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Okay, so we all know that Velika was a Great Being the entire time. I was just thinking that everything that happened in the storyline was his PLAN the entire time. Let me explain.

 

The Great Beings sure did seem to mess up a lot of their creations, didn't they? For such brilliant minds, their inventions had some pretty big flaws in them that none of them seemed to notice in the developing stage. I was thinking that Velika might have actually sabotaged or modified those creations into what they are now. A big example of this is with the Matoran, Toa, etc. How does an AI glitch bring about the incredibly complex personalities of ALMOST EVERYTHING IN THE MATORAN UNIVERSE?! Furthermore, how do beings originally built to just be drones maintaining a giant robot have destinies? That just does! Not! HAPPEN!

 

...Unless of course, if it was Velika's plan to re-program all of them so that everything would play out like he wanted it to. You could argue that certain things that happened to him in the Matoran Universe wouldn't be beneficial in the long run, but where did it get him? One of only a few Great Beings left, on a world that's still trying to adjust to major changes, where he has arguably far more sanity and intelligence than almost anyone. In other words, prime conditions for him to take over, with him none the worse for wear. I could definitely be wrong, but it just seems to make a lot of sense to me.


"Whether that is right or not...I also...as a Rider...have a wish that I want to fulfill."

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No, it was not Velika's plan. He just wanted to see how the MU was like. It was probably another GB's plan, but not Velika, I'm sure of(correct me if I'm wrong, and I probably am). Velika's only "major" plan was during the time as a Matoran, and put into action after the MU was abandoned. And try this:

Soon after, however, Velika began enacting a plan he had developed during his time as a Matoran, and murdered Karzahni as well as Tren Krom. He also made contact with a group of intelligent Vorox, a primal subspecies of the Glatorian (who were the main combatants in the civil war that previously tore his planet apart), and directed them to capture and kill a group of Toa and Glatorian, who were in the process of tracking down the Great Beings in the hopes of informing them about the recent renewal of their planet.As his plan involved the death of some of the most powerful beings in the Matoran Universe, Velika took the opportunity to take Axonn, Brutaka, Miserix, Tuyet, Helryx, Vezon, and Artakha out in one fell swoop, as they had all gathered in one place at the behest of an insane Great Being.

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Greg was pretty adamant that the purpose of the hidden GB was just to observe. He might have done some things after he arrived, but that wasn't his purpose in coming, and any influence to develop something that huge would probably need careful planning to achieve. I doubt it was something a bored Po-Matoran/GB could have pulled off. :P

 

And it is possible for a bunch of "drones" to develop ideas of destiny. We just haven't seen it happen in our world yet. And the MUians were intelligent beings that were supposed to adapt to change in order to keep a giant robot running for 100,000 years. Inteligent beings, at least in our world, naturally develop culture, and humans wrote the story of Bionicle.

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Gonna start a little out of order because it seems you're building this around forgetting a very key point:

 

How does an AI glitch bring about the incredibly complex personalities of ALMOST EVERYTHING IN THE MATORAN UNIVERSE?! Furthermore, how do beings originally built to just be drones maintaining a giant robot have destinies? That just does! Not! HAPPEN!

You're forgetting that those beings are made out of protodermis, a vastly advanced and mysterious molecule. An artificial version, but it's a copy of a natural version and IMO it's most likely that the GBs don't understand everything about it. I think they know how to program some things into it, but don't understand everything that might "come back out" farther down the road, and especially probably don't understand the nature of its organic-imitating option. Instead of brain cells for example, they have protodermis molecules which imitate cells, and the GBs could easily simply not fully understand the nature of this imitation, assuming it was more primitive than it was.

 

An interesting related question would be whether they knew of the Entity, since he was or became sapient too, apparently before this.

 

As for destinies, that is also a core part of at least the design of the artificial protodermis, so I don't understand your confusion there. :P We know the GBs programmed some destinies for example, like that Teridax would help reform the MU. Destinies aren't something that developed as a result of sapience...

 

Okay, so we all know that Velika was a Great Being the entire time. I was just thinking that everything that happened in the storyline was his PLAN the entire time. Let me explain.

I and others have floated this idea before but IMO it has been effectively shot down. He was there to observe. IMO, he was likely especially interested to see how the destiny systems would counteract any unexpected deviance from the programmed "parameters", so his interest was probably scientific. Interfering would ruin this investigation and prevent the destiny system from solving the issues itself.

 

Now, he DID intervene in some small ways when "the fight came to him" as I have documented in detail in a past topic looking at his influence on the 2006 storyline (he initiated nearly every major idea of its first half from the Matoran Resistance, and cleverly hid his 'fingerprints' on that). I'm too lazy right now to dig up the link. It was in one of Erebus's announcement topics. He demonstrated profoundly superior manipulative tactics then.

 

But in general, he probably did not intervene. Maybe he would have if things got too far out of hand, but he didn't (until after the big mission succeeded "on its own" and he began killing off those that had deviated very far from expected parameters like Tren Krom and Karzahni). His manipulative skills seem more to be about protecting his cover rather than protecting the universe. And keep in mind he's a murderer (apparently; we don't know what he's counting on about the Red Star), so he might not care enough to step in.

 

The Great Beings sure did seem to mess up a lot of their creations, didn't they? For such brilliant minds, their inventions had some pretty big flaws in them that none of them seemed to notice in the developing stage. I was thinking that Velika might have actually sabotaged or modified those creations into what they are now.

At one point after his reveal as the murderer this might have seemed reasonable, that he's merely a spreader of chaos, but Greg has seemingly revealed the opposite -- his motive for the murders was to end whatever had deviated from the Great Beings' designs (too far from them anyways).

 

...Unless of course, if it was Velika's plan to re-program all of them so that everything would play out like he wanted it to.

It seems very risky to be in hiding in a universe that doesn't have the abilities of true freewill, and then grant it to them. Wouldn't that be a great way to risk blowing his cover?

 

And I keep coming back to the Entity, which apparently learned sapience Krahka-style. IMO it was inevitable that organic beings of certain mental designs (especially those like the Matoran granted the ability to learn by the GBs intentionally so they could solve new problems for maintenance work) would attain sapience. I think it's an inherent trait of "organic"-imitating protodermis to have the potential to become fully sapient.

 

Angonce's reaction seemed more like the GBs may have been aware it could happen but simply had a designer's humility in that they did not dare to assume it WOULD or HAD happen, lest they seem arrogant and blind themselves to reality. In the process, they did end up blinding themselves to the actual reality in the opposite way. He didn't seem absolutely floored by the revelation, just mildly surprised. (Of course, his emotions in that scene might have been tainted by the seriousness of his mission to stop Marendar, in light of this info.)

 

You could argue that certain things that happened to him in the Matoran Universe wouldn't be beneficial in the long run, but where did it get him? One of only a few Great Beings left, on a world

FTR, pretty sure Greg confirmed the others are still on Spherus Magna somewhere but not interacting with the other beings. So that last line here is apparently inaccurate. But we simply do not know what happened to them.

 

that's still trying to adjust to major changes, where he has arguably far more sanity and intelligence than almost anyone.

Arguably is right, considering that at least at face value he's deteriorated into a murderer...

 

In other words, prime conditions for him to take over, with him none the worse for wear. I could definitely be wrong, but it just seems to make a lot of sense to me.

Well, a selfish takeover may very well be the "grand" endgame his thoughts alluded to in one scene. But this doesn't require him to have been manipulating along the way. It's just as likely he realized from the start (or later) that the intended design of the GBs could lead to such a situation that he could later take advantage of.

 

 

 

Keep in mind that interfering in the "expected parameters" would make success of that core mission less likely anyways. Your suggestions on this seem contradictory to me -- on the one hand you say that his grand plan and reason for interfering with the robot is to rule the successfully reformed SM, yet on the other attribute things with past GB creations going wrong to him. If all his practice is just as basically a professional saboteur, how did he suddenly switch to a profound expert on keeping something that incredibly complex running and succeed? Not sure I follow that reasoning, yanno? :P

 

Admittedly, there's a good example of a character like this in Marvel's adaptation of the Norse mythological character Loki, a mischievous trickster who also tried to attain rule. It's possible but the evidence doesn't seem able to point to such a thing as we have it.

Edited by bonesiii

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But the GB really did mess up their creation and were really lazy.Take the baterra and core war as an example only when some thing affected them (baterra attacked everything,the shattering) did they "move out".

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But the GB really did mess up their creation and were really lazy.Take the baterra and core war as an example only when some thing affected them (baterra attacked everything,the shattering) did they "move out".

I agree wih that. They created the Element Lords because they didn't want to look over the Agori, which resulted in the Core War as the Element Lords were being power-hungry(and still are). So doing all that and not needing the MU residents after is just weird. So, one makes beings as a result of a failure, then plan to kill them after they finished their mission. Doesn't that sound a little cruel?

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Compare that cruelty to making murder-bots that can appear to be trees and rocks, and not at least having the decency to tell people "hey, it's the weapons." Like it or not, the GBs (or some of them?) do seem to have something that does tend to at least appear as cruelty in them. Of course, we don't know the whole situation. And we have to keep in mind that in the case of the MU inhabitants they didn't think they had true freewill. So the Baterra thing could be worse, because the victims were clearly fully sapient.

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I think the Great Beings have a lot of grand ideas, but they don't always map out every possible situation on paper first. Take the Baterra, for example. They will target any being deemed to be dangerous and take them out swiftly and preferably without giving any warning. Sounds good on paper, since the GBs probably thought that anyone without a weapon (or who threw down their weapons to surrender) would be left unharmed and only war-hungry beings would then be killed. They failed to take into account the fact that most people, when attacked, will not drop their weapon, simple because that might seem suicidal. So I agree with bonesiii: The Baterra should at least have been built with some sort of voice-module that demands all weapons to be surrendered; or be programmed to target weapons first and the being second.

 

The Bohrok had a similar issue. They did their job well, but apparently had no way of determining whether their job was supposed to be done at that time or not. They stomped right over the (vital) Matoran population, and they were blissfully unaware that the Great Spirit was in a coma and not ready for takeoff at all. Marendar, the Toa killer, seems unable to be stopped once activated as well. Otherwise Angonce might just have gone to a control room and shut it down temporarily, since he had discovered that the MU inhabitants were sentient and should not be exterminated so quickly.

 

As for actual cruelty, the GBs probably have an entirely different concept of it than us. Given the extensive modifications they have given to several species, and the experiments they have conducted with various volatile substances such as EP and elemental energy, I see the GBs as creators who at least think they are entirely benevolent.

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Vorox- not very benevolent to me,i guess you could say they were modified to adapt to the desert but at the cost of their minds,harsh

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