What do you think about the skeletons

[Mr. Cup of Fail]

We have the skeleton body build from 2011 to now and i was thinking of what you guys think about the skeleton. The parts of the skeleton are great and the hero (not the xl) is easy for a lot of people to build but it is starting to get old, we seen a lot of recolor and some old part brought back but not a lot of new stuff and the build is not evolving.

 

(Oh boy time for some history)

In Bionicle the Toa's was evolving from 2002 to 2006 then mostly stay with both inika ,piraka and another body that pohatu and kongu have (but with differnt limbs) build from 2007 to 2008 (plus with the villains body in 2008) , then with the glatorian they just stay with the inika body in 2009. In 2010 with the stars we got the Matoran body plus with the Matorans they was evolving from 2001 to 2008.

(Now time for Hero Factory)

In 2010 with the Lego new Hero Factory they gotten new body plus with the villains they added Bionicle parts in the villains, Then in 2011 we gotten the new skeleton build and LEGO made great build with it in 2011 Savage Planet. Then in 2012 to 2013 they still use the skeleton build.

 

To me it is starting to get old and i do think they should evolve to something new. So what do you think about the skeleton.

[Lyichir]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.The new skeleton is well-suited to the Hero Factory building system. And since unlike most Bionicle torsos, it doesn't serve the dual purpose of armor AND skeleton, the aesthetics of it don't need to change as frequently, since it can just be covered up with a new shell. It has been evolving a bit, too, what with the introduction just last summer of a smaller torso beam (which would have been a godsend back in the days of Matoran-sized builds).

 

Is there still room for improvement? Sure. Ideally, a two-part torso beam could be introduced at some point to incorporate waist articulation (something that has been missing in all but a few Lego action figure sets). But I think Bionicle has trained its fans to expect structural elements to be replaced by new parts every two or three years, and now that Hero Factory has introduced a system that can finally be customized to a large extent while retaining core components, it's about time we divorced ourselves of the notion that every other year of sets needs a new build. Any further changes to the Hero Factory building system can easily take the form of small tweaks, rather than a radical change like was common in the early years of Bionicle.

[Kanakalackin]

I agree with Ly, LEGO finally found a system that doesn't break very easily. So, do they dare try to modify it and possibly have a repeat of 05-'10? If they could pull off a parts pack full of BIONICLE parts remoulded with the new HF system, then a lot more people would be insanely happy (like Vezon!).

[Aanchir]

There is one really significant way that the Hero Factory skeleton could really be improved in my opinion, and that would be to have separate parts for the upper and lower torso beam, with a waist joint in the middle. But frankly, that would mean cutting down on its usable connection points somewhat, so in some contexts it would be less of an improvement. And I don't think it's an improvement the Hero Factory skeleton urgently needs (we got by just fine without waist articulation in BIONICLE sets besides Pridak and Maxilos); it'd just be a cool thing to have eventually.What I'd want to see sooner would be separate armor pieces for the upper and lower torso: A symmetrical armor piece to attach to the crotch of the current Hero Factory torso beam, and another piece that connects to the traditional central attachment point for a torso shell. This would be massively useful for MOCing, because it would make custom armor a lot easier if you didn't have to worry about leaving a torso beam's crotch exposed. It would also be useful for creating MOCs with waist articulation, since unlike a one-piece torso shell, a two-piece torso shell would allow the armor on the upper and lower torso to move separately. The best part is that this would not really require any changes to the basic Hero Factory skeleton.Also, it'd be nice to have a foot piece with the ball cup one module lower, so that it could be used with a friction joint on larger models without giving the model awkwardly-high ankles like Furno XL and Stormer XL. It'd also have decent proportions on a small or medium-sized figure, with or without a friction joint. Since the ball cup would not stick out as far, such a foot piece could be used as an armor piece without seeming obtrusive, similar to how the Toa Metru foot was used on Brutaka's legs. And finally, this is something that can't be easily achieved with existing pieces without hindering posability, unlike the proportions of the current Hero foot element which could be replicated with a custom construction using a traditional Y-joint.

[northmarch]

Personally I see it as bland, hollow and limiting. That being said, it serves it's purpose well in the HF system.

[Ziontyro Metalhead]

The skeleton parts are useful for moccing. Sure, it would be nice to see new parts, but there isn't much need to change the skeleton. New armor molds are fine.

[Mr. Cup of Fail]

The skeleton parts are useful for moccing. Sure, it would be nice to see new parts, but there isn't much need to change the skeleton. New armor molds are fine.

Ya new armor will be good but with the skeletons it will later be like the Inika body and just start to get sick. For MOC maker it ok but for others hardly.

Edited June 16, 2013 by ShadowWolfHount

[Aanchir]

 

The skeleton parts are useful for moccing. Sure, it would be nice to see new parts, but there isn't much need to change the skeleton. New armor molds are fine.

Ya new armor will be good but with the skeletons it will later be like the Inika body and just start to get sick. For MOC maker it ok but for others hardly.

 

I personally never got tired of the Inika build. Frankly it was nice to have a torso that didn't become obsolete two years after it was introduced. Plus it was great to have a torso piece that wasn't so limited to use as a torso for a certain scale of figure: the 2006-2008 titans did a great job demonstrating how it could be used as a torso element on larger figures or (in Gadunka's case) on non-humanoid figures. Even among canister sets, there were characters like Mantax, Strakk, and Skrall showing how it could be used uniquely.

[ToaJaller77]

I Personally LOVE the skeleton.

[~garnira returns~]

Eh, I don't hate it, but it is a little bland.

[slifer3000]

I don't like how every one of them have this same design and frame, Bionicle would never have done that... oh wait...

[PDPsi HAN]

Waist articulation would be nice, but that would probably require a new look at the potential new armour pieces for the torso and waist.

[man774]

if they could weld torso pieces together so that you can put armor on the backs, that'd be great.

 

 

 

and gears. Gears would be amazing. I don't know how they could make it work. To be honest, I'd be completely satisfied if they put a pin/axel on the back and stuck a gear on it.

 

At first I wasn't too impressed, but then I found out TLG had switched to an improved version of the circular y-joint instead of the square y-joint. Many of my original circular y-joints (toa metru "hand") have broken, 95% of my square ones have broken (glatorian /iron man head), and 2 of the new ones (2011 hf skeleton)have broken. And none of my shell armor pieces have broken, despite all the stress the go under because of my excessive rebuilding. Kudos, TLG.

Edited July 18, 2013 by man774

[Lyichir]

if they could weld torso pieces together so that you can put armor on the backs, that'd be great.

 

 

 

and gears. Gears would be amazing. I don't know how they could make it work. To be honest, I'd be completely satisfied if they put a pin/axel on the back and stuck a gear on it.

 

At first I wasn't too impressed, but then I found out TLG had switched to an improved version of the circular y-joint instead of the square y-joint. Many of my original circular y-joints (toa metru "hand") have broken, 95% of my square ones have broken (glatorian /iron man head), and 2 of the new ones (2011 hf skeleton)have broken. And none of my shell armor pieces have broken, despite all the stress the go under because of my excessive rebuilding. Kudos, TLG.

 

Weld torso pieces together to add back armor? I think this is the part you're looking for. It's used on most of the Chima Ultrabuild sets for that exact purpose.

 

I don't think we're likely to see gear functions return to action figure sets for a while, but Bruizer and Scarox's functions come close, just sans the gears.

[Unauthorized Autobiography]

While I do agree, I think it's staying until it gets more boring than it is already. HF is aimed to a younger audience, which seems to love the style. The simplish, rubbish style tha- I think I've made my point clear.

[Aanchir]

While I do agree, I think it's staying until it gets more boring than it is already. HF is aimed to a younger audience, which seems to love the style. The simplish, rubbish style tha- I think I've made my point clear.

It's not really aimed at a considerably younger audience, though. It's aimed at more or less the same audience as BIONICLE, but in Hero Factory's case it's actually hitting its target with a bit more accuracy. BIONICLE was supposed to appeal to those younger fans as well, but it didn't do a particularly good job of it towards the end.Overall, I'd say that Hero Factory's building style isn't less complex than BIONICLE's in any way that truly makes it worse. Complexity can be a good thing in some contexts, but not when it means that you have to be an extremely skilled MOCist to produce anything that is both unique and decent-looking. Imagine, for a moment, an action figure toy that is like BIONICLE but instead of using pins and axles, it uses screws, nuts, and bolts that you need special tools to assemble and disassemble. In a sense, that kind of toy is to BIONICLE as BIONICLE is to Hero Factory. It's "more complex", but as a result, far less intuitive and efficient for builders of any age.An average Hero Factory set is hardly any less complex than a typical BIONICLE set at a comparable price point. For instance, compare Hero Factory and BIONICLE sets at a $9 price point (not adjusting for inflation). Toxic Reapa and Stringer have about the same piece count as the average Piraka. Jawblade has the same piece count as any Rahkshi. Surge, Nex, XT4, and Evo don't have particularly impressive piece counts, but they're still more impressive than any Vahki. And note that with almost any Hero Factory set (besides a few like Witch Doctor), fewer of the pieces that make up that piece count will be "filler" like pins and axles.At the $13 price point, this year's Stormer has more pieces than any BIONICLE set but Mistika Toa Tahu, and Jetbug and this year's Surge have more than any BIONICLE set but Mistika Toa Tahu and Phantoka Toa Pohatu. And as you go down the list you consistently see a pretty even distribution of BIONICLE and Hero Factory sets. Raw-Jaw, one of my favorite sets from 2011, has more pieces than Vorox or Skrall. Last year's Bulk and Voltix sets have more pieces than any of the Glatorian or Glatorian Legends.I don't mean to imply that piece count is all there is to complexity. But truth be told, what BIONICLE sets' skeletons gain in complexity in some places, they lose in others. BIONICLE torso skeletons (at least, after 2003) are typically made of separate pieces for the upper and lower body, whereas Hero Factory torso skeletons typically use a single torso beam to which all four limbs are attached, with shells attached for volume and detail. This means BIONICLE torsos can be extended to any length using Technic beams, which is not as viable an option with Hero Factory torsos. But BIONICLE lower legs are typically just a single specialized and decorative beam, whereas Hero Factory sets' lower legs typically include both a shell and a beam unless a lean, bony look is desired.A BIONICLE beam typically has attachment points for shells on the front and back only, whereas the single ball in the center of a 5M or larger Hero Factory beam can be used to attach shells to all four sides, while still having Technic attachment points on any 6M or larger beams. A BIONICLE torso shell (e.g. an Inika chest plate) and a BIONICLE limb shell (e.g. an Inika thigh armor piece) are rarely interchangeable without creating some kind of Technic construction to merge them together. Hero Factory limb and torso shells are typically interchangable without any additional pieces.Overall, a lot of Hero Factory's supposed "simplicity" results in greater freedom for builders. I can hardly see how that's a bad thing.

[Hexann]

There is one really significant way that the Hero Factory skeleton could really be improved in my opinion, and that would be to have separate parts for the upper and lower torso beam, with a waist joint in the middle. But frankly, that would mean cutting down on its usable connection points somewhat, so in some contexts it would be less of an improvement. And I don't think it's an improvement the Hero Factory skeleton urgently needs (we got by just fine without waist articulation in BIONICLE sets besides Pridak and Maxilos); it'd just be a cool thing to have eventually.

So, I'm not the only one who's desperately wanted this....

[Kumata]

It is pretty boring when it's been used several years in a row, and like others said it does bring to mind the overuse of the Inika torsos in Bionicle's later years, but I don't have a problem with it in HF. Maybe because I'm not as emotionally invested in the sets. But they still have plenty of MOCing potential, I'd only really dislike a torso piece if it were only able to be used in one way (*cough*Visorak*cough*)

[Aanchir]

Incidentally, I just put together this concept drawing for a three-piece Hero Factory torso build with waist articulation. To keep things short, it adds two points of waist articulation to a standard 7x9 torso skeleton. The left and right drawings are the same part from two different angles, and it lets you attach a torso shell, ball cup, or cross axle to both the front and the back. However, this part is not essential: a 5M or 3M double ball cup will provide the same points of articulation, but just won't offer as many useful connection points.Hero Factory Part Concepts by Aanchir, on FlickrI figured I'd share this here since it doesn't exactly deserve its own topic (it's neither art nor a MOC nor a custom part I've physically crafted, after all). Hope you guys like it!

[Van Hohenheim]

well, I personally don't really like them. they're kind of bland to me. I would prefer something more complicated, but that's just me.

[Indigogeek]

It's too boring. I know they were establishing a new look for hf, but we need more movement. I would personally love to see the torso not be one piece, and have some movement.

[Aanchir]

It's too boring. I know they were establishing a new look for hf, but we need more movement. I would personally love to see the torso not be one piece, and have some movement.

I'd like more movement also. But at the same time, that's not a flaw of the Hero Factory skeletons specifically. After all, how many BIONICLE sets had waist articulation? The answer is two: Pridak and Maxilos, no others.I think one of the reasons waist articulation is avoided in sets is that with greater articulation comes less stability. One of the biggest criticisms of Pridak as a set was the fact that his upper body would often flop all over the place: after a certain amount of use, the friction between the ball and ball cup was not enough to support the upper body's weight. Maxilos didn't have this problem to the same extent because he had functional pistons supporting his waist.In any case, whatever the reason, the lack of waist articulation in Hero Factory sets is hardly a fault inherent to that building system, considering BIONICLE had the exact same problem. It is, however, a problem that I'd like to one day see adjusted. It's not urgent, by any means - as BIONICLE fans we did without waist articulation for a long, long time - but it is something I'd like to see addressed eventually.