

And if you think about it, dead people are less like dead people are more like injured people. :P

[color=#4b0082;]I prefer to think of it as the fabric of reality in any game is very thin, so we have a bunch of ghosts possessing their own dessicated corpses and gurgling at the living.[/color]

 

[color=#4b0082;]It's a very pretty picture.[/color]


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#174 Offline Fairy Paladin

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 03:29 AM

[color=#4b0082;]I prefer to think of it as the fabric of reality in any game is very thin, so we have a bunch of ghosts possessing their own dessicated corpses and gurgling at the living.[/color]

 

[color=#4b0082;]It's a very pretty picture.[/color]

... so we don't have proper funerals for the dead again? Sheesh. <_<


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#175 Offline The Dandy Automaton

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 06:39 AM

We're too busy hunting the Mafians to take time to give them all proper funerals. For now we just dump them in a pile and let them gibber away, occasionally lending an ear to whatever it is they have to say. 

 

The Chattering Corpse Heap has become something of a tourist attraction recently. 


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#176 Offline DuctorCoch

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 07:40 AM

We're too busy indiscriminately slaughtering each other to take time to give them all proper funerals. For now we just dump them in a pile and let them gibber away, occasionally lending an ear to whatever it is they have to say. 

 

The Chattering Corpse Heap has become something of a tourist attraction recently. 

 

Fixed.


Edited by DoctorCouch, Feb 19 2013 - 07:40 AM.

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#177 Online An/A Blade

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 09:50 AM

Well, the reason I'm skeptical of claims, is because usually when I'm detective, I like to keep a low profile; since if things happen, then I can try to stay in the game longer; like if the Doctor dies early on. If that happened with a claim, I'd be dead rather instantly. =P
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#178 Offline -Toa Lhikevikk-

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 12:19 PM

That's actually a tactic I use quite commonly when i get killed. It's probably the reason I'm alive--if I was killed, my innocence would be confirmed. :P

 

:w:

 

Which leads me to believe that we're dealing with either some very experienced or very inexperienced Mafiosi here. Dumb Mafiosi leave you alive, clever Mafiosi kill you -- but really clever Mafiosi keep you alive so you can't be trusted.


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#179 Offline The Dandy Automaton

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 01:35 PM

Ahhh, a refreshing case of Schrödinger's Mafia, where they're both stupid and intelligent at the same time. That'll make this puzzle an easier one to solve.

 

Clearly the most logical solution is to simply kill everyone in sight and hope that we strike gold. Whittling!


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#180 Offline -Toa Lhikevikk-

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 01:52 PM

Actually, I just thought of something.

 

Lloyd, if he is a villager, is more useful to us dead than alive, because then we know we can trust him as our unofficial leader. The Mafia know this too, otherwise they would have killed him by now.

 

If he is Mafioso, we definitely want him dead. The Mafia definitely want him alive.

 

Ergo, it is in our best interests to kill him, and Lloyd, I'm sure you'll agree because you're a pretty logical sort. But I won't be the first voter, at least not yet. We can use him as a hostage, as leverage against the Mafia somehow. For now.


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#181 Online An/A Blade

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 02:59 PM

^ Due to that, I vote Lloyd. It is rather good logic; and given that he hasn't died yet, it's rather suspicious. let's fix that problem. =P
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#182 Offline Xaeraz

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 03:00 PM

[color=#4b0082;]Yyyyyyyyyeah, let's kill Lloyd! Changing my vote over.[/color]


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#183 Offline Ifgtalrop

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 03:18 PM

Halfway through the voting period, and it seems we have a four way tie, with Xae composing the back.

 

Elemental Ussal: 2

DoctorCouch: 2

Taka Nuvia: 2

Lloyd: 2

Xaerrogant: 1

 

This has been a crazy round of voting so far, who will come up in the lead, and who will get...

B)

Lynched?

 

YEAAAHHHHHHHHhhh... that was so bad.


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#184 Offline Lloyd: the White Wolf

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 04:45 PM

Actually, I don't want to die, and the reason is as illogical as it is simple--I want to survive longer than usual. :P

 

Look at it this way--the Detective isn't dead yet, so clearly I'm not a Mafian. Why? Because I know who he is.

 

After all, I know that Gatanui (alias Squishy) is innocent. If he's still active around here he can confirm that for me. (Why do I not know who anyone else is? Because the Detective spent the first round investigating me, and that's how he knows I'm innocent.

 

That said, I can also confirm the presence of a Joker role in this game. So you're going to want to be careful about indiscriminate lynching, or else you might hand him the game. And I want the village to win.

 

EDIT: I'm also going to not vote until the last second--I don't want to vote for an innocent, but I especially don't want to lynch four people at once.

 

:w:


Edited by Lloyd: the White Wolf, Feb 19 2013 - 04:49 PM.

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#185 Offline Squishyfrog

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 05:02 PM

i am still active

 

just really not very active


Edited by GATANUI IS AWESOME, Feb 19 2013 - 05:03 PM.

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#186 Offline -Toa Lhikevikk-

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 07:39 PM

No wait.

 

NOBODY VOTE LLOYD.

 

I just realized something very... interesting.


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#187 Online Zakaro

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 07:46 PM

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"]I'm just gonna sit here and laugh my ghostly undead haunting giggles as I watch and wait for perhaps someone that is actually happy to converse with me in the afterlife[/font]

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"]Since the other two you've sent aren't much fun at all. [/font]

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"]Oh and I'm happeh to not be worried about who to vote or whether I'm gonna die[/font]

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"]I think death relieves a ton of stress off of ya. Lemme start a study on this..[/font]

[color=rgb(128,0,128);][font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"]Zakaro[/color][/font]


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#188 Offline The Dandy Automaton

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 08:00 PM

Actually, I don't want to die, and the reason is as illogical as it is simple--I want to survive longer than usual. :P

 

LLOYD DOESN'T WANT TO DIE THAT MEANS HE'S A MAFIAN BURN THE WITCH

 

...Actually, I'll just hold my vote on Xaerrogant for a while yet. I shall see who puts forth the most persuasive argument. 


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#189 Offline Voltex Oblige

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 08:14 PM

[color=#008080;]I am going to put my vote in for Elemental Ussal as a temporary placeholder while I decide whether he deserves it or not.[/color]

 

[color=#008080;]-ibrow[/color]


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#190 Offline namcurtsnoC

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 08:16 PM

@Lhikevikk: what did you realize?
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#191 Offline -Toa Lhikevikk-

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 09:12 PM

@Constructman: A interesting thing. :)

 

(and my realization may not even have been accurate anyways but for now nobody vote Lloyd)


Edited by -Toa Lhikevikk-, Feb 19 2013 - 09:13 PM.

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#192 Offline DuctorCoch

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 09:24 PM

I'ma switch my vote to Lloyd, simply so that I might ruin everything.


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#193 Offline Lloyd: the White Wolf

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 09:32 PM

It's times like this I really wish we had a facepalm emote. Why do you want to ruin everything? Even Xaeraz is usually happy with just one hanging.

 

:w:


Edited by Lloyd: the White Wolf, Feb 19 2013 - 09:33 PM.

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#194 Offline Xaeraz

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 09:43 PM

It's times like this I really wish we had a facepalm emote. Why do you want to ruin everything? Even Xaeraz is usually happy with just one hanging.

 

:w:

[color=#4b0082;]Hangings are like fine wine. They must be enjoyed slowly and individually.[/color]

 

[color=#4b0082;]Having more than one hanging at once is more like shotgunning PBR.[/color]


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#195 Offline Voltex Oblige

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 09:55 PM

It's times like this I really wish we had a facepalm emote. Why do you want to ruin everything? Even Xaeraz is usually happy with just one hanging.

 

:w:

[color=#4b0082;]Hangings are like fine wine. They must be enjoyed slowly and individually.[/color]

 

[color=#4b0082;]Having more than one hanging at once is more like shotgunning PBR.[/color]

 

[color=#008080;]This man is smart. The above man is also smart. Let's not go ruining stuff on purpose. I had a blu-ray set for Zakaro, but I don't think Lloyd would appreciate the chocolate death day cake I baked for Elemental Ussal.[/color]

 

[color=#008080;]-ibrow[/color]


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#196 Offline DuctorCoch

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Posted Feb 19 2013 - 10:06 PM

Ofine. I'll switch my vote to Elemental Ussal.


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#197 Offline Krelsin

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Posted Feb 20 2013 - 12:22 AM

@Constructman: A interesting thing. :)

 

(and my realization may not even have been accurate anyways but for now nobody vote Lloyd)

If you're hinting he's a power role, that would be foolish on his part, whether he be mafia or town.

 

Actually, I don't want to die, and the reason is as illogical as it is simple--I want to survive longer than usual. :P

 

Look at it this way--the Detective isn't dead yet, so clearly I'm not a Mafian. Why? Because I know who he is.

 

After all, I know that Gatanui (alias Squishy) is innocent. If he's still active around here he can confirm that for me. (Why do I not know who anyone else is? Because the Detective spent the first round investigating me, and that's how he knows I'm innocent.

 

That said, I can also confirm the presence of a Joker role in this game. So you're going to want to be careful about indiscriminate lynching, or else you might hand him the game. And I want the village to win.

 

EDIT: I'm also going to not vote until the last second--I don't want to vote for an innocent, but I especially don't want to lynch four people at once.

 

:w:

I don't think there'd be a joker not being declared in the first post without the host actually specifying it; that'd be very unfair to the new players.

 

Also, how would you know there's a joker role?

 

Also, if you were really innocent, you probably wouldn't out that Gatanui was innocent, because Gata will now probably promptly die.

 

In fact, before they'd kill Gata, they'd kill you.  So, everyone should vote Lloyd; if he's detective, he'll have to out himself, which helps the town, and if he's doctor, that was a terrible move drawing attention to himself, and I highly doubt he would do so as doctor.

 

If he's an innocent villager, it doesn't matter if he dies, because dying doesn't stop him talking, and confirms Gata's innocence, which means Gata should be healed until a more important clear comes along.

 

If he's mafia, yay, good job team.


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#198 Offline Lloyd: the White Wolf

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Posted Feb 20 2013 - 12:38 AM

C'mon, you're a smart person. Try and figure out why I know there's a Joker role.

 

:w:


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#199 Offline Krelsin

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Posted Feb 20 2013 - 02:16 AM

C'mon, you're a smart person. Try and figure out why I know there's a Joker role.

 

:w:

Detective can't have told you, there's only been 2 nights, 1 of which you have been found innocent, the other which Gata was innocent'd.

 

Otherwise, host has told you, or, you're used to these games having a surprise joker role.

 

Edit:

 

Or you were implying you were the joker, so people would think "oh he's joker, better not lynch him" when really you're actually mafia and there's no actual proof there's a joker role.

 

Edit 2:

 

It was never actually specified in the first post if dead people couldn't vote...can they?


Edited by Krelsin, Feb 20 2013 - 02:21 AM.

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#200 Offline Fairy Paladin

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Posted Feb 20 2013 - 02:38 AM

It was never actually specified in the first post if dead people couldn't vote...can they?

As far as I know dead people can't vote. ^^


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