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The Journey Ends: The Review Topic


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#1 Offline Kahi

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Posted May 02 2013 - 02:43 AM

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As I said in the actual topic, I was pretty displeased with BIONICLE's ending, so I decided to write my own take on how I would have ended it. Is it actually better? Maybe, maybe not. That's for you to decide, and I'd really appreciate any feedback you have, both from a story perspective and in my actual writing abilities. I took some things made from 2008 onwards and tweaked some and completely changed others. Other things I changed were originally confirmed before that, but they didn't make too much sense when I was researching them on BS01, so I rewrote them too. Here's the retcon list for the stuff I decided to change for this chapter. I'd advise reading the actual chapter first, though, to avoid any possible spoilers.

  • Kapura, not Velika, is the Disguised Great Being. Velika just doesn't make as much sense as Kapura did to be the Great Being. He was actually Greg's first choice, but apparently he was discarded because of the “mindwipe” given to the Matoran. I never saw why Greg had to invalidate his own answer in that instance, though. Just saying “Obviously, Great Being means that his memory doesn't get erased because” is a perfectly valid answer in my opinion.
  • Mata Nui did not “bring Makuta into being”. Makuta, in the main canon, is said to be destined for the second or third robot after the prototype; it's a little unclear which. Either way, having Mata Nui be the one to create Makuta just doesn't make sense. If he was made for the second robot, why was Mata Nui created first? And if he was meant for the third robot, why wouldn't the Great Beings directly create him themselves instead of leaving it to Mata Nui?

Any kind of review is welcome. Thanks for taking the time to read.


Edited by Kahi, Jul 22 2014 - 01:19 PM.

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#2 Offline Toatapio Nuva

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Posted May 02 2013 - 03:48 AM

Oh boy, I'm so glad someone is doing this. I undertook a project like this myself, but couldn't figure out a way to kill off Makuta without too gruesome violence (cause I strongly feel there should be as little violence as possible in the whole thing). I was genuinely surprised by the end of the prologue when Kapura said Makuta instead of Mata Nui. I was like "wow, he sure surprised me", which is always good.

 

I agree with your decision to make Makuta exist by hand of the Great Beings. It makes him more like a brother of Mata Nui and more something special. As for the disguised Great Being, I'm not really sure about that... I disliked the idea of having one at all in the first place. As for the writing, though, I still find it interesting to see what Kapura is up to. He makes as good a Great Being as Velika, that's for sure.

 

Keep it up. This is a great project and I'm looking forward to some more. If you like fan-made modifications to the actual canon, you can also check out my sig for a different take on the Ignition trilogy. ;)


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#3 Offline bohrokmaster

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Posted May 02 2013 - 11:44 AM

I love this story very much! It makes sense about Mata Nui's origin and I was surprised with the twist! I always believe that Mata Nui is one of the good guys. I wasn't sure about kapura as the disguised Great Being. :question:  Because I'm more used to him as a Ta-matoran villager. In canon, the Great Beings created Mata Nui as a robot. So in my opinion, you could have used one of the great beings and reveal their true forms as Glatorian. Or maybe Toa-like (As if they were cousins of the Toa species?)

 

Even though Glatorian are Gladiators on Bara Magna and the Toa Evolved/Transformed from Matoran species, I just feel it seems right.  And as I mentioned before in this topic I don't see the great beings as evil or scary looking. They are scientists, yes, and they have an interest for inventions. I have many ideas for the great beings. I see them as the 'Nuparu' species (the inventor of the Boxors) and the 'great beings' should be known as their nickname, not their species name.


Edited by bohrokmaster, May 02 2013 - 12:30 PM.

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#4 Offline Click

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Posted May 02 2013 - 12:29 PM

Well, I'm glad I read the review. With Kapura being the new Great Being, the beginning makes sense. Without knowing that, everything got really confusing. I thought they were building their own Great Spirit to escape from Teridax, which made the ending seem really weird. Anyways, this looks like an awesome idea. I can't wait to see how it goes.
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#5 Offline Athmos

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Posted May 02 2013 - 12:39 PM

Excellent twist at the end there. I was totally expecting it to be Mata Nui, and not Makuta.I will be following this very closely.
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#6 Offline Kahi

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Posted May 02 2013 - 05:06 PM

Thanks for the replies; I'll get back to them when I get back from work. I'm kind of rushing to post this now; sorry.


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  • There was no "simple game of Kolhii". Let's face it. That was kid's movie material. Greg has said at one point that if there was one thing he could retcon from the movies, that would be it and I fully agree with him. Takanuva and Makuta fought to the death, but Takanuva didn't kill Makuta. Instead, he relented and Makuta tried to use that opportunity to gain the upper hand, then turned the tables by plunging them into the pool.
  • Mata Nui did not care about the MU Inhabitants, nor did he automatically begin to once he had been cast out of his body. That first part is actually canon and is mentioned off-handedly in the actual Journey's End. I just included it here because it was never shown and barely mentioned, which is why many people would probably be surprised by it and think it was something I made up. I just brought those few lines to their logical conclusion, that Mata Nui still doesn't care about them/think about them all too much when he first lands on Bara Magna and just cares about regaining his power back.
  • Mata Nui doesn't actually remember off-hand all that has happened or that Makuta kicked him out as soon as he lands. Kind of a personal pet peeve there. Mata Nui's been asleep for about a thousand years. He woke up in a strange place and was immediately kicked out. It stands to reason he'd be more confused instead of automatically knowing what had happened and why he needed to get back.
  • Kapura was responsible for creating the Matoran. To me, it only makes sense that the Great Being that would eventually disguise himself within the universe be the one that created them in the first place. Additionally, he was also the one who created the template for all base programs of biomechanical beings, since the other GBs didn't see the need to reinvent the wheel, unknowing of the changes and innovations Kapura had made in his design.
  • Kapura purposefully made the Matoran (and subsequently every other race in the MU) to have emotions and become a fully sentient race. He disobeyed direct orders from the other Great Beings and gave his creations the power to think, learn and innovate, hoping that they would in turn become a sentient race and develop true emotions. The whole “it was just a glitch” thing never sat well with me. I'm fixing that now.

Edited by Kahi, Jul 22 2014 - 01:21 PM.

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#7 Offline Toatapio Nuva

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Posted May 03 2013 - 02:47 AM

I really like the assumption that Mata Nui did not magically remember everything after being evicted from his body. It kinda makes sens,e especially seeing that Onu-Metru is supposed to be a type of "memory archive" of Mata Nui. Nice twist there.

 

On the other hand, I really have to disagree with the Takanuva vs. Makuta battle. I mean, the Kolhii game showed the manipulative style of Makuta, and also his worldview of seeing everything and everyone as a game to be dominated by himself. It has much more depth to it than an all-out battle. Also, when Takanuva ponders his decision not to kill Makuta in your version, I get the feeling he's questioning his morality. I like to think the Toa follow the Toa code because they want to and because they feel moral obligations, rather than thinking "The Toa Code makes me do that".

 

The construction of chapter 1 is very confusing. You start with a short while go, then a few separate present day events (It was nice to see Lesovikk with Sarda, though) and after that you return back to the past. Personally, I think the last part, while very interesting, was also completely unnecessary. The Prologue was more than enough to explain the purpose of Makuta and the differences to the actual canon universe.

 

You decided to consider Takua the first Matoran... that is probably the first canon fact I would've ignored or changed in an epic of my own. :P

 

Still, despite the criticism, there were aspects I really enjoyed in the chapter, like Takanuva being able to win Rahkshi with ease. He's the Toa of Light, after all, and Rahkshi are productions of shadow. I'm looking forward to more of this, especially the robot battle.


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#8 Offline Takanuvainika

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Posted Jul 24 2013 - 06:28 PM

This is pretty cool but does this mean that the Great Beings created Makuta to pilot the first robot, the one that blew up and Mata-Nui to pilot the second? Hope you continue.


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#9 Offline Loganto The Bo-Matoran

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Posted Aug 07 2013 - 09:22 AM

that's why I have the soul stealers story podcast (not up yet) as makuta's backup. and then re-dawn of bionicle (story not complete) which links with hero factory and bionicle is reborn.


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#10 Offline ChroXumo

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Posted Aug 16 2013 - 01:00 PM

I'm quite liking this so far, Kahi. Are you planning on continuing it? (I assume that you are, but are limited by time constraints or something.)


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#11 Offline Ldd2000

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Posted Apr 30 2014 - 08:22 AM

This is amazing! I love how the makuta is talking like a robot all the time :) I can't wait to see more chapters!


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#12 Offline Ahktu

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Posted Apr 30 2014 - 01:14 PM

This is great! But please don't make Kapura turn bad. He's one of my favorites.


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#13 Offline Kahi

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Posted Jul 22 2014 - 03:52 PM

Hey guys! I was just looking over some old stuff I had done, any I realized that I both never actually finished this or got to the replies! While the story might take a bit to finish, I wanted to reply; I seriously do appreciate every reply.

 

Oh boy, I'm so glad someone is doing this. I undertook a project like this myself, but couldn't figure out a way to kill off Makuta without too gruesome violence (cause I strongly feel there should be as little violence as possible in the whole thing). I was genuinely surprised by the end of the prologue when Kapura said Makuta instead of Mata Nui. I was like "wow, he sure surprised me", which is always good.

 

I agree with your decision to make Makuta exist by hand of the Great Beings. It makes him more like a brother of Mata Nui and more something special. As for the disguised Great Being, I'm not really sure about that... I disliked the idea of having one at all in the first place. As for the writing, though, I still find it interesting to see what Kapura is up to. He makes as good a Great Being as Velika, that's for sure.

 

Keep it up. This is a great project and I'm looking forward to some more. If you like fan-made modifications to the actual canon, you can also check out my sig for a different take on the Ignition trilogy. ;)

 

Well, I will say that I think that violence is a natural part of wars, and this story is all about the impact of war. I don't think you can tell that kind of story without including some level of violence. But graphic violence for graphic's sake certainly isn't what I'm hoping to go for, although there is admitedly only so far you can go with text.

 

A big part of this was bringing back the "brothers" dynamic that Makuta and Mata Nui had at the very beginning. By the end, it made no real sense why they were called brothers, since they had absolutely no relation and since Mata Nui had technically created Makuta it was more of a "father-son" dynamic.

 

I completely get what you're saying with the disguised Great Being, because I was pretty iffy when that was released myself. But on the flipside, Kapura's weird abilties also had to be explained somehow. I have warmed up to the concept considerably seeing as how it does solve a mystery that's been around since the literal beginning of the franchise in 2001. The same can't be said for when it was revealed to be Velika, though; I felt that that was rather flimsy.

 

I love this story very much! It makes sense about Mata Nui's origin and I was surprised with the twist! I always believe that Mata Nui is one of the good guys. I wasn't sure about kapura as the disguised Great Being. :question:  Because I'm more used to him as a Ta-matoran villager. In canon, the Great Beings created Mata Nui as a robot. So in my opinion, you could have used one of the great beings and reveal their true forms as Glatorian. Or maybe Toa-like (As if they were cousins of the Toa species?)

 

Even though Glatorian are Gladiators on Bara Magna and the Toa Evolved/Transformed from Matoran species, I just feel it seems right.  And as I mentioned before in this topic I don't see the great beings as evil or scary looking. They are scientists, yes, and they have an interest for inventions. I have many ideas for the great beings. I see them as the 'Nuparu' species (the inventor of the Boxors) and the 'great beings' should be known as their nickname, not their species name.

 

Thank you! The mystery of the Great Beings is a little integrital to a lot of Bionicle lore. Not that it always needs to stay that way, mind you, but for where I'm going with the story, I think revealing their "true forms" might be a bit too much fanservice that takes away from the mystery. Mysteries generally need some type of resolution, but that's suited more to a continuation farther than what I'm planning to do with this.That being said, they are described as being humanoid, so I figure I can still use them as characters without actively describing what they look like.

 

Well, I'm glad I read the review. With Kapura being the new Great Being, the beginning makes sense. Without knowing that, everything got really confusing. I thought they were building their own Great Spirit to escape from Teridax, which made the ending seem really weird. Anyways, this looks like an awesome idea. I can't wait to see how it goes.

 

Looking back, letting the reader know that Kapura was a Great Being should have been a priority of mine. If/when I rewrite some of this, I'll be sure to change them.

 

Excellent twist at the end there. I was totally expecting it to be Mata Nui, and not Makuta.I will be following this very closely.

 

Thank you, and I'm very sorry there wasn't much to follow. =P

 

I really like the assumption that Mata Nui did not magically remember everything after being evicted from his body. It kinda makes sens,e especially seeing that Onu-Metru is supposed to be a type of "memory archive" of Mata Nui. Nice twist there.

 

On the other hand, I really have to disagree with the Takanuva vs. Makuta battle. I mean, the Kolhii game showed the manipulative style of Makuta, and also his worldview of seeing everything and everyone as a game to be dominated by himself. It has much more depth to it than an all-out battle. Also, when Takanuva ponders his decision not to kill Makuta in your version, I get the feeling he's questioning his morality. I like to think the Toa follow the Toa code because they want to and because they feel moral obligations, rather than thinking "The Toa Code makes me do that".

 

The construction of chapter 1 is very confusing. You start with a short while go, then a few separate present day events (It was nice to see Lesovikk with Sarda, though) and after that you return back to the past. Personally, I think the last part, while very interesting, was also completely unnecessary. The Prologue was more than enough to explain the purpose of Makuta and the differences to the actual canon universe.

 

You decided to consider Takua the first Matoran... that is probably the first canon fact I would've ignored or changed in an epic of my own. :P

 

Still, despite the criticism, there were aspects I really enjoyed in the chapter, like Takanuva being able to win Rahkshi with ease. He's the Toa of Light, after all, and Rahkshi are productions of shadow. I'm looking forward to more of this, especially the robot battle.

 

That's an interesting take on Makuta, but I don't get the vibe from him that he's the type of person that viewed everything as a game. I think he saw the universe for what it was: something to be used and to empower him to do bigger and greater things. He's not doing this just for the challenge, he's doing this for respect (that's why he was so jealous of Mata Nui in the beginning).

 

That being said, I don't believe that the Kohlii game showed his manipulative side at all. Makuta is a sharp and cunning mastermind, but he also has no experience with Kohlii. I don't think it's very in-character for him to try and bait Takanuva with something that he's not absolutely sure he would win. You could try to say that it was to manipulate Takanuva's emotions back into a time where he failed, but why would he choose the Kohlii match?

 

This was supposed to be a reveal into the story, but idk if I'll get everything done so I'll spoil it here: Makuta, in my redesign of the story, appears to Takanuva as Jaller. This form of him makes the most sense in story: it is extraordinarily recent and still haunting Takanuva, it's his best friend who literally died to save him, and it's an example of Makuta's might as Makuta's servants are ones that killed him. Makuta has already had presidence for appearing as a Matoran (with a Hau, no less, at the ending of MNOG), and this form enables him to constantly taunt Takua with perhaps his greatest failure.

 

I'm not sure about you, but the death of my best friend about ten minutes ago would probably haunt me more than just screwing up a shot on a sport about a week ago.

 

I see your problems with the pacing, though. That's good and I should probably fix that when I go back in for a rewrite. I will say that this story is just as much about Makuta as it is Mata Nui and the Toa, and that there is a lot more stuff that went on in the past that should set up where all these characters are going, so if I ever did finish this, hopefully the pacing might make more sense.

 

But I appreciate the criticism. I know it seems like I'm trying to deflect it, but you've brought up a lot of good points and I just wanted to share why I did with them what I did.

 

(Takua being the first Matoran is something I thought a little meh too but hey it didn't really harm anything so)

 

This is pretty cool but does this mean that the Great Beings created Makuta to pilot the first robot, the one that blew up and Mata-Nui to pilot the second? Hope you continue.

 

Makuta is being made for the actual robot universe that would eventually become Mata Nui.

 

And I hope I continue too =P Sorry to dash your hopes and dreams so far [/mesonak]

 

I'm quite liking this so far, Kahi. Are you planning on continuing it? (I assume that you are, but are limited by time constraints or something.)

 

I'm planning on it, but I've had just about a billion projects to work on since here and then. I have some extra chapters written up on some document somewhere, it just needs some editing and fleshing out at parts to make it work...one day!

 

This is amazing! I love how the makuta is talking like a robot all the time :) I can't wait to see more chapters!

 

Thank you! That could have been a hit or miss with a bunch of people, so I'm glad it worked out for you.

 

This is great! But please don't make Kapura turn bad. He's one of my favorites.

 

Kapura is not bad, but he has made a lot of mistakes, some to help others and some just because he was selfish and didn't think of the consequences. I think he's a character that really wants to think he's done the right thing but can't shake the feeling that he hasn't. Writing exclusively good characters and bad characters often lead to making everything about them bad or good, and I feel like writing stuff like that ends up more like you're trying to make some sort of aesop or social commentary. Not that those types of stories are inheritly bad, but they end up being heavy handed. So he's neither, and both at the same time.

 

Anyhow, sorry that it's taken so long for me to respond! I actually really do hope to finish this. I've got this and another "idea" in the works, but I tend to plot stuff out more than I actually write stuff out. The stuff I plan I personally really like, though =P.


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