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#1 Offline Loading...

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 04:39 PM

So everyone knows that in the MU's past Mahri-Nui "fell off" of Voya-Nui and landed somewhere on the ocean floor some time after Mata-Nui's big fall. But what did they land on? I was always under the impression that they landed on the edge of some kind of undersea cliff that led down to the pit, but if that's true then somehow a giant cliff formed on Mata-Nui's chest some time after the Great Cataclysm and the last I checked, giant cliffs don't naturally form that way.

 

So am I simply misinformed as to the way that Mahri-Nui existed in Aqua-Magna, or is there no real explanation for this? I guess the island may have landed ON Mata-Nui but then how did the "cliff-Pit" thing work out? Most likely I'm only mistaken here, but I don't have an explanation and I wondered what everyone else had understood of all this.


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#2 Offline Vote Saxon

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 04:57 PM

That's actually a good question. Going with this concept art one could maybe explain it with a natural underwater cliff right next to the robot. Maybe when Mata Nui crashed on Aqua Magna, the impact caused the robot to break the ground, meaning there is now a Mata Nui shaped underwater canyon beneath the ocean's surface


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#3 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 05:26 PM

All kinds of possibilties for this.

 

My preferred answer is that the camouflage system creates a (relatively) thin rock layer with random formations all over the robot, and the Bohrok are only needed for the thicker bedrock under the face island. So "giant cliff" is relative to Mahri Nui, not to the 40-million-feet-tall robot. And Mahri Nui is apparently not huge as-is, so yeah.

 

Or the cliff could be part of the design of the robot (which wasn't exactly paper-flat).

 

Or, it could be part of the results of the Great Cataclysm, especially a fault created by Voya Nui crashing through and/or the Pit itself rupturing.

 

Yet another option is that somehow volcanism post-GC created the cliff.

 

Any combination of parts of these ideas is possible, even all of them at the same time (unlikely but hey who knows :P).


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#4 Offline Tecnokua Mudkip apprentice

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 06:16 PM

I agree with Bonesiii also in The legend reborn we see Rocks fall off of the matanui robot ans he stands up so if it made a thin layer that would fall off whtn matanui was awaken it would make since.


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#5 Offline -Jaller-

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 06:23 PM

That's actually a good question. Going with this concept art one could maybe explain it with a natural underwater cliff right next to the robot. Maybe when Mata Nui crashed on Aqua Magna, the impact caused the robot to break the ground, meaning there is now a Mata Nui shaped underwater canyon beneath the ocean's surface

I looked at tue picture and now I have a question. Where is Metru Nui? It says its under Mata Nui (the island). So is it under Mata Nui, or am I mistken?

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#6 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 06:25 PM

That's actually a good question. Going with this concept art one could maybe explain it with a natural underwater cliff right next to the robot. Maybe when Mata Nui crashed on Aqua Magna, the impact caused the robot to break the ground, meaning there is now a Mata Nui shaped underwater canyon beneath the ocean's surface

I looked at tue picture and now I have a question. Where is Metru Nui? It says its under Mata Nui (the island). So is it under Mata Nui, or am I mistken?

Yes, Mata Nui was the camouflage island over the face, and Metru Nui was in a dome inside the head.


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#7 Offline -Jaller-

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 06:28 PM

That's actually a good question. Going with this concept art one could maybe explain it with a natural underwater cliff right next to the robot. Maybe when Mata Nui crashed on Aqua Magna, the impact caused the robot to break the ground, meaning there is now a Mata Nui shaped underwater canyon beneath the ocean's surface

I looked at tue picture and now I have a question. Where is Metru Nui? It says its under Mata Nui (the island). So is it under Mata Nui, or am I mistken?
Yes, Mata Nui was the camouflage island over the face, and Metru Nui was in a dome inside the head.
Alright. Thank you

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#8 Offline northmarch

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 06:35 PM

That's actually a good question. Going with this concept art one could maybe explain it with a natural underwater cliff right next to the robot. Maybe when Mata Nui crashed on Aqua Magna, the impact caused the robot to break the ground, meaning there is now a Mata Nui shaped underwater canyon beneath the ocean's surface

I looked at tue picture and now I have a question. Where is Metru Nui? It says its under Mata Nui (the island). So is it under Mata Nui, or am I mistken?
Metru-Nui is in Mata-Nui's head. Also by all descriptions Mata-Nui (island) is bigger than either of the continents.The barraki had already built a fortres where mahri-nui landed so the formation could have been altered by them.

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#9 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 06:44 PM

I agree with Bonesiii also in The legend reborn we see Rocks fall off of the matanui robot ans he stands up so if it made a thin layer that would fall off whtn matanui was awaken it would make since.

The "rocks" were part of the island of Mata Nui.And about the pit, I read on BS01 somewhere that it was constructed in its own dome in the MU, and water(with mutagen) leaked in, making it watery.

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#10 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 06:55 PM

Also by all descriptions Mata-Nui (island) is bigger than either of the continents.

That's probably not the case, and there's actually evidence it's much smaller as has been discussed in recent topics based on the confirmed sizes of the robot itself and that island. Actually the current problem seems to be that it has to be much smaller than we would think (about half the size from the portrayal in that concept art).


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#11 Offline fishers64

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 07:35 PM

Maybe I'm just tired, but this seems the most logical explanation: 

 

Posted Image

 

However, I think that there might be caves/land below the cliff, which could be explained by the full land-covering theory or just rubble getting scattered over Mata Nui in in the crash. A giant robot crashing would stir up that seafloor pretty bad, I think. 


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#12 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 07:56 PM

The Pit has an entire dome to itself, filled with jail cells housing the universe's most notorious criminals. After the Great Cataclysm, the Pit was a submerged wreckage, containing little more than Rahi and a few Zyglak. After the Staff of Artakha was used, the Pit was restored to its former state, and the water within it was later drained.

Mahri Nui fell around the Pit, so it should be around there.

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#13 Offline Loading...

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 09:03 PM

Along these lines of discussion another question comes to mind. How on earth did Voya-Nui float perfectly back to the hole it left in the ceiling of the MU after the chord was broken?

Edited by Loading..., Apr 23 2013 - 09:05 PM.

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#14 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 09:08 PM

My best guess is gravity, and the weight of the whole island keeps it from floating away.
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#15 Offline fishers64

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 09:17 PM

Along these lines of discussion another question comes to mind. How on earth did Voya-Nui float perfectly back to the hole it left in the ceiling of the MU after the chord was broken?

 

The best theory I've been able to come up with is that it was pulled back in/guided in by the Staff of Artahka. 


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#16 Offline Loading...

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 09:18 PM

My best guess is gravity, and the weight of the whole island keeps it from floating away.

Well yes :P, but the island had floated away from the hole after it surfaced, so how did it get back to the EXACT place and in the EXACT position needed in order to fit? Luck? Magnets? Ocean currents?Wait, also, when Mahri-Nui hit the foor it hit a field of airweed, where did all that come from?

Edited by Loading..., Apr 23 2013 - 09:32 PM.

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#17 Offline fishers64

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 09:29 PM

My best guess is gravity, and the weight of the whole island keeps it from floating away.

Well yes :P, but the island had floated away from the hole after it surfaced, so how did it get back to the EXACT place and in the EXACT position needed in order to fit? Luck? Magnets? Ocean currents?

 

A magnetic force, generated by the Staff of Artahka. 


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#18 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 09:30 PM

My best guess is gravity, and the weight of the whole island keeps it from floating away.

Well yes :P, but the island had floated away from the hole after it surfaced, so how did it get back to the EXACT place and in the EXACT position needed in order to fit? Luck? Magnets? Ocean currents?
 A magnetic force, generated by the Staff of Artahka. 
The thing is, when was the Staff activated? Exactly when the Toa Mahri destroyed it? And that wouldn't of been possible, as the Staff drained the water out of the Pit(Mahri Nui was around the same area as the Pit), so the Toa would of "drowned on dry land".

Edited by Takua Dragonstar7, Apr 23 2013 - 09:33 PM.

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#19 Offline Loading...

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 09:41 PM

My best guess is gravity, and the weight of the whole island keeps it from floating away.

Well yes :P, but the island had floated away from the hole after it surfaced, so how did it get back to the EXACT place and in the EXACT position needed in order to fit? Luck? Magnets? Ocean currents?
 A magnetic force, generated by the Staff of Artahka. 
But if the Staff did it it would also be fixing the MU ceiling and would end up cutting it off from getting inside....what I mean is that if the staff was the means of pulling the island, I would be active and if active also fixing the rest of the MU, including the hole tgat the island needed to fit through. A fixed hole would bar the island from returning inside?

Edited by Loading..., Apr 23 2013 - 09:47 PM.

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#20 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 09:54 PM

Like I said, according to what I got from BS01. The Staff couldn't of been activated yet, but if it were to be then that's an interesting way to put it.

The thing is, when was the Staff activated? Exactly when the Toa Mahri destroyed it? And that wouldn't of been possible, as the Staff drained the water out of the Pit(Mahri Nui was around the same area as the Pit), so the Toa would of "drowned on dry land".


Edited by Takua Dragonstar7, Apr 23 2013 - 09:56 PM.

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#21 Offline fishers64

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 10:04 PM

I was under the impression the Staff was a thing controlled by destiny, and it would do things in the proper order: first pull the island back, then fix the ceiling, then drain the Pit. And also, we don't know that it wasn't activated by that time. 

 

If that theory doesn't work, then there is the matter of the water flooding into the MU. That forms a water current that could have pulled the island toward the proper place, and then the weight of the island and gravity would have done the rest. 


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#22 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Apr 24 2013 - 07:33 AM

Wow lots to catch up on now lol...

Maybe I'm just tired, but this seems the most logical explanation: 

 

[linkified]

 

However, I think that there might be caves/land below the cliff, which could be explained by the full land-covering theory or just rubble getting scattered over Mata Nui in in the crash. A giant robot crashing would stir up that seafloor pretty bad, I think. 

Isn't that image saying that Mahri Nui itself was the cliff? But it was clearly stated and shown to have landed on a pre-existing cliff, re: this image for example.

 

Along these lines of discussion another question comes to mind. How on earth did Voya-Nui float perfectly back to the hole it left in the ceiling of the MU after the chord was broken?

It was clearly stated that the Staff of Artakha directed it there telekinetically as part of the damage-healing process.

 

My best guess is gravity, and the weight of the whole island keeps it from floating away.

No, the island naturally floated. Gravity alone wouldn't do it.

 

magnetic force, generated by the Staff of Artahka. 

Sort of -- I would say telekinetic. It's mostly rock and there's no evidence it's magnetic rock. (Of course, wayback in my old Wacky Physics topic I pointed out that pinpoint-cloud magnetic fields could be how telekinesis operates.)

 

Well yes :P, but the island had floated away from the hole after it surfaced, so how did it get back to the EXACT place and in the EXACT position needed in order to fit? Luck? Magnets? Ocean currents?Wait, also, when Mahri-Nui hit the foor it hit a field of airweed, where did all that come from?

If you're asking why there happened to be airweed growing there, BS01 states that it was native to the Great Sea (Aqua Magna), and Mahri Nui didn't fall until the giant robot had been resting there for 700 years, plenty of time for it to spread to that spot.

 

The thing is, when was the Staff activated? Exactly when the Toa Mahri destroyed it? And that wouldn't of been possible, as the Staff drained the water out of the Pit(Mahri Nui was around the same area as the Pit), so the Toa would of "drowned on dry land".

It really doesn't matter. If slightly before, it would not have been able to sink -- that was the whole reason they had to blow up the cord. If after, Voya Nui would have floated peacefully until it was activated.

 

And I don't quite understand what you mean about the draining thing. The quote you posted seems to imply the staff did not drain the water:

 

The Pit has an entire dome to itself, filled with jail cells housing the universe's most notorious criminals. After the Great Cataclysm, the Pit was a submerged wreckage, containing little more than Rahi and a few Zyglak. After the Staff of Artakha was used, the Pit was restored to its former state, and the water within it was later drained.

Emphasis mine. And Mahri Nui obviously wasn't in the Pit anyways, so water out of it wasn't drained. If you're asking how they were to survive, had the Ignika not intervened, they would have simply lived in water for the rest of their lives -- simple. :P

 

 

But if the Staff did it it would also be fixing the MU ceiling and would end up cutting it off from getting inside....what I mean is that if the staff was the means of pulling the island, I would be active and if active also fixing the rest of the MU, including the hole tgat the island needed to fit through. A fixed hole would bar the island from returning inside?

What fishers said. Plus, it's quite reasonable to assume the hole it created was slightly larger than it and that healing the outer hull (generating new material) takes a lot longer than telekinetically pulling old material back, so in the time between the activation and VN reaching that spot, whatever was healed still left a hole larger than VN. Think of it like this -- what takes longer in real life -- to grow a coral reef or to push a chunk of reef through a hole even as coral grows to fill it in? Pretty obvious, I would think. :P Besides, why bother returning VN at all if healing missing material was so easy? Just wave the staff and there's new land there. :P Clearly it wasn't that fast or powerful.

 

And there's no "if" there -- the staff was what pulled it in.


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#23 Offline fishers64

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Posted Apr 24 2013 - 08:02 AM

I stand corrected. That image does look like the edge of the robot, but I doubt that's the case. Maybe that gray curve on the right is the robot's chest armor. :shrugs: 

 

And yes, now I remember the telekinetic thing. I think I even looked up a Greg quote on it once. 


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#24 Offline Indigogeek

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Posted Apr 24 2013 - 12:04 PM

We did see layers of rock falling off of the MU robot at the end of 2008. If a crust layer of rock was forming on the robot (which is likely) then this layer could be uneven, forming cliffs.


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#25 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Apr 24 2013 - 05:08 PM

Yeah, I just re-watched the Mata Nui Rising video. I think it's pretty clear there is a thin layer of rock on the body, not just the head. Most of the rock of the head falls away to the sides of the head before he really even gets started standing up, and at one point you can clearly see one big chunk adhered to a leg until the whole robot shakes and it's knocked loose.

 

I don't have TLR and it seems hard to find that clip online, but caught a few seconds of it and it also seems to have pieces coming off from all over the body, not just the head.


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#26 Offline fishers64

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Posted Apr 24 2013 - 06:32 PM

It would make sense; Mata Nui might have to land on different planets with different seafloors that might require other parts of his body to be camouflaged  not just his head. 


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#27 Offline Pikiru

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Posted Apr 24 2013 - 06:59 PM

[color=#000080;]Does any one know actually how Voya Nui floated in the first place?[/color]

 

[color=#000080;]Its an island sized chunk of rock, I would think it would sink. Aside from just 'Bionicle physics is different', is there a reason. Is Voya Nui somehow lighter then the water of Aqua Magna?[/color]

 

[color=#000080;]P.S. Bonesiii could you give me the link to your old 'wacky physics topic' (I am not entirely sure how to get to it and it sounds really cool)?[/color]


Edited by Pikiru, Apr 24 2013 - 07:00 PM.

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#28 Offline Loading...

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Posted Apr 24 2013 - 09:49 PM

[color=rgb(0,0,128);]Does any one know actually how Voya Nui floated in the first place?[/color]

 

[color=rgb(0,0,128);]Its an island sized chunk of rock, I would think it would sink. Aside from just 'Bionicle physics is different', is there a reason. Is Voya Nui somehow lighter then the water of Aqua Magna?[/color]

 

[color=rgb(0,0,128);]P.S. Bonesiii could you give me the link to your old 'wacky physics topic' (I am not entirely sure how to get to it and it sounds really cool)?[/color]

 

I thought there had been a theory made that the caves all throughout the "belly" of the island held enough air somehow that the island floated like a giant piece of pumice stone. :???:


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#29 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Apr 24 2013 - 10:35 PM

We don't know how it floated, but probably something like pumice. In addition to the caves theory, I've also proposed the Ignika might have made the entire rock alive and modified its structure (or enough of it) to float.

 

I tried to find a google cache of Wacky Physics, but sorry, no go. It's on the Archives so apparently can't be accessed until they come back online. :(


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#30 Offline Pikiru

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Posted Apr 28 2013 - 10:30 PM

[color=#000080;]It could be like pumice, but there would have to be a lot of caves. It could also be that the Ignika somehow kept it afloat, maybe its a combination of the two?[/color]

 

[color=#000080;]Thats too bad. I really wanted to see the topic. Oh well, maybe when the Archives become active again I will be able to find it.[/color]


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