19 replies to this topic

[slifer3000]

OK, so how powerful are Rahkshi? Equal to the average Toa?And how some some Rahkshi control elements (ex. Su-Rahkshi) and some control just random powers? 

It was hard for the Toa Nuva, the ultimate Toa, to defeat them, but later in the story they are easy to subdue. Maybe the six Rahkshi used on the Toa Nuva were the most dangerous?

[Dralcax]

I think the Rahkshi are about Toa- level in strength, but the powers they have, like Shattering, Hunger, or Poison can be more destructive than others like Ice Resistance or Heat Vision.

[slifer3000]

I always thought fear was the deadliest to a Toa team. 

[Chro]

I agree, fear and anger may very well be the most destructive to a team, because it destroys their unity, which (when intact) can be a great advantage.

I think the first six Rahkshi in the story were really effective because they had a mix of mental and physical destruction. Also, most of them had instant attacks- anger or shattering are applicable in pretty much any situation, whereas something like chain lightning or adaption might not always be so effective.

[slifer3000]

Where is the line between elemental power and just power? Rahkshi can have elements or just powers, and so can Kanohi, so where is the difference?

[All Or None]

It was hard for the Toa Nuva, the ultimate Toa, to defeat them, but later in the story they are easy to subdue. Maybe the six Rahkshi used on the Toa Nuva were the most dangerous?

 

My understanding is that those Rahkshi were being directly controlled or directed by Makuta, whereas later Rahkshi (the ones that were easier to subdue) were "wild" Rahkshi.

 

According to BS01, Rahkshi are naturally destructive, and go out of their way to cause destruction, but acting under orders channels this instinct, making them more dangerous and harder to defeat.

[Katuko]

A Rahkshi's power comes from its Kraata, and also from its staff. For example, Guurahk can disintegrate objects with a touch, while the staff allows it to more easily reach weak points and channel its power more effectively as a beam. The power of a Kraata depends on its level, which is sort of a measurement of how long it's been alive and how experienced it is.The six Rahkshi that Makuta released on Mata Nui were top level, so they were able to use their powers to their fullest extent. For comparison, let's take a look at the power of Fragmentation. At level 1, the Kraata can "tunnel through rock explosively", which means that it can make a hole about the size of itself with ease. At level 5, it can "forcefully shatter rock and metal on contact", which means that it can make far larger objects go boom. At level 6 (max), it can create explosions in the immediate area (that is, outside of touch range) even without armor or a staff. When stuffed into a Rahkshi, these powers become that much more potent because the wielder is now a humanoid with a channeling weapon and not just a squishy slug.The Rahkshi that the Toa Nuva met thus had the advantage of being at full power, being directly ordered around by their master, and also having the element of surprise. If we go by the movie event (Mask of Light), then the Rahkshi simply showed up, blasted away with tremendous power, and then left again once they failed to locate the mask they sought. In a more specific example: The Vohrak got the drop on Onua, who tried to defend himself in close quarters (something his Pakari would let him do with ease), but he was not prepared for the creature to be able to just siphon all his energy away at a touch. Similarly, Tahu got struck with dangerous rage, while at least two victims were stopped in their tracks by fear beams. Teridax chose to send Rahkshi that specifically countered their enemies, and it worked pretty well.The other Rahkshi encountered in the story have not been of such a high level, and some didn't even have staffs with them. A Rahkshi of Weather Control attacked the Toa Metru in the Archives, for example, but since it wasn't being directed by any Makuta and it had no, it was more like a wild beast. It so happens that weather effects can be countered by Toa of Water and Air, too, and underground I don't know if it could even use its power fully.

Where is the line between elemental power and just power?Rahkshi can have elements or just powers, and so can Kanohi, so where is the difference?

Elemental powers operate by converting to and from a storage of elemental energy. They are also usually some basic part of the environment, such as Air or Electricity. A Rahkshi of Electricity doesn't have the versatility that a full-fledged elemental power would have, however. It can create and control electrical currents, and though I don't think it runs out of energy very quickly I doubt it could absorb all that much of it either. The existence of a Rahkshi of Chain Lighting (splitting bolts that jump between targets) also seems to imply that a Rahkshi of Electricity has a lot narrower focus than an elemental power would have.A Sonics Kraata is described only as blasting sound waves at beings and objects, nothing about bending sound or absorbing it. Instead there are the separate powers of Silence (dampening sound) and Power Scream (amplifying your voice to extreme levels). This is also true for elemental Shadow vs Rahkshi of Darkness, Toa of Plant Life vs Rahkshi of Plant Control, etc. A Toa's power is a lot wider in scope, but the Rahkshi's narrow power can potentially grow to outdo the Toa if they were to compete in that specific skill.In terms of biology, a Toa's body is created specifically for controlling a certain element. Meanwhile, a Makuta has a ton of more generic powers in its body, and can extract only one to put into a Kraata.

Edited by Katuko, Apr 28 2013 - 02:27 PM.

[boston100]

think they are toa level streghnth

[Canis Lycaon]

think they are toa level streghnth

Well, Level Three or Four is probably Toa level. Five is probably on equal footing with a Toa Nuva, and Six is stronger.

[slifer3000]

think they are toa level streghnth

Well, Level Three or Four is probably Toa level. Five is probably on equal footing with a Toa Nuva, and Six is stronger.

Where is this chart of power levels?

[Canis Lycaon]

Here you go. The Rahkshi on Mata Nui were Level Six. They easily defeated the Toa Nuva, who are the strongest Toa ever.

[slifer3000]

ooooooh the rahkshi levels. I thought you meant there was a chart for Toa too.

[bonesiii]

OK, so how powerful are Rahkshi? Equal to the average Toa?And how some some Rahkshi control elements (ex. Su-Rahkshi) and some control just random powers? 

It was hard for the Toa Nuva, the ultimate Toa, to defeat them, but later in the story they are easy to subdue. Maybe the six Rahkshi used on the Toa Nuva were the most dangerous?

To add to previous posts (and let me give one giant nod to Katuko's post), the 2003 Rahkshi combined every factor possible (or nearly) to give them the maximum total effectiveness in that situation. A mission (motivation rule), level (strength rule) and good power matchup against the Toa they were facing at that time (until Takanuva came along, and then they were easy to subdue). Plus direct oversight by Makuta, and staggering the launch, so three came out first, then delay, then three more, as well as sneak attacks and the like.

 

Rahkshi later on were often either encountered randomly (2004 flashbacks) or were in the final battle, so geared up for "attacks in general" rather than to a specific small group of characters.

 

So statistics demands that in most of those situations, Rahkshi should be easier to defeat. The random encounters with wild Rahkshi will by definition lack motivation, and will tend to be lower level. Whether they're a good power matchup would be random. They're also usually less in number.

 

In the battle, the Rahkshi may have been more limited than the 2003 Rahkshi in some ways just by virtue of being in a big group, including non-Rahkshi allies. They'd have to tone down their use of powers to make sure they didn't accidentally kill/defeat their own allies or other Rahkshi getting in the way. So a big group would go up in danger level dramatically for a while, but over a certain size it would seem to level off. Also, to populate the battle fully Makuta likely had to send whatever Rahkshi happened to be ready, including mostly lower level ones, and Makuta wasn't directly overseeing them as he was distracted by Mata Nui.

 

 

Where is the line between elemental power and just power? Rahkshi can have elements or just powers, and so can Kanohi, so where is the difference?

Keep in mind that in 2003 when the Kraata powers list was given, those Kal elements were not elements yet; Greg only decided that later. And it's possible to have a "just a power" version of an element, rather than a full Toa-style elemental control. So the Rahkshi versions are almost certainly "elemental sub-powers".

 

But in general, the difference between an elemental power as in what Toa have, and just a power is that elemental power does not specify how the element is used, so the user is far more free to use it however they imagine, and it's a bit more flexible in terms of power too; they can move existing elements, reshape them, or make new, or absorb existing (temporarily). None of that, especially the imagination requirement, is a good match to your average Kraata IMO.

 

"Just a power" by contrast has built-in rules that are usually very specific as to how the power works. For example, the Kanohi Garai, the Mask of Gravity, appears to be a subpower of Gravity that has special limits on it that a Toa of Gravity would not have. The psionics sub-power of telekinesis with the Kanohi Matatu is another great example, or one of the eight basic Kanoka powers of Freezing as a subpower of Ice.

 

In the case of a Rahkshi of Plasma, Electricity, or Sonics, the easiest ones to figure out probably, I would presume it's just "shoot elemental energy which turns into the element immediately". So they would only be able to shoot bolts/beams of the element (or so the theory goes). That of course gets tricky with Gravity and Magnetism, but I think they would just shoot the force out, attracting matching objects toward them (gravity weakly attracting everything toward the Rahkshi, and magnetism strongly attracting just metal and/or magnetic rock).

 

IMO, anyways.

[Dragonstar7]

Here you go. The Rahkshi on Mata Nui were Level Six. They easily defeated the Toa Nuva, who are the strongest Toa ever.

Not exactly easily. Just three of the Nuva defeated both Rahkshi Kaita, for example. But I don't know if the Kaita need Kraata(they probably do, but how), and how the levels affect them.

[bonesiii]

I don't know if the Kaita need Kraata(they probably do, but how), and how the levels affect them.

This is kind of off-topic, but without Kraata, Rahkshi are just empty suits of armor. Kaita are just combinations of whatever is in the mix. A Rahkshi Kaita without Kraata, aside from being impossible since empty Rahkshi have no minds to initiate the merger, would just be a larger empty suit of armor.

 

On-topic is how.

 

One option is that basic math would govern it. If one Level 1, one Level 7, and one 3, add those up and divide by three -- eleven, divides to 3.6. Most likely any decimals in Kraata level "snap" into quantized integer levels with no rounding up, IMO -- only when you push past 3.9 to 4.0 does the level go up, apparently, in terms of experience in the normal system. So the same rule should apply for Kaita, so we round down to Level 3.

 

Unless of course the three different powers remain unmixed, which would make sense too, not sure which is the case. If so, then whatever power is the 7 in the mix would be more effective, etc. Since these levels are based on actual learning experience, I would think the Kaita mind only has access to learning actually accomplished by its constituent Kraata, so I'd vote for this option.

[gunconvoy]

I always thought a Rahkshi was stronger than a Toa to a point. I mean they are defeatable, but some could beat a toa, if said toa is not careful.

[bonesiii]

I always thought a Rahkshi was stronger than a Toa to a point. I mean they are defeatable, but some could beat a toa, if said toa is not careful.

A randomly falling rock could defeat a Toa if the Toa isn't careful enough to spot it, so that's undoubtedly true. But neither does that mean that overall Rahkshi are stronger than Toa.

 

I'm not really sure what Greg would say to that, but my guess would be about equal, maybe a Rahkshi who's tops in every stat would be a little stronger, though. In general, equal or stronger enemies make for more fun stories rather than weaker, so yeah. (But usually not too strong or it's over before it starts, unless they hold back for a plausible reason like the Kardakuta, etc.)

[gunconvoy]

A randomly falling rock could defeat a Toa if the Toa isn't careful enough to spot it, so that's undoubtedly true. But neither does that mean that overall Rahkshi are stronger than Toa.

 

I'm not really sure what Greg would say to that, but my guess would be about equal, maybe a Rahkshi who's tops in every stat would be a little stronger, though. In general, equal or stronger enemies make for more fun stories rather than weaker, so yeah. (But usually not too strong or it's over before it starts, unless they hold back for a plausible reason like the Kardakuta, etc.)

 

Thats true, i mean, the right combonation of Rahkshi could just cause major trouble for every one. I just remember on the Mask of Light DVD on the Mata Nui guide. Takua said that a Rakshi was way stronger than any Toa. Not sure how cannon that is or not. But i would agree, they are very close, its just depending on what type of power the Rakshi has.

[Katuko]

Their size, choice of weapon and method of attack imply to me that Rahkshi are physically strong and rather fast, while a bit more limited in powers and strategic thinking when untrained. Many of them have powers that are mostly useful for blasting away, and from what we saw in Mask of Light they didn't actually use their powers for much else. The Lehrak tried to get in close and push Tahu down, for example, and the Rahkshi in general didn't have much trouble with punching holes in Matoran huts or batting away rocks.Regarding Takua's measure of strength, it should be noted that he had watched Onua get decked by a Vohrak, Pohatu and Tahu stopped by Tuhrak and Kuhrak respectively, Kopaka briefly knocked out by Panrahk, and in general the things could punch through rock and rip weapons out of their enemy's hands. Plus, they sunk Ta-Koro. Even though a Toa of Stone could do the same by tearing out the foundation, no Toa had ever done such a thing as far as Takua knew.

Edited by Katuko, Apr 30 2013 - 06:21 AM.

[The Lorax]

Also bear in mind that when Takua talked about Rahkshi being "stronger" he could well have meant physical strength, rather than overall effectiveness. Rahkshi are suits of living metal, as opposed to toa, who, while pretty muscly, are biomechanical beings with muscles to power their movements, so they don't quite measure up. Metal beats flesh as far as strength goes.

 

So while Rahkshi could truthfully be "stronger than any toa", that is only one aspect of their abilities. Toa generally have an advantage on the magical powers side of things (as discussed above), so that evens the playing field up a bit.