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Can Toa have multiple elements

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#1 Offline Ricardo Mason

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Posted Apr 09 2013 - 05:53 PM

Takanuva had Light and Shadow powers when his light all most was drained. But what if other Toa could possess two or more elements without having such a painful reaction with a horrible lab experiment. What are your thoughts?


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#2 Online bonesiii

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Posted Apr 09 2013 - 05:59 PM

Three basic answers to this:

 

1) Naturally (if I understand it right), only if they are in a similar situation to Takanuva, having their light drained, so they're gaining shadow powers, or vice versa, in addition to their natural element. (Not sure off the top of my head if this replaces the element when completed...)

 

2) Wearing an elemental mask, like a Mask of Fire, distinct from their own element.

 

3) Weird experiments. :P


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#3 Offline Dual Cee

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Posted Apr 09 2013 - 06:07 PM

Yeah Bonesii is right, well so there are a few options if you want to have dual elements:Get a Elemental MaskGet semi-shadow drained, only works with shadow, possibly meditation could also work to get shadow or light as seen with Roodaka and White TerryGet a Elemental Weapon E.G Midak Skyblaster.Get fused to other Toa/Elemental Creatures and take the upperhand in its mind.Get yourself altered by the IgnikaThrow yourself in energised protodemis and hope :)Yeah most of those would'd be pretty painfull/immoral
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#4 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted Apr 09 2013 - 06:12 PM

To add on, Takutanuva wasn't really a Toa. Also, remember the Spear of Fusion, it fused a Ta-Toa and a Onu-Toa, which could give it/him access to both elements. Naturally, without anything, it's a "no" to the original question.
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#5 Offline Ricardo Mason

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Posted Apr 09 2013 - 06:35 PM

Well I know the Ignika. I have three elements by the way. I'm not sure with an elemental weapon counts like the Skyblaster. I think the masks though could work, seeing that it has elemental powers.


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#6 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted Apr 09 2013 - 06:41 PM

Masks can work(not just could :)), but IMO Skyblasters don't reply count. They draw light from the surroundings and turn it into shoot able spheres. Doesn't really sound like elemental powers to me. Well, maybe, bu not too much.
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#7 Offline Ricardo Mason

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Posted Apr 09 2013 - 06:49 PM

Bones also said weird experiments that could be the work of a mad scientist. A dark hunter has both fire and earth powers, but they were fused and have both minds. What about an injection of the ability of an element?

 

(What does IMO stand for)


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#8 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted Apr 09 2013 - 07:03 PM

IMO stands for "in my opinion". An injection could work, but it was never known to be tried.
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#9 Offline Ricardo Mason

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Posted Apr 09 2013 - 07:07 PM

Maybe Mutran could've, wait he's dead. Also depends if the person giving the injection is sane enough.


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#10 Offline ToaN

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Posted Apr 09 2013 - 07:09 PM

Toa Kaita are basically Toa with more than one element, and this is a perfectly natural phenomenon. 

 

But could more or less then three Toa fuse to form a Kaita? Could you have two or ten Toa in a Kaita?


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#11 Offline Ricardo Mason

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Posted Apr 09 2013 - 07:11 PM

I thought a Kaita could use the powers that they have, like the one's the Toa Mata turned into.


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#12 Offline ToaN

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Posted Apr 09 2013 - 07:21 PM

From BS01:

 

"A Toa Kaita also possesses greater elemental power than its three component Toa, and can wield the powers in combination."

 

So I assume they can use the individual powers, AND the powers in combination?

 

Ill have to find it in the book.


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#13 Offline T.B.O.C

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Posted Apr 09 2013 - 07:21 PM

Kaita are different, I believe, as they are more powerful and have different mask powers, and take on their own person, as a combination of the three minds.

 

Also, to a post far above, they are referencing Takanuva when he was partially light-drained, not as Takutanuva.

 

But yeah, Elemental masks would give some powers, and light drainage would do so as well, I believe. We have seen other beings have two as a result of a fusion, though that's a special case and they weren't really a Toa afterwards. Experiments may harbor results as well.


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#14 Offline Ricardo Mason

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Posted Apr 09 2013 - 07:32 PM

Well he did gain both powers when that happened. Also for me, Kaita is a sole body made from three or more bodies of different elemental abilities. Also I didn't think Takutsnuva. He really never used his powers. But '08 Takanuva on the other hand, did use both powers. I think?


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#15 Offline ToaN

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Posted Apr 09 2013 - 08:13 PM

It seems your right. In "Tales of the Toa", the first bionicle book, the Kaita used only combinations of the elements (wind, water, and cold to make a blizzard for example).

 

So Kaita do not qualify as a multi-element toa :(

 

About the mask thing: I agree. This would make Toa Mahri Hewkii and Toa of Stone + Gravity.


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#16 Online bonesiii

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Posted Apr 09 2013 - 09:25 PM

I'm not sure if it was ever denied that Kaita could use just one element, just posting to point out, though, that if they needed to do so they could simply split. :P


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#17 Offline Ricardo Mason

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Posted Apr 09 2013 - 09:29 PM

Hence why after one battle they split back apart to the trio or whatever. But Hewkii Mahri is a good example. He did control Gravity via his mask, and already possess the power of Stone.


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#18 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted Apr 09 2013 - 10:03 PM

They split after one battle because Mangaia had too much darkness for unity.
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#19 Offline Ricardo Mason

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Posted Apr 09 2013 - 10:12 PM

Then what about with the Bohrok?

 

On topic. Is there any other method that a Toa can have multiple powers, other than Ignika, masks, light drain, or experimentation.


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#20 Online bonesiii

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Posted Apr 09 2013 - 10:47 PM

I suppose Artakha might be able to make one, or learn how, from the Mask of Creation. Of course, he probably has no interest in doing so.


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#21 Offline Ricardo Mason

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Posted Apr 09 2013 - 11:07 PM

Maybe, then again he rarely is seen by anyone.


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#22 Offline fishers64

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Posted Apr 10 2013 - 04:40 AM

Then what about with the Bohrok? On topic. Is there any other method that a Toa can have multiple powers, other than Ignika, masks, light drain, or experimentation.

Partial Shadow drain, and meditation to get rid of inner shadow. The Spear of Fusion, I think this was mentioned. Also tools and Rhotuka can have powers, as the Hagah demonstrate.Also, Red Star lightning. Toa Inika had elementals laced with lightning. Not sure that counts as multiple powers...

Edited by fishers64, Apr 10 2013 - 04:43 AM.

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#23 Offline ChroXumo

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Posted Apr 10 2013 - 05:49 AM

I don't think that a Toa with an elemental mask could really be considered a Toa with two elements. Elemental masks, from what I remember, have limited control of the element (or at least the Garai did), instead using just a subpower.

do think that an elemental mask of, say, plasma, could be used similarly to the Inika's lightning attacks, to add to the power by combining the two.


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#24 Online bonesiii

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Posted Apr 10 2013 - 01:44 PM

[font="Verdana;font-size:12px;color:#808080;font-style:normal;"]Elemental masks, from what I remember, have limited control of the element (or at least the Garai did), instead using just a subpower.[/font]

This is why I think people should keep the "Garai = subpower" theory strongly in mind. Based on the English "translation", this idea is reasonable, but more logical seems to be the idea that the Garai could really be translated better as "Mask of Weight Control", rather than the full element of Gravity. In the case of the Mask of Light, there appeared to be no such limitations and it even had a few extra abilities besides. And Greg confirmed that there are Disks of Fire and the like which in disk form appear to simply grant the use of Fire to the user, and could be made into elemental masks to do the same. It seems unlikely that any of these would have such severe restrictions as the Kanohi Garai.

 

At the very least, we should not assume that the Garai is meant to establish a universal rule of limitations like that (unless Greg at some point confirmed it?).


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#25 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted Apr 10 2013 - 02:01 PM

Then what about with the Bohrok?

Yeah, I know, we're getting off topic but I can't help but answer this one. The Bohrok-Kal Kaita's power blast thing was so powerful it made the Nuva Kaita(Wairuha) lose concentration and split.

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#26 Offline boston100

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Posted Apr 10 2013 - 09:42 PM

I think it is possible but not likely


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#27 Offline Katuko

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Posted Apr 11 2013 - 10:44 AM

Toa are 85% mechanical, and they have an internal "elemental battery" of sorts. The Toa are made to work with specific elements. This is kind of like how we might build one robot that can shoot fire and another that can shoot lightning; we would have to construct them differently. We could make just one robot that shoots both fire and lighting, but that would require a reconstruction of some sorts, either by adding new parts, changing the ones that are already there, or combining the parts of two or more robots.In BIONICLE, these things can be accomplished by mutation, fusion, swapping masks, using powers to emulate others, etc. Other transformations such as becoming a Toa in the first place also work. Without at least some direct modification to the body itself - even if it's something as minor as putting on an elemental Kanohi or unbalancing the inner light/shadow center - I don't think a single Toa could wield two different elements. A Toa of Fire's elemental ability simply isn't made to handle solids such as rock, for example. They would need something to aid them in converting stone to/from elemental energy, and also manipulate that Stone energy.

Edited by Katuko, Apr 11 2013 - 10:45 AM.

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#28 Offline DuplexBeGreat

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Posted Apr 11 2013 - 05:03 PM

Well he did gain both powers when that happened. Also for me, Kaita is a sole body made from three or more bodies of different elemental abilities. Also I didn't think Takutsnuva. He really never used his powers. But '08 Takanuva on the other hand, did use both powers. I think?

Wait, um, regarding exact wording: Kaita are NOT "three or more". They are exactly three. Six is a Nui, and there is no current knowledge which would give evidence of combinations of four or five toa existing. Just saying this because it appears you are under the impression that any number of Toa above 2 can combine, which is incorrect to our current knowledge.

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#29 Offline Ricardo Mason

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Posted Apr 11 2013 - 05:50 PM

I have never seen a 'Toa Nui' in my life. Only Turaga and Matoran. Besides that is the Kaita version of Matoran and Turaga. I have never heard of Matoran forming into three, or Turaga.


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#30 Online bonesiii

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Posted Apr 11 2013 - 05:56 PM

Just for the record, "Kaita" does indeed mean exactly three, and "Nui" six. However, other numbers would be possible with the Mask of Fusion. :)


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#31 Offline Snubby

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Posted Apr 11 2013 - 06:02 PM

Takanuva had Light and Shadow powers when his light all most was drained. But what if other Toa could possess two or more elements without having such a painful reaction with a horrible lab experiment. What are your thoughts?

Nope. Takanuva had his light drained, and if you take away light you have shadow, so I think that would be the only way.

I don't know about lab experiments, BIONICLE chemistry, BIONICLE physics and other assorted BIONICLE subjects that would be needed in a lab experiment, so I'm not the one to ask about that.


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#32 Offline Ricardo Mason

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Posted Apr 11 2013 - 06:09 PM

I will quote this from Biosector01.

 

Elements: Toa of Light and Shadow.

 

When he had his light drained, just like anyone else, they got shadow powers. So when he had his light drained, he too got access to this.


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#33 Offline DuplexBeGreat

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Posted Apr 12 2013 - 08:34 AM

I have never seen a 'Toa Nui' in my life. Only Turaga and Matoran. Besides that is the Kaita version of Matoran and Turaga. I have never heard of Matoran forming into three, or Turaga.

You haven't seen a Toa Nui because even though they have been confirmed to exist, none of the inhabitants of the MU know this.

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#34 Offline Makuta Matata

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Posted Apr 12 2013 - 03:28 PM

Like Hewkii. He wears a Mask of Gravity, so technically he controls Stone and Gravity. 


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