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Thornax Lethality


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34 replies to this topic

#1 Offline slifer3000

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Posted Apr 30 2013 - 08:23 PM

How lethal are thornax launchers firing a non-explosive thornax? Stronius held Strakk at 'gun' point, as if he could kill him with it in one shot, but they were still allowed in the arena, which made no sense if they could end a battle at the flip of a trigger.


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#2 Offline Aiwendil

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Posted Apr 30 2013 - 08:24 PM

I compare it to Paintballs. it hurts a lot, ad you wouldn't want to be shot at point blank with it, but it's not like you'd die if shot by it.


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#3 Offline slifer3000

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Posted Apr 30 2013 - 08:27 PM

So why did they look upon the Thornax launchers as killers? Remember that the convoy that Strakk told the Skrall was 'lost' ambushed the Skrall, and scared them off with Thornax fire.


Edited by slifer3000, Apr 30 2013 - 08:28 PM.

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#4 Offline Makuta_of_Oz

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Posted Apr 30 2013 - 08:30 PM

It's probably the threat of the Thornax being explosive that worries them.

 

How can you tell the difference between an explosive and non-explosive Thornax anyway?


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#5 Offline slifer3000

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Posted Apr 30 2013 - 08:32 PM

Did they use explosive ones for warfare where you are actually trying to kill someone?

 

Also, how did they store extra ammo?


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#6 Offline LordofBionicles

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Posted Apr 30 2013 - 08:41 PM

Maybe it´s got something to do with its color, since the Thornax has to be "mature" to be explosive, perhaps they don´t use the explosive ones on the arena only while travelling throught the desert or the wastelands


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#7 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted Apr 30 2013 - 09:06 PM

It's probably the threat of the Thornax being explosive that worries them. How can you tell the difference between an explosive and non-explosive Thornax anyway?

Non-explosive Thornax are considered ripe, and about as hard as a rock, I guess. Explosive ones are overripe, and the outer "skin" is ruptured.And they probably stored them in bags or packs or anything like hat.

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#8 Offline slifer3000

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Posted Apr 30 2013 - 09:34 PM

I imagined them along their legs. all they do is stick the end down their leg and pick it up again and vwalah u have a shot. 


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#9 Online Onarax

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Posted May 01 2013 - 04:41 AM

Thornax have spikes, which are probably rather painful, especially at close range.

 

Might even pierce skin.


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#10 Offline fishers64

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Posted May 01 2013 - 09:12 AM

Considering that the Glatorian/ Agori are fully organic beings, it's probably the equivalent of a metal ball of spikes being thrown at someone. They have armor, but shooting one of those at somebody's neck would probably not end well. 


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#11 Offline Katuko

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Posted May 01 2013 - 11:13 AM

Have you ever been hit by a soccer ball going at high speed? Now imagine that, but even harder, less bouncy, and potentially studded/spiked. Get hit in the chest with one of those, and you'll at the very least be wheezing for several minutes. Ribs may break if the thing packs enough force, which I dare say a launcher would give it. "Toys" like slingshots can also be lethal, and they fire at lower velocity, I believe. The Spherus Magna species have tougher bones than us humans, but they're not made of metal like Matoran Universe inhabitants. A good hit will rattle their insides well and proper.
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#12 Offline bonesiii

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Posted May 01 2013 - 11:20 AM

Details notwithstanding, it seems simple to me. If an attack (whether through impact or explosion) can knock you out, then you're unable to stop them from then killing you, or tying you up or throwing you in a prison, etc. So in a non-Arena situation, you would want to avoid being hit.

 

As for the specifics of Thornax physics the others are doing a good job already of discussing that so nothing really to add for now.


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#13 Offline Neelh

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Posted May 01 2013 - 01:12 PM

It's a spiky explosive fruit. Of course it will hurt.

 

Unless it's non-explosive. In that case, it's a spiky fruit. Of course it will hurt.


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#14 Offline Guurahk Entertainer

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Posted May 01 2013 - 01:37 PM

Stupid Vorox. :P

 

Anyway, it seems that the GA games are not only uncannon but unrealistic, then.


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#15 Offline gunconvoy

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Posted May 01 2013 - 02:11 PM

I guess it would be like the spike grenade from halo 3.


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#16 Online Onarax

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Posted May 01 2013 - 10:01 PM

The explosive ones might be similar, but the non-explosive probably aren't.

 

Although I wonder how they harvest the things.


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#17 Offline gunconvoy

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Posted May 01 2013 - 10:08 PM

The explosive ones might be similar, but the non-explosive probably aren't.

 

Although I wonder how they harvest the things.

They might just pick them off of trees, craft them to some point, and then fire them.


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#18 Online Onarax

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Posted May 01 2013 - 10:10 PM

Bit hard to pick them though.

 

And I doubt they're carved. They're naturally spiky.

 

Maybe they knock the things off the trees.


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#19 Offline gunconvoy

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Posted May 01 2013 - 10:12 PM

Bit hard to pick them though.

 

And I doubt they're carved. They're naturally spiky.

 

Maybe they knock the things off the trees.

May be they just fall naturally when ripe, and they just put that black band around them


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#20 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted May 01 2013 - 10:13 PM

Maybe they be careful and pick them.
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#21 Offline gunconvoy

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Posted May 01 2013 - 10:14 PM

If anything, i'm sure they would have special tools to do it


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#22 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted May 01 2013 - 10:20 PM

I don't think it would be that bad. It's just fruit. No doubt spiky, but enough to handle on their own.
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#23 Offline ZippyWharrgarbl

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Posted May 02 2013 - 12:41 AM

Okay, I have some references for all of you, which should help!

 

Mata Nui's Guide to Bara Magna has half a page on the Thornax plant on page 22. I'll skip through to the parts about its nature.

 

"When they ripen, the shells of a Thornax turn rock-hard. Then the fruit is harvested for use as ammunition in the Thornax launchers carried by Glatorian, Skrall, bone hunters and others. The spikes of a ripe Thornax are hard and sharp enough to do damage to Glatorian armor."

 

"When allowed to become over-ripe, Thornax become explosive. While the use of explosive ammunition is allowed in arenas only in special cases, Glatorian who need to travel the desert often carry a supply for protection. The Thornax is safe to use as long as the shell is not ruptured. Once it is launched and strikes an object, it explodes with a force powerful enough to shatter rock."

 

Next, in Raid on Vulcanus, pages 122-123, we see it in action!

 

"Fero snarled and fired his launcher. Ackar tried to dodge, but the Thornax caught his sword arm, tearing open his armour. Fero took aim for a second shot."

 

Later on, it mentions that Ackar had a "wounded arm", so it was also strong enough to harm his arm along with the armour. By the sounds of it, it was a non-explosive thornax.

 

When Stronius held Strakk at "gunpoint" with the launcher, it could have been deadly. A headshot from that distance could tear through the helmet and do extensive damage to Strakk's head. In the arena, I guess it's assumed you won't go for headshots or shoot from close range. Maybe it's against the rules?

 

I hope this helps!


Edited by ZippyWharrgarbl, May 02 2013 - 12:44 AM.

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#24 Offline bonesiii

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Posted May 02 2013 - 01:52 AM

I guess it's assumed you won't go for headshots or shoot from close range. Maybe it's against the rules?

 

I hope this helps!

Yeah -- quoting from the arena rules:

 

[2b] Matches to the death are forbidden.

 

[4a] Weapons allowed to be used are determined before the match by the villages involved in the fight.

 

[6] Violation of match rules by a Glatorian can be punished by suspension, exile, or a lifetime ban from the arena.

Presumably known skill at careful use of Thornax in non-lethal ways would be considered by the villages before the match as part of the Rule 4 process. I wonder how they train at it. Maybe with fake Thornax?


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#25 Offline ZippyWharrgarbl

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Posted May 02 2013 - 02:01 AM

Presumably known skill at careful use of Thornax in non-lethal ways would be considered by the villages before the match as part of the Rule 4 process. I wonder how they train at it. Maybe with fake Thornax?

 

Well, it HAS been mentioned that you can load Thornax launchers with rocks. That was how Agori were training with them in Raid on Vulcanus. They used rocks because they didn't want to wase Thornax ammunition, but you could see them being used for non-lethal purposes, too. Rocks probably would leave a bruise, but wouldn't tear through armour.


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#26 Offline gunconvoy

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Posted May 02 2013 - 07:08 AM

 

Well, it HAS been mentioned that you can load Thornax launchers with rocks. That was how Agori were training with them in Raid on Vulcanus. They used rocks because they didn't want to wase Thornax ammunition, but you could see them being used for non-lethal purposes, too. Rocks probably would leave a bruise, but wouldn't tear through armour.

Rocks sound worse than the actual fruit.


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#27 Offline bonesiii

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Posted May 02 2013 - 07:26 AM

I was thinking maybe hollow wooden or metal spheres or something. But rocks wouldn't puncture or explode, so yeah.


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#28 Offline ZippyWharrgarbl

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Posted May 03 2013 - 06:14 AM

Also, rocks don't have sharp, armour-tearing spikes. And apparently, according to... BS01, I think it was? Anyway apparently Glatorian have a metallic bone structure. So a rock would leave a bruise if it hit with enough force that the armour didn't absorb the impact, but wouldn't do all that much to a metallic skeleton. Something that could tear through metal armour, however, could do damage to it.

 

EDIT- Yeah, it was from BS01. I assume it was from an ask to GregF or something.


Edited by ZippyWharrgarbl, May 03 2013 - 06:21 AM.

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#29 Offline archivist_66

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Posted May 03 2013 - 07:02 AM

I think that a non-explosive Thornax could easily contuse somebody and severely break his/her armor. 


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#30 Offline bonesiii

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Posted May 03 2013 - 07:29 AM

Also, rocks don't have sharp, armour-tearing spikes. And apparently, according to... BS01, I think it was? Anyway apparently Glatorian have a metallic bone structure. So a rock would leave a bruise if it hit with enough force that the armour didn't absorb the impact, but wouldn't do all that much to a metallic skeleton. Something that could tear through metal armour, however, could do damage to it.

 

EDIT- Yeah, it was from BS01. I assume it was from an ask to GregF or something.

It was actually one of our Story Squad canonizations, shortly before the old forum ended. :)


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#31 Offline ZippyWharrgarbl

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Posted May 03 2013 - 07:58 AM

It was actually one of our Story Squad canonizations, shortly before the old forum ended. :)

 

Well, that's one mystery solved. Thanks, buddy! Oh, and while I have you on the topic: was it meant as being an implant, or naturally forming metallic skeletons? I think they were meant as naturally forming, because implants most likely won't work for a couple of reasons. But I'm not sure, and I want to be absolutely sure. Do you know?

 

On the topic, apparently boiled Thornax had softer skin. So you could use those for practice I guess, despite boiled thornax being considered gross and stinky. But that'd still be a waste of Thornax, so I reckon rocks are still the better option. Maybe not for firing at Agori, though, since they may lack the metal bone structure.


Edited by ZippyWharrgarbl, May 03 2013 - 08:02 AM.

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#32 Offline bonesiii

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Posted May 03 2013 - 08:06 AM

Naturally metallic. :) And metallic was clarified as not necessarily pure metal, but more so than anything else. It was based on the evidence that weapons were already said to be carved out of creatures' bones, yet were always shown as metallic. So it's natural to all the vertabrate life on Spherus Magna.

 

On the topic, apparently boiled Thornax had softer skin. So you could use those for practice I guess, despite boiled thornax being considered gross and stinky.

Makes sense. Assuming the spikes would be softened too. The stink factor would actually help, as it would provide motivation to avoid getting hit by it, making the practice more useful.


Edited by bonesiii, May 03 2013 - 08:08 AM.

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#33 Offline ZippyWharrgarbl

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Posted May 03 2013 - 08:25 AM

Thanks, bonesiii! Gosh, that's a relief, thinking of the implications of implants... and I realise that the question was a little off-topic, so thank you for answering it anyway! :D

 

Makes sense. Assuming the spikes would be softened too. The stink factor would actually help, as it would provide motivation to avoid getting hit by it, making the practice more useful.

 

The only problem is how apparently rare the Thornax are. Well, maybe not 'rare', but they're hard to find. So, as entertaining as shooting trainees with stinkbombs must surely be, it might not be a common occurrence.

...

Maybe just on special occasions. Like, when people feel like they need a bit of cheering up.


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#34 Offline gunconvoy

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Posted May 03 2013 - 09:41 AM

special shows may be? 


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#35 Offline ZippyWharrgarbl

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Posted May 03 2013 - 06:29 PM

special shows may be? 

 

Ah, yes. The annual Rookie Roundup, to celebrate the Glatorian that were in the final stages of their basic training. Or something. No one really remembers anymore. All that is remembered is that it is the best day of the year, week, or month, depending on the stores of Thornax.


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