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Artahka, Karzahni, and the Mask of Creation


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17 replies to this topic

#1 Offline CrunchbiteNuva

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Posted May 15 2013 - 09:08 AM

I was reading about the Mask of Creation. So Artakha and Karzahni had a competition over this mask, which Artakha won. I was wondering what type of competition this was? Was it like an Olympic-sorts competition with various contests of speed, strength, building, etc.? or was it a brawl/fighting competition?

 

I also want to ask about Artakha and Karzahni and what you guys might think are their philosophy toward building and creating.


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#2 Offline Electric Turahk

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Posted May 15 2013 - 09:20 AM

It was indeed a fight that decided who got the mask.~|ET|~
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#3 Offline Aiwendil

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Posted May 15 2013 - 11:24 AM

I'm inclined to think that it was a test of who could build the best, decided by the GBs. I mean, if Artahka could build something well without the Mask of Creation, just think about what he could build with it


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#4 Offline Baron Von Nebula

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Posted May 15 2013 - 04:23 PM

Presumably it involved a number of tasks; I think a Matoran-fixing/building task was specifically mentioned as one which Artahka defeated Karzahni in.


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#5 Offline Makuta Almanax

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Posted May 18 2013 - 03:15 PM

I highly doubt "Matoran Fixing" would have been part of the tests, considering how poor a job Karzahni does of it. It wouldn't make sense to set the loser of such a test on a mission to rebuild the broken, would it? In fact, they could have just banished Karzahni and made something/one better to replace him. Honestly the GBs seemed to be quite idiotic in retrospect.


Edited by Makuta Almanax, May 18 2013 - 03:15 PM.

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#6 Offline Tanu Toa of Earth

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Posted May 30 2013 - 07:20 AM

I highly doubt "Matoran Fixing" would have been part of the tests, considering how poor a job Karzahni does of it. It wouldn't make sense to set the loser of such a test on a mission to rebuild the broken, would it? In fact, they could have just banished Karzahni and made something/one better to replace him. Honestly the GBs seemed to be quite idiotic in retrospect.

Yeah... I personally never understood how that made sense.


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#7 Offline Chro

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Posted May 30 2013 - 12:02 PM

If, as you've said, a Matoran fixing/fixing/etc. contest was part of their competition, then I have an idea. Perhaps Karzahni used to be pretty good at that, though obviously not as good as Artakha... then once he lost and Artakha was given that job, Karzahni sort of gave up and stopped trying...?

That said, I agree that a contest that involved Matoran fixing would be unfairly geared towards Arty instead of Karz... 

 

It was indeed a fight that decided who got the mask.

I thought this (what ET said) was correct, but of course (in this topic) I've heard completely otherwise; does anyone have any specific quote or anything to prove it either way?


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#8 Offline Toa Smoke Monster

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Posted May 30 2013 - 12:39 PM

I always believed that Artakha and Karzahni fought each other for the Mask, and the former won it.


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#9 Online Toatapio Nuva

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Posted May 30 2013 - 12:55 PM

Greg said it was a fight. As in combat.


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#10 Offline CrunchbiteNuva

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Posted Jun 03 2013 - 10:42 PM

If, as you've said, a Matoran fixing/fixing/etc. contest was part of their competition, then I have an idea. Perhaps Karzahni used to be pretty good at that, though obviously not as good as Artakha... then once he lost and Artakha was given that job, Karzahni sort of gave up and stopped trying...?

That said, I agree that a contest that involved Matoran fixing would be unfairly geared towards Arty instead of Karz... 

 

It was indeed a fight that decided who got the mask.

I thought this (what ET said) was correct, but of course (in this topic) I've heard completely otherwise; does anyone have any specific quote or anything to prove it either way?

I still think a contest regarding creating/building something would make more sense in a competition for the Mask of Creation. If not building Matoran, then most likely building weapons and then using built weapon in a fight against each other. I'd like to think that it was also a battle of Creation philosophy also. What's the purpose of Creation or weapons according to Artakha or Karzahni? That could decide who was the victor and possibly explain Karzahni's diminished ability to create (pulling a Strakk) after Artakha won the Mask. 


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#11 Offline Captain Caboose

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Posted Jun 03 2013 - 10:45 PM

I thought I remember reading that it said something about a straw contest. Where whoever had the biggest won. I'm probably thinking of something else.


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#12 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jun 03 2013 - 10:52 PM

If, as you've said, a Matoran fixing/fixing/etc. contest was part of their competition, then I have an idea. Perhaps Karzahni used to be pretty good at that, though obviously not as good as Artakha... then once he lost and Artakha was given that job, Karzahni sort of gave up and stopped trying...?

That said, I agree that a contest that involved Matoran fixing would be unfairly geared towards Arty instead of Karz... 

 

It was indeed a fight that decided who got the mask.

I thought this (what ET said) was correct, but of course (in this topic) I've heard completely otherwise; does anyone have any specific quote or anything to prove it either way?

I still think a contest regarding creating/building something would make more sense in a competition for the Mask of Creation. If not building Matoran, then most likely building weapons and then using built weapon in a fight against each other. I'd like to think that it was also a battle of Creation philosophy also. What's the purpose of Creation or weapons according to Artakha or Karzahni? That could decide who was the victor and possibly explain Karzahni's diminished ability to create (pulling a Strakk) after Artakha won the Mask. 

The latter makes some sense if this is all you consider, but you'd think it would expose Karzahni's flaws. As for the former, I don't think skill in building could be involved at all. It really wouldn't be needed at all because the mask itself would supply that, and Karzahni's being so bad at it would probably also be obvious.


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#13 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jun 03 2013 - 10:59 PM

Hey GregF,I got a single question for you today. Was the battle between Artakha and Karzhani for the Mask of Creation an actual physical fight or is the term "battle" more of a metaphor for something else?Thanks in advance.

Actual physical fight.

 

GBs are weird. Almost seems that they didn't care who got the mask, as if they were really tired of making decisions like this.


Edited by fishers64, Jun 03 2013 - 11:35 PM.

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#14 Offline Chro

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Posted Jun 03 2013 - 11:41 PM

Perhaps the battle was to test their character against each other (in addition to their physical battle prowess, I mean). A fight, as it was, could easily have displayed their personalities or tactics, such as Karz maybe pulling a Strakk (thanks Crunchbite ;) ) or Artahka being all honorable and stuff... :lol:


Edited by Chro, Jun 03 2013 - 11:41 PM.

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#15 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jun 04 2013 - 12:01 AM

But the Great Beings had just created them with the personality they saw fit, and they did not know (and walked away still not knowing) that their creations had gained freewill. A test of character doesn't really fit into that. It sounds more like they just saw it as a test play, like what game designers do (having done many myself I identify with this). They would naturally want to make sure their "nanotech" beings were able to protect such a powerful mask once they got it, so a battle makes sense.

 

It may be a bit disappointing that way (I would kinda agree; I skipped over it almost entirely except a passing mention in my history retelling :P), but from the Great Beings' perspective it seems to make the most sense.

 

To be fair though, making sure the personalities worked as they intended would make sense with that too, but I just can't see them walking away from that thinking Karzahni is okay. He was really, really, really awful. :P It makes a lot more sense to me that the battle didn't test personality at all other than what little a fight would show as a side effect; that it was just whoever beat who, showing themselves more effective at protecting the mask. That way the loser's lack of skill and lousy personality don't necessarily show up but the Great Beings' needs are satisfied as far as they could have imagined they needed to test for at the time.

 

In other words, if Karzahni pulled a Strakk or anything else remotely obvious like that, surely they would have just seen him as glitching and made someone else to fill his role instead.


Edited by bonesiii, Jun 04 2013 - 12:02 AM.

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#16 Offline LewaLew

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Posted Jun 04 2013 - 01:25 PM

But the Great Beings had just created them with the personality they saw fit, and they did not know (and walked away still not knowing) that their creations had gained freewill. A test of character doesn't really fit into that. It sounds more like they just saw it as a test play, like what game designers do (having done many myself I identify with this). They would naturally want to make sure their "nanotech" beings were able to protect such a powerful mask once they got it, so a battle makes sense.

 

It may be a bit disappointing that way (I would kinda agree; I skipped over it almost entirely except a passing mention in my history retelling :P), but from the Great Beings' perspective it seems to make the most sense.

 

To be fair though, making sure the personalities worked as they intended would make sense with that too, but I just can't see them walking away from that thinking Karzahni is okay. He was really, really, really awful. :P It makes a lot more sense to me that the battle didn't test personality at all other than what little a fight would show as a side effect; that it was just whoever beat who, showing themselves more effective at protecting the mask. That way the loser's lack of skill and lousy personality don't necessarily show up but the Great Beings' needs are satisfied as far as they could have imagined they needed to test for at the time.

 

In other words, if Karzahni pulled a Strakk or anything else remotely obvious like that, surely they would have just seen him as glitching and made someone else to fill his role instead.

Originally, Karzahni wasn't insane or evil, right? He was just bad at his job, which is why he gave the Voya Nui Matoran weapons--to compensate for his failure. I believe he even sent them away to the Southern Continent because he regretted his mistakes, and didn't want to be reminded of it. It was only later that he started imprisoning Matoran.


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#17 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jun 04 2013 - 02:21 PM

Right -- he would not have done anything (most likely) that the GBs would see as glitching or that might tip them off to freewill. So the problem with the test of building idea is primarily that it would just show his lack of skill. A battle seems to remove these difficulties to me, even if it seems a bit primitive for Great Beings to think of.


Edited by bonesiii, Jun 04 2013 - 02:21 PM.

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#18 Offline Cosmic Titan

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Posted Jun 16 2013 - 02:10 AM

I'm pretty sure I remember reading that part of the story and at the time I pictured an all out fight for the mask. The mask was something they both wanted immensely and so I pictured them doing whatever they could to win it.


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