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Toa of green potential nova blast


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#1 Offline ~garnira returns~

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Posted Mar 29 2013 - 12:59 AM

I had an idea for a rather (potentially) devastating nova blast that a toa of green could use. I assume the conventional theory is that a toa of green would create a blast of plant matter (thorns, chunks of trees, ect.) but what if the nova blast killed all plants in the blast radius, in turn, creating a "cloud" of toxic gases released from the dead plants. This could kill pretty much everything in the "dead zone", perhaps even the toa himself! Could this be a potential nova blast power for the green?


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#2 Offline fazakece

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Posted Mar 29 2013 - 01:11 AM

I don't really think that it will fit for the the Green, they are toa of plant life. Not plant death and toxic corrosion


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#3 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 29 2013 - 01:16 AM

Wouldn't that be the absorption (partially) of their element rather than the releasing of it? What if they were in a pure desert with no plants?

 

Sorry but methinks clearly no.


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#4 Offline Chro

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Posted Mar 29 2013 - 05:50 AM

FLOWERS. FLOWERS EVERYWHERE.
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#5 Offline AdaptingChaos

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Posted Mar 29 2013 - 07:17 AM

I think it'd be a cool idea :)


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#6 Offline Dragonstar7

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Posted Mar 29 2013 - 07:30 AM

I think it's a pretty nice idea, but like Vahki-Nui said, it's a bit unsuitable for a Toa of Plantlife. My idea is that it could be similar to yours, but without the killing plants and spewing toxic gas part.
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#7 Offline Silverglass

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Posted Mar 29 2013 - 03:11 PM

Actually, the BS01 page for "Jungle" says: 

Examples
  • Creating plant life
  • Controlling plant life
    • Changing the form of plants
  • Absorbing plant life
  • Unleashing a Nova Blast of the Green (Toa-exclusive)

"Absorbing plant life".Plus the Nova Blast page says: 

Example Usage

Gali unleashed a Water Nova Blast, drawing in all the moisture from the air for hundreds of kio around and releasing it along with all of her Water powers at once, leveling all of Karzahni in the process.

"...drawing in all the moisture for hundreds of kio around and releasing it along with all of her Water powers at once..."I don't know, but ~garnira returns~' theory could be close. Bonesiii is right about it not working in a lifeless desert, but if Bo-Toa can create plant-life (as it says in the quote), that implies that they can create it anywhere, right? I need to go back and read that other topic...


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#8 Offline Chro

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Posted Mar 29 2013 - 03:40 PM

I still really want to see a nova blast consisting entirely of dangerously launched floral arrangements.


Edited by Chro, Mar 29 2013 - 03:41 PM.

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#9 Offline Katuko

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Posted Mar 29 2013 - 03:50 PM

Absorbing elemental power would be done prior to unleashing a Nova Blast, not as part of the blast reaction itself. If you are doing your epic kill-it-all technique (and possibly going down from it yourself) you would want to be at max power. I took the line from Gali to mean that she had expended at least some of her elemental energy trying to fight off Icarax, and now she was gathering whatever power she could hold in a last-ditch attempt to bring him down.I imagine a Plant Life blast to be like any other Nova Blast: The elemental energy rushing out and taking on its "proper" form, just as if you had shot a beam of fire or water or light.

Edited by Katuko, Mar 29 2013 - 03:51 PM.

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#10 Offline Silverglass

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Posted Mar 29 2013 - 04:30 PM

Frankly, I assume it would manifest itself much like the pokemon move 'Leaf Storm', but obviously with more devastating results, ha ha.


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#11 Offline Makuta Matata

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Posted Mar 29 2013 - 05:42 PM

It would be an explosion of flowers. 


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#12 Offline Silverglass

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Posted Mar 29 2013 - 05:59 PM

The most glorious explosion of flowers ever.


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#13 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 29 2013 - 06:46 PM

Yeah, technically a Nova Blast is just the releasing of... well, I suppose there might be two definitions -- all of whatever EE you have (manifesting as the element), or at least a lot more than a Toa can normally use. So you can combine that with the "partial absorbing" as I call it (meaning the rule Greg added later that you can't absorb your element in order to recharge your supply permanently if you're low) to go over your normal maximum, or, if you're low, to go higher than whatever you're at. The special rule is that anything you absorb, you must soon release, either intentionally before you lose control, or if you wait too long you basically go "mini-Nova" on accident.

 

So yes, absorbing can be involved in the process, but that is not the Nova itself. Nor is it necessary.


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#14 Offline Makuta_of_Oz

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Posted Mar 29 2013 - 07:59 PM

Wouldn't that be the absorption (partially) of their element rather than the releasing of it? What if they were in a pure desert with no plants?

 

Sorry but methinks clearly no.

Then they create the plant life? Jaller did the same thing UNDERWATER to try and create his Nova Blast.


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#15 Offline Silverglass

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Posted Mar 30 2013 - 12:23 AM

So basically: you can, at any place and any time, provided you have enough EE, poof your element into existence and unleash it in a (possibly?) 50 kio radius, or greater, that could potentially raze an entire city to the ground. Thanks for the info, bonesiii. I didn't know about that one rule. Two things that still bug me though: one, this covers fourteen of the sixteen Elements (if you include Shadow), but how would the Nova Blast of a Fa-Toa and a Ba-Toa manifest? And two, was it ever mentioned how long it takes EE to recharge? I swear there were topics on these subjects before, but I can't find them now.


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#16 Offline fishers64

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Posted Mar 30 2013 - 12:30 AM

Er, plant life nova is probably a blast of entangling vines and poisonous thorns, not plant-killing or flowers. Unless the flowers were poisonous and had spikes in them, which I don't rule out as a possibility. 

 

Silverglass, I'm pretty sure Ba-Toa Nova Blast is a black hole. Fa-Toa (that's magnetism) would probably be a magnetic force shoving foes away in all directions. I don't recall EE recharge time, though - I think it depends on the amount you use. 


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#17 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 30 2013 - 02:07 AM

Well, the Toa Metru ran out of EE in the Morbuzahk story and may have been low for a while after that but must have been recharged enough to make the protocage at the end of Legends of Metru Nui. Admittedly that doesn't give a precise answer because making a protocage probably doesn't require a huge amount. But there's no indications by that time that they're having any more problems with that. IMO it's implied at least that by the time they get the Vahki Transport up to Mata Nui they're recharged, although it's been a while since reading it so not entirely sure.

 

By the time they got back to the Visorak, sure, methinks. And all of that apparently only took place in the span of weeks to months, so that should give us some idea of the upper limit of the "uncertainty factor" of it. Probably much faster than that. Days at that most, I'd guess.


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#18 Offline Katuko

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Posted Mar 30 2013 - 07:05 AM

So basically: you can, at any place and any time, provided you have enough EE, poof your element into existence and unleash it in a (possibly?) 50 kio radius, or greater, that could potentially raze an entire city to the ground. Thanks for the info, bonesiii. I didn't know about that one rule.

From what we've seen, a so-called Nova Blast requires you to charge it up somehow, possibly to "prepare" the energy for one massive release so that you get a nuke of fire instead of the usual hand-beams or emanation of heat, for example. A nova spends your entire reserve of elemental energy and can kill you along with everyone else around you. Gali was a Nuva, which probably ramped up her power level a bit, but judging from the reaction he got Jaller Mahri could easily have fireball'ed everyone in the area while underwater. I can imagine that he would have melted himself in the process. I am not sure how much control a Toa have over their Nova Blast, but I imagine it to be very little considering how much EE they have to spend to create it in the first place.

Two things that still bug me though: one, this covers fourteen of the sixteen Elements (if you include Shadow), but how would the Nova Blast of a Fa-Toa and a Ba-Toa manifest? And two, was it ever mentioned how long it takes EE to recharge? I swear there were topics on these subjects before, but I can't find them now.

If we assume that the Bohrok-Kal's powers are similar, then elemental Gravity turned up to eleven would cause a small-scale singularity, crushing things caught in it with an extreme increase in gravity. Magnetism, on the other hand, would probably magnetize everything in the area, causing the objects (and beings) to be tossed into a chaotic field of attraction and repulsion. The forces might force them all to converge into one big mass of magnetized metal (like Gahlok-Kal when it got crushed) or it might simply tear them apart as a leg becomes attached to a wall while the arms tries to reach your fellow Toa. Or maybe some weapons in magnetic flight decide to embed themselves in your gut. 

By the time they got back to the Visorak, sure, methinks. And all of that apparently only took place in the span of weeks to months, so that should give us some idea of the upper limit of the "uncertainty factor" of it. Probably much faster than that. Days at that most, I'd guess.

I'd place my bet at somewhere around a day or two, assuming we start at zero and with no absorption of energy during that period of time. If we assume the law of conservation of energy is at least somewhat in effect, then converting too much of the energy in the Toa's body to EE in a short period of time would leave them too weakened, I think. Alternately, the recharge would be too quick to make excessive use of EE much of an issue.

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#19 Offline Silverglass

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Posted Mar 30 2013 - 04:57 PM

Er, plant life nova is probably a blast of entangling vines and poisonous thorns, not plant-killing or flowers. Unless the flowers were poisonous and had spikes in them, which I don't rule out as a possibility. 

We're just being goofs, ha ha. Because, come on, it would be hilarious. Like saying an Av Nova Blast would be a glorified light-show, ha ha. You're right, though. My golly, imagine all of the weird/freaky plants they could summon in the process. Though now I have this mental-image of a Bo Nova Blast unleashing massive Morbuzakh-like vines all around that can overtake an island in a matter of seconds.  

 

Silverglass, I'm pretty sure Ba-Toa Nova Blast is a black hole. Fa-Toa (that's magnetism) would probably be a magnetic force shoving foes away in all directions. 

 

 

Two things that still bug me though: one, this covers fourteen of the sixteen Elements (if you include Shadow), but how would the Nova Blast of a Fa-Toa and a Ba-Toa manifest? And two, was it ever mentioned how long it takes EE to recharge? I swear there were topics on these subjects before, but I can't find them now.

 

If we assume that the Bohrok-Kal's powers are similar, then elemental Gravity turned up to eleven would cause a small-scale singularity, crushing things caught in it with an extreme increase in gravity. Magnetism, on the other hand, would probably magnetize everything in the area, causing the objects (and beings) to be tossed into a chaotic field of attraction and repulsion. The forces might force them all to converge into one big mass of magnetized metal (like Gahlok-Kal when it got crushed) or it might simply tear them apart as a leg becomes attached to a wall while the arms tries to reach your fellow Toa. Or maybe some weapons in magnetic flight decide to embed themselves in your gut.

Welp, guess which Nova Blast won't be in my fan-fics, eh heh heh. I do like the idea of a massive black-hole, though, or something similar. It has story potential. *strokes chin in thought* As for EE recharge-time, a week or more sounds a bit long, but that's just me. I guess it would depend on the Toa. Perhaps it recharges more quickly for more experienced Toa.Another thing I forgot to ask is what exactly causes the Toa who performed the Nova Blast to die. Being bombarded by your own Element? (I assumed it wasn't the case because said Toa would be in the center of it all, right? I could be very wrong, ha ha.) The physical and/or mental strain? The abrupt depletion of every bit of EE you have? All of the above? Sorry, you've all got me in a groove, and I'm just reveling in all of this info, ha ha.


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#20 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 30 2013 - 05:17 PM

There's been debate about which Toa using a Nova Blast would die. I think it just depends on basic logic and the physics of that element.

 

I'm pretty sure it's confirmed that a Toa of Fire would (so Jaller's in 2007 would have been fatal had he done so). Simply because the heat involved would be way more than even a Fire Toa's resistance. I think once or twice one of them has been shown with their armor beginning to melt.

 

Gali released a Nova Blast of water, however, and obviously didn't die. Perhaps if she didn't have a Mask of Water Breathing she would have died -- unsure. Depends on how the water manifests -- in a big bubble around her? Or more like a wave going out around her?

 

The Kal elements would all apparently be fatal as seen with the Kal themselves (Void not counting of course).

 

Some of the others might not. Ice might not, as long the Toa could be safely thawed out later. And, I guess, assuming they can even freeze (if not I guess they would suffocate...?). Plants... might depend on if they would push inward from pressure and suffocate/crush them, or if poisonous plants can't be prevented from being included. I'd kinda like to think they basically make a roughly dome-shaped superjungle with chaotic creation of new types of plants, if only because that would be a fun story to hear of as they tried to carefully make their way out without pricking their muscles on the wrong thorn or the like.

 

Earth might, as they could perhaps dig out a cave and have some air to breathe. Onua would be a prime candidate for surviving one, methinks.

 

Light would probably be fatal due to the side effect of heat, unsure. (As Takanuva used just a little to carve a solid rock.) But maybe more likely to be survived than Fire as it would have much less total heat.


Edited by bonesiii, Mar 30 2013 - 05:20 PM.

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#21 Offline Katuko

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Posted Mar 30 2013 - 05:24 PM

Another thing I forgot to ask is what exactly causes the Toa who performed the Nova Blast to die. Being bombarded by your own Element? (I assumed it wasn't the case because said Toa would be in the center of it all, right? I could be very wrong, ha ha.) The physical and/or mental strain? The abrupt depletion of every bit of EE you have? All of the above? Sorry, you've all got me in a groove, and I'm just reveling in all of this info, ha ha.

Performing the attack wouldn't do much else than tire you out, but since you're expending all your EE at once you won't have much left to actually control the blast with. I imagine that letting loose a Stone nova while inside a building would crush you along with everyone else; and both Gravity and Magnetism has a very real chance of making you go the same way as the Bohrok-Kal since you are at the very center of the mayhem.Gali's nova blast was described as a gigantic tidal wave, though it wasn't said exactly where it originated. Close to her seems like the best guess, unless her Nuva powers allowed her to draw the ocean onto land instead. The description makes it sound like she gathered and released water at her position, though. Bubble or not, the extreme amount of water would force it into a big wave rushing outwards anyways. The Kaukau Nuva provides protection against extreme water pressure as well as granting the ability to breath underwater, so we can probably give it the credit for none of the Toa Nuva being affected much by the realm-destroying tidal wave. Without it, Gali might very well have made paste of her fellow Toa (and possibly herself).I'd say Ice would be pretty deadly as well, depending on the being and the shape of the blast. If it's just a freeze-over, most biomechanical beings could likely be thawed out eventually, unless they suffocated first. I'm not sure how long the Ta-Matoran guard patrol were frozen in MNOG, but it was certainly for longer than most people can hold their breaths. If the blast took the shape of ice spikes and crystals forming everywhere, people might simply be battered and impaled rather than just frozen.Light sounds deadly to me given that it's capable of slicing through metal when amplified a bit. I imagine a Nova Blast of Light to be like an omni-directional laser (if that makes any sense at all) accompanied by an extremely bright flashbang effect; like the one that blinded the Makuta in Karda Nui.

Edited by Katuko, Mar 30 2013 - 05:32 PM.

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#22 Offline fishers64

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Posted Mar 30 2013 - 09:09 PM

This is getting off topic, but I think the following element types would probably survive their own Nova Blast: 

 

Plants (worst is getting tangled up and maybe poisoned, but they would probably know the anecdote and recharge in time.)

Water (especially if the Toa had a Kaukau)

Air

Ice (the Toa would be frozen, but alive).

Light (I don't think the heat would be enough to kill them. However, if they didn't close their eyes, permanent blindness could result.)

Shadow

Sonics (The Toa would be deaf, though)

Stone and Earth (Not automatically, but the Toa would need to act quickly to avoid suffocation). 

Iron (Same dif.)

 

Elements that would probably kill the Toa in a Nova blast: 

 

Fire

Gravity

Magnetism

Plasma (I think a plasma bath is deadly. :P)

Lightning (I think the electricity at that level would fry the organic components, at least...)

Psionics (This one is debatable, but I think that much mental energy would fry the Toa's brain, leaving him brain-dead. And soon, really dead, thanks to the dangerous state of the MU.)


Edited by fishers64, Mar 30 2013 - 09:10 PM.

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#23 Offline Chro

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Posted Mar 30 2013 - 09:43 PM

I disagree about Iron. I always envisioned an Iron nova blast as a massive storm of shrapnel combined with random columns and bits of metal protruding from the ground and everything everywhere. Basically just iron chaos (which actually sounds like a thing... I'll have to remember that one). So I don't think they'd be able to control it enough to not be wrecked.


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#24 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 31 2013 - 01:29 AM

This is getting off topic, but I think the following element types would probably survive their own Nova Blast: 

 

Sonics (The Toa would be deaf, though)

FTR, it's on-topic enough.

 

I would presume that Sonics is confirmed deadly since it blasted Kohrak-Kal to pieces. :P High intensity enough sound waves act similar to explosives.

 

Psionics (This one is debatable, but I think that much mental energy would fry the Toa's brain, leaving him brain-dead. And soon, really dead, thanks to the dangerous state of the MU.)

Ironically (due to the name similarity :P) this might be a lot like Kohrak-Kal's death by Sonics too, considering telekinesis is part of it.

 

 

[font="Verdana;font-size:12px;color:#808080;font-style:normal;"]I disagree about Iron. I always envisioned an Iron nova blast as a massive storm of shrapnel combined with random columns and bits of metal protruding from the ground and everything everywhere. [/font]

Well, this question has come up often and the only conclusion I've heard is that we don't know which is correct. It would also apply to Stone (which is why I purposefully left out attempting to answer either :P). Either they encase everything solidly, or they make lotsa little solid pieces that then can flow a bit like a liquid. You can make a convincing case either way, so yeah...


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#25 Offline Katuko

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Posted Mar 31 2013 - 07:11 AM

It might also be that Nova blasts can manifest in several different ways. If used in an icy wasteland, a Stone Nova might simply create a big sheet of stone for as long as it can reach. If it was set off near something made of stone, however, that stone would likely be severely warped, with things like spikes jutting out. Small pebbles in the ground would do the same, expanding to become large boulders or sharp pillars shooting upwards.Similarly, I envision an Earth Nova to create lots of mud and soil in a non-dirt environment, while if you were actually standing on dirt ground you would also get extreme tremors and the ground itself being reshaped under your feet.
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#26 Offline Silverglass

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Posted Mar 31 2013 - 10:11 PM

Now that I think about it, doesn't BS01 say something about the effects of a Nova Blast varying? I need to check again; but I guess that would mean that the effects/result of said Nova are entirely up to the writer, provided you adhere to physics and such as closely as possible, of course. 


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#27 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 31 2013 - 10:17 PM

Now that I think about it, doesn't BS01 say something about the effects of a Nova Blast varying? I need to check again; but I guess that would mean that the effects/result of said Nova are entirely up to the writer, provided you adhere to physics and such as closely as possible, of course. 

It does, but not sure if that's meant to refer to the different elements, or to variety in the Novas of a single element:

 

A Nova Blast is an explosive release of all of a Toa's Elemental Energy. Although the effects will vary, the blast radius of a Nova Blast released by an average Toa will encompass an area larger than the city of Metru Nui.


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#28 Offline fishers64

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Posted Apr 01 2013 - 02:58 AM

This is getting off topic, but I think the following element types would probably survive their own Nova Blast:  Sonics (The Toa would be deaf, though)

FTR, it's on-topic enough. I would presume that Sonics is confirmed deadly since it blasted Kohrak-Kal to pieces. :P High intensity enough sound waves act similar to explosives. 

>>Psionics (This one is debatable, but I think that much mental energy would fry the Toa's brain, leaving him brain-dead. And soon, really dead, thanks to the dangerous state of the MU.)

Ironically (due to the name similarity :P) this might be a lot like Kohrak-Kal's death by Sonics too, considering telekinesis is part of it.

 

Okay, I stand corrected. Little confused on how telekinesis might be explosive though- telekinetic forces pulling their body apart?...and even that wouldn't kill them necessarily, considering Toa Mata dissembly wasn't fatal.  


Edited by fishers64, Apr 01 2013 - 02:58 AM.

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#29 Offline Katuko

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Posted Apr 01 2013 - 06:25 AM

Okay, I stand corrected. Little confused on how telekinesis might be explosive though- telekinetic forces pulling their body apart?...and even that wouldn't kill them necessarily, considering Toa Mata dissembly wasn't fatal.

Apart from telekinetic forces pushing you around, it would likely blow your mind. Literally.

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#30 Offline Tanu Toa of Earth

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Posted Apr 02 2013 - 09:45 PM

Okay, I stand corrected. Little confused on how telekinesis might be explosive though- telekinetic forces pulling their body apart?...and even that wouldn't kill them necessarily, considering Toa Mata dissembly wasn't fatal.

Apart from telekinetic forces pushing you around, it would likely blow your mind. Literally.

Ehh, considering the energy is originating and radiating out of the Toa's body itself, I don't think that the telekinesis would harm her, just create a huge bubble of nothing around her as everything is pushed away. The same MIGHT apply to the lightning - since it's coming from the Toa, as long as she doesn't get zapped back by all of the stuff around here that gets charged to crazy levels, she might not actually be hurt.

 

Personally, I don't think that any of the element emitted by the Toa will affect them, but any amount of the material/energy (for instance Fire, Plasma, Magnetism, Earth, or Stone) that comes BACK at the Toa somehow easily could if it's beyond their normal resistance.


Edited by Tanu Toa of Earth, Apr 02 2013 - 09:49 PM.

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#31 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Apr 02 2013 - 10:43 PM

Ehh, considering the energy is originating and radiating out of the Toa's body itself, I don't think that the telekinesis would harm her, just create a huge bubble of nothing around her as everything is pushed away.

That makes sense. Sonics isn't quite so directional, so I guess that's not the best comparison. We'll hope this is the case, anyhow. :P


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#32 Offline Tanu Toa of Earth

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Posted Apr 03 2013 - 07:33 AM

Ehh, considering the energy is originating and radiating out of the Toa's body itself, I don't think that the telekinesis would harm her, just create a huge bubble of nothing around her as everything is pushed away.

That makes sense. Sonics isn't quite so directional, so I guess that's not the best comparison. We'll hope this is the case, anyhow. :P

Yes, A Nova Blast of Sonics would most likely kill the user, possibly in a way that means they can't even be revived by the Red Star, heh.


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#33 Offline northmarch

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Posted Apr 03 2013 - 03:09 PM

I imagine a green nova blast as a wave of energy that would sause all plant matter in the area (including dormant seeds and possibly dead plants) to grow rapidly and chaotically into what is essentially a solid thick ring of plant matter around the toa. Crushing/entangling anyone in it's way when its formed.
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#34 Offline takua123

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Posted Apr 06 2013 - 10:27 PM

Could the nova blast only work if there was plant life in the area? Like would it do nothing in the desert?


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#35 Offline fishers64

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Posted Apr 06 2013 - 11:49 PM

Could the nova blast only work if there was plant life in the area? Like would it do nothing in the desert?

 

No, it would create new plant life to cover the desert. And if the Toa of Plants in question was intelligent, he would create desert plants with his Nova Blast, which would be particularly annoying to any enemies. *pictures wave of cacti expanding out form a central point* 


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#36 Offline Chro

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Posted Apr 07 2013 - 06:57 AM

FLOWERS. FLOWERS EVERYWHERE.

And now cacti, too, apparently. :P


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#37 Offline Zeene

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Posted Apr 07 2013 - 07:11 AM

FLOWERS. FLOWERS EVERYWHERE.

And now cacti, too, apparently. :P

I think you are forgetting the deadly, man-eating, carnivorous plants here.

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#38 Offline Takanuvainika

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Posted Apr 07 2013 - 07:56 AM

I think you mean matoran eating plant and it's called a Daikau


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#39 Offline Chro

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Posted Apr 07 2013 - 12:01 PM

 

FLOWERS. FLOWERS EVERYWHERE.

And now cacti, too, apparently. :P
I think you are forgetting the deadly, man-eating, carnivorous plants here.

Nah, just flowers...


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#40 Offline Your Evil Friend

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Posted Apr 07 2013 - 12:10 PM

Could a Toa of Flowers our seeds down an enemies mouth then make them grow from inside them?


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