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MU Domes -- Theories & Map


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#41 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 21 2013 - 07:05 PM

Yeah, school can do that to people, heh.

 

BTW, I had a third point in favor of the SC-in-chest theory I was trying to remember but forgot. Did recall it now.

 

That is that my "fragile like an eggshell" point could actually apply to my portrayal of the pelvis too. Not entirely since the two side waist pistons connect to a stronger area around it, but still, perhaps to be realistic, anything in the pelvis should be even smaller. Because it has to support the weight (artificial grav notwithstanding) of the whole upper body. So yeah, more evidence that at least there's no clear winner between the two options. :|

 

 

Also, I noticed on the Stelt page, this quote:

 

"I know Stelt. A Nui-Rama doesn't buzz on the Tren Krom Peninsula without you scum hearing it."— Makuta Miserix

Now he's obviously not being literal -- I'm not sure exactly what he means but I get the impression it means they're kind of gossipy. But still, it associates Stelt closely with the TK peninsula, even though on my map I moved it quite far away to the north. Mayhaps I should rethink that. :shrugs: (It's another thing I think I won't mention either way in my story.)


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#42 Offline DarkLordBane154

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Posted Mar 21 2013 - 08:10 PM

I'm just gonna number my responses to your points since I'm not really good at using the whole quoting system on this site.

 

1) I honestly wouldn't read too much into the images of the great spirit robot because as we have easily seen between the various artist styles and particularly with the artist during 06-08, there can be large discrepancies in the artwork.  I would most go based on the GCI images of the robot and that one concept piece that you used for your map, since several people on a team worked to design how it looked, and not just one artist.

 

2) On the note of Greg accidentally cannonizing that the SC was in the pelvis doesn't make sense to me.  We all know that Greg has made errors in his books before which he came onto this site to clarify.  Unfortunately in the case of the Toa of Plant Life though for some reason he had to stick with them being male since he had a typo in a book.  My point is though, if he accidentally cannonized something, that shows that he didn't mean to, and his intent is what we should take into consideration, the line of thought behind it.

 

3) As for the legs, yeah I know, it's something that's been nagging me.  I made this map long before we had the really nice easy to see robot from Faber, and so I thought that there was more room in the hips for a dome that could contain those four islands.  I've considered making the hip really only a junction where the tunnels going through the stomach tubes of the robot split off to go down each leg, but of course this would require a lot of work in photoshop to correct it, and it's not really something that I want to do right now.

 

4) And once again with the chest dome, yeah it's something that's been nagging me.  My first attempt at a map I tried to make each island and continent in a dome, but I was nowhere near as successful as you and it looked like a garbled mess.  Trying to put the SC in it's own dome really doesn't work because of the location of the NC and especially the pan handle that juts out from it.  If I shrink down the SC then it might work, but at this point I kinda like having all the extra ocean space that is provided by having one whole dome, plus I'm not really too worried about structural integrity and the physics of it because I figure the GBs could find a way to make it work.  I mean the domes probably aren't that tall compared to the rest of the robot, so they probably don't comprise the structure much.  Phones and a lot of other things are hollow on the inside but they still manage to stay intact, so not something I've thought about much, you do have a point though.

 

5) I don't understand what you're saying about Zakaz, it's supposed to be near the throat which is Karzanhi to keep people from getting to the realm, this is something that Greg strongly hinted at in the old answers topic when people asked about it.  He basically answered something along the line of, Zakaz was made so hostile for the purpose of keeping things away from that region, which makes sense to me.  But I also know that Spiriah supposedly messed up and didn't mean to make the Skakdi so hostile and destroy Zakaz, so I don't know...

But also with Pridak's quote, I wouldn't think too much into it, he could have just said that because Xia is one of the best know islands, he could have said the northern continent too.

 

6) Yeah about the amount of area allocated between the domes and the edge of the robot shell, I know.  That's another thing that's been nagging me but if I added more room or shrunk the domes a bit it would mess up the resolution of everything.  Also actually, you know those tubes that run along the robot's shoulders, that would essentially fulfill the same role as the trapezius muscle, those actually have a gap between them and the robot's chest, so that would actually cut down even more on that area, so if I overlay the robot's exterior over the domes, part of the NC and Xia are actually not inside the robot.  This is a bigger pain in the rear end to deal with though because I would need to reconfigure most of the central dome.

 

7) As for the islands in the hands, this is something that I considered and originally had them in the forearm as well, but looked at the official map, you'll notice that Tren Krom's island is more to the right of the other islands in the chain so that it doesn't line up with them.  I always thought this was a way of showing that it was in the hand, and that in this image the hand was sorta curled in towards the body.  Plus it would make sense why his island was never found since it was so much further away from the next to last island in the chain, the domes for the hands should definitely be smaller thought to allow more room.

 

8) On Karzahni, I thought that Greg had stated that it was definitely in the neck.  Yeah I know that it was states to have a peninsula jutting out into the Metru Nui dome, and I originally did have it like that, but it got cut out when I changed the domes, so that's probably something that I could easily change in a matter of minute by just rotating the layer a bit.  My one problem, is that the top point of the island isn't centered and is off to the left, so I would have to rotate it, but that's not that big of a deal if it's the only way it works.

 

9) On ignoring the canon details.  The way I always think about it, is that Greg always said he thinks in words and not pictures, so we can move things around a bit to make more sense of his words, and when you have an entire team of people working on this project there are bound to be discrepancies, so I don't really view it as ignoring cannon facts, but more of just trying to sort everything out and make the most sense of all the information that we have.

 

10) I'm not sure where, but I could have sworn that Greg has said that KD is in the robot's chest.  Honestly, I really would count the official map as the least cannon, as backwards thinking as that sounds.  We have so many better pieces of art that seem to do a better job.  I also made a threat with an entire theory about this a long time ago.

 

 

http://s278.photobuc...html?sort=6&o=1

 

Basically the theory was that the codrex would sometimes need to blow off energy, which it did by shooting straight through the robot.  The energy would go straight up and through Voya Nui and mount valmai, which is why it's there, and then the hole that we see the Mask of Life come out of.  When the robot crashed a massive burst of energy was expelled and it blasted the entire region of Voya Nui out of the hole which was opened, which explains why the surface of Voya Nui managed to not get very destroyed, and why Voya Nui itself rocketed out of the robot.

 

Basically though, this is further evidence to support the position of the continent, although your theory works too.  Also I would like to point out that we already know that the size of Voya Nui on the official map is way too big, so right there off the bat we know that there are inaccuracies about the map.  My idea is that when that map was made, the SC was intended to be in the gut region of the robot, but it hadn't been planned that that region would be hollow at this point.


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#43 Offline Gengar

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Posted Mar 21 2013 - 09:07 PM

You said that they made Voya Nui too large by on your map no offence by it is too small. Still, I can see what you're saying, and that is a very interesting theory.
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#44 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 21 2013 - 09:12 PM

I mean the domes probably aren't that tall compared to the rest of the robot, so they probably don't comprise the structure much.  Phones and a lot of other things are hollow on the inside but they still manage to stay intact, so not something I've thought about much, you do have a point though.

It's the width I was mainly referring to. A phone isn't really a good example -- it's a small plastic thing, and chances are if you punch one, stomp on one, etc. they will be smashed. And, I don't go around taking them apart or anything but I think they usually have some supports intruding inwards. Anywho, not to read too much into it. :P

 

I don't understand what you're saying about Zakaz, it's supposed to be near the throat which is Karzanhi to keep people from getting to the realm, this is something that Greg strongly hinted at in the old answers topic when people asked about it.  He basically answered something along the line of, Zakaz was made so hostile for the purpose of keeping things away from that region, which makes sense to me.  But I also know that Spiriah supposedly messed up and didn't mean to make the Skakdi so hostile and destroy Zakaz, so I don't know...

 

But also with Pridak's quote, I wouldn't think too much into it, he could have just said that because Xia is one of the best know islands, he could have said the northern continent too.

Hm... I certainly don't recall that. I thought it was purely an accident. After all, Spiriah was basically exiled for it. It may have retconned... Let's go over the BS01 page though to see if it's mentioned.......

 

The start:

 

Zakaz was a peaceful island until an allegedly renegade Makuta, Spiriah, appeared on the island. He saw potential in the Skakdi to make great warriors. Spiriah started to train the species in how to fight and defend themselves, as well as conduct experiments on them that gave them unnatural powers.

Maybe this is the part Greg meant? Since it's so close to Karzahni, and he was a tyrant (or at least they knew he wasn't sending people home fixed), maybe they feared he might invade the Skakdi. But I always thought this was purely from selfish motives -- the Brotherhood wanted warriors for its own purposes.

 

Running with the idea though -- Xia is a weapons factory and the Skakdi were peaceful. I'd say that's reason enough to start improving their defense without them necessarily being the closest. If Karzahni were to try to make trouble, they'd likely avoid Xia and go for the next closest. So, not sure what to make of that.

 

I don't think we can disregard Pridak's statement. Yes, he owned Xia, but not the Southern Islands. If he's going to be imprecise, why not say "to the Southern Continent"? The idea that he misses Zakaz for any reason in the statement is just a "patch" (my term for an evidenceless idea that serves only to make a less evidenced idea seem to fit with evidence against it), so doesn't belong in a theory. We have to use the evidence we have as it is.

 

But yeah, still not sure what to make of that. Reading the rest of the page I see nothing on it. At the very least, it is near it, whether right next to it or as in my or Greg's maps.

 

On Karzahni, I thought that Greg had stated that it was definitely in the neck.

Yes, but to be clear, it depends on how you define neck. It's impossible for it to be in the part that bends with respect to Metru Nui. So in that sense of the word I say it's not in the neck, but in the broadest sense it is. It's in the spherical joint connecting the neck to the head (in my interpretation).

 

So in other words, just because we know it's in the neck doesn't give us license to ignore (for a theory anyways) Greg's clarifying details about where in the neck it has to be, and assume that anywhere is fine.

 

 

 

I'm not sure where, but I could have sworn that Greg has said that KD is in the robot's chest.

Say what now? (I assume you mean KN; Karda Nui.) That would certainly settle things, why didn't you bring it up before? :P I don't recall that (but then I rarely recall anything so yeah). We'll have to search for this. I'll try (via google cache) later if I find time.

 

 

 

I recall that theory. I'm out of time to say more now though. Later. :)


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#45 Offline slifer3000

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Posted Mar 21 2013 - 09:58 PM

Final statement as for the domes:

So If I am in Metru Nui and just like 'yo I wanna get a boat and sail' and just sailed west, I would hit a huge wall? The inside of the MU's head right?


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Knock Knock

 

Who's there

 

Hoff

 

Hoff who

 

no its Onepu 

 

 

 


#46 Offline Gengar

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Posted Mar 21 2013 - 10:12 PM

I feel too lazy/tired to scroll through all these posts but from what I remember you can somehow pass through the domes and they are there to keep them held up in the MU. Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm pretty sure I am.
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#47 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 21 2013 - 10:51 PM

Basically the theory was that the codrex would sometimes need to blow off energy, which it did by shooting straight through the robot.  The energy would go straight up and through Voya Nui and mount valmai, which is why it's there, and then the hole that we see the Mask of Life come out of.  When the robot crashed a massive burst of energy was expelled and it blasted the entire region of Voya Nui out of the hole which was opened, which explains why the surface of Voya Nui managed to not get very destroyed, and why Voya Nui itself rocketed out of the robot.

So you're thinking that VN actually came out through that port? The problem with that is that that special staff sealed up the hole, prior to the Ignika being sent out. You could get around this by saying the port itself was closed at the time and damaged.

 

It's true that a massive burst of energy was expelled in the Great Cataclysm as you say. And I do remember this theory and it's a good one, but on the other hand, maybe having a power core blowing away energy for no constructive purpose wouldn't be too smart. Still, it could be just a contingency in case of an overload, and in general any contingency theory with the GBs is probably true lol.

 

Now you've got me really curious about this because it's just occurred to me that if VN blasted through the closed port (assuming it was big enough to let a tiny island through, not just a mask), it would go a long, long way toward explaining how VN wasn't just smashed to pieces against the ceiling. A door is usually the weakest point in any barrier, even if closed and locked, as has been seen from the middle ages with castle gates to modern police going for the door first if they must break in a house. This theory would really help my story now that I think about it, although I still think I'll leave it vague and appeal instead to the Ignika making sure it was unusually strong at the time. :shrugs:

 

 

BTW, the image you linked me to there makes me wonder -- did Greg ever actually say KN is larger than the continent? I remember he said it was huge. We could make another argument for the chest theory, based on height (front to back, that is, when laying on his back) instead of width, since there's even less room to work with. And of course, based on width, KN could not be much larger than the continent in the pelvis.

 

Actually IMO your image there probably has it too large anyways.

 

 

You said that they made Voya Nui too large by on your map no offence by it is too small. Still, I can see what you're saying, and that is a very interesting theory.

Whose map are you referring to? DLB's? It's actually still too large in the link reffed above in this post. It's pretty simple to imagine based on volume and the like that a hole anywhere near big enough to see more than a dot on a map would fill KN up in just a few months to years. VN is apparently just a tiny islet (probably why it only had one small village on it). Width-wise, anyways.

 

 

Final statement as for the domes:

So If I am in Metru Nui and just like 'yo I wanna get a boat and sail' and just sailed west, I would hit a huge wall? The inside of the MU's head right?

Correct. They call it the Great Barrier. :)

 

I feel too lazy/tired to scroll through all these posts but from what I remember you can somehow pass through the domes and they are there to keep them held up in the MU. Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm pretty sure I am.

The only places to pass through are where there are tunnels through the barrier.

 

For Metru Nui, we know of several. We know there's the Karzahni tunnel, due south, and one or more tunnels also leading south but by passing Karzahni.

 

There is the upward land route from Mangaia to the surface (above the Metru Nui dome). And there were (briefly) two land routes that broke open to up there thanks to the Great Cataclysm. The one that had a river was sealed. I forget what happened to the other if anything.

 

 

Edit: While it's on my mind, I'm curious if anyone has any specific theories about which direction the Tren Krom River flows and if it literally connects to both coasts? Or did Greg ever explain it? On the map, as far as I can tell, it's impossible to tell.

 

I said in my story draft that it started in mountains to the west and flowed east, with a branch at one point also heading west, but requiring canal locks to get around some waterfalls. But this is just my interpretation, and if anyone knows differently or has a better idea might as well ask. :)


Edited by bonesiii, Mar 21 2013 - 10:56 PM.

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#48 Offline DarkLordBane154

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Posted Mar 22 2013 - 12:12 AM

Basically the theory was that the codrex would sometimes need to blow off energy, which it did by shooting straight through the robot.  The energy would go straight up and through Voya Nui and mount valmai, which is why it's there, and then the hole that we see the Mask of Life come out of.  When the robot crashed a massive burst of energy was expelled and it blasted the entire region of Voya Nui out of the hole which was opened, which explains why the surface of Voya Nui managed to not get very destroyed, and why Voya Nui itself rocketed out of the robot.

So you're thinking that VN actually came out through that port? The problem with that is that that special staff sealed up the hole, prior to the Ignika being sent out. You could get around this by saying the port itself was closed at the time and damaged.

 

It's true that a massive burst of energy was expelled in the Great Cataclysm as you say. And I do remember this theory and it's a good one, but on the other hand, maybe having a power core blowing away energy for no constructive purpose wouldn't be too smart. Still, it could be just a contingency in case of an overload, and in general any contingency theory with the GBs is probably true lol.

 

Now you've got me really curious about this because it's just occurred to me that if VN blasted through the closed port (assuming it was big enough to let a tiny island through, not just a mask), it would go a long, long way toward explaining how VN wasn't just smashed to pieces against the ceiling. A door is usually the weakest point in any barrier, even if closed and locked, as has been seen from the middle ages with castle gates to modern police going for the door first if they must break in a house. This theory would really help my story now that I think about it, although I still think I'll leave it vague and appeal instead to the Ignika making sure it was unusually strong at the time. :shrugs:

The way I imagined it, the hatch may have been partway opened and then Voya Nui and the blast hit it to that it destroyed part of it, but not the entire thing, that way we have minimal damage to Voya Nui, but also the broken part that needs to be fixed by the staff of Artakha.

BTW, the image you linked me to there makes me wonder -- did Greg ever actually say KN is larger than the continent? I remember he said it was huge. We could make another argument for the chest theory, based on height (front to back, that is, when laying on his back) instead of width, since there's even less room to work with. And of course, based on width, KN could not be much larger than the continent in the pelvis.

 

Actually IMO your image there probably has it too large anyways.

Yeah, that image I made a few years ago and at the time I had thought Greg said that it was bigger than the SC.  You can also see at the time that I had the SC in its own dome.  But yeah, I changed it so that Karda Nui's dome is about the same size as the SC so it fits nicely under it without needing extra room.

You said that they made Voya Nui too large by on your map no offence by it is too small. Still, I can see what you're saying, and that is a very interesting theory.

Whose map are you referring to? DLB's? It's actually still too large in the link reffed above in this post. It's pretty simple to imagine based on volume and the like that a hole anywhere near big enough to see more than a dot on a map would fill KN up in just a few months to years. VN is apparently just a tiny islet (probably why it only had one small village on it). Width-wise, anyways.

Yup, again, older image, my new one doesn't even have Voya Nui on the map because it blends in with the surrounding geography, but on the ocean layer where it is floating with Mata Nui, I have it about the size of the Voya Nui on Faber's concept map, so it's even smaller than Metru Nui. 

Edit: While it's on my mind, I'm curious if anyone has any specific theories about which direction the Tren Krom River flows and if it literally connects to both coasts? Or did Greg ever explain it? On the map, as far as I can tell, it's impossible to tell.

 

I said in my story draft that it started in mountains to the west and flowed east, with a branch at one point also heading west, but requiring canal locks to get around some waterfalls. But this is just my interpretation, and if anyone knows differently or has a better idea might as well ask. :)

I was actually JUST thinking about this the other day!  And the conclusion that I came to is this:http://wikitravel.or...apeCodTowns.jpg

I think of it as more of a canal like the one that separate's Cape Cod from the rest of the state.  It's really not that wide across or deep, but there is not really a discernible current on the surface and boats can travel either way on it.

I imagine it being the same way for the Tren Krom river, which would actually make it an extremely efficient option of travel for the Matoran if they could sail both ways on it to trade across the continent.  It might have slight currents going in opposite directions splitting down the center of the continent or something like that, but I think it would be cool that way...


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#49 Offline bohrokmaster

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Posted Mar 22 2013 - 06:26 AM

I know that the Mata Nui robot has 'another world' inside of his body but he also exists as a mind and spirit. Could you help me understand why he was created as a living spirit and what purpose does he have? (I thought the great beings made him first as a spirit and built him a massive body to house and carry their whole MU)


Edited by bohrokmaster, Mar 22 2013 - 06:29 AM.

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#50 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 23 2013 - 01:38 AM

I know that the Mata Nui robot has 'another world' inside of his body but he also exists as a mind and spirit. Could you help me understand why he was created as a living spirit and what purpose does he have? (I thought the great beings made him first as a spirit and built him a massive body to house and carry their whole MU)

I think (but I'm not sure) that it's because they intended him to leave the giant robot he started in and take over a third robot they would make later (but instead he took over the prototype), giving his to Makuta, and they'd work together to reform SM. So being a spirit was the best way to enable him to leave that body.

 

I'm not really sure which they made first, offhand (I'm not dealing with it for my story). I know the robot wasn't under his control until the same year as the Shattering when Tren Krom was removed from Karda Nui and it powered up.

 

Also, not really sure he exists as a mobile spirit on his own. Makuta had to store him in the Mask of Life, and he explained at the very end that he didn't die because he was drawn back to the Mask of Life. That would seem to imply that while he might be able to survive independantly for a short time (like Makuta) he does normally need a body to survive. Personally I see him as a mind that exists as software in a computer network so vast and advanced that it is at least equivalent to a brain, if not beyond it, rather than a spirit per se (in the normal sense of the word anyways). Then the Ignika was used to take him out (and I theorize that was always the plan, so Makuta was tricked into doing what he was supposed to do even then).


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#51 Offline bohrokmaster

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Posted Mar 23 2013 - 08:05 AM

oh okay. So he was created as a 'special mind'?  a computer software or a special system which helps maintain the MU. Maintaining it inside his robot body with 'light power'. Keeping the matoran universe safe from keeping the 'light' on? or from having the 'daylight' illusion switched off?


Edited by bohrokmaster, Mar 23 2013 - 08:43 AM.

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#52 Offline DuplexBeGreat

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Posted Mar 23 2013 - 10:30 AM

Sort of like Jane from the Ender's Game series, I think.
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HYPE TRAIN IS PICKING UP SPEED
ALL HAIL THE HYPE

#53 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 23 2013 - 06:12 PM

oh okay. So he was created as a 'special mind'?  a computer software or a special system which helps maintain the MU. Maintaining it inside his robot body with 'light power'. Keeping the matoran universe safe from keeping the 'light' on? or from having the 'daylight' illusion switched off?

Sounds about right, yeah.

 

 

 

 

BTW, I tried to find a Greg quote via google cache of whether Karda Nui is in the chest or not, but no luck. As far as I could find from the search terms I used (which was quite a lot), he never did say.

 

I also noticed that oddly Greg says we already know why Voya Nui rocketed upward, rejecting DLB's theory about 'blowing off steam' as it were. He seems to think the Great Cataclysm is enough of an explanation, which has left me thoroughly confused. While that explains what started the event, that is of no help in explaining how it happened. There's nothing on BS01 I could find to explain it either. After all, the rest of the lands didn't do anything of the sort. Any thoughts?

 

A few other ideas I thought of are that we might be taking "rocketed" too metaphorically -- maybe the volcano or something "fired the wrong way" and it literally rocketed, or maybe Greg means that the blowing-off-steam idea is actually already confirmed but just as a one-off event. Maybe the energy storms interfered momentarily with the inertial dampener field and VN actually "bounced" up from the impact (presumably with the Ignika making it and its people much more durable, which IMO is necessary anyways for any theory, although the "open port" theory might make it not needed if the timing was just right).

 

Thoughts?


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#54 Offline fishers64

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Posted Mar 24 2013 - 05:55 AM

After Greg hunting, I can't find an definitive answer either. :( I didn't find anything that ruled this map as noncanon (inconsistent evidence), but I didn't find anything to shoot down the points everyone else brought up either (for absolute certain).  

2. Are the Northern Continent and the Southern Continent in separate domes?2) Probably

 So it could be that the chest/pelvis area is split how you have it here. I do agree that tube supports going up to the ceiling would be noticeable by the robot's inhabitants, and as such probably don't exist. Another thing that occurred to me is that the chest could be split diagonally between one continent and another, but why would that be? And even if that was done, moving the Southern Continent up to the chest, Karda Nui still wouldn't be in the same location as a human heart. I found multiple sources confirming that the Northern Continent is north of the Southern Continent, and that Karda Nui is beneath the SC. So IMO, placing KN in the chest to honor a poetic reference that doesn't exist even if you put it there is...I just don't see it. Canonically.  I even found answers confirming that Voya Nui broke off the SC and floated north. If the SC was in the chest, it would seem to me that the Mata Nui residents might have seen it offshore. The robot is huge, but not that huge.  The other thing I found was a Greg answer based on The Legend Reborn that could indicate that the "tube" in-between the pelvis and the chest was something else:  

Greg, I just saw a (Polish) clip of the first three minutes of The Legend Reborn. I know you haven’t seen the movie, so I’ll try to describe the scene: It shows the island of Mata Nui, the way we saw it in 2001 (not destroyed by Bohrok). The island cracks apart, and the Mata Nui robot emerges, perfectly enclosed by the atmosphere (top half is not sticking out of the sky). It zooms in to the approximate location of Karda-Nui on the robot and shows what could be the Codrex, it’s a circular chamber with an electrical current running down the center. There are Matoran shown in this area. Then the robot’s eyes turn red. The scene switches back to the "Codrex", where red cylinders decend from the ceiling and trap the Matoran. The Ignika is then ejected out of the robot, where it is shown to leave a planet with land, travel into a different galaxy entirely, and enter the now-well-known Bara Magna system, in the shape of the Three Virtues symbol, with the blue crater-covered moon. and the green moon. Can we consider this whole scene non-canon? 1) It’s not non-canon, it’s simply artistic license at work. And don’t jump to conclusions that it is showing the Codrex, it never states that’s where it is. There are a lot of places in the MU you have never seen before, and this is one of them.

 This answer implies that the SC is not in the tube area. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the center tube between the chest and pelvis should have a question mark over it.  On the Barraki:

3) BS01 describes Pridak as once ruling over said island chain, yet comic 6 of 2007 has him saying "once we ruled from Xia to the southern islands". Does ‘southern islands’ in this context refer to the southernmost islands (north of the Southern Continent) or to the very southernmost lands (Artidax & its island chain?)  3) It refers to the islands south of the mainland, but not necessarily Artidax, which offered no real reason to rule it -- it had no inhabitants at the time or any resources of worth

 Not sure Carapar's territory would be as far south as you have it here.  Homework done. :P Anyway, I do have a couple nitpicks on the map. First, is that Karzanhi and Metru Nui seem too small. Metru Nui I can blame on the size of the map, but Karzanhi I think should be a little bigger. Second, I would like to see the evidence that Mata Nui can bend his head. That neck doesn't look very flexible to me.  Also, what is non-canon on the map (as warned by the conspicuous pink text)? Just your theories, or is there a slew of more inaccuracies that you aren't telling us about? :)

Edited by fishers64, Mar 24 2013 - 05:57 AM.

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#55 Offline Skello: Toa of Pumpkins

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Posted Mar 24 2013 - 04:23 PM

If the SC was in the chest, it would seem to me that the Mata Nui residents might have seen it offshore. The robot is huge, but not that huge

 

Actually, the robot IS that huge. It is just as tall as Earth is wide, on which you can't even see Russia if you're standing on Alaska.

 

To be honest, I don't see why Mata Nui's chest can't look like this. Nobody said the domes were all at the same height, and as Mata Nui controls the gravity in his own body, the tunnel that connects the domes would be sailable. The Matoran might notice the sudden change in direction, but they're probably used to that kind of thing by now.

 

Also, the island of Mata Nui is approximately the size of the robot's head, and the island is exactly 7.5 times the size of Metru Nui. IMO, it's perfectly logical to assume that the islands in "Greg's" map are massively enlarged. Especially if you look at the size (and proportions of) Voya Nui.


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#56 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 24 2013 - 04:28 PM

Thanks for the quotes, fishers!

 

Re: the neck bending, just look through the giant robot gallery on BS01 (linked in first post; I'm having trouble getting it to load now).

 

In nearly every image his limbs and neck are turned some direction or another, which is part of the reason I had to opt for using a prototype image as it basically the only one lined up in no pose (though others are, but aren't looking directly at him from the front). For the neck (since it has two joints) probably the best images are when he crashes on Aqua Magna, showing lower neck bent, and pretty much any of him standing with head turned sideways, usually showing upper neck bent (there's also the famous CGI depiction of him looking up just before the eyes turn red, showing upper joint bent).

 

Re: what's canon and what isn't -- well, that's what the rest of the first post was meant to clarify. :P Generally anything in brackets or with a question mark is non-canon, plus the interpretation of the domes and tunnels is mostly theory, not confirmed (other than Metru Nui & Karzahni). But here's a summary of what's canon. I'll be as complete as I can remember for sake of anyone reading along.

 

1) Basic shape and proportions of giant robot, plus size and backstory on the image.

 

2) Shapes of islands and continents on the Makuta's Guide to the Universe map, plus approximate locations and comparative sizes (to each other, not to the robot). Distances likely not canon in most cases. NOTE: most of the islands should probably be even smaller than on my map, I purposefully made that part not quite to scale so it's easier to see them. Metru Nui at least is confirmed to be a bit smaller than on mine (but it would have barely shown up if I had it to scale).

 

3) Fact that Karzahni has to be solidly connected to Metru Nui dome, so cannot be in the middle or lower neck, despite the appearance on the Makuta's Guide map (recall that the distances there are clearly not canon).

 

4) Voya Nui's location on Southern Continent (but it's way too big), and over the Karda Nui dome. (Since it only exists separately as an island for a tiny percentage of history I've just shown the dot where Mount Valmai is, approximately, avoiding the issue of how big exactly VN really is.) Also the Pit prison is roughly above it in the ceiling of the SC dome (not depicted on mine).

 

5) Xia destroyed an island. It's not known if it had its own dome as I have it, only that it was uninhabited except by Rahi.

 

6) Artakha's (shoulder) location is secret from other MU inhabitants, yet other islands in same arm are not.

 

7) Daxia's status as an Order base is similarly secret. Not sure if the location is unknown, though (I opt for an explanation that it's known and undesired due to having an overheated environment).

 

8) That Artidax is the southernmost discovered island (at least by the majority of the inhabitants; we know Lesovikk explored the Southern Islands at one point, but as a "self-exile").

 

9) That Pridak ruled Xia, Ehlek ruled Zakaz, and the other generalized statements of territory (northeastern, etc.) without knowing specifics other than those two confirmed islands.

 

10) That there is at least one sea gate between Metru Nui and torso, possibly two because it is usually stated in the plural as sea gates. This cannot be through the same tunnel as the Tunnel of Darkness to Karzahni, but it's unknown whether it goes through those side tubes or if it's all squeezed into the neck itself.

 

11) That there are various smaller islands not depicted.

 

I may be forgetting a few confirmed points too but in general anything other than the above is theory rather than fact. Some of the theories are more certain than others as well -- that Karzahni has to be in the lower head is virtually confirmed, while the location of the Southern Continent is very much up in the air for example.

 

 

 

Skello, yeah, something like that is possible although I doubt it would be quite that extreme. :P But if Mata Nui bends an arm fully for example, it will obviously look something like that. Inside the chest itself I doubt it's noticeable.


Edited by bonesiii, Mar 24 2013 - 04:33 PM.

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#57 Offline fishers64

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Posted Mar 25 2013 - 01:24 AM

You're welcome, bones, and thanks for clarifying for my absent-mindedness. All that searching must have messed with my brain. :P 

If the SC was in the chest, it would seem to me that the Mata Nui residents might have seen it offshore. The robot is huge, but not that huge

 Actually, the robot IS that huge. It is just as tall as Earth is wide, on which you can't even see Russia if you're standing on Alaska. To be honest, I don't see why Mata Nui's chest can't look like this. Nobody said the domes were all at the same height, and as Mata Nui controls the gravity in his own body, the tunnel that connects the domes would be sailable. The Matoran might notice the sudden change in direction, but they're probably used to that kind of thing by now. Also, the island of Mata Nui is approximately the size of the robot's head, and the island is exactly 7.5 times the size of Metru Nui. IMO, it's perfectly logical to assume that the islands in "Greg's" map are massively enlarged. Especially if you look at the size (and proportions of) Voya Nui.

 Okay, I stand corrected on the Voya Nui thing. I agree that the map is possible, (and nicely designed too!) but some nitpicks. One is that the SC should be south of the NC - it seems that on your map that it is the opposite. Second, I found that there are Av-Matoran caves between the KN and SC when I was Greg hunting. Those don't need to be on the map, but it may support your theory. (There might have been tunnels between those tunnels and the NC that went down :shrugs:) And speaking of being absentminded... Third,  

Q: How big are the northern and southern continents, roughly speaking?  A: South is bigger than north.  Q: Where is the northern continent in relation to Metru Nui? Are their domes connected, or near each other at least? Or far apart? Since Metru Nui is the northernmost island.  A: South of Metru Nui. Nothing is north of Metru Nui. And they are a ways apart.

 So the southern continent should be bigger, and the northern continent probably should be further away from Metru Nui. Sorry, I nitpick.  

Q: Since Karda Nui is so big, does it extend underneath all the domes, like how the Archives extend under all of Metru Nui, not just Onu-Metru?  A: No, it doesn’t.

 Some evidence that supports your theory there, I guess.

Edited by fishers64, Mar 25 2013 - 01:25 AM.

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#58 Offline bohrokmaster

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Posted Mar 25 2013 - 04:15 PM

I don't know about you guys but I think it makes more sense if every bionicle island were in Aqua Magna. And the cave world of Karda Nui would be inside the planet as the 'core'. (beneath the sea floor.)

 

I find it very strange that the whole Bionicle Universe/ World is inside the mata nui robot. I sometimes worry for the Toa and the Matoran when I go to sleep. I even had nightmares about the great spirit robot being destroyed.


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#59 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 25 2013 - 04:39 PM

Yanno, I think I've come up with an explanation for Voya Nui that's fairly consistent with Greg's statement, but it's so cool I've decided to save it for my story. :P I see how it could work, so yeah.

 

 

I don't know about you guys but I think it makes more sense if every bionicle island were in Aqua Magna. And the cave world of Karda Nui would be inside the planet as the 'core'. (beneath the sea floor.)

 

I find it very strange that the whole Bionicle Universe/ World is inside the mata nui robot. I sometimes worry for the Toa and the Matoran when I go to sleep. I even had nightmares about the great spirit robot being destroyed.

But then we must ask "why?" This is what we all assumed for a long time, but if the mystery stayed at that assumption, Bionicle would be robbed of its most brilliant, bold, mind-blowingly awesome idea ever. And the idea we were given officially does make more sense because there's a reason for it. The planet was broken and needed healed, so they made a giant being to study other worlds and learn how to heal it -- and he needed maintained, but they wanted to prevent the maintenance workers from realizing where they were lest any take evil (or glitching, as the GBs thought of it) advantage of it and mess it all up (as Makuta almost did).

 

This makes sense from start to finish, although there are still minor mysteries about it as we're discussing here. But then, that's good, right? :) Better to use better imagination, to be bold, and have small issues come up, rather than to just do the boring same old same old (a planet with lots of islands isn't very compelling by comparison).

 

 

And the fact that it's extremely strange is what makes it so awesome. It was meant to be original, unique. "Robots" (as people assumed they were in 2001) on a tropical island was strange too; that was why it was so eye-catching.

 

As for worry -- many Toa and Matoran did die over the years, but this could have happened with islands on a planet anyways. More to the point, it's a story that needs stakes, bad things have to happen to have suspense. It's good that you connect with the characters in such a way and can feel that suspense. Otherwise you'd just be bored. By the same token, we wouldn't want a story to magically protect all our favorite characters, as that's unrealistic so would ruin suspension of disbelief.

 

I'd even go so far as to say it's a very good thing they used these different means to highlight how fragile life on anything traveling through space can be -- after all, a planet is basically the same thing, yet we often seem to take for granted that some freak hit with an asteroid isn't likely, and haven't invested much funds into developing a defense against it. Mata Nui would defend against such things, so life inside the giant robot would actually be much safer. The feeling you get comes from our tendency to merely take for granted how things are here, and it's how different that is that makes us think more about the dangers, but dangers on a planet are real.

 

Also, I envy you. I wish I could have had a dream about such a thing. I love those sorts of dreams. It's like watching a disaster movie, but for free. :P

 

All that said, there's always fanfics. :)


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#60 Offline bohrokmaster

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Posted Mar 25 2013 - 05:59 PM

Actually I was meaning if every island from the Matoran Universe, were on a planet. :) And yes, I fear for the Toa, Matoran, Turaga and everyone's safety, If their whole world is inside the robot.


Edited by bohrokmaster, Mar 30 2013 - 10:16 AM.

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#61 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 25 2013 - 06:23 PM

Actually I was meaning if every island from the Matoran Universe, were on a planet. :) And yes, I fear for the Toa, Matoran, Turaga and everyone's safety. If their whole world is inside the robot.

I know.

 

But canonically, that world has ended now. There's no danger left for them like that. They've moved out onto Spherus Magna. :) So, we can all collectively go "phew, dodged that one!" :P


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#62 Offline Tanu Toa of Earth

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Posted Mar 26 2013 - 07:00 PM

Actually I was meaning if every island from the Matoran Universe, were on a planet. :) And yes, I fear for the Toa, Matoran, Turaga and everyone's safety. If their whole world is inside the robot.

I know.

 

But canonically, that world has ended now. There's no danger left for them like that. They've moved out onto Spherus Magna. :) So, we can all collectively go "phew, dodged that one!" :P

But now it's very possible that some asteroid or large meteorite could come and hit Spherus Magna, haha.


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#63 Offline Darkon219

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Posted Aug 05 2013 - 05:38 PM

Wow, great job guys!


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#64 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Aug 05 2013 - 06:00 PM

Wow, great job guys!

Thanks, but please do not post in topics that have been inactive for thirty days or more.

 

Revived topic closed.


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