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Kikanalo food mix up

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#1 Offline Toa Talo

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Posted May 03 2013 - 05:22 PM

I was reading some bionicle books earlier one was the rahi guide one and island of doom. When I noticed according to Bionicle: Rahi Beasts Kikanalo eat protodermis they dig up but in Island of Doom Balta I think tells Hakann that they eat plants before Hakann destroys them. So which is canon Kikanalo eating plants or protodermis or are the kikanalo on Voya Nui like a different sub species then the Metru Nui ones? On BSO1 there is no mention of the Voya Nui kikanalo eating plants. So can someone please clarify this.


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#2 Offline bonesiii

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Posted May 03 2013 - 06:18 PM

As far as I know, nobody ever noticed this or bothered to ask for a clarification. Most likely Greg simply forgot what he'd said previously when writing whichever came later. :)

 

We could easily chalk it up to habitat though. Po-Metru isn't the greatest place to find plants. Maybe plants are their preferred diet, yet a habitat like Po-Metru is also preferred and if they can't get both they'll go for the desert? And then dig up "protodermis". Voya Nui is somewhat barren but plants are closer by, and the right material might not be available for digging.

 

Though what type is meant by protodermis may be questionable... if it does say "eat" then it must be some edible type of solid proto, distinct from the protodermis of the sand/dirt/whatever. Otherwise I would assume liquid. And if it doesn't say "eat", then it may simply mean liquid proto -- water. So if that is right, it could mean "they dig for water" which makes sense in a desert.

 

Subspecies is possible, but seemingly unlikely..


Edited by bonesiii, May 03 2013 - 06:20 PM.

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#3 Offline ZippyWharrgarbl

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Posted May 03 2013 - 06:52 PM

I found the two books mentioned here! In 'Rahi Beasts', the Kikanalo page mentions that the Kikanalo churn up the ground and dislodge "bits of protodermis lost during the carvers' labours". It doesn't mention eating them, so I grabbed the more recent edition of the Bionicle Encyclopedia. That also mentioned digging up protodermis, but not eating it. So I don't think they actually eat the protodermis.

 

In 'Island of Doom', page 32, it doesn't specify Kikanalo. It merely says 'Rahi'.

 

"The area Hakann indicated was one of the few inland areas of the island that supported any vegetation. A thick bed of flowering plants somehow managed to survive the hostile terrain and flourish, much to the delight of the Rahi who came there to feed."


Edited by ZippyWharrgarbl, May 03 2013 - 06:54 PM.

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#4 Offline gunconvoy

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Posted May 03 2013 - 07:59 PM

As simple as my answer would be,

 

why  not both, i mean i'm sure the reason why both are different is because well Greg may of just forgot, but I say why not both. Animals tend to change the way they do stuff depending on location. So i just stand by that.


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#5 Offline The Lorax

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Posted May 03 2013 - 09:41 PM

The protodermis that kikanalo dig up would have to be both solid and edible. Here's from the BS01 page for catapult scorpions:

 

The Catapult Scorpions eat solid Protodermis, so their preferred hunting method is to follow Kikanalo herds and eat whatever their horns dig up.

 

If it's edible for catapult scorpions, it is reasonable to assume that it is also edible to kikanalo.


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#6 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted May 03 2013 - 10:00 PM

Unless they are a type of Rahi with a strong digestive system. Like, able to eat different types of food from nature.Or it could be like what gunconvoy said. Adaptation could play a bit part in their diet. Like on earth, similar species of animals live in different ecosystems and eat different types of food, but the species are very similar.
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#7 Online Onarax

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Posted May 04 2013 - 03:05 AM

Kikanalo probably eat some protodermis, seeing that they live in arid regions and all that, but they can probably consume vegetation as well.


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#8 Offline Toa Talo

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Posted May 04 2013 - 08:34 AM

I found the two books mentioned here! In 'Rahi Beasts', the Kikanalo page mentions that the Kikanalo churn up the ground and dislodge "bits of protodermis lost during the carvers' labours". It doesn't mention eating them, so I grabbed the more recent edition of the Bionicle Encyclopedia. That also mentioned digging up protodermis, but not eating it. So I don't think they actually eat the protodermis.

 

In 'Island of Doom', page 32, it doesn't specify Kikanalo. It merely says 'Rahi'.

 

"The area Hakann indicated was one of the few inland areas of the island that supported any vegetation. A thick bed of flowering plants somehow managed to survive the hostile terrain and flourish, much to the delight of the Rahi who came there to feed."

On a page before that when Hakann first arrives and talks to Balta and asks "What kind of rahi is that" Balta then tells him that they are Kikanalo and they eat plants when they can find them. Then Hakann disintegrates them and says they were blocking his view. Also why would the kikanalo dig something up the protodermis for no reason except to eat it which is what I assumed? Perhaps the kikanalo are omnivores but instead of eating plants and meat they eat protodermis and pants.


Edited by Toa Talo, May 04 2013 - 08:37 AM.

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#9 Offline Makuta Matata

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Posted May 04 2013 - 09:35 AM

I think that they eat both...


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#10 Offline archivist_66

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Posted May 04 2013 - 10:58 AM

Maybe Kikanalo was digging the earth in that "flowering" area to find some kind of protodermis?

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#11 Offline Toa Zaz

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Posted May 04 2013 - 10:59 AM

Mixed diet?


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#12 Offline PyroLizard Prime

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Posted May 04 2013 - 11:00 AM

In the bionicle rahi guide, it says that they eat plants, but dig up little scraps of protodermis with their horns while they're running, which catapult scorpions eat.


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#13 Offline Dralcax

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Posted May 04 2013 - 11:16 AM

Maybe they dig for root vegetables or something and dislodge proto in the process?
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#14 Offline ZippyWharrgarbl

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Posted May 05 2013 - 12:27 AM

I found the two books mentioned here! In 'Rahi Beasts', the Kikanalo page mentions that the Kikanalo churn up the ground and dislodge "bits of protodermis lost during the carvers' labours". It doesn't mention eating them, so I grabbed the more recent edition of the Bionicle Encyclopedia. That also mentioned digging up protodermis, but not eating it. So I don't think they actually eat the protodermis.

 

In 'Island of Doom', page 32, it doesn't specify Kikanalo. It merely says 'Rahi'.

 

"The area Hakann indicated was one of the few inland areas of the island that supported any vegetation. A thick bed of flowering plants somehow managed to survive the hostile terrain and flourish, much to the delight of the Rahi who came there to feed."

On a page before that when Hakann first arrives and talks to Balta and asks "What kind of rahi is that" Balta then tells him that they are Kikanalo and they eat plants when they can find them. Then Hakann disintegrates them and says they were blocking his view. Also why would the kikanalo dig something up the protodermis for no reason except to eat it which is what I assumed? Perhaps the kikanalo are omnivores but instead of eating plants and meat they eat protodermis and pants.

 

Oh, yes. Page 12-13 notes that Kikanalo eat plants "when they can find them". So they can eat plants. Sorry about that!

And perhaps the Kikanalo dig up protodermis to get at roots, as Dralcax suggested?

 

Actually, if we think about the fact that the catapult scorpions eat what they dig up, and the nature of the catapult scorpion itself- they're very hostile, and consider every other Rahi as a threat- it might be a sort of tradeoff between the Kikanalo and the catapult scorpions. The Kikanalo are pretty intelligent, and maybe they worked out that if they occasionally dug up some protodemis for the scorpions, the scorpions wouldn't try and attack them as much. The Rahi Beasts book remarks that the scorpions consider everything to be their enemy except Kikanalo.

 

Of course, that sounds rather convoluted, still.


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#15 Offline Toa Talo

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Posted May 05 2013 - 10:20 AM

I just assumed they dug it up to eat. I am gonna go with them digging for roots and other plants.


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#16 Offline bonesiii

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Posted May 05 2013 - 11:12 AM

It's a bit odd that it would say they actually dig, with horns, while running. Is that correct? Or is it just that the act of stampeding creates vibrations that make the bits come loose and maybe become exposed by claws scraping dirt away as a side effect of the leaping method of travel?

 

If the latter, it would seem to have nothing to do with Kikanalo eating, and it would just be the scorpions doing that. Even if they actually dig them up, while running, that's a very odd time to be eating... Am I missing something here? :P


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#17 Offline Toa Talo

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Posted May 05 2013 - 01:29 PM

Rahi Beasts says "Using their mighty horn, they churn up the ground, dislodging bits of protodermis lost during the carvers' labors.  The bionicle encyclopedia says They use their horns to dig up bits of protodermis left behind by the Po-Matoran carvers. Biosector01 says the same thing. So why would they dig it up I know catapult scorpions eat the protodermis they dig up unlike some relations between animals in the real world where some species of animals help each other the catapult scorpion does nothing for the kikanalo. Which still doesn't solve why the kikanalo dig it up. 


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#18 Offline bonesiii

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Posted May 05 2013 - 02:57 PM

So, those sources say nothing about digging while running? Maybe they run a while, stop to dig, then run somewhere else?


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#19 Offline ZippyWharrgarbl

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Posted May 06 2013 - 04:45 AM

So, those sources say nothing about digging while running? Maybe they run a while, stop to dig, then run somewhere else?

 

I was puzzled a little by that, too. No, the Rahi Beasts book (which I assume is the book mentioned in the original source) doesn't contain any reference of digging while running. It says that villages get stampeded in the process, but I think that may be due to Kikanalo not really caring where they dig.

 

Also, it'd be a little hard to dig with your horn (as is mentioned in the book) while running. You'd have to be able to turn your head 180 degrees around, I think.


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#20 Offline Toa Talo

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Posted May 06 2013 - 07:28 AM

I would be quite hard to dig while running using your horn. 


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#21 Offline fishers64

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Posted May 06 2013 - 12:33 PM

Maybe they stick their horn in the ground and push against the ground rapidly, plowing through the ground? 

 

Also, where is the source for this? I have never heard of this before. Sounds like a strange conjecture off the Kikanalo BS01 page which has no storyline basis. :P Although if it is true that Kikanalo stampedes dislodge proto, I would say it's because of the force of the stampede, not their horns, and they might dig up proto using their horns when they are not stampeding. Good?


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#22 Offline ZippyWharrgarbl

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Posted May 07 2013 - 04:24 AM

Maybe they stick their horn in the ground and push against the ground rapidly, plowing through the ground? 

 

Also, where is the source for this? I have never heard of this before. Sounds like a strange conjecture off the Kikanalo BS01 page which has no storyline basis. :P Although if it is true that Kikanalo stampedes dislodge proto, I would say it's because of the force of the stampede, not their horns, and they might dig up proto using their horns when they are not stampeding. Good?

 

I have no idea where "Kikanalo dig while running" came from, but "Kikanalo dig up protodermis with their horns" comes from the book 'Rahi Beasts', on the Kikanalo page. It mentions that Kikanalo "trample" villages in the process, but not them digging up protodermis with their stampedes. It could be that they're rushing into the village to dig at leftover protodermis in the ground.


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#23 Offline Toa Talo

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Posted May 07 2013 - 07:19 AM

I also have no idea where the digging while running idea came from.


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#24 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted May 07 2013 - 02:56 PM

I also have no idea where the digging while running idea came from.

Same here. It doesn't say in the Rahi Beasts book, yet people are just bringing it up, for some reason.


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#25 Offline Toa Talo

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Posted May 07 2013 - 03:48 PM

Maybe a misconception of the kikanalo stampedes?


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#26 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted May 07 2013 - 03:54 PM

Probably. Maybe they thought about both things, then combined the them together. I honestly don't know.


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#27 Offline fishers64

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Posted May 07 2013 - 06:15 PM

In the bionicle rahi guide, it says that they eat plants, but dig up little scraps of protodermis with their horns while they're running, which catapult scorpions eat.

 

According to this individual, it's from the Bionicle Rahi Guide. Does anyone have the book and can confirm/deny this? 


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#28 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted May 07 2013 - 09:46 PM

I have the book, and no, that's not what it says. It says:

Using their mighty horn, they churn up the rocky ground, dislodging bits of protodermis lost during the carvers' labors.

It says that, but nothing about doing it while stampeding. And nothing about that on the Catapult Scorpion page, just that they follow the Kikinalo for protodermis.

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#29 Offline bonesiii

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Posted May 08 2013 - 07:08 AM

Does it say they then eat it?

 

I'm wondering if they're churning it to look for other stuff, maybe like worms, or rootlike plants not visible on the surface, to eat, and the solid material comes up as a side effect. It makes sense the Catapult Scorpions would eat solid proto, since they shoot magma out of their tails. But if Kikanalo eat something else, it could just be a side effect.

 

Or maybe they both eat it and they churn up more than they need. :shrugs:


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#30 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted May 08 2013 - 02:41 PM

No, it just says they churn it up. Why, I don't know. Probably just a habit.


Edited by Takua Dragonstar7, May 08 2013 - 02:41 PM.

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#31 Offline Neelh

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Posted May 08 2013 - 03:23 PM

In the LoMN book, it says that the protodermis becomes dislodged during the stampedes.


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#32 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted May 08 2013 - 03:27 PM

It could've been by running. Like when you run, you kick up dirt or something. Because it would be hard to run while your head's on the ground.


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#33 Offline Toa Talo

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Posted May 08 2013 - 03:48 PM

But they don't run and dig, when stampeding they may also kick up proto but they also dig it with their horn but not when running.


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#34 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted May 08 2013 - 03:58 PM

That's what I'm trying to imply, just not at the same time. 


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#35 Offline bonesiii

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Posted May 08 2013 - 04:20 PM

Is it possible they do it purely to "befriend" the Catapult Scorpions, as a defense mechanism? We haven't factored that Greg said Kikanalo are unusually intelligent. Maybe they're doing something like what ants do with aphids (though a bit different); maybe they're intentionally feeding the scorpions, so they won't be enemies, and thus if any enemies of the Kikanalo come near they'll be attacked by magma-shooting giant bugs? :P

 

So it might not comment at all on how they get food. They might travel to the occasional oasis, grab fish in a canal, or dig edible things they eat up. Maybe even visit Ga-Metru's forested reasons when they're hungry, making the plant-eating bit fit them here too.


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#36 Offline Toa Talo

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Posted May 09 2013 - 07:29 AM

Ga-Metru has a forest?


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#37 Offline ZippyWharrgarbl

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Posted May 09 2013 - 07:47 AM

Is it possible they do it purely to "befriend" the Catapult Scorpions, as a defense mechanism? We haven't factored that Greg said Kikanalo are unusually intelligent. Maybe they're doing something like what ants do with aphids (though a bit different); maybe they're intentionally feeding the scorpions, so they won't be enemies, and thus if any enemies of the Kikanalo come near they'll be attacked by magma-shooting giant bugs? :P

 

So it might not comment at all on how they get food. They might travel to the occasional oasis, grab fish in a canal, or dig edible things they eat up. Maybe even visit Ga-Metru's forested reasons when they're hungry, making the plant-eating bit fit them here too.

 

I posted about that earlier. In fact, pretty much the exact same thing you just said. So, uh... yeah, that could be a legit thing. And good to see that someone's had the same idea as well!

 

As I said earlier, if we think about the nature of the catapault scorpion (it's hostile) and the fact that it considers everything BUT Kikanalo to be enemies, it'd seem pretty smart to be feeding a creature to keep it on friendly terms with you.


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#38 Offline bonesiii

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Posted May 09 2013 - 08:20 AM

Ga-Metru has a forest?

Yep; see here:

 

http://biosector01.c...ru_Nui#Ga-Metru

 

Is it possible they do it purely to "befriend" the Catapult Scorpions, as a defense mechanism? We haven't factored that Greg said Kikanalo are unusually intelligent. Maybe they're doing something like what ants do with aphids (though a bit different); maybe they're intentionally feeding the scorpions, so they won't be enemies, and thus if any enemies of the Kikanalo come near they'll be attacked by magma-shooting giant bugs? :P

 

So it might not comment at all on how they get food. They might travel to the occasional oasis, grab fish in a canal, or dig edible things they eat up. Maybe even visit Ga-Metru's forested reasons when they're hungry, making the plant-eating bit fit them here too.

 

I posted about that earlier. In fact, pretty much the exact same thing you just said. So, uh... yeah, that could be a legit thing. And good to see that someone's had the same idea as well!

 

As I said earlier, if we think about the nature of the catapault scorpion (it's hostile) and the fact that it considers everything BUT Kikanalo to be enemies, it'd seem pretty smart to be feeding a creature to keep it on friendly terms with you.

Lol, sorry I missed it then. :P


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#39 Online Toatapio Nuva

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Posted May 09 2013 - 09:38 AM

Ga-Metru has a forest?

 

A large park, to be more precise. It's shown briefly in Web of Shadows.


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#40 Offline Toa Talo

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Posted May 09 2013 - 07:39 PM

I guess that makes more sense.


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