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Bionicle Websites to be Shut Down


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#121 Offline Meiko

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Posted Jun 01 2013 - 08:21 PM

 

To be honest I rarely used the Bionicle website, and never found any fun or engagement on the site. I used Bioniclestory even less so. I never read the serials, except maybe the first sentence on one while patrolling pages on BS01. And even since Bionicle reached its end in 2010, I don't even see a need in going to the sites, really.  :confused:  

 

 

 

I agree with CC. I think, Kohran, that Bionicle is alive with the fandom, if not so much with the official sites or products. If Bionicle was well and truly completely dead, then why would we be here still? :lol:

Hero Factory. Lego in general. A close-knit community.

 

If you are under the illusion that Bionicle is not discussed here, then you are quite mistaken. In fact, my primary reason for being here is to discuss Bionicle; I suspect I'm not alone.

 

Of course Bionicle is discussed here. So are other things. Just because YOU don't come here for those things doesn't mean BZPower would screech to a halt even if all Bionicle discussion ceased entirely. Presuming "Bionicle is still alive if BZP is" ignores the fact that many members have moved past Bionicle's end, and have no interest in prolonging its "life".

 

I can vouch for this. The last time I had a real discussion about Bionicle here was... never, actually. Even on the old forums, most anything I posted was in LEGO General Discussion.

 

I had a real discussion about Bionicle here yesterday, actually. If you don't want to discuss Bionicle, that's your business, but I personally doubt that either of you are the majority of this website's population. 

I didn't say I was, nor did I try to assert that. I'm one of many, and I just said that I agreed with Lyichir.


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#122 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jun 01 2013 - 08:26 PM

 

 

To be honest I rarely used the Bionicle website, and never found any fun or engagement on the site. I used Bioniclestory even less so. I never read the serials, except maybe the first sentence on one while patrolling pages on BS01. And even since Bionicle reached its end in 2010, I don't even see a need in going to the sites, really.  :confused:  

 

 

 

I agree with CC. I think, Kohran, that Bionicle is alive with the fandom, if not so much with the official sites or products. If Bionicle was well and truly completely dead, then why would we be here still? :lol:

Hero Factory. Lego in general. A close-knit community.

 

If you are under the illusion that Bionicle is not discussed here, then you are quite mistaken. In fact, my primary reason for being here is to discuss Bionicle; I suspect I'm not alone.

 

Of course Bionicle is discussed here. So are other things. Just because YOU don't come here for those things doesn't mean BZPower would screech to a halt even if all Bionicle discussion ceased entirely. Presuming "Bionicle is still alive if BZP is" ignores the fact that many members have moved past Bionicle's end, and have no interest in prolonging its "life".

 

I can vouch for this. The last time I had a real discussion about Bionicle here was... never, actually. Even on the old forums, most anything I posted was in LEGO General Discussion.

 

I had a real discussion about Bionicle here yesterday, actually. If you don't want to discuss Bionicle, that's your business, but I personally doubt that either of you are the majority of this website's population. 

I didn't say I was, nor did I try to assert that. I'm one of many, and I just said that I agreed with Lyichir.

Very well. I misunderstood what both of you were trying to say. I apologize. 


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#123 Offline Driskull

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Posted Jun 01 2013 - 09:53 PM

While it is indeed sad to see these sites shut down, I can really see why LEGO is doing this.

 

As long as the stories are archived, I'm okay with it.


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#124 Offline Ghabulous Ghoti

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Posted Jun 01 2013 - 10:54 PM

The amount of hours I spent on BIONICLE.com...


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#125 Offline Warren Peace

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Posted Jun 02 2013 - 12:01 AM

Not sure if anyone mentioned it already, but there is a way to access it after it's gone, albeit with some occasional problems. It's called the WayBack Machine. You can go back quite a long ways, but it generally gets more corrupt the further back you go. (images won't load, links are sometimes dead). Hope this opens up some fun doors to people!


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#126 Offline Project Nightfall

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Posted Jun 02 2013 - 12:40 AM

OH IT IS SAD DAY.

 

It was a good trip, it'll be dearly missed. Sadly that means that the serials will be gone too. Greg never finished them. :I


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#127 Offline Dorek

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Posted Jun 02 2013 - 01:06 AM

Well that's the final nail in the coffin.

 

RIP Bionicle. I'll be waiting for your return.

 

-Lewa Krom

 

Edit: Also - and this message is directed at Lego - I'm still waiting. Until you bring back Bionicle, I'll continue not purchasing your products.

And that will still continue making as much sense in the years to come as it has since BIONICLE ended; not much at all.

 

I imagine BIONICLE.com will still be on the wayback machine, but I think on BS01 we'll try and grab as much as we can that's relevant.

 

That said, I do prefer some of the older website styles to the newer ones, BIONICLE included =P. Ah well. S'been some good times.


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#128 Offline Makuta Almanax

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Posted Jun 02 2013 - 02:18 AM

This isn't a surprise in the slightest, in fact I'm surprised this wasn't done sooner. But even so it is a shame to see it go. This may well mean the loss of the serials, too. Not that it's entirely a problem. I mean, personally I'd say the golden era was pre-bara Magna myself so I lost interest in the 2009-10 story anyway. Not to mention, the site went through numerous updates and lost information I wanted which I have to wiki all the time instead, with the 'Stars'/spirit-robot battle version being my least favourite.

 

But as I said, it is still a shame. But this doesn't mean Bionicle is dead per se. It just means it's going into the Lego Vault...I do hope they open that vault and try stuff again. Seriously, I want to see them bring back all kinds of old stuff from before I was born with a fresh breath of life in them just to experience what the older Lego fans got to. They did it with Space Police three times, why not other stuff including Bionicle?Anyway, I'm digressing a lot. Most important thing is, the official site shall leave us, but all of us are proof that Bionicle is not dead. Just...'paused'. And even then we have our heavily-established canon, and our less-established individual fanons as well. Bionicle shall always remain with us, even without the official site.


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#129 Offline Zeene

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Posted Jun 02 2013 - 05:50 AM

So, after adding hooks to and changing the extension of roughly 600 files, I can announce that the backup of BionicleStory.com is now live!You can access it over here, of just go to bio.takutanuva.com in case you want to refresh the unfinished global directory, from which you'll be able to navigate shortly after I've finished editing the main Bionicle site. Sooooooooooooon


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#130 Offline Aiwendil

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Posted Jun 02 2013 - 08:42 AM

wooooh! we don't loose them after all =D


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#131 Offline Meiko

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Posted Jun 02 2013 - 09:47 AM

So, after adding hooks to and changing the extension of roughly 600 files, I can announce that the backup of BionicleStory.com is now live!You can access it over here, of just go to bio.takutanuva.com in case you want to refresh the unfinished global directory, from which you'll be able to navigate shortly after I've finished editing the main Bionicle site. Sooooooooooooon

On the BionicleStory.com index.html file, I think you should change the image sources to your local server instead of calling them from cache.lego.com. Otherwise the backup is more or less pointless once LEGO takes it off cache.


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#132 Offline Zeene

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Posted Jun 02 2013 - 09:49 AM

So, after adding hooks to and changing the extension of roughly 600 files, I can announce that the backup of BionicleStory.com is now live!You can access it over here, of just go to bio.takutanuva.com in case you want to refresh the unfinished global directory, from which you'll be able to navigate shortly after I've finished editing the main Bionicle site. Sooooooooooooon

On the BionicleStory.com index.html file, I think you should change the image sources to your local server instead of calling them from cache.lego.com. Otherwise the backup is more or less pointless once LEGO takes it off cache.

 

Yeah, my script converted most URLs, but some are indeed still pointing towards LEGO's cache, because it skipped the JavaScript.

Needless to say it's on the To-Do list, but the No. 1 priority was getting this thing out as soon as possible.

Luckily the files themselves are already located on my own server, it's just that the pages aren't pointing to them yet.


Edited by Zeene, Jun 02 2013 - 09:51 AM.

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#133 Offline TAK The Voyager

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Posted Jun 02 2013 - 11:44 AM

[color=#0000cd;]I can't believe this day finally came. :( I still remember when the website first launched so many years ago. So exciting exploring it for the first time.[/color]

 

 

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#134 Offline Dralcax

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Posted Jun 02 2013 - 01:01 PM

I guess that's it, then. Bionicle had a good run, but hey, all good things come to an end. Still, I understand. There's simply nothing left of Bionicle. The sets are gone and the story has dried up. This may be the final nail in the coffin, but memories aren't buried along with the body. Bionicle will always live on in out hearts. Long live Bionicle. 


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#135 Offline Dual Matrix

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Posted Jun 02 2013 - 01:10 PM

Is it just me or is the Bio-Code thing gone already?


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#136 Offline Obsessionist

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Posted Jun 02 2013 - 02:12 PM

So, after adding hooks to and changing the extension of roughly 600 files, I can announce that the backup of BionicleStory.com is now live!You can access it over here, of just go to bio.takutanuva.com in case you want to refresh the unfinished global directory, from which you'll be able to navigate shortly after I've finished editing the main Bionicle site. Sooooooooooooon

 

Very cool!  I can sleep soundly now knowing everything's saved.


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#137 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jun 02 2013 - 03:33 PM

Is it just me or is the Bio-Code thing gone already?

Yes, I tried to do it yesterday and it didn't work. 


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#138 Offline LewaLew

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Posted Jun 02 2013 - 03:55 PM

Is it just me or is the Bio-Code thing gone already?

Yes, I tried to do it yesterday and it didn't work. 

Man, I don't think I ever printed Journey's End.


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#139 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jun 02 2013 - 04:13 PM

 

Is it just me or is the Bio-Code thing gone already?

Yes, I tried to do it yesterday and it didn't work. 

Man, I don't think I ever printed Journey's End.

That's the files that yours truly was trying to get yesterday. :P

 

It would be nice if somebody had the files. I have it printed, but scanning it back in would take an eon, and it's a colossal shame to have it lost.  


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#140 Offline Aanchir

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Posted Jun 02 2013 - 04:37 PM

Is it just me or is the Bio-Code thing gone already?

Yes, I tried to do it yesterday and it didn't work.

Man, I don't think I ever printed Journey's End.

Guys, it's not that hard to access even without the code. Just do a Google search for '"Journey's End" site:cache.lego.com' (without the single quotes around it). That'll bring up all ten chapters plus the prologue and epilogue.

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#141 Offline Kopaka - Toa Nuva of Ice

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Posted Jun 02 2013 - 05:54 PM

RIP BIONICLE. We've said this multiple times already, but they would need some convincing before they would revive the series. LEGO has moved away from the epicness that we grew up with (or have been fans of for a long time). We need to save copies of BIONICLE.com and BIONICLEStory.com.


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#142 Offline Baltarc

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Posted Jun 02 2013 - 06:16 PM

Guys, it's not that hard to access even without the code. Just do a Google search for '"Journey's End" site:cache.lego.com' (without the single quotes around it). That'll bring up all ten chapters plus the prologue and epilogue.

Oh cool. Thanks for pointing that out, Aanchir. Works perfectly; I just downloaded them now. Note for anyone else doing this: I had to choose to "repeat the search with omitted results included" to find all twelve.

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#143 Offline Meiko

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Posted Jun 02 2013 - 06:48 PM

Here are your chapters, so that you don't need to go to Google:

They're also on Brickipedia if you want to bookmark their page on it. http://en.brickimedi...:_Journey's_End


Edited by Meiko, Jun 02 2013 - 08:05 PM.

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#144 Offline RG Zehvor

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Posted Jun 02 2013 - 08:01 PM

If anyone wants some of  the 2008 kanoka club things(the prototypes), I have most of them.


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#145 Offline ChroXumo

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Posted Jun 02 2013 - 09:04 PM

Whats the saying? Something like, someone is never truly dead as long as some one remembers them. I agree that its an opinion in that matter but then so is yours saying its not alive. It has ended, that is very true, but I like to think it is alive in some way, shape or form. Heck, there is masses amounts of creativity still being driven out from its "corpse". If that doesnt say something then I dont know what will.

 

 

>I agree with CC. I think, Kohran, that Bionicle is alive with the fandom, if not so much with the official sites or products. If Bionicle was well and truly completely dead, then why would we be here still?

 

Well, if you're happier thinking that Bionicle is still alive, then I won't go on about it. But I'd still say that - as a matter of fact, not opinion - Bionicle itself is dead.

Officially, as a running Lego theme, yes, Bionicle is long dead. As something that an active community is interested and invested in, it is to some extent alive. That's what I'm trying to say. If Bionicle was totally inert- totally inactive fanbase, etc.- then I think you'd be right, but that is obviously not the case. Deceased celebrities differ from cancelled franchises.

 

 

I hope someone downloads it and uploads It at some later date.=(

Zeene's copy is already up.


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#146 Offline Dual Matrix

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Posted Jun 03 2013 - 12:35 AM

If anyone wants some of  the 2008 kanoka club things(the prototypes), I have most of them.

I would love to have those...

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#147 Offline Reznas

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Posted Jun 03 2013 - 01:36 AM

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"][color=rgb(0,128,0);]If anyone wants a copy of the Bionicle website, just copy the source code into notepad, save the file as an .html and you'll be able to view the site (just one page). If you want to see the whole site, it'll be a little more work intensive. You'll just have to take the same steps for every page on the site, and replace the "a href" links with the files that you save for each page.[/color][/font]

 

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"][color=rgb(0,128,0);]-Rez[/color][/font]


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#148 Offline Zeene

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Posted Jun 03 2013 - 03:22 AM

If anyone wants some of  the 2008 kanoka club things(the prototypes), I have most of them.

Just shoot me a PM, would be nice for the BioArchives.

 

 

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"][color=rgb(0,128,0);]If anyone wants a copy of the Bionicle website, just copy the source code into notepad, save the file as an .html and you'll be able to view the site (just one page). If you want to see the whole site, it'll be a little more work intensive. You'll just have to take the same steps for every page on the site, and replace the "a href" links with the files that you save for each page.[/color][/font]

Luckily both of those things are a whole lot easier when using Linux, provided you know the right set of arguments for certain commands.


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#149 Offline Artifox

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Posted Jun 03 2013 - 03:37 AM

This saddens me greatly.

 

It was such a big part of my childhood and now the site will soon be gone. Oh well, it wasn't gonna stay up forever but I'm impressed that Lego kept it up for such a long time after the cancellation. Kudos to you, Lego!

 

R.I.P. Bionicle


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#150 Offline ToaN

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Posted Jun 03 2013 - 03:17 PM

Bionicle.com is one of the only websites I can honestly say I'm nostalgic about. Not so much BionicleStory.com, the fact that its going down shoots a bullet into my hopes of the serials coming back. :cry:

 

I'm pretty devastated by this, simply because of the nostalgia. Luckily, there are sites devoted to backing up everything. If there wasn't, I would be pretty :crying:

 

R.I.P Bionicle.com, and Bioniclestory.com.


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#151 Offline The Nold

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Posted Jun 03 2013 - 05:46 PM

Okay, y'all're all gonna think I'm nuts when I say this, even I'm not entirely sure about my mental health, but just hear me out here:What if we're wrong?What I mean by that is:What if it's not the death, but rather the rebirth?What if they're taking the old, crusty, stagnant stuff down to replace it with new, McGeeish, Bionicle-is-back(in black)stuff?Think about it: all they've said is that they're taking the sites offline in a few weeks. THAT'S IT.Like I said, feel free to call me crazy, but still, keep your eyes peeled, just in case.
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#152 Offline XONAR

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Posted Jun 03 2013 - 05:49 PM

JMMB posted a fully functioning backup of Bioniclestory.com on BioMedia Project, just to let everyone know. 

 

I can also make my backup of Bionicle.com available for you guys to download, but not all of the Flash elements are working on it. Otherwise, its fully functional.


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#153 Offline LQ1998

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Posted Jun 03 2013 - 06:18 PM

This is saddening news indeed. BIONICLE.com remains my homepage to this day. I hope—trust, in fact—that the BIONICLE community will back up everything from the sites before they are gone. Much of that has been done already, of course; but it would be nice if someone copied the pages to create complete copies of the sites (minus accounts and so forth, naturally) as they are currently for viewing purposes (perhaps I would change that to my homepage). Despite this sad news, though, I would like to point out that this actually isn't the last nail in the coffin, as some have heralded it to be. If I recall, Binkmeister lost dominion over BIONICLEstory.com a while ago (or if that is incorrect, another similar situation arose) and consequently Greg has not been planning on releasing the serials there for some time. The closing of the websites makes it no less likely that the serials will continue. Similarly, the BIONICLE forums on the LEGO.com Message Boards were made subforums of the Classics forum some time ago, but they are still active and consequently BIONICLE still has a presence on the LEGO website. Hackneyed as it may sound, the fact is that the best way to perpetuate BIONICLE is by not letting developments such as these faze us and by continuing to hope for its return. Despite this, however, I am still greatly saddened. To be honest, as I think about the prospects of this my eyes are watering. Those times I spent in the gallery and building levels for others to play in the Mistika game will soon be over, and I can still find myself going back to check the standings in the Phantoka game. Anyway, my intent in posting this was to console those worried about BIONICLE's future and to state my feelings about the websites' closure without being overly dramatic. As I have obviously overstepped the latter, I should probably stop typing. :P RIP, BIONICLE.com. RIP, BIONICLEstory.com.

 

Exactly how I feel.

 

 

I am deeply sadden by this. I'm not giving up though. As it goes: And even when your hope is gone, move along move along....

As long as there are BZP and BS01, Bionicle will still be alive. Even if they die, as long as one fan remembers it fondly it will still be alive.

 

Many people fondly remember Johnny Cash, Michael Jackson and Amy Winehouse; does that mean they're still alive?

 

But Bionicle was a story. And a story can live on as long as we keep telling it.


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#154 Offline Twi

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Posted Jun 03 2013 - 06:54 PM

I went to Target yesterday to see if they had the Brain Attack Wave 2 sets (which they emphatically did not), and saw two young boys walk into the lego isle.  They walked through uninterested in everything, until they saw the Wave 1 sets.  They ran to them, one of the boys exclaiming to the other, "Dude, look! Bionicles!"

 

Apart from the huge emotional impact I felt there, as well as feeling old (I was around following Bionicle from the very beginning), a thought struck me.  Was not the reason Bionicle was replaced to provide a more accessible story to younger audiences?  It seems unnecessary, as I saw Savage Planet DVDs sitting on a shelf gathering dust.  It certainly didn't matter to these children, who couldn't tell the difference between Bionicle and Hero Factory.  I now question the abrupt ending of Bionicle even more-so, particularly with themes like Chima and Ninjago around to provide other original stories which, in my opinion, although not necessarily great, far outclass the cheesy, predictable Hero Factory story.


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#155 Offline XONAR

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Posted Jun 03 2013 - 07:16 PM

I went to Target yesterday to see if they had the Brain Attack Wave 2 sets (which they emphatically did not), and saw two young boys walk into the lego isle.  They walked through uninterested in everything, until they saw the Wave 1 sets.  They ran to them, one of the boys exclaiming to the other, "Dude, look! Bionicles!"

 

Apart from the huge emotional impact I felt there, as well as feeling old (I was around following Bionicle from the very beginning), a thought struck me.  Was not the reason Bionicle was replaced to provide a more accessible story to younger audiences?  It seems unnecessary, as I saw Savage Planet DVDs sitting on a shelf gathering dust.  It certainly didn't matter to these children, who couldn't tell the difference between Bionicle and Hero Factory.  I now question the abrupt ending of Bionicle even more-so, particularly with themes like Chima and Ninjago around to provide other original stories which, in my opinion, although not necessarily great, far outclass the cheesy, predictable Hero Factory story.

That is a sad story indeed, Twi.

 

Unfortunately, Lego's "action figure" line could not continue under the Bionicle name any longer. It had to be freshened with a new name, and therefore a new storyline; a storyline that would unfortunately be much simpler and easier to follow for the younger target audience of Hero Factory. HF had to be new to appeal to its target audience of younger kids. HF will never compare to Bionicle, and I still believe Lego was wrong to end Bionicle. It was a huge part of my life. 


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#156 Offline LewaLew

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Posted Jun 03 2013 - 07:27 PM

I went to Target yesterday to see if they had the Brain Attack Wave 2 sets (which they emphatically did not), and saw two young boys walk into the lego isle.  They walked through uninterested in everything, until they saw the Wave 1 sets.  They ran to them, one of the boys exclaiming to the other, "Dude, look! Bionicles!"

 

Apart from the huge emotional impact I felt there, as well as feeling old (I was around following Bionicle from the very beginning), a thought struck me.  Was not the reason Bionicle was replaced to provide a more accessible story to younger audiences?  It seems unnecessary, as I saw Savage Planet DVDs sitting on a shelf gathering dust.  It certainly didn't matter to these children, who couldn't tell the difference between Bionicle and Hero Factory.  I now question the abrupt ending of Bionicle even more-so, particularly with themes like Chima and Ninjago around to provide other original stories which, in my opinion, although not necessarily great, far outclass the cheesy, predictable Hero Factory story.

The point was to reinvigorate LEGO's constraction lines as a whole. Even BIONICLE didn't sell exclusively off of its story. My best friend when I was younger had more BIONICLE sets than I did, but he didn't know the first thing about the story. He's moved on past LEGO now, but his younger siblings do own HF, I believe, and they probably don't care about the story either. I haven't seen him in a while, though.


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#157 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted Jun 03 2013 - 08:36 PM

 

As long as there are BZP and BS01, Bionicle will still be alive. Even if they die, as long as one fan remembers it fondly it will still be alive.

 

Many people fondly remember Johnny Cash, Michael Jackson and Amy Winehouse; does that mean they're still alive?

 

But Bionicle was a story. And a story can live on as long as we keep telling it.

 

It isn't our story to tell. It is Lego's, because they created and own it. Anything we write is just fan fiction.

 

Unfortunately, Lego's "action figure" line could not continue under the Bionicle name any longer. It had to be freshened with a new name, and therefore a new storyline; a storyline that would unfortunately be much simpler and easier to follow for the younger target audience of Hero Factory. HF had to be new to appeal to its target audience of younger kids. HF will never compare to Bionicle, and I still believe Lego was wrong to end Bionicle.

 

I don't think anyone would argue that Hero Factory's story is better than Bionicle's, but as I'm sure you know, quality isn't what counts in business. Bionicle's story was great if you were a devoted teenage/adult fan who dutifully read all the books, knew what happened in every event, where in the universe every location was, and the name, powers and history of every last character. But the masses of young kids in the world don't care for complexity and don't want to pay for it. They want a fun, simple story that they can learn in a few minutes before they play with the sets. That's what Bionicle offered in its early years, what Hero Factory offers now, and what ultimately helps sell sets. The dark, winding, complex story Bionicle bound itself up in just wasn't an effective asset for a toyline.


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#158 Offline The Nold

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Posted Jun 03 2013 - 08:40 PM

 

As long as there are BZP and BS01, Bionicle will still be alive. Even if they die, as long as one fan remembers it fondly it will still be alive.

 Many people fondly remember Johnny Cash, Michael Jackson and Amy Winehouse; does that mean they're still alive?
 But Bionicle was a story. And a story can live on as long as we keep telling it.
 It isn't our story to tell. It is Lego's, because they created and own it. Anything we write is just fan fiction.
Let me ask you something: Ever heard your parents tell a story that they didn't write? Did that make the story any worse? Did the fact that the person who wrote it originally has been dead for x years make the story boring? No, because it was a good story.

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#159 Offline ChroXumo

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Posted Jun 03 2013 - 08:47 PM

Unfortunately, Lego's "action figure" line could not continue under the Bionicle name any longer. It had to be freshened with a new name, and therefore a new storyline; a storyline that would unfortunately be much simpler and easier to follow for the younger target audience of Hero Factory. HF had to be new to appeal to its target audience of younger kids. HF will never compare to Bionicle, and I still believe Lego was wrong to end Bionicle.

 

I don't think anyone would argue that Hero Factory's story is better than Bionicle's, but as I'm sure you know, quality isn't what counts in business. Bionicle's story was great if you were a devoted teenage/adult fan who dutifully read all the books, knew what happened in every event, where in the universe every location was, and the name, powers and history of every last character. But the masses of young kids in the world don't care for complexity and don't want to pay for it. They want a fun, simple story that they can learn in a few minutes before they play with the sets. That's what Bionicle offered in its early years, what Hero Factory offers now, and what ultimately helps sell sets. The dark, winding, complex story Bionicle bound itself up in just wasn't an effective asset for a toyline.

 

I agree with most of that assessment. (But to relate it to my previous point, it doesn't mean Bionicle's dead in spirit, just in business.) ;)


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#160 Offline Twi

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Posted Jun 03 2013 - 08:58 PM

Well, as far as I can tell, no children are actually following the new storyline of Hero Factory, and as I said before, they have two other themes with simpler stories, Ninjago and Chima.  With this, added to the fact that they are now running consecutive action figure lines, the end of Bionicle just seems like it was aimless to me.


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