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lessovikk4

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  1. Okay I'm sorry I even started this topic because I guess we're all just gonna disagree about theoretical concepts, so I request this topic to be closed.
  2. Yeah I know, black holes are caused by supernovas and held together by unknown forces we don't fully understand, why do they evaporate and release Hawking radiation? No one knows, there more complex then just collapsing a star into a white dwarf. Okay, then why use that simile? But the reason black holes happen is gravity. Gravity is why the star collapses. To illustrate why your point was wrong; that's what rhetorical devices are for. Air and water aren't the same chemical. Toa of one cannot control the other, regardless of anything having to do with what state of matter they're in. The fact that they are both fluids has nothing to do with it. Black holes are caused by stars going supernova and collapsing, regular stars won't cut it... Then why can Toa of air control water vapor? I know how black holes form; but their formation is caused by gravitational forces. That is my point. What does the type of star have anything to do with it. I have found nothing to substantiate your claim that Toa of Air can control water vapor. According to BioSector01, they can only control actual air. However, they could probably manipulate the air around water vapor to blow it in a certain direction. There's more too it than just gravitational forces I meant to say Toa of water But gravity is the reason why it happens. It's all about matter being compressed into a tiny space. As has been stated, real-world physical laws don't apply. Again, the Great Beings may have created Toa to have these restrictions in place. Why is Plasma an element? It's not a specific substance, it's a state of matter. Why is Gravity an element? It's a force, not an actual thing. How do elemental powers even work? Bionicle is part sci-fi, part fantasy; the fantasy element is at work here, and real-world logic cannot be reasonably applied in a way that would make sense. Okay, one more time, there's more too it then gravity, otherwise a red giant would form a black hole not a white dwarf. Plasma can refer to different things, a state of matter, electrical current, bodily fluid. As said, the books definition of a black hole is flawed, and so may be plasma, gravity is a force, it's one of the 4 fundamental forces, and it's suspected it's caused by force carrying bosons lovingly called theorized gravatons. I'm not sure how a Toa of gravity works or all these other questions, and like I said, if the writer wants to say something that's fine, and I'm not the writer, but I never said the writer was wrong, I suggested a Toa power and why it COULD work, if you don't like it thats fine, and it's not yet part of the story and probably won't be but I'm just proving why it would work. So I don't understand you guys saying the writer didn't intend it, he didn't say anything about it but he didn't say anything against it so why are you all mad about it? Okay, one more time, GRAVITY IS WHY IT HAPPENS AT ALL. Obviously, there's multiple factors; but the most important one is gravity. Plasma, in the context of Bionicle, refers to a superheated gas-like substance. It's never defined what the plasma actually is. It's not electricity because that would fall under the domain of a Toa of Lightning. Gravity, as one theory goes, is the result of objects causing an impression in space-time like objects resting on a mattress. That is where the force comes from. Ergo, a Toa of Gravity is actually a Toa of Space-time. You are presenting your proposals like they are fact when, in reality, there is no concrete evidence to support them because Greg-senpai has confirmed that Bionicle physics are not like our own. How do we know what the "air" of the Bionicle world even is? Is it really the same gas we breathe? What is their "water?" Nobody is getting mad, you're just presenting theories as if they are solid, undeniable facts. We don't even know if the Great Beings made all Toa to be able to control everything in every state of matter. The rules they set in place remain a mystery, so there is little use in trying to speculate what the rest of their rules are when they don't make sense as it is. I don't know enough about Toa of plasma, please cite sources. Gravity isn't the initial cause of a black hole. The space time theory isn't a cause of gravity, force carriers of the strong force. Weak force, and electromagnetic force have all been proven, so my theory is more solid. I don't know what I said like fact that wasn't a true fact. Once again Greg doesn't care enough about the story to even give it a satisfactory ending, or to even keep writing it. And what did I say that contradicted him, I'm not "proving" why everything works, I'm saying why this theory could work, everything I said has been based on facts, I can cite you articals. And again, if you don't like the theory thats fine but until either of us gets custody of the series, neither of us can say the others opinion is flat out wrong, and I want a more scientific story so I'm not saying your wrong, just what I want in the story. Cited evidence it takes more than initial gravity to make a black hole: star can collapse under its own weight after its nuclear fuel has been exhausted. Once the energy is gone, a star about as massive as the sun remains as a slowly cooling white dwarf that still has normal matter in it. A more massive star can collapse further. Beyond a certain mass, the star's atoms sweat electrons to the surface, and the body collapses into what is basically a single atom around 10 miles across. This is a neutron star, and it is made out of protons and neutrons with a dusting of electrons on its surface. When the mass of the star has exceeded even the neutrons' ability to hold up the star, however, the entire body collapses to its final state, that of a black hole.
  3. Yeah I know, black holes are caused by supernovas and held together by unknown forces we don't fully understand, why do they evaporate and release Hawking radiation? No one knows, there more complex then just collapsing a star into a white dwarf. Okay, then why use that simile? But the reason black holes happen is gravity. Gravity is why the star collapses. To illustrate why your point was wrong; that's what rhetorical devices are for. Air and water aren't the same chemical. Toa of one cannot control the other, regardless of anything having to do with what state of matter they're in. The fact that they are both fluids has nothing to do with it. Black holes are caused by stars going supernova and collapsing, regular stars won't cut it... Then why can Toa of air control water vapor? I know how black holes form; but their formation is caused by gravitational forces. That is my point. What does the type of star have anything to do with it. I have found nothing to substantiate your claim that Toa of Air can control water vapor. According to BioSector01, they can only control actual air. However, they could probably manipulate the air around water vapor to blow it in a certain direction. There's more too it than just gravitational forces I meant to say Toa of water But gravity is the reason why it happens. It's all about matter being compressed into a tiny space. As has been stated, real-world physical laws don't apply. Again, the Great Beings may have created Toa to have these restrictions in place. Why is Plasma an element? It's not a specific substance, it's a state of matter. Why is Gravity an element? It's a force, not an actual thing. How do elemental powers even work? Bionicle is part sci-fi, part fantasy; the fantasy element is at work here, and real-world logic cannot be reasonably applied in a way that would make sense. Okay, one more time, there's more too it then gravity, otherwise a red giant would form a black hole not a white dwarf. Plasma can refer to different things, a state of matter, electrical current, bodily fluid. As said, the books definition of a black hole is flawed, and so may be plasma, gravity is a force, it's one of the 4 fundamental forces, and it's suspected it's caused by force carrying bosons lovingly called theorized gravatons. I'm not sure how a Toa of gravity works or all these other questions, and like I said, if the writer wants to say something that's fine, and I'm not the writer, but I never said the writer was wrong, I suggested a Toa power and why it COULD work, if you don't like it thats fine, and it's not yet part of the story and probably won't be but I'm just proving why it would work. So I don't understand you guys saying the writer didn't intend it, he didn't say anything about it but he didn't say anything against it so why are you all mad about it?
  4. Yeah I know, black holes are caused by supernovas and held together by unknown forces we don't fully understand, why do they evaporate and release Hawking radiation? No one knows, there more complex then just collapsing a star into a white dwarf. Okay, then why use that simile? But the reason black holes happen is gravity. Gravity is why the star collapses. To illustrate why your point was wrong; that's what rhetorical devices are for. Air and water aren't the same chemical. Toa of one cannot control the other, regardless of anything having to do with what state of matter they're in. The fact that they are both fluids has nothing to do with it. Black holes are caused by stars going supernova and collapsing, regular stars won't cut it... Then why can Toa of air control water vapor? I know how black holes form; but their formation is caused by gravitational forces. That is my point. What does the type of star have anything to do with it. I have found nothing to substantiate your claim that Toa of Air can control water vapor. According to BioSector01, they can only control actual air. However, they could probably manipulate the air around water vapor to blow it in a certain direction. There's more too it than just gravitational forces I meant to say Toa of water
  5. Yeah I know, black holes are caused by supernovas and held together by unknown forces we don't fully understand, why do they evaporate and release Hawking radiation? No one knows, there more complex then just collapsing a star into a white dwarf. Okay, then why use that simile? But the reason black holes happen is gravity. Gravity is why the star collapses. To illustrate why your point was wrong; that's what rhetorical devices are for. Air and water aren't the same chemical. Toa of one cannot control the other, regardless of anything having to do with what state of matter they're in. The fact that they are both fluids has nothing to do with it. Black holes are caused by stars going supernova and collapsing, regular stars won't cut it... Then why can Toa of air control water vapor?
  6. I've twice referenced the quote by Greg saying that real-world physics do not apply in BIONICLE. All you've said with regards to whether or not Toa of Air can control liquid is that it cannot be any other way because that's the way things work in our world. While it might be cool to have a story where the powers involve controlling literal atomic elements, that's a bit harder on the sci-fi scale and doesn't really fit the more fantasy style of what BIONICLE is. Okay, I can respect that, I just disagree, but thats your take on bionicle and I know you don't agree with mine so that's fine.
  7. Nope. And in this case the logical explanation is that this is a story with made-up rules. These rules can be as vague or as contrary to real science as the writers want them to be.Okay then, if your just gonna disagree for no reason with no evidence bite me. And if science doesn't matter to you then #### it, Toa of air having this power makes for a great story. So would a Kakama Nuva grant the user Sonic powers? For that matter, wouldn't having power over Air or Water allow the same thing? Sound is vibrations through a medium, so if you can control that medium wouldn't you be able to make sonic blasts? How does ice being crystallized keep a Toa of Water from controlling it? If a Toa of Air could control liquid oxygen, what's stopping a Toa of Water from controlling, well, crystallized water? That's my point about Toa of Shadow. If they create "shadow blasts" then if you're taking a scientific approach all they're doing is absorbing or redirecting photons from a specific place. Isn't this just a Toa of Light's power in reverse? On top of that, how is that even remotely threatening? At most they could make it so you can't see and feel a bit cold. I likened Shadow and Gravity because a black hole also absorbs photons, because it has sufficient gravitational pull. A Toa of Shadow would need to have something like that power that exclusively works on photons in order to create any kind of "darkness". BIONICLE vs. science is going to fail because, as the good old saying goes, real-life physics don't apply in BIONICLE. What is protodermis? What elements is it made of, and why does it count as water? Is it just hydrogen and oxygen? If so, how can it have such a massive strength-to-mass ratio that it can support a planet-sized robot, which should've crumpled under its own weight before it was even completed? What's the scientific reason that carving this material into mask shapes gives the wearer additional magic powers? Does protodermis just have the inherent ability to filter breathable oxygen from water, or hover, or move fast, or project barriers? How? How does combining six elemental powers create this material? Okay mr cynic then if a Toa of water can control water vapor and part water part protodermis solution and this was an acquired skill then by all means a Toa of air can defiantly control liquid oxygen.And a black hole isn't made of ambient darkness or gravity so that doesn't make sense, it's the aftermath of a supernova... And if a Toa of water can control water vapor then the only explanation for ice is that it's crystalized. Besides, drawing water out of air is the same as drawing air out of water. Oxygen is not actually air. Air is comprised of multiple chemical elements. Black holes produce a powerful gravitational pull, so if they can suck in photons via gravity, so can a wielder of gravity itself. Water vapor is still a fluid. Have you considered that as being an explanation? I know oxygen is not air, it's a component, it was an example. But protodermis is a liquid and helryx can't manipulate it, so it not Toa of liquid or gas, it's Toa of AIR so air must mean oxygen, and by default liquid oxygen. Also have you considered even if Toa of air cannot manipulate liquid oxygen, they can compress it into a liquid using more air and or by lowering the tempature by changing the outer air density. Yeah, I get a Toa of gravity could bend photons, thats not the question. The question was could they create black holes and I said no because that requires a supernova of energy, certain types of mater, and other external factors. What do you mean water vapors a fluid? It's a gaseous form of water, like liquid oxygen is a liquid form of oxygen found in air... What are you talking about? Protodermis has nothing to do with it; Oxygen and air are not the same substance, so Toa of Air can't control Oxygen. Black holes occur because so much matter has been pulled into such a small space. A Toa of Gravity could create a gravitational field strong enough to bring in enough matter for a black hole. Fluid does not mean liquid. A fluid is a substance with no set shape which reacts very easily to pressure. Gases and liquids qualify as fluids. Fine, a liquid form of all air and it's components in place of oxygen* ? Black holes aren't formed through random fluctuations in gravity. A Toa of gravity cannot produce the material to make a consistent black hole. If they could even do that it would evaporate from lack of energy and form a Planck star or condensed rock if it sucked in anything, so what's even the point. ? Okay then if water vapors a "fluid" (and I'm not sure how your defineing fluid) then liquid oxygen or liquid air, whatever you want to say, something that comprises all the components of air in liquid form that has more than just liquid oxygen, a Toa of air can manipulate it like a Toa of water can manipulate water vapor. If a Toa of Water can control water vapor, a Toa of Air may be able to control air in liquid form. Consider this, though: what if the Great Beings specifically created Toa to have the seemingly ruleless limitations we observe? They went out of their way to make Toa of Water able to control water vapor and liquid water, but left Toa of Ice to control solid water so Toa of Water wouldn't be too strong and Ice could still be manipulated. They never wanted anyone to control liquid air, so Toa of Air were not given this ability. Gravity can be used to compress a lot of matter in a tiny space if one can control it. In fact, black holes form when a star dies because the star gets so big, its own gravity pulls itself into a small area. That is the actual definition of fluid used by chemists and pysicists. Look it up if you doubt me. Okay so again, if science no longer matters, it's a cool power so I say they can. ??? Okay, I was only saying there's more to a black hole then a gravity field. I don't doubt your dictionary definition of fluid, only the context of which it's used. For that definition implies Toa of water and air have interchangeable powers Then we're getting into headcanon territory. You were proclaiming that Toa of Gravity could not create a black hole. That's why I was saying that. The only reason they wouldn't be able to would be if they required more elemental energy than they actually had. No, it does not. Air and water are not the same material. In real life it takes more than a gravitational field to make a black hole. It does state instances of black holes in the story although the validity is debatable as it does not pertain to the dictionary definition. If you are referring to the fluid dynamics definition of a mailable substance this can make water vapor and air one in the same by definition. If this isn't what your referring to please cite something. There aren't gravitational fields in real life, save for those caused by objects. We don't have beings who can just make gravity. If such a being did exist, though, and they were powerful enough, they'd have the strength to compress enough matter into a small enough space to form a black hole. That's what a black hole is. A lot of matter in a small space. That's like saying Ice and Earth are the same because they're both rigid solids. Yeah I know, black holes are caused by supernovas and held together by unknown forces we don't fully understand, why do they evaporate and release Hawking radiation? No one knows, there more complex then just collapsing a star into a white dwarf. Okay, then why use that simile?
  8. Nope. And in this case the logical explanation is that this is a story with made-up rules. These rules can be as vague or as contrary to real science as the writers want them to be.Okay then, if your just gonna disagree for no reason with no evidence bite me. And if science doesn't matter to you then #### it, Toa of air having this power makes for a great story. So would a Kakama Nuva grant the user Sonic powers? For that matter, wouldn't having power over Air or Water allow the same thing? Sound is vibrations through a medium, so if you can control that medium wouldn't you be able to make sonic blasts? How does ice being crystallized keep a Toa of Water from controlling it? If a Toa of Air could control liquid oxygen, what's stopping a Toa of Water from controlling, well, crystallized water? That's my point about Toa of Shadow. If they create "shadow blasts" then if you're taking a scientific approach all they're doing is absorbing or redirecting photons from a specific place. Isn't this just a Toa of Light's power in reverse? On top of that, how is that even remotely threatening? At most they could make it so you can't see and feel a bit cold. I likened Shadow and Gravity because a black hole also absorbs photons, because it has sufficient gravitational pull. A Toa of Shadow would need to have something like that power that exclusively works on photons in order to create any kind of "darkness". BIONICLE vs. science is going to fail because, as the good old saying goes, real-life physics don't apply in BIONICLE. What is protodermis? What elements is it made of, and why does it count as water? Is it just hydrogen and oxygen? If so, how can it have such a massive strength-to-mass ratio that it can support a planet-sized robot, which should've crumpled under its own weight before it was even completed? What's the scientific reason that carving this material into mask shapes gives the wearer additional magic powers? Does protodermis just have the inherent ability to filter breathable oxygen from water, or hover, or move fast, or project barriers? How? How does combining six elemental powers create this material? Okay mr cynic then if a Toa of water can control water vapor and part water part protodermis solution and this was an acquired skill then by all means a Toa of air can defiantly control liquid oxygen.And a black hole isn't made of ambient darkness or gravity so that doesn't make sense, it's the aftermath of a supernova... And if a Toa of water can control water vapor then the only explanation for ice is that it's crystalized. Besides, drawing water out of air is the same as drawing air out of water. Oxygen is not actually air. Air is comprised of multiple chemical elements. Black holes produce a powerful gravitational pull, so if they can suck in photons via gravity, so can a wielder of gravity itself. Water vapor is still a fluid. Have you considered that as being an explanation? I know oxygen is not air, it's a component, it was an example. But protodermis is a liquid and helryx can't manipulate it, so it not Toa of liquid or gas, it's Toa of AIR so air must mean oxygen, and by default liquid oxygen. Also have you considered even if Toa of air cannot manipulate liquid oxygen, they can compress it into a liquid using more air and or by lowering the tempature by changing the outer air density. Yeah, I get a Toa of gravity could bend photons, thats not the question. The question was could they create black holes and I said no because that requires a supernova of energy, certain types of mater, and other external factors. What do you mean water vapors a fluid? It's a gaseous form of water, like liquid oxygen is a liquid form of oxygen found in air... What are you talking about? Protodermis has nothing to do with it; Oxygen and air are not the same substance, so Toa of Air can't control Oxygen. Black holes occur because so much matter has been pulled into such a small space. A Toa of Gravity could create a gravitational field strong enough to bring in enough matter for a black hole. Fluid does not mean liquid. A fluid is a substance with no set shape which reacts very easily to pressure. Gases and liquids qualify as fluids. Fine, a liquid form of all air and it's components in place of oxygen* ? Black holes aren't formed through random fluctuations in gravity. A Toa of gravity cannot produce the material to make a consistent black hole. If they could even do that it would evaporate from lack of energy and form a Planck star or condensed rock if it sucked in anything, so what's even the point. ? Okay then if water vapors a "fluid" (and I'm not sure how your defineing fluid) then liquid oxygen or liquid air, whatever you want to say, something that comprises all the components of air in liquid form that has more than just liquid oxygen, a Toa of air can manipulate it like a Toa of water can manipulate water vapor. If a Toa of Water can control water vapor, a Toa of Air may be able to control air in liquid form. Consider this, though: what if the Great Beings specifically created Toa to have the seemingly ruleless limitations we observe? They went out of their way to make Toa of Water able to control water vapor and liquid water, but left Toa of Ice to control solid water so Toa of Water wouldn't be too strong and Ice could still be manipulated. They never wanted anyone to control liquid air, so Toa of Air were not given this ability. Gravity can be used to compress a lot of matter in a tiny space if one can control it. In fact, black holes form when a star dies because the star gets so big, its own gravity pulls itself into a small area. That is the actual definition of fluid used by chemists and pysicists. Look it up if you doubt me. Okay so again, if science no longer matters, it's a cool power so I say they can. ??? Okay, I was only saying there's more to a black hole then a gravity field. I don't doubt your dictionary definition of fluid, only the context of which it's used. For that definition implies Toa of water and air have interchangeable powers Then we're getting into headcanon territory. You were proclaiming that Toa of Gravity could not create a black hole. That's why I was saying that. The only reason they wouldn't be able to would be if they required more elemental energy than they actually had. No, it does not. Air and water are not the same material. In real life it takes more than a gravitational field to make a black hole. It does state instances of black holes in the story although the validity is debatable as it does not pertain to the dictionary definition. If you are referring to the fluid dynamics definition of a mailable substance this can make water vapor and air one in the same by definition. If this isn't what your referring to please cite something. Okay I was using science as a reason it would be plausible in the bionicle story. So what rules did I defy laid down in the story that a Toa of air cannot manipulate the liquid bases of the components of air?
  9. Nope. And in this case the logical explanation is that this is a story with made-up rules. These rules can be as vague or as contrary to real science as the writers want them to be.Okay then, if your just gonna disagree for no reason with no evidence bite me. And if science doesn't matter to you then #### it, Toa of air having this power makes for a great story. So would a Kakama Nuva grant the user Sonic powers? For that matter, wouldn't having power over Air or Water allow the same thing? Sound is vibrations through a medium, so if you can control that medium wouldn't you be able to make sonic blasts? How does ice being crystallized keep a Toa of Water from controlling it? If a Toa of Air could control liquid oxygen, what's stopping a Toa of Water from controlling, well, crystallized water? That's my point about Toa of Shadow. If they create "shadow blasts" then if you're taking a scientific approach all they're doing is absorbing or redirecting photons from a specific place. Isn't this just a Toa of Light's power in reverse? On top of that, how is that even remotely threatening? At most they could make it so you can't see and feel a bit cold. I likened Shadow and Gravity because a black hole also absorbs photons, because it has sufficient gravitational pull. A Toa of Shadow would need to have something like that power that exclusively works on photons in order to create any kind of "darkness". BIONICLE vs. science is going to fail because, as the good old saying goes, real-life physics don't apply in BIONICLE. What is protodermis? What elements is it made of, and why does it count as water? Is it just hydrogen and oxygen? If so, how can it have such a massive strength-to-mass ratio that it can support a planet-sized robot, which should've crumpled under its own weight before it was even completed? What's the scientific reason that carving this material into mask shapes gives the wearer additional magic powers? Does protodermis just have the inherent ability to filter breathable oxygen from water, or hover, or move fast, or project barriers? How? How does combining six elemental powers create this material? Okay mr cynic then if a Toa of water can control water vapor and part water part protodermis solution and this was an acquired skill then by all means a Toa of air can defiantly control liquid oxygen.And a black hole isn't made of ambient darkness or gravity so that doesn't make sense, it's the aftermath of a supernova... And if a Toa of water can control water vapor then the only explanation for ice is that it's crystalized. Besides, drawing water out of air is the same as drawing air out of water. Oxygen is not actually air. Air is comprised of multiple chemical elements. Black holes produce a powerful gravitational pull, so if they can suck in photons via gravity, so can a wielder of gravity itself. Water vapor is still a fluid. Have you considered that as being an explanation? I know oxygen is not air, it's a component, it was an example. But protodermis is a liquid and helryx can't manipulate it, so it not Toa of liquid or gas, it's Toa of AIR so air must mean oxygen, and by default liquid oxygen. Also have you considered even if Toa of air cannot manipulate liquid oxygen, they can compress it into a liquid using more air and or by lowering the tempature by changing the outer air density. Yeah, I get a Toa of gravity could bend photons, thats not the question. The question was could they create black holes and I said no because that requires a supernova of energy, certain types of mater, and other external factors. What do you mean water vapors a fluid? It's a gaseous form of water, like liquid oxygen is a liquid form of oxygen found in air... What are you talking about? Protodermis has nothing to do with it; Oxygen and air are not the same substance, so Toa of Air can't control Oxygen. Black holes occur because so much matter has been pulled into such a small space. A Toa of Gravity could create a gravitational field strong enough to bring in enough matter for a black hole. Fluid does not mean liquid. A fluid is a substance with no set shape which reacts very easily to pressure. Gases and liquids qualify as fluids. Fine, a liquid form of all air and it's components in place of oxygen* ? Black holes aren't formed through random fluctuations in gravity. A Toa of gravity cannot produce the material to make a consistent black hole. If they could even do that it would evaporate from lack of energy and form a Planck star or condensed rock if it sucked in anything, so what's even the point. ? Okay then if water vapors a "fluid" (and I'm not sure how your defineing fluid) then liquid oxygen or liquid air, whatever you want to say, something that comprises all the components of air in liquid form that has more than just liquid oxygen, a Toa of air can manipulate it like a Toa of water can manipulate water vapor. If a Toa of Water can control water vapor, a Toa of Air may be able to control air in liquid form. Consider this, though: what if the Great Beings specifically created Toa to have the seemingly ruleless limitations we observe? They went out of their way to make Toa of Water able to control water vapor and liquid water, but left Toa of Ice to control solid water so Toa of Water wouldn't be too strong and Ice could still be manipulated. They never wanted anyone to control liquid air, so Toa of Air were not given this ability. Gravity can be used to compress a lot of matter in a tiny space if one can control it. In fact, black holes form when a star dies because the star gets so big, its own gravity pulls itself into a small area. That is the actual definition of fluid used by chemists and pysicists. Look it up if you doubt me. Okay so again, if science no longer matters, it's a cool power so I say they can. ??? Okay, I was only saying there's more to a black hole then a gravity field. I don't doubt your dictionary definition of fluid, only the context of which it's used. For that definition implies Toa of water and air have interchangeable powers
  10. Anything's possible, but there's always a logical explanation.
  11. The only reason you see "no other explanation" is because you're limiting what can happen in the fictional world based on what happens in the real world, and I don't see any reason to do that. You can try. But if you try to apply real science to non-real unscientific things, you're going to fail. I return to Greg's ever-popular quote: "Real life physics don't apply in BIONICLE, unless scientists discovered Protodermis yesterday and I wasn't told about it." Build an argument on flawed premises and you won't get anywhere, no matter how good the argument is.How's my argument flawed? And as for Greg, I'm sure he'd endorse a new Toa power, and btw protodermis behaves a lot like gallium if you have to relate it to a real element. And as for Greg, if you love him so much then why did he tank the 2010 story and stop writing the serials? The story was good at the begging with c a hapaka but then it became about the money and Lego funding, so you can't treat Greg's word like the dub for all things bionicle. Let it be known, fans have designed a wide faucet of the story, like Nikkila, the darks hunters appearances, various Rahi, and others. Greg doesn't even want to be part of the series anymore.w e are the only future, and I'm just trying to enhance it.
  12. Okay Toa of gravity can create black holes, you got me. I'm still arguing they aren't traditional black holes and evaporate quickly, but whatever, I can't refute the story. There is no other explanation then a water base for protodermis being manipulated but not energized protodermis. You can apply science to fiction. Argue correctly and you're never wrong. Like the gahlok Kal who implodes is referred to as creating a black hole but it's not a black hole in the traditional sense you I argue with the validity of the wording. The point isn't to explain everything. I was trying to justify a cool Toa power. And as for the evolution of a mermaid, thats not a logical explanation for our world, but maybe they evolved for some reason in another, and through that you can explain mutation and natural selection to kids. It's irresponsible to say their isn't an explanation under the laws of physics for something.
  13. So would a Kakama Nuva grant the user Sonic powers? For that matter, wouldn't having power over Air or Water allow the same thing? Sound is vibrations through a medium, so if you can control that medium wouldn't you be able to make sonic blasts? How does ice being crystallized keep a Toa of Water from controlling it? If a Toa of Air could control liquid oxygen, what's stopping a Toa of Water from controlling, well, crystallized water? That's my point about Toa of Shadow. If they create "shadow blasts" then if you're taking a scientific approach all they're doing is absorbing or redirecting photons from a specific place. Isn't this just a Toa of Light's power in reverse? On top of that, how is that even remotely threatening? At most they could make it so you can't see and feel a bit cold. I likened Shadow and Gravity because a black hole also absorbs photons, because it has sufficient gravitational pull. A Toa of Shadow would need to have something like that power that exclusively works on photons in order to create any kind of "darkness". BIONICLE vs. science is going to fail because, as the good old saying goes, real-life physics don't apply in BIONICLE. What is protodermis? What elements is it made of, and why does it count as water? Is it just hydrogen and oxygen? If so, how can it have such a massive strength-to-mass ratio that it can support a planet-sized robot, which should've crumpled under its own weight before it was even completed? What's the scientific reason that carving this material into mask shapes gives the wearer additional magic powers? Does protodermis just have the inherent ability to filter breathable oxygen from water, or hover, or move fast, or project barriers? How? How does combining six elemental powers create this material? Okay mr cynic then if a Toa of water can control water vapor and part water part protodermis solution and this was an acquired skill then by all means a Toa of air can defiantly control liquid oxygen.And a black hole isn't made of ambient darkness or gravity so that doesn't make sense, it's the aftermath of a supernova... And if a Toa of water can control water vapor then the only explanation for ice is that it's crystalized. Besides, drawing water out of air is the same as drawing air out of water. Oxygen is not actually air. Air is comprised of multiple chemical elements. Black holes produce a powerful gravitational pull, so if they can suck in photons via gravity, so can a wielder of gravity itself. Water vapor is still a fluid. Have you considered that as being an explanation? I know oxygen is not air, it's a component, it was an example. But protodermis is a liquid and helryx can't manipulate it, so it not Toa of liquid or gas, it's Toa of AIR so air must mean oxygen, and by default liquid oxygen. Also have you considered even if Toa of air cannot manipulate liquid oxygen, they can compress it into a liquid using more air and or by lowering the tempature by changing the outer air density. Yeah, I get a Toa of gravity could bend photons, thats not the question. The question was could they create black holes and I said no because that requires a supernova of energy, certain types of mater, and other external factors. What do you mean water vapors a fluid? It's a gaseous form of water, like liquid oxygen is a liquid form of oxygen found in air... What are you talking about? Protodermis has nothing to do with it; Oxygen and air are not the same substance, so Toa of Air can't control Oxygen. Black holes occur because so much matter has been pulled into such a small space. A Toa of Gravity could create a gravitational field strong enough to bring in enough matter for a black hole. Fluid does not mean liquid. A fluid is a substance with no set shape which reacts very easily to pressure. Gases and liquids qualify as fluids. Fine, a liquid form of all air and it's components in place of oxygen* ? Black holes aren't formed through random fluctuations in gravity. A Toa of gravity cannot produce the material to make a consistent black hole. If they could even do that it would evaporate from lack of energy and form a Planck star or condensed rock if it sucked in anything, so what's even the point. ? Okay then if water vapors a "fluid" (and I'm not sure how your defineing fluid) then liquid oxygen or liquid air, whatever you want to say, something that comprises all the components of air in liquid form that has more than just liquid oxygen, a Toa of air can manipulate it like a Toa of water can manipulate water vapor.
  14. And yet toa of water cannot control energized protodermis or ice... This implies there must be some kind of element base that there has to be enough of in the correct form to manipulate. Like water. Protodermis comes in different forms anyway, like organic protodermis can't be solid metal, it must have other elements in it. So Toa of water probably do only manipulate things with an h2o base. I always thought toa of gravity worked in a similar way to bosons, effecting partials like an energy carrier, this area of physics is already sketchy about why force carriers work the way they do, so I thought they were one n the same. I wasn't saying Toa of gravity can't bend photons, I'm just saying they can't make black holes as that involves other factors. Why are you so against this anyway? Yeah it is magical but anything's possible so someone can always argue for a viable solution, and as this is a kids story, should we try to teach them about science and not chalk it up to magic?
  15. So would a Kakama Nuva grant the user Sonic powers? For that matter, wouldn't having power over Air or Water allow the same thing? Sound is vibrations through a medium, so if you can control that medium wouldn't you be able to make sonic blasts? How does ice being crystallized keep a Toa of Water from controlling it? If a Toa of Air could control liquid oxygen, what's stopping a Toa of Water from controlling, well, crystallized water? That's my point about Toa of Shadow. If they create "shadow blasts" then if you're taking a scientific approach all they're doing is absorbing or redirecting photons from a specific place. Isn't this just a Toa of Light's power in reverse? On top of that, how is that even remotely threatening? At most they could make it so you can't see and feel a bit cold. I likened Shadow and Gravity because a black hole also absorbs photons, because it has sufficient gravitational pull. A Toa of Shadow would need to have something like that power that exclusively works on photons in order to create any kind of "darkness". BIONICLE vs. science is going to fail because, as the good old saying goes, real-life physics don't apply in BIONICLE. What is protodermis? What elements is it made of, and why does it count as water? Is it just hydrogen and oxygen? If so, how can it have such a massive strength-to-mass ratio that it can support a planet-sized robot, which should've crumpled under its own weight before it was even completed? What's the scientific reason that carving this material into mask shapes gives the wearer additional magic powers? Does protodermis just have the inherent ability to filter breathable oxygen from water, or hover, or move fast, or project barriers? How? How does combining six elemental powers create this material? Okay mr cynic then if a Toa of water can control water vapor and part water part protodermis solution and this was an acquired skill then by all means a Toa of air can defiantly control liquid oxygen.And a black hole isn't made of ambient darkness or gravity so that doesn't make sense, it's the aftermath of a supernova... And if a Toa of water can control water vapor then the only explanation for ice is that it's crystalized. Besides, drawing water out of air is the same as drawing air out of water. Oxygen is not actually air. Air is comprised of multiple chemical elements. Black holes produce a powerful gravitational pull, so if they can suck in photons via gravity, so can a wielder of gravity itself. Water vapor is still a fluid. Have you considered that as being an explanation? I know oxygen is not air, it's a component, it was an example. But protodermis is a liquid and helryx can't manipulate it, so it not Toa of liquid or gas, it's Toa of AIR so air must mean oxygen, and by default liquid oxygen. Also have you considered even if Toa of air cannot manipulate liquid oxygen, they can compress it into a liquid using more air and or by lowering the tempature by changing the outer air density. Yeah, I get a Toa of gravity could bend photons, thats not the question. The question was could they create black holes and I said no because that requires a supernova of energy, certain types of mater, and other external factors. What do you mean water vapors a fluid? It's a gaseous form of water, like liquid oxygen is a liquid form of oxygen found in air...
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