Official Elements Guide, Hosted by Fact Team member *onua nuva* fan Options

[The Power that I...]

I think if you absorbed vacuum then matter would become more compressed, creating a sort of explosive force outwards as the air or what-have-you got denser...

[The Power that I...]

Razor is just sharp things, so it sounds like too powerful an element.
Example: Toa Harsura looked to her left, only to see a flurry of throwing knives coming towards her. "Oh, snap!" she shouted as she absorbed the knives into her body. Huh? It just doesn't work.

Ah, but she wouldn't absorb the knives, just their sharpness. She'd still get hit by fast-moving blunt objects, which is just as painful (which is why bullets don't have to be sharp).
A Toa of Iron could just absorb the knives, so does that make Toa of Iron too powerful? And what about a Toa of Magnetism who could just hurl the knives aside?

And mutations are a key part of life. We get them all the time, from real-life stuff like tumors to the more fantastical X-Men type mutations which don't really happen but make a great reading material

This post has been edited by Last Stand's Alpha Wolf: Jun 12 2008, 11:54 AM

[Lemon Curry?]

But Razors, or Sharpness is not a "piece of life" (The definition of Element). Sharpness is artificial, and the only way to manipulate it would be making it duller or sharper. And what would you even do with absorbed sharpness? That would be incredibly useless. All other elements we know of have to do with some form of energy or objects, not just a particular aspect of the object.

Is a Toa of Plasma able to manipulate molten protodermis?

This post has been edited by Kaeton: Jun 12 2008, 02:11 PM

[The Power that I...]

Cactus spines are naturally sharp. As are animal horns and claws.
And I imagine absorbed razor would have the same use as absorbed fire. Storage for later use

This post has been edited by Last Stand's Alpha Wolf: Jun 12 2008, 02:40 PM

[Aqua Iruini]

Cactus spines are naturally sharp. As are animal horns and claws.
And I imagine absorbed razor would have the same use as absorbed fire. Storage for later use

I'm sorry, but I think "Razor" would be a terrible element. You can not absorb a property of something. In fact, it's not even a property, but rather the shape of something. Unless you said everything was extremely blunt in the BIONICLE universe and sharp thing were coated in a "Razor" energy, which would be ridicously confusing and would most likely make even less sense to the target age than something like Space. Also, compared to a tree trunk, a stick would be considered sharp, as sharpness is just a fineness and strength in an object.

Aqua I

But Razors, or Sharpness is not a "piece of life" (The definition of Element). Sharpness is artificial, and the only way to manipulate it would be making it duller or sharper. And what would you even do with absorbed sharpness? That would be incredibly useless. All other elements we know of have to do with some form of energy or objects, not just a particular aspect of the object.

Is a Toa of Plasma able to manipulate molten protodermis?

No, because molten protodermis is nowhere near plasma. Plasma is the stuff lightning and the Sun are made of. It's a whole different form of matter.

Cactus spines are naturally sharp. As are animal horns and claws.
And I imagine absorbed razor would have the same use as absorbed fire. Storage for later use

I'm sorry, but I think "Razor" would be a terrible element. You can not absorb a property of something. In fact, it's not even a property, but rather the shape of something. Unless you said everything was extremely blunt in the BIONICLE universe and sharp thing were coated in a "Razor" energy, which would be ridicously confusing and would most likely make even less sense to the target age than something like Space. Also, compared to a tree trunk, a stick would be considered sharp, as sharpness is just a fineness and strength in an object.

Aqua I

I agree.

~Zhalath

[The Power that I...]

I don't think those last few sentences were called for. I thought we were having a friendly debate, not a vitriolic arguement, but if it's bugging you I'll drop it.
I still think it would work as an element though

And I still disagree with you.

Has nobody considered Entropy as an element? Everyone seems to be ignoring me about this.

~Zhalath

Meh, I think the main problem is everyone was fixated on it being a shape. I tried getting us away from that by asking AI to draw a sharp, but apparently that didn't work.
I don't see a sharp knife as coated in Razor energy, no. That does indeed make no sense. I see it as containing Razor energy, in the same way a stretched elastic band contains Elastic Potential Energy. The shape of the thing is not altered at all, merely its potential to slice cleanly through something.
But I digress.

Entropy mainly seems to mean disorder, sort of the opposite of effeciency. So would a Toa of Entropy have the same abilities as a Mask of Possibilities?

[lhikan864]

So would a Toa of Entropy have the same abilities as a Mask of Possibilities?

No, how's it the same?

[The Power that I...]

Back on topic, I don't even think Sharp works. It doesn't.

Yes, you said
It would be helpful if you could say why instead of just repeating that you don't like it, though.

[Toa Lhikan]

Sorry the reference is actually for Action League Now, funny stuff.

Back on topic, I don't even think Sharp works. It doesn't.

Yes, you said
It would be helpful if you could say why instead of just repeating that you don't like it, though.

Hold on, I'll pull up some reasoning.

In fact, it's not even a property, but rather the shape of something. Unless you said everything was extremely blunt in the BIONICLE universe and sharp thing were coated in a "Razor" energy, which would be ridicously confusing and would most likely make even less sense to the target age than something like Space. Also, compared to a tree trunk, a stick would be considered sharp, as sharpness is just a fineness and strength in an object.

Personally, I don't think Sharpness is an element. It's more of a quality. It doesn't have that "feel" of an element that other elements do.
Also, what does Sharpness energy look like? What does firing it on an object do? What does a Sharpness Nova Blast look like? Answer those questions!

Didn't want to repeat myself. Sharpness fits awkwardly as an element, if it does at all. Sharpness doesn't have an elemental form. It's not matter(Iron, Water, Stone, Earth, Ice, Plasma, Air) it's not a chemical reaction(Fire), and it's not a force(Magnetism, Gravity). It's simply an attribute of other elements.
And how can you have pure sharp? For "Sharp" to exist, it must be part of something else. Therefore, whatever it's part of, it falls under that element's jurisdiction (sharp knife is Metal, sharp stick is Plant Life, sharp icicle is Ice).

~Zhalath

[The Power that I...]

I explained earlier how I didn't picture it as changing the actual shape of something, rather giving something better potential to cut something. Like how a thrown rock at the zenith of it's flight will have greater Gravitational Potential Energy than when it has fallen.
That's a cruddy analogy, I know. Perhaps an example will work better.

Fire a bullet at a window, and it will simply shatter the window. Get a Toa of Razor to imbue the bullet with a little elemental sharpness, and although the shape of the bullet won't have changed, it will now simply bore a hole straight through the window

I explained earlier how I didn't picture it as changing the actual shape of something, rather giving something better potential to cut something. Like how a thrown rock at the zenith of it's flight will have greater Gravitational Potential Energy than when it has fallen.
That's a cruddy analogy, I know. Perhaps an example will work better.

Fire a bullet at a window, and it will simply shatter the window. Get a Toa of Razor to imbue the bullet with a little elemental sharpness, and although the shape of the bullet won't have changed, it will now simply bore a hole straight through the window

But if you're not altering the substance, it's not sharp. It could be comparable to giving it kinetic energy, but not really. Giving it better cutting potential is like a mask power, but not an elemental one.
You're not making a lot of sense.

And remember that the Bionicle definition of energy is different form ours.

~Zhalath

[The Infection]

Plasma melts.

But can a Toa of Plasma melt... himself?

Idea for new element, momentum (or velocity, or movement, or mechanics, or whatever). Feel free to ram it into the ground. Or maybe love. You make people love so much that they die or something.

Edit: I'd just like to clarify that I know that the terms I used up there have different meanings. Momentum is the component of mass and velocity, veloicty is speed with direction, movement is the change in displacement and mechanics is the umbrella term for the previous terms and some more stuff. I just listed them for a good idea on what the element would be like. Interpret as you wish.

This post has been edited by i dont like my username: Jun 18 2008, 05:16 PM

[The Power that I...]

I explained earlier how I didn't picture it as changing the actual shape of something, rather giving something better potential to cut something. Like how a thrown rock at the zenith of it's flight will have greater Gravitational Potential Energy than when it has fallen.
That's a cruddy analogy, I know. Perhaps an example will work better.

Fire a bullet at a window, and it will simply shatter the window. Get a Toa of Razor to imbue the bullet with a little elemental sharpness, and although the shape of the bullet won't have changed, it will now simply bore a hole straight through the window

But if you're not altering the substance, it's not sharp. It could be comparable to giving it kinetic energy, but not really. Giving it better cutting potential is like a mask power, but not an elemental one.
You're not making a lot of sense.

And remember that the Bionicle definition of energy is different form ours.

~Zhalath

Stretch an elastic band and you're not changing the substance, yet you are giving it more elastic potential energy. If you want a Bionicle example, then Kopaka can make things cold without actually turning them to ice (a Toa of Razor could make things sharp without turning them into blades).
Giving something better cutting potential isn't the only thing this hypothetical Toa could do though. A beam of Razor could slice through things. I said that earlier. The reason it doesn't make sense to you seems to be because you're not taking my arguements in properly

[The Power that I...]

I explained earlier how I didn't picture it as changing the actual shape of something, rather giving something better potential to cut something. Like how a thrown rock at the zenith of it's flight will have greater Gravitational Potential Energy than when it has fallen.
That's a cruddy analogy, I know. Perhaps an example will work better.

Fire a bullet at a window, and it will simply shatter the window. Get a Toa of Razor to imbue the bullet with a little elemental sharpness, and although the shape of the bullet won't have changed, it will now simply bore a hole straight through the window

But if you're not altering the substance, it's not sharp. It could be comparable to giving it kinetic energy, but not really. Giving it better cutting potential is like a mask power, but not an elemental one.
You're not making a lot of sense.

And remember that the Bionicle definition of energy is different form ours.

~Zhalath

Stretch an elastic band and you're not changing the substance, yet you are giving it more elastic potential energy. If you want a Bionicle example, then Kopaka can make things cold without actually turning them to ice (a Toa of Razor could make things sharp without turning them into blades).
Giving something better cutting potential isn't the only thing this hypothetical Toa could do though. A beam of Razor could slice through things. I said that earlier. The reason it doesn't make sense to you seems to be because you're not taking my arguements in properly

Why would a beam of "razor" slice through a thing instead of giving it a "better cutting potential?

Why would a beam of Ice make someone colder instead of hitting them with a glacier?

Technically... a toa of stone could create a blade of stone, a Toa of Ice can make a razor-sharp ice blade... and a Toa of iron could make a razor-sharp protosteel blade... even a Toa of Water could make the water she manipulates into a razor-sharp thin blade.

Meh, people have argued for Steam or Lava to be elements even though other Toa could create them.
And Toa of Iron and Magnetism can both do similar things with metal, yet they're both official separate elements

[Toa Lhikan]

Sharp also seems too needy, what can they do alone.

Why not just a Toa of physical manipulation? They would be able to manipulate most substances to a certain extent, including making them sharp. I suppose that comes back to me wanting creation as an element though.

I would think manipulation of a material wold go under the jurisdiction of the component element.

~Zhalath

[Adventurer]

That's when you need a Toa of Magma. Otherwise, you run.

You have to admit though that there would be a lot of situations where that Toa would be incredibly useful though.

It doesn't evoke the feeling of a legendary element. Sorry if that doesn't make any sense.

Being able to shape most of the world? It does to me.

You mentioned creation, so I brought up Creation.

~Zhalath

I said there would be a creation aspect to it, but I didn't actually say that it would be creation.

[bonesiii]

*comes in too late to do anything but skim*

I like Razor as a power. As others said, it's not an element. I know I'm the one asking for abstract elements and weird ones lol -- and maybe if Bionicle ever did anything like my idea of "mutated elements" which sort of mix with powers, it might be okay. There's nothing wrong with having new powers, though -- no reason it has to be an element.

Yes, you could take anything that is an aspect of nature, even something that off-the-wall, and say it's an element. What I have in mind when I ask "what new element ideas can you come up with?" though, it's usually more for something that feels like a "material" (or "energy"). Razor would apply to many different materials and energies and is more like a way to shape them specifically rather than a force of nature.

Chaos, void, decay -- element ideas like those seem more like a "material" in energy form. Admittedly creation is a stretch in this way, but even with that, I can imagine that the elemental energy of each type would seem like a material, and its effects would apply no matter what else touched it. Sharpness would be more of a power that reshapes specific types of materials, like metal, wood, stone, ice, and couldn't really apply to water, air, fire, plasma, etc. etc.

And anything like rust, sand, frost, etc. are the main things I have in mind. Seriously, I think Frost as a "super-cold ice" would rock, on the logic that Plasma is almost a "super-hot fire." (Almost, anyways.)

[Vorahk9]

Been a while since I posted here... well, I'm back.

*comes in too late to do anything but skim*

I like Razor as a power. As others said, it's not an element. I know I'm the one asking for abstract elements and weird ones lol -- and maybe if Bionicle ever did anything like my idea of "mutated elements" which sort of mix with powers, it might be okay. There's nothing wrong with having new powers, though -- no reason it has to be an element.

Yes, you could take anything that is an aspect of nature, even something that off-the-wall, and say it's an element. What I have in mind when I ask "what new element ideas can you come up with?" though, it's usually more for something that feels like a "material" (or "energy"). Razor would apply to many different materials and energies and is more like a way to shape them specifically rather than a force of nature.

I agree-- razor, or "sharp", as it has been referred to, is definitely not an element. Think about it: you could have rocks that are "razor sharp", but that's not an element. Ice shards can be razor sharp. SO can just about any element. As a power, I think it would be okay, but it wouldn't really work as an element.

Chaos, void, decay -- element ideas like those seem more like a "material" in energy form. Admittedly creation is a stretch in this way, but even with that, I can imagine that the elemental energy of each type would seem like a material, and its effects would apply no matter what else touched it. Sharpness would be more of a power that reshapes specific types of materials, like metal, wood, stone, ice, and couldn't really apply to water, air, fire, plasma, etc. etc.

And anything like rust, sand, frost, etc. are the main things I have in mind. Seriously, I think Frost as a "super-cold ice" would rock, on the logic that Plasma is almost a "super-hot fire." (Almost, anyways.)

Thinking about it, Frost might actually work, as a "cold version" of Plasma. Where plasma melts things, I guess Frost would freeze things, and pretty much just do an "ice version" of whatever plasma can do. Interesting thought...
-Cressona

Well. I've got a nice list of Elements that we can all debate upon with a nice cup of Tea...

-==Elements for Debate==-

The Element of Mist.

The Element of Energy.

The Element of Temprature.

The Element of Pressure.

The Element of Chameleon.

--- --- ---

I'll get some more later...

-AngelFlame

This post has been edited by AngelFlame: Jun 25 2008, 04:58 AM

[~KDT~]

Energy is just too overpowered or too obscure, you need to specify what type of energy.

We already have a Toa of Fire and Ice, we don't need one that can only heat or cool down things as each of those can do it themselves.

Pressure falls under gravity.

Chameleon is not an element, it's a power.


We've already discussed mist.

[Xero]

A Toa of (Toa) Energy would be awesome, yet God-like... He could make an army of Toa from Matoran, or take a Toa'spower away...would he be good or evil? Impossible but cool.

[Toa Lhikan]

PLEASE NO ELEMENT OF ENERGY IT IS NOT AN OBJECT IT IS THE ABILITY TO DO WORK NOT SOME GLOWY GLOOP THINGY YOU CAN SHOOT AT PEOPLE FOR MORE INFORMATION LOOK HERE

Gavity and Mag don't shoot "Glowy Gloop."

When I say Toa of Energy, I mean Energy blasts, shields, and beams. If you absorb it, that thing or person would slow or tire.

[Adventurer]

Just other places where I've heard the term 'energy' used. You know, terms like 'pure enrgy' and 'energy blasts' and various stuff that makes no snce. It's just a pet peeve of mine, but I still cringe when I hear it used like that.

Yes, but you didn't answer my question. When was it mentioned here? You seemed to be yelling at everyone in the topic over something which hasn't even been mentioned.

When was it ever said that it would be that?

Just other places where I've heard the term 'energy' used. You know, terms like 'pure enrgy' and 'energy blasts' and various stuff that makes no snce. It's just a pet peeve of mine, but I still cringe when I hear it used like that.

Gavity and Mag don't shoot "Glowy Gloop."

wut

Since when did I mention either of those two? I know what energy, gravity and magnetism is. Gravity isn't energy in the slightest, it's a force which is the attraction between masses, like how the Earth pulls us to itself. The energy comes from the potential for the masses to actually pull against each other, and the movement due to the attraction but gravity itself isn't a type of energy.

Don't get me started on magnetism. Seriously, stress, argh, physics, work gaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. But magnetism, like gravity, is also a force. Magnetism is one of the phenomena by which materials exert attractive or repulsive forces on other materials.

When I say Toa of Energy, I mean Energy blasts, shields, and beams. If you absorb it, that thing or person would slow or tire.

That is what I meant. Energy isn't something you can manipulate into shields or beam because it's not a physical quanity or material. Sure, there's mass–energy equivalence (E =mc²) but that's not going to work well in a kiddies story. I've just seem energy represented in media as some sort of glowy power, and a Toa of 'Energy' would have an ability to control this goopy stuff. That's not energy.

Anyway, if you did absorb an energy blast, wouldn't you gain energy instead of loosing it? I mean, since this blast is actually made of energy, if you absorbed it wouldn't you gain the energy of the blast, have more energy and hence be less tired?

No, but Fire and Ice have control over heat and cold.

I said that in the sentence after you quoted.

Oops, sorry.

Back on topic, I'd advise ignoring most of what you know about physics when discussing Bionicle, or fantasy in general, because of course it doesn't work. At all. It's kind of the point.
Don't think in physics terms, think in fantasy/Bionicle terms. It helps a lot. It's like when I tried to scientifically explain teleportation to myself. It kind of fails.

Motion can hurt at high speeds. And ya, its Kinetics but Energy sounds better.

Energy doesn't sound better. It creates confusion. A Toa of Energy is really ambiguous(what's he gonna do?), but Toa of Kinesis, although some kids might not get it, fits better because it's more specific.
I know Kinesis isn't a word, but it sounds better than saying "kinetics".

~Zhalath

I still say Flux is the bestest name for Kinetics/Motion -- harks nicely back to the MNOG.

I still say Flux is the bestest name for Kinetics/Motion -- harks nicely back to the MNOG.

Flux? Why Flux?
But that would alienate people who haven't played MNOG, like me.

~Zhalath

I still say Flux is the bestest name for Kinetics/Motion -- harks nicely back to the MNOG.

Flux? Why Flux?
But that would alienate people who haven't played MNOG, like me.

~Zhalath

Well --

2: a continuous moving on or passing by (as of a stream)
3: a continued flow
6: the rate of transfer of fluid, particles, or energy across a given surface

Sounds close enough to Kinetics to me -- and of course non-MNOGers would still get the idea; it'd just be a nice reference, and go well with Void, too. To quote the MNOG -- "There is no such thing as Void. All things are in Flux." -- Nuju

And besides, Flux is THE most awesome word ever.

While thinking about the Razor element someone proposed a while back, I thought of what may possibly be a Legendary Element, Properties. It is a fundamental force in the Universe, seeing as it affects all matter. If it was a Mask, and it was destroyed, it would probably change the properties of everything in the Universe, causing massive destruction and stuff. An example of it's usage would be if a Toa of Stone threw a boulder at you. You could simply change the rock from being Hard to Brittle, and you could break it with your hand with a minimal amount of force.

Sounds like more of an element of Entropy or Destruction, which the idea of I'm fine with.

I still say Flux is the bestest name for Kinetics/Motion -- harks nicely back to the MNOG.

Flux? Why Flux?
But that would alienate people who haven't played MNOG, like me.

~Zhalath

Well --

2: a continuous moving on or passing by (as of a stream)
3: a continued flow
6: the rate of transfer of fluid, particles, or energy across a given surface

Sounds close enough to Kinetics to me -- and of course non-MNOGers would still get the idea; it'd just be a nice reference, and go well with Void, too. To quote the MNOG -- "There is no such thing as Void. All things are in Flux." -- Nuju

And besides, Flux is THE most awesome word ever.

Sounds good. And yeah, flux is a pretty awesome word.
"Toa of Flux". Sounds pretty good, certainly better than "Toa of Kinetics".

~Zhalath

Alright then, I have a complete reason for Takua=Matoran of Light. The stuff on the front page in the Takua=Light topic, and...well, just look here for the rest.

~A KMy moment~

This post has been edited by Kaboutops Man™: Jul 1 2008, 09:30 AM

Alright then, I have a complete reason for Takua=Matoran of Light. The stuff on the front page in the Takua=Light topic, and...well, just look here for the rest.

~A KMy moment~

This is the Elements topic. I believe you'll want to continue here: Official Takanuva Topic

I had the idea for a Toa of Psychics/Psionics, who manipulates mental energy, like the power of thought. Feel free to blow holes in my idea.

~Zhalath

This post has been edited by Dark Lord Zhalath: Jul 1 2008, 10:03 AM

[The Power that I...]

I like the idea, but what would a beam of psionics do?

[Turaga Dor: The ...]

Yeah, Psyonics would be neat, but it would need some sort of attack for the most part... Depending on the level of control. Would such a Toa be able to control actual beings, or just read and convey thoughts or emotions?

I like the idea, but what would a beam of psionics do?

Used offensively, it could give you a major headache. It could also disrupt any focus you had.

Yeah, Psyonics would be neat, but it would need some sort of attack for the most part... Depending on the level of control. Would such a Toa be able to control actual beings, or just read and convey thoughts or emotions?

Like I said above, attacks would afflict you mentally, like giving you a migraine, or causing you to hallucinate. If you "pushed" hard enough, you could drive them insane.
With a lot of focus, you could control beings. Note that the element would really only affect sentient beings. However, a Toa of Psionics could perhaps imbue something, say, a Bohrok, with sentience.
Psionics would be more subtel than other elements, probably, considering it only affects minds.

~Zhalath

This post has been edited by Dark Lord Zhalath: Jul 1 2008, 10:36 AM

All Elements are gender-defined within the Matoran species. All Elemental Types are male, except for Water and Lightning. Light and Shadow allow for both genders.

I didn't know that light and shadow were both genders.

Is there a name for a mix of Light and Shadow?

And what was *onua nuva* fan talking about with Rank 5 psion?

~Zhalath

Unofficially, Twilight is the name for a Light/Shadow mix. That's what Greg likes to think of Takanuva

Twilight...sounds good.

What element would the power to affect machines and droids (such as Bohrok or Vahki) go under, if any?

~Zhalath

[The Power that I...]

Well a Toa of Iron or Magnetism could manipulate their mechanical parts, but being able to control them just by clicking your fingers is technopathy, which is more of a power than an element

[Roki]

Whenever it's needed. We can do it right now if you guys want.

Cool, first we need to detemine the colors that will be in the poll.

I assume purple will not be featured in the poll.

Maybe in the future we could have polls for secondary, non-MOCable colors.

Imo Purple is still MOCable, Two Slizer sets using lots of Purple. As Well as loads of Technic.


-Roki