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How long will they last?

Hero Factory Ninjago Chima years

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#41 Offline Great Being Velika

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Posted May 17 2013 - 02:50 PM

I think that Chima has at least 3 years left, and that HF and Ninjago only have 1 or 2 years left.


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#42 Offline Emotionless

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Posted May 21 2013 - 05:24 PM

[color=#006400;]I doubt Chima will last long. Although I was willing to give it a chance, it's just not speaking to me...[/color]

 

[color=#006400;]As for Ninjago, who doesn't like ninjas who fight mythological creatures while on a path to incredible power? I love Ninjago and I want it to last for years to come.[/color]

 

[color=#006400;]Now, Hero Factory... I just don't know. I thought it would die by winding down, which is what seems to be what's happening now, but HF doesn't seem to quit. It just may last longer than dying Ninjago.[/color]


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#43 Offline slifer3000

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Posted May 21 2013 - 09:48 PM

think about it this way: Bionicle sold perfectly fine from 01-08. In 09, the sales dropped significantly with the Glats. My theory is that the Glats didn't look Bionicle enough, and didn't attract anyone. HF isn't increasing in revenue, by what I have read, and if it hits just one drop, that might be all it takes to kill it off. I am not sure about Bionicle replacing it, although I would like that. 

 

Aanchir, you say that HF's loose storyline could help it replenish its fanbase as some fans out grow it. But There are two reasons why that fails to stand up to Bionicle's complex storyline:

 

1. Anyone who would be interested in a story as cliche and un-wow-ing as HF's wouldn't mind buying plenty of Bionicle sets as well, as they likely wouldn't even care much if they could comprehend the story, assuming they missed earlier years. 

 

2. HF's storyline is without a doubt less attractive to early teens than Bionicle's, and no youngster would have minded buying a Bionicle either. That means that while Bionicle could get 7-18 year olds buying it (i would still be buying bionicle sets if it were still running), HF can only really get 5-10 year olds. While there will be some teens buying it, that number of teens buying HF would not be as large as the number buying Bionicle. 


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#44 Offline ~ShadowBolt~

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Posted May 21 2013 - 10:04 PM

think about it this way: Bionicle sold perfectly fine from 01-08. In 09, the sales dropped significantly with the Glats. My theory is that the Glats didn't look Bionicle enough, and didn't attract anyone. HF isn't increasing in revenue, by what I have read, and if it hits just one drop, that might be all it takes to kill it off. I am not sure about Bionicle replacing it, although I would like that. 

 

Aanchir, you say that HF's loose storyline could help it replenish its fanbase as some fans out grow it. But There are two reasons why that fails to stand up to Bionicle's complex storyline:

 

1. Anyone who would be interested in a story as cliche and un-wow-ing as HF's wouldn't mind buying plenty of Bionicle sets as well, as they likely wouldn't even care much if they could comprehend the story, assuming they missed earlier years. 

 

2. HF's storyline is without a doubt less attractive to early teens than Bionicle's, and no youngster would have minded buying a Bionicle either. That means that while Bionicle could get 7-18 year olds buying it (i would still be buying bionicle sets if it were still running), HF can only really get 5-10 year olds. While there will be some teens buying it, that number of teens buying HF would not be as large as the number buying Bionicle. 

 

I think the allure of Bionicle was that it was mysterious and magical for its time.  Just like Lord of the Rings, Star Trek, Harry Potter, Twilight, and all other brands similar.  They attract their audiences in the same way.  Lego just needs to find a different formula.  That's all. 

 

Creating biomechanical characters and giving them human names takes the mystery out of the equation for me and I think thats one of the area's where Hero Factory fails as well as being too "childish".


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#45 Offline ~garnira returns~

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Posted May 22 2013 - 12:22 AM

think about it this way: Bionicle sold perfectly fine from 01-08. In 09, the sales dropped significantly with the Glats. My theory is that the Glats didn't look Bionicle enough, and didn't attract anyone. HF isn't increasing in revenue, by what I have read, and if it hits just one drop, that might be all it takes to kill it off. I am not sure about Bionicle replacing it, although I would like that. 

 

Aanchir, you say that HF's loose storyline could help it replenish its fanbase as some fans out grow it. But There are two reasons why that fails to stand up to Bionicle's complex storyline:

 

1. Anyone who would be interested in a story as cliche and un-wow-ing as HF's wouldn't mind buying plenty of Bionicle sets as well, as they likely wouldn't even care much if they could comprehend the story, assuming they missed earlier years. 

 

2. HF's storyline is without a doubt less attractive to early teens than Bionicle's, and no youngster would have minded buying a Bionicle either. That means that while Bionicle could get 7-18 year olds buying it (i would still be buying bionicle sets if it were still running), HF can only really get 5-10 year olds. While there will be some teens buying it, that number of teens buying HF would not be as large as the number buying Bionicle. 

I'm with you on this. Lego fails to "amaze" its audience with HF, outside of set design. This really makes me feel unconnected. The story is too dull and unengaging to really get hooked on to it. And where as lego says "it leaves room for fans to enter and leave as they grow through it" , they fail to get a dedicated fanbase, and are depending that every new generation will enjoy the same things their predecessors enjoyed.


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#46 Online Aanchir

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Posted May 22 2013 - 04:13 PM

think about it this way: Bionicle sold perfectly fine from 01-08. In 09, the sales dropped significantly with the Glats. My theory is that the Glats didn't look Bionicle enough, and didn't attract anyone. HF isn't increasing in revenue, by what I have read, and if it hits just one drop, that might be all it takes to kill it off. I am not sure about Bionicle replacing it, although I would like that.

One problem with this theory is that BIONICLE sales were dropping LONG before the Glatorian. As I've mentioned elsewhere, the theme stopped seeing any considerable growth as early as 2005, and sales were surely dropping during many of the subsequent years. Also, if the problems with BIONICLE sales in 2009 could be traced to set design, then the designs would simply be changed to something preferable. Instead, the lack of strong sales in 2009 was because of an overall lack of interest in the theme.

Aanchir, you say that HF's loose storyline could help it replenish its fanbase as some fans out grow it. But There are two reasons why that fails to stand up to Bionicle's complex storyline: 1. Anyone who would be interested in a story as cliche and un-wow-ing as HF's wouldn't mind buying plenty of Bionicle sets as well, as they likely wouldn't even care much if they could comprehend the story, assuming they missed earlier years.

Umm, no, that's ridiculous logic. A person doesn't have to be "wowed" by a story to enjoy it, but they're not going to enjoy a story that makes no sense to them. One reason BIONICLE struggled is because it alienated a lot of potential fans with its in-depth continuity, huge list of esoteric universe rules (Matoran life cycle, Energized Protodermis, etc), massive cast of characters, and regular changes to the status quo.Also, a story with cliché elements is not a bad thing. It can make it harder for a franchise to stand out from similar franchises, but often the reason those story elements became cliché in the first place is because time and time again they were proven to work. There are plenty of TV series and media franchises that did a lot to stand out from other stories people had experienced, and many of them failed just because audiences weren't interested in something that radical and unfamiliar.

2. HF's storyline is without a doubt less attractive to early teens than Bionicle's, and no youngster would have minded buying a Bionicle either. That means that while Bionicle could get 7-18 year olds buying it (i would still be buying bionicle sets if it were still running), HF can only really get 5-10 year olds. While there will be some teens buying it, that number of teens buying HF would not be as large as the number buying Bionicle.

Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions! "Without a doubt less attractive to early teens than BIONICLE's"? Where are you getting that information from? I'm 22 years old and I enjoy Hero Factory's story, even if I feel the TV episodes are pretty weak. I love reading features on Hero Factory in the LEGO Magazines, thoroughly enjoyed the Hero Factory FM podcast from 2010, and have been loving Greg Farshtey's Hero Factory Secret Mission chapter books."No youngster would have minded buying a BIONICLE"? Well, clearly, a lot did, so there goes that argument. "BIONICLE could get 7-18 year olds buying it"? A lot of the people my age who liked BIONICLE as kids lost interest in it long before they turned 18. "HF can only get 5-10-year-olds buying it"? Again, I'm 22, and I am involved in lots of Hero Factory discussions on at least one forum which is for AFOLs only (LEGO fans ages 18 and up). Some of my fellow HS01 editors are likewise older than 18.Meanwhile, it should be noted that younger kids are a more reliable audience for toys in general, so targeting younger kids is not at all a bad thing.

think about it this way: Bionicle sold perfectly fine from 01-08. In 09, the sales dropped significantly with the Glats. My theory is that the Glats didn't look Bionicle enough, and didn't attract anyone. HF isn't increasing in revenue, by what I have read, and if it hits just one drop, that might be all it takes to kill it off. I am not sure about Bionicle replacing it, although I would like that.  Aanchir, you say that HF's loose storyline could help it replenish its fanbase as some fans out grow it. But There are two reasons why that fails to stand up to Bionicle's complex storyline: 1. Anyone who would be interested in a story as cliche and un-wow-ing as HF's wouldn't mind buying plenty of Bionicle sets as well, as they likely wouldn't even care much if they could comprehend the story, assuming they missed earlier years.  2. HF's storyline is without a doubt less attractive to early teens than Bionicle's, and no youngster would have minded buying a Bionicle either. That means that while Bionicle could get 7-18 year olds buying it (i would still be buying bionicle sets if it were still running), HF can only really get 5-10 year olds. While there will be some teens buying it, that number of teens buying HF would not be as large as the number buying Bionicle.

I'm with you on this. Lego fails to "amaze" its audience with HF, outside of set design. This really makes me feel unconnected. The story is too dull and unengaging to really get hooked on to it. And where as lego says "it leaves room for fans to enter and leave as they grow through it" , they fail to get a dedicated fanbase, and are depending that every new generation will enjoy the same things their predecessors enjoyed.

Depending on new generations of fans is really the only way to create an ongoing toyline, because fans are going to grow out of the theme at a regular rate. BIONICLE was not at all immune to this. The dedicated lifelong fans on sites like BZPower were outliers, and as Greg Farshtey never hesitated to remind us, those sorts of fans were never the majority.There is no reason the LEGO Group needs every generation of fans to stay the same as their predecessors to turn a profit. If a generation of fans with different interests emerges, then they can either change the theme to suit that new generation or, if the theme has a lot of baggage from previous story years that makes optimizing it for a new generation impossible, replace the theme entirely. This is what TLG does with most of their themes and it is a fairly reliable business strategy. It would not be a surprise if TLG does this with Hero Factory eventually, though since most Hero Factory story years aren't heavily dependent on previous story years to make sense, it may still be a while.Really, BIONICLE had this problem a lot worse than Hero Factory had because for new fans to fully understand the current story they had to read up on many of the events of previous story years, most of which were not written to appeal to that new audience. Dedicated fans could never have been enough to keep the theme alive if the theme was losing fans faster than it was gaining them, and being a toyline, it needed a constant influx of new fans to prevent this. Eventually it reached this tipping point, and that was when the time came to pull the plug.

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#47 Offline Madara: Mangekyou Master

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Posted May 23 2013 - 03:52 PM

I wish I could make a prediction, but I think it all depends on how well the sets sell with their focus groups. Keeping storylines simple should facilitate that. :/ Unfortunately, Bionicle's universe became almost too rich for new fans. 


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#48 Offline Neelh

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Posted May 23 2013 - 04:03 PM

Ninjago has a long time left in it.

 

Believe me, there's a large fan following that has a possibility of rivalling Bionicle's, if it continues for as long as I expect it to.

 

They already tried to discontinue it and replace it with Chima (which is pretty cool too, but I fear will linger with the other lines that only lasted a few years).


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#49 Offline Rama~Swarm

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Posted Jun 08 2013 - 03:53 AM

[color=#800080;]Hero Factory as a line might not last very long for all I know, but the idea of customizable lego action figures will definitely outlive it. There's just nothing quite like it on the market right now.[/color]


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#50 Offline Damaracx Caratas Xarian

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Posted Jun 08 2013 - 07:22 AM

[color=#ff0000;]Lego Chima.  Pobably on of Lego's biggest gambles.  This is just a hunch that I don't exactly believe, but maybe true.  Lego Chima may have been meant to replace HF and Ninjago.  Maybe.  Just a little hunch.  Though personally I doubt it.[/color]

 

[color=#a9a9a9;]Chima-  To early to say.[/color]

 

[color=#ff0000;]Ninjago- It looks like it'll end soon.[/color]

 

[color=#a9a9a9;]HF- it is already past the three year mark.  It had something like LDD which, may I remind you all no other theme has had.  It did and still does have 'its' parts in LDD (I've only seen LDD due this with Atlantis.).  So it's too early to tell.[/color]


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#51 Offline Rumpofsteelskin

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Posted Jun 16 2013 - 09:50 AM

In terms of ranking, I bet Ninjago will last longest, then Hero Factory, then Chima.


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#52 Offline Ziontyro Metalhead

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Posted Jun 19 2013 - 05:34 PM

I would say it could do very well if the sets were a bit better. They could use better armor(find more ways for us to connect the armor to Bionicle pieces). Also, develop a better story line. Make one of the characters achieve something other than defeating the villian. Come on, LEGO, give the heroes deeper emotion than this.


Edited by Ziontyro Metalhead, Jun 19 2013 - 05:34 PM.

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#53 Online Aanchir

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Posted Jun 20 2013 - 03:54 PM

I would say it could do very well if the sets were a bit better. They could use better armor(find more ways for us to connect the armor to Bionicle pieces). Also, develop a better story line. Make one of the characters achieve something other than defeating the villian. Come on, LEGO, give the heroes deeper emotion than this.

Deeper emotion? You mean like Stormer's deep-seated fears that one of his rookies will end up getting into trouble, or Furno and Rocka's rivalry, or Evo's lack of self-assurance, or Surge's fear that he's defective and may some day end up betraying his duty as a hero?And the Heroes do achieve things: Furno earns his team leader Stormer's respect. Furno frees Stormer from a nanobot infection that was controlling his mind. Rocka and Furno learn to work together even if it means having to compromise. Bulk learns that he can be a tough guy without just being "dumb muscle". Evo learns to trust his instincts. Perhaps most significantly, Furno and Bulk restore the planet of Quatros to health and prevent its destruction by returning the Quaza Witch Doctor extracted to the planet's core.In the books, there are even more achievements to list:
Spoiler
I get that there aren't as many quiet emotional scenes in the Hero Factory TV show as there are in the BIONICLE movies, but that doesn't mean the heroes don't have any internal struggles. And it certainly doesn't mean that the heroes' achievements are limited to locking up villains.As for the Hero Factory sets, they can connect to BIONICLE pieces in several ways (a flick-fire missile from LEGO System is a great connector between Hero Factory shells and Technic pin holes, and moreover Hero Factory and BIONICLE share the ball joint as a central building element), but the ways that they can't are just as much a limitation of the BIONICLE building style as a limitation of Hero Factory's building system. Saying this is a flaw or weakness of the Hero Factory building system is like saying post-2003 BIONICLE armor is flawed because it can't attach to Toa Mata, Toa Nuva, or Bohrok arms and legs. Besides, any limits to compatibility between the two building styles don't really harm the sales strength of Hero Factory very much considering that most BIONICLE sets are over three years old by now and a large number of Hero Factory fans may never have owned them.

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#54 Offline Tanu Toa of Earth

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Posted Jun 21 2013 - 10:49 AM

Chima... as quite a few people said, will probably just fizzle out like any other theme after a few waves. Regardless of how hard LEGO is pushing it (read: wasting money on it), after two or three waves, even smaller kids will sort of get that it just isn't that great. There's barely a plot, the characters are basically no good (In the show, at least), and all of the Speedorz look the same, so the novelty of that gimmick will wear off quite quickly unless LEGO does something drastic with it.

 

Ninjago, on the other hand, stands a chance. It has a plot that's continuous and interesting, but broken into chunks so that you don't have to know EVERYTHING about the storyline to know what's happening. It has Spinjitzu, which is actually a pretty awesome marketing gimmick, compared to a lot of things I've seen even LEGO come up with. It has Ninja with elemental powers, which certainly appeals to younger children. And most importantly, unlike Chima, it has a show that's actually entertaining for a large range of ages in a way that Chima just... doesn't. I can see Ninjago going on for another solid two years or so, provided LEGO takes it in the right direction.

 

As of Hero Factory... I honestly have no idea. After Brain Attack I get the feeling that interest in that theme will slowly and nearly linearly decline, but not very swiftly. The whole theme is rather repetitive, but somehow it manages to have just enough difference between waves, and just enough... awesomeness..., that LEGO can pretty much extend it as long as they want, I think. The question with HF isn't whether it will make lots of money or not, it's whether it would make as much profit as a new theme.


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#55 Offline slifer3000

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Posted Jun 21 2013 - 11:01 AM

Since I'm not good with these quote things, lemme just ghetto quote. 

 

 

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]"Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions! "Without a doubt less attractive to early teens than BIONICLE's"? Where are you getting that information from? I'm 22 years old and I enjoy Hero Factory's story, even if I feel the TV episodes are pretty weak. I love reading features on Hero Factory in the LEGO Magazines, thoroughly enjoyed the Hero Factory FM podcast from 2010, and have been loving Greg Farshtey's [/color]Hero Factory Secret Mission[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]chapter books."[/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]You're telling me that you find the HF story MORE captivating than Bionicle's? If you are, then say that, I've no quarrel with opinions. [/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]My point is that the Bionicle story was definitely more in depth and engaging, not that NOBODY LIKES THE HF STORY like you seemed to assume I meant. But I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it's probably more likely a 12-15 y/o would have preferred Bionicle's story of HF's. [/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]I didn't say kids don't like HF, I said the older kids probably are less captivated by it than they were by Bionicle. [/color]

 

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Also, set-wise, when Bionicle hit the shelves it was an enthralling sensation that only took one year to get to top-sold Lego product, and would hover there until 2008. You can look at the sets from 2001 and the HF sets from 2010 and judge who made a bigger entrance, I personally think Bionicle did, with the diversity of figures from little McDonald's promos to the gaping jaws of the Kane-Ra. [/color]


Edited by slifer3000, Jun 21 2013 - 11:03 AM.

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#56 Online Aanchir

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Posted Jun 21 2013 - 11:37 AM

Since I'm not good with these quote things, lemme just ghetto quote.  [color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]"Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions! "Without a doubt less attractive to early teens than BIONICLE's"? Where are you getting that information from? I'm 22 years old and I enjoy Hero Factory's story, even if I feel the TV episodes are pretty weak. I love reading features on Hero Factory in the LEGO Magazines, thoroughly enjoyed the Hero Factory FM podcast from 2010, and have been loving Greg Farshtey's [/color][/font]Hero Factory Secret Mission[color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]chapter books."[/color][/font] [color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]You're telling me that you find the HF story MORE captivating than Bionicle's? If you are, then say that, I've no quarrel with opinions. [/color][/font][color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]My point is that the Bionicle story was definitely more in depth and engaging, not that NOBODY LIKES THE HF STORY like you seemed to assume I meant. But I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it's probably more likely a 12-15 y/o would have preferred Bionicle's story of HF's. [/color][/font] [color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]I didn't say kids don't like HF, I said the older kids probably are less captivated by it than they were by Bionicle. [/color][/font][color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]Also, set-wise, when Bionicle hit the shelves it was an enthralling sensation that only took one year to get to top-sold Lego product, and would hover there until 2008. You can look at the sets from 2001 and the HF sets from 2010 and judge who made a bigger entrance, I personally think Bionicle did, with the diversity of figures from little McDonald's promos to the gaping jaws of the Kane-Ra. [/color][/font]

No. I said nothing of the sort (the Hero Factory books are easily as good as the BIONICLE books, but as I said, the TV episodes are lacking, and those are the core story medium). But I do find it very entertaining on the whole. Hero Factory doesn't have to compete with a dead theme to earn my respect, just like not every fantasy book has to be better than The Chronicles of Narnia or The Lord of the Rings. And this is especially true when it's telling a very different kind of story by design.Meanwhile, BIONICLE did sell quite well compared to other themes when it was brand-new, but let's not give it more credit than it deserves. LEGO sales as a whole were suffering when BIONICLE first came about. There's a reason why LEGO didn't stick their logo up next to the BIONICLE logo on most BIONICLE products, like they do with all their other themes: BIONICLE was an attempt to create something that would appeal to an audience that considered LEGO childish or boring, and as such the LEGO logo was more of a liability than an asset. The same applied with another theme introduced around that time, Galidor, which yielded considerably different sales results.In 2005, the LEGO Group introduced LEGO City, and it quickly surpassed BIONICLE in terms of sales. Since then it has consistently remained the best-selling LEGO product line, with LEGO Star Wars coming in a close second. Other LEGO themes likewise experienced strong sales as the LEGO Group recovered from the economic slump that had plagued them since the 90s. Meanwhile, BIONICLE sales continued to dwindle more and more as the initial hype wore off (it certainly was not the most popular LEGO product line by 2008, at which point it had gone years without any meaningful brand growth), the original fans grew out of the theme, and the complex continuity became a turn-off for new fans. By the time BIONICLE ended, the LEGO brand was a great asset once again, and as a result Hero Factory now always gets the LEGO logo next to it. The LEGO brand isn't something kids are ashamed of anymore.Less captivating doesn't mean less attractive. Not by a long shot. The kids who had the patience and dedication to digest BIONICLE's lengthy continuity and wealth of world-building probably did get a lot of enjoyment out of it, more than they would out of a less intensive story like Hero Factory's. However, the truth is that there are a lot of buyers who have no interest in devoting their lives to a story so difficult to digest. Some people just want a fun toy with an easy-to-understand story behind it, and maybe some more thorough books and animations to enjoy if that's the kind of thing they're into. This applies just as much to young teens as it does to preteens and younger kids. Not everyone needs to be captivated by a story to enjoy it. Otherwise we wouldn't see teenagers enjoying shows that revel in pure silliness like Spongebob Squarepants, or enjoying video games like the Mario series with only the barest excuse for a story to justify the much more engaging gameplay component.I agree that BIONICLE definitely made a more impressive debut in 2001 as far as sets were concerned than Hero Factory did in 2010. From what I've heard, it sold about as well as BIONICLE sets tended to, but frankly, by 2010, this was no longer nearly as meaningful compared to the more significant sales the LEGO brand as a whole. Subsequent years have helped to correct the more bland set designs of Hero Factory's first year, with wonderful non-traditional villain builds like Raw-Jaw, Jawblade, Thornraxx, XT4, Toxic Reapa, Bruizer, and Dragon Bolt. And of course the new building system introduced in 2011 quickly surpassed BIONICLE's building style in terms of versatility and cohesiveness, especially once sets like Witch Doctor and Thornraxx started to truly explore its potential.And personally, after nine years of BIONICLE, even I appreciated a lighter, less serious story, with just a handful of iconic characters to remember. Doesn't mean I'll never enjoy a story as deep as BIONICLE again. It just means that I'm not limited to enjoying that type of thing. Simpler superhero-type fare has its own sort of lasting appeal.

Edited by Aanchir: Rachira of Time, Jun 21 2013 - 11:42 AM.

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#57 Offline slifer3000

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Posted Jun 21 2013 - 11:56 AM

Huh, Biosector said that Bionicle was the top selling product from 02-07. 


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#58 Online Aanchir

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Posted Jun 21 2013 - 12:55 PM

Huh, Biosector said that Bionicle was the top selling product from 02-07.

I'm definitely not sure where they got that information. LEGO's annual reports tend to disagree with it. Looking at the BIONICLE page, it seems to say that it was TLG's most successful product theme until 2005, which is a lot more believable, and consistent with the annual reports: "The BIONICLE line is still the LEGO Group’s biggest-selling theme. However, sales did not live up to expectations in 2005." Star Wars came in a close second that year, and in later years I believe it, along with LEGO City, later overtook BIONICLE in terms of sales. It's also not hard to imagine that some other themes might have had a better net yield than BIONICLE even if they didn't sell as well, since BIONICLE always had a large upfront investment for new molds and media extensions compared to more traditional LEGO themes.BIONICLE is not mentioned in the 2006 Annual Report, nor does it list what the best-selling lines are, but it mentions increases in demand for lines like LEGO Technic, LEGO Creator, and LEGO City that exceeded expectations. The 2007 annual report is a little more telling: "BIONICLE is still one of the LEGO Group’s best selling product lines, although the line did not show any growth in 2007." So while there's not an obvious decline at that point, it's losing ground to other themes. 2008's annual report doesn't mention BIONICLE or name the most successful product lines, but it says "the classic product lines like LEGO City, LEGO Creator, LEGO Technic and LEGO Star Wars accounted for most of the increased sales," and the 2009 annual report says "In 2009, the classic product lines such as DUPLO, LEGO City, LEGO Creator and LEGO Star Wars were once again the most successful lines". So it seems clear that by 2007 BIONICLE was no longer the single most successful line, and by 2008 many themes were overtaking it.I think this is part of why Hero Factory doesn't get as much attention in the LEGO Group's corporate publications as BIONICLE did in many cases. It's still a big multimedia theme like BIONICLE was, and I believe a similar amount of money is invested in it, but the constraction category in general is no longer as significant to the LEGO Group's overall product portfolio as it once was.

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#59 Offline Snubby

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Posted Jun 21 2013 - 01:20 PM

HF has been going for what, 3 years now? They lack the strong story line that Bionicle had, and Bionicle was going for 10 years...I say they've got another 3-4 years in stock for them. How popular are the sets now, anyway?

 

I don't even have any idea how long Ninjago's been going, but I don't think they'll be around much longer. Maybe 2-3 more years.

 

Chima just started, and already the have a MMORPG. That'll last a while. And the sets are good. So is the story. I predict another 5-6 years. 


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#60 Online Aanchir

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Posted Jun 21 2013 - 01:54 PM

HF has been going for what, 3 years now? They lack the strong story line that Bionicle had, and Bionicle was going for 10 years...I say they've got another 3-4 years in stock for them. How popular are the sets now, anyway? I don't even have any idea how long Ninjago's been going, but I don't think they'll be around much longer. Maybe 2-3 more years. Chima just started, and already the have a MMORPG. That'll last a while. And the sets are good. So is the story. I predict another 5-6 years.

The Hero Factory sets are definitely popular enough to keep going (TLG has started designing sets for next year, and unless interest this year has plummeted that suggests it's still going strong). But it's hard to get a clear idea of sales strength, because like later BIONICLE sets, sales aren't significant enough to the overall LEGO brand to get them mentioned in the Annual Reports. Since the LEGO Group is not a publicly-traded company, they are under no legal obligation to disclose specific sales figures, but every time a LEGO community coordinator has been asked about Hero Factory sales at conventions they have responded positively. That, and what we know of plans for future Hero Factory waves, may be the most we have to go on.Ninjago started in 2011 and was the most successful release for a new theme in company history. Its strong sales continued in 2012. It was originally going to end after a single wave in 2013, but fan reactions have been so strong that the LEGO Group is bringing out new sets and media in 2014. It helps that unlike BIONICLE, it still had a lot of momentum when they decided to end it. I'm not sure what impact its hiatus might have on its sales strength when it returns, though.I think 5-6 years is a long time to expect for Chima, not because I don't think it has that kind of potential, but rather because I can almost guarantee the LEGO Group hasn't planned it for more than three years at this point, just like with Ninjago. Three years is plenty of time for it to lose momentum, and plenty of other decent themes like Exo-Force have had three-year lifespans, so I think that's the most I'd willingly bet on for Chima at this point. If it does well this year and looks like it will continue going strong in 2014, then I might be willing to lengthen my prediction. But it's important to remember that a big upfront investment generally means the LEGO Group is counting on a significant payoff in the short term, not necessarily in the long term. When a theme is visibly GROWING from year to year, that's a much better sign that it has the potential for long-term viability.

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#61 Offline man774

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Posted Jul 18 2013 - 11:18 AM

NInjago: Running out of ideas. Probably going to end within 2 years.

HF: I'd say it's got 5 years left.

Chima: 3 years max, imho


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#62 Offline Lyichir

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Posted Jul 19 2013 - 11:59 AM

NInjago: Running out of ideas. Probably going to end within 2 years.

HF: I'd say it's got 5 years left.

Chima: 3 years max, imho

I think it's hard to say Ninjago's running out of ideas when we haven't even seen next year's sets or story outside of a single teaser image.


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#63 Offline Damaracx Caratas Xarian

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Posted Jul 22 2013 - 05:16 AM

[color=#006400;]I doubt Chima will last long. Although I was willing to give it a chance, it's just not speaking to me...[/color]

 

[color=#006400;]As for Ninjago, who doesn't like ninjas who fight mythological creatures while on a path to incredible power? I love Ninjago and I want it to last for years to come.[/color]

 

[color=#006400;]Now, Hero Factory... I just don't know. I thought it would die by winding down, which is what seems to be what's happening now, but HF doesn't seem to quit. It just may last longer than dying Ninjago.[/color]

[color=#ff0000;]Suddenly; I have mental images of you holding whatever screen you're watching Lego Chima on and singing the Move Along line "SPEAK TO ME!".  XD[/color]


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#64 Offline Guurahk Entertainer

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Posted Jul 24 2013 - 03:44 PM

Ninjago is pretty good, but I don't think the story will be enough to continue for more than 2 years more.

 

Chima... meh... I don't really care, and it's pretty bad if you ask me. I don't see it much future.

 

Hero Factory though seems to have more future. Easy to build, little to no sotryline, pieces are not small, and they don't break easily. All you want in a toy for a 5-10 years old.


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#65 Online Aanchir

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Posted Jul 26 2013 - 11:43 AM

Ninjago is pretty good, but I don't think the story will be enough to continue for more than 2 years more. Chima... meh... I don't really care, and it's pretty bad if you ask me. I don't see it much future. Hero Factory though seems to have more future. Easy to build, little to no sotryline, pieces are not small, and they don't break easily. All you want in a toy for a 5-10 years old.

Hero Factory sets have never been aimed at 5-year-olds. Six years old has always been the minimum recommended age for the smallest sets. This year, the smaller ($9.99) sets are aimed at kids ages 6-12, the medium ($12.99) sets are aimed at ages 7-14, and the large ($20 or higher) sets are aimed at ages 8-16 or 9-16. In other words, the minimum recommended age for the smallest Hero Factory sets is the same as the minimum age for the smallest BIONICLE sets from 2008 onward, and the maximum recommended age for the largest sets is the same as the maximum recommended age for the largest BIONICLE sets (since at least 2006, when the LEGO Group first began marking sets with a maximum recommended age).The only BIONICLE sets to have a higher minimum recommended age than any Hero Factory sets are at higher price points than any Hero Factory set has ever been. These are sets like Axalara T9 (recommended for ages 10-16). The largest Hero Factory set by price point is the Drop Ship set from 2010 ($49.99), which was recommended for ages 9-16. BIONICLE sets at the same price point have had either the same recommended age range or a lower minimum recommended age.All in all, Hero Factory sets aren't aimed at a much younger audience than BIONICLE sets at all. With that said, a Hero Factory set designed with six-year-olds in mind will be larger and more complex than any BIONICLE set designed with six-year-olds in mind. And the maximum recommended age now varies with the size of the set, as opposed to in BIONICLE where the LEGO Group put a recommended age cap of 16 even on the smallest sets. This seems to be a change in marketing strategy more than a change in complexity, because anyone can tell you that a $13 Hero Factory set is more complex than any BIONICLE Stars, Agori, or Matoran set.

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#66 Offline Guurahk Entertainer

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Posted Jul 26 2013 - 01:38 PM

 

Ninjago is pretty good, but I don't think the story will be enough to continue for more than 2 years more. Chima... meh... I don't really care, and it's pretty bad if you ask me. I don't see it much future. Hero Factory though seems to have more future. Easy to build, little to no sotryline, pieces are not small, and they don't break easily. All you want in a toy for a 5-10 years old.

Hero Factory sets have never been aimed at 5-year-olds. Six years old has always been the minimum recommended age for the smallest sets. This year, the smaller ($9.99) sets are aimed at kids ages 6-12, the medium ($12.99) sets are aimed at ages 7-14, and the large ($20 or higher) sets are aimed at ages 8-16 or 9-16. In other words, the minimum recommended age for the smallest Hero Factory sets is the same as the minimum age for the smallest BIONICLE sets from 2008 onward, and the maximum recommended age for the largest sets is the same as the maximum recommended age for the largest BIONICLE sets (since at least 2006, when the LEGO Group first began marking sets with a maximum recommended age).The only BIONICLE sets to have a higher minimum recommended age than any Hero Factory sets are at higher price points than any Hero Factory set has ever been. These are sets like Axalara T9 (recommended for ages 10-16). The largest Hero Factory set by price point is the Drop Ship set from 2010 ($49.99), which was recommended for ages 9-16. BIONICLE sets at the same price point have had either the same recommended age range or a lower minimum recommended age.All in all, Hero Factory sets aren't aimed at a much younger audience than BIONICLE sets at all. With that said, a Hero Factory set designed with six-year-olds in mind will be larger and more complex than any BIONICLE set designed with six-year-olds in mind. And the maximum recommended age now varies with the size of the set, as opposed to in BIONICLE where the LEGO Group put a recommended age cap of 16 even on the smallest sets. This seems to be a change in marketing strategy more than a change in complexity, because anyone can tell you that a $13 Hero Factory set is more complex than any BIONICLE Stars, Agori, or Matoran set.

 

 

Well my mistake then. Still, though the pieces are more, the complexity is not too high (leaving the glorified Agori- I mean "Stars" aside. :P)


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#67 Offline boston48

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Posted Jul 26 2013 - 01:40 PM

I think they definitely have been selling well and can last as long as they are innovative. Perhaps 10 years or so. It depends on their other formats too. 


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#68 Online Aanchir

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Posted Jul 26 2013 - 04:37 PM

Ninjago is pretty good, but I don't think the story will be enough to continue for more than 2 years more. Chima... meh... I don't really care, and it's pretty bad if you ask me. I don't see it much future. Hero Factory though seems to have more future. Easy to build, little to no sotryline, pieces are not small, and they don't break easily. All you want in a toy for a 5-10 years old.

Hero Factory sets have never been aimed at 5-year-olds. Six years old has always been the minimum recommended age for the smallest sets. This year, the smaller ($9.99) sets are aimed at kids ages 6-12, the medium ($12.99) sets are aimed at ages 7-14, and the large ($20 or higher) sets are aimed at ages 8-16 or 9-16. In other words, the minimum recommended age for the smallest Hero Factory sets is the same as the minimum age for the smallest BIONICLE sets from 2008 onward, and the maximum recommended age for the largest sets is the same as the maximum recommended age for the largest BIONICLE sets (since at least 2006, when the LEGO Group first began marking sets with a maximum recommended age).The only BIONICLE sets to have a higher minimum recommended age than any Hero Factory sets are at higher price points than any Hero Factory set has ever been. These are sets like Axalara T9 (recommended for ages 10-16). The largest Hero Factory set by price point is the Drop Ship set from 2010 ($49.99), which was recommended for ages 9-16. BIONICLE sets at the same price point have had either the same recommended age range or a lower minimum recommended age.All in all, Hero Factory sets aren't aimed at a much younger audience than BIONICLE sets at all. With that said, a Hero Factory set designed with six-year-olds in mind will be larger and more complex than any BIONICLE set designed with six-year-olds in mind. And the maximum recommended age now varies with the size of the set, as opposed to in BIONICLE where the LEGO Group put a recommended age cap of 16 even on the smallest sets. This seems to be a change in marketing strategy more than a change in complexity, because anyone can tell you that a $13 Hero Factory set is more complex than any BIONICLE Stars, Agori, or Matoran set.

 Well my mistake then. Still, though the pieces are more, the complexity is not too high (leaving the glorified Agori- I mean "Stars" aside. :P)

It really depends how you define "complexity". The Hero Factory building system is in some respects a lot more intuitive than BIONICLE building, in that shells and beams are made to be more or less interchangeable with one another instead of having such specialized functions. But most Hero Factory sets today are still easily as complex as many BIONICLE canister sets, and far more complex than the small BIONICLE sets like Matoran and Agori.IF you define complexity according to things like gear functions, then a lot of BIONICLE sets would easily come out on top, but then again some of the Brain Attack villains this year are even more complex on that level than the BIONICLE canister sets that lack gear functions. Bruizer has a swinging arm function, Dragon Bolt has a flapping wings function, and Scarox has a stabbing function.Building a BIONICLE figure does often require more pins and axles than a Hero Factory figure, but then again an Erector set requires more screws and bolts than a BIONICLE figure. The process of assembling a model is thus more complex, but I wouldn't say that makes the finished model more complex, at least not in any way that's particularly desirable.

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#69 Offline Toa Nekar

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Posted Jul 30 2013 - 04:35 PM

If anybody has ever heard of ThunderCats then you will see the similarities between it and Chima. Other than that, you can't really tell anything about the storyline (besides good Vs bad) unless you watch the show. I would give it another 2 or so years.Hero factory on the other hand, is very successful towards te younger audience because of the general Punch-Bad-Guy-In-Face theme. But like lots of people have already said, the superhero thing can only go so far. Also, no collectables :( I would give it another 3-4 years before it gets weird and then gets discontinued. If they continued bionicle, I agree with Wasp, thu should definitely adapt it to newer peices.I don't even know about Ninjago
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#70 Offline MrPerson

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Posted Jul 30 2013 - 06:41 PM

Thats a very good question. But bionicle was very famous. I mean Ive newly heard of Chima. Ninjago, (personally I hate ninjago), on the other hand lasted for a long time already and even has its own tv show


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