Few people know that the first cds say that makuta put Mata-nui in an ETERNAL sleep.
But something I noticed. Most versions of the before-time said that Mata-nui was SENT down from paradise. So, after reading "AThe little Prince", I realized that, perhaps:

Mata-nui was banished from paradise. Maybe makuta followed him to give him a second chance, by putting him into eternal sleep(aka killing him), so his spirit would be able to go back to paradise, also known as heaven. But the matoran didn't know, and thought Makuta had usurped Mata-nui. So they attacked Makuta, Makuta became offended, and then this whole war thing got waged between Makuta and the residents of the island.

It's unlikely, but possible. What do you think?

Good theory, but it doesn't sound very likely. I don't think Makuta would kill Mata Nui, the eternal sleep is just a spell.

I think it is said on Bionicle.com that Makuta was jealous of Mata Nui because the Matoran worshipped him and so followed him to Mata Nui where he cast a spell to put him to sleep so that he could rule over the matoran.

Who knows even if the Toa are good? And what if Makuta is really the good one and Mata Nui the bad guy.

No, I don't think really this, but it could be possible.

-rah

Well, it is both interesting and posible, and I think both Bionicle 1 and Bohrok awkener had some interesting points. Me, though, I'm still going to believe that Mata-Nui is good.

if Makuta is good then pigs can fly why would he be good and have all the powers of darkness?

hmm maybe like in greek mythology hades isnt the bad god (do not refer to the disney movie they changed the story) hes jucst the god of the underworld and doesnt get much respect?

hm. possible. we don't even know if Tol, or the toa are good. light could be evil or w/e.... unlikely.. but good idea.

As a side note before I begin: wow! Someone else has read The Little Prince! I love that story!

...*cough*...anyway...

I'm not certain if there truly is anything more than a relative good and a relative evil within the realm of Bionicle. Granted, it is always seen as Mata Nui being good and Makuta being evil...yet, what is it that determines this? The Matoran worship Mata Nui, and in turn, Mata Nui cares for them. Makuta was "jealous" of Mata Nui, and so came to the island to put an end to his status over the Matoran.

But it's entirely possible that though jealousy was involved, it was not the initial factor in Makuta's displeasure with his brother...

Makuta and Mata Nui are both highly powerful beings, possibly the very essences of Destruction and Creation within Existence (the universe / multiverses / et cetera). Originally, perhaps, the two were intended to act independently from anything else; they were simply to remain as the embodiment of the forces they represent, and were not supposed to meddle in the affairs of any other beings. In this sense, the two spirits were there to preserve a balance between the forces of Creation and Destruction (or "the Balance" as I'll refer to it henceforth).

At some point, Mata Nui becomes anguished with the idea of not being able to create for himself, and leaves his duty behind in order to fulfill his desire--to create. He lands on the island and does so, and soon, the Matoran emerge to worship him for his actions, though without the knowledge of his former role. Mata Nui then settles-in to become the new role that the Matoran have assigned him, unaware of the consequences of such actions...

Makuta notices that Destruction is left unchecked without the act of Creation to balance it, and soon realizes that Mata Nui has abandoned his duty. Fiercely upset with his brother's irresponsibility and greatly concerned with the state of Existence without Creation, Makuta leaves his position to search Existence for Mata Nui. Makuta realizes his own actions end the other half of the Balance as well, leaving Existence in a state of utter Chaos; this only increases the fury he feels towards his brother.

When Makuta realizes where Mata Nui is, he arrives with the intent to return with his brother where they are needed--by force, if necessary. However, the Matoran regard Makuta as an evil spirit bent on robbing their Mata Nui, and the Creation spirit, caught-up by his followers, regardless Makuta as attempting to merely end his peaceful bliss. Now fueled with rage and jealousy over his brother's adoration, Makuta becomes blind to his original intent, and soon, Mata Nui is cast into slumber...

Long after this, Makuta begins to slowly regain sight of his original purpose: to restore his brother to his duty and restore Balance to Existence. However, partly by jealousy, Makuta realizes that all that has been done by Mata Nui's hand must be undone, so that their departure will leave the island as it once was before Mata Nui abandoned his original role. Thus Makuta begins a process that he sees as the only possible way to redeem their seemingly selfish actions, and begins to unmake the whole of Mata Nui...

In such a theory, the two entities aren't actually good or evil; both are merely doing what they felt should be done, whether it be adhering to the nature of one's essence (to create freely) or adhering to one's duty (to maintain / restore balance to all that exists). Yes, both theories paints Mata Nui and Makuta as flawed...but it's almost an entirely Western theological conception that higher beings are infallible.

So yes, it's entirely possible that Makuta isn't evil at all; in fact, the theory above kinda shows him to be more of a honorable, duty-bound being--traits often seen as those that "good guys" possess. Likewise, with Mata Nui's ignorance of his duties and seeming irresponsibility, the Island Spirit seems to be less of a good guy in comparison...

I like the idea....but I've seen too many shows recently where the bad guy turns out to be just a confused guy doing what he thinks is right.

I want Makuta to be evil. And I want him to intentionally want to bring death and destruction to Mata-Nui. I love a bad guy I can hate...and Makuta fits that role so well.

QUOTE (Dinobot The Maximal @ Jul 8 2003, 03:31 PM)

hmm maybe like in greek mythology hades isnt the bad god (do not refer to the disney movie they changed the story) hes jucst the god of the underworld and doesnt get much respect?

Hummmmmmmmmm,You may be onto something.And maybe if I look out my window I will see pigs flying by.j/k
It just seams unprobible.Shadow=Evil.Makuta is shadow.Makuta is evil.MAKUTA MUST FALL!!!!!!

Hey T-H, I agree. I love a hatable bad guy!

That is a good Theory, but it has one single flaw:

During the Rahkshi saga, Makuta gets a new form with the new Mask of Shadows. Shadow is an apprentice of Darkness. Darkness represents evil, hatred, jealous, destruction, war, rivalry, vice, and unclear future. Anything the opposite of Light, good, love, creation, peace, unity, duty and destiny.

Also, the 7th Toa, Takanuva, waers the mighty Mask of Light. And Light represents (see above).

If they played Good guy to Bad , and Bad guy to Good, then the Toa of Light would actually be the Toa of Darkness, and Makuta with the Mask of Shadows, would actually be the Mask of Radiate.

And, Mata-Nui would be gold, silver or any kind of metal that can Radiate. However, Makuta is almost totally covered in rust and dirt, to hide his darkness within the darkness (get what I mean?). We is affraid that he might be destroyed by the matoran, cause he is in the form of a Matoran! So, he infected the wild, the mighty Rahi to destroy the Toa and the matoran (see above).

QUOTE (Zeurahk @ Jul 8 2003, 08:59 PM)

Darkness represents evil, hatred, jealous, destruction, war, rivalry, vice, and unclear future.

Interesting, but I disagree with your definition of darkness. Darkness is merely what cannot be seen--chaos, uncertainty, opaqueness. A character may be dark without having to be evil, jealous, or vice...though literary examples fail me at this point in time.

But let's take a hypothetical example. A person has her life saved at the last moment from the clutches of oblivion. She lives a relatively happy, normal life for a few years thereafter, and though affected by her near-death experience, doesn't seemed to have been changed by it. Then, after a few years of this thankful bliss, it is finally revealed to her that to save her life, a group of individuals had to sacrifice their own. Now, this causes her not only to wonder about whether or not she was worth their sacrifice initially, but also shatters her world, as she knows now the ignorance that has given rise to her blissful state. She grows confused, questioning if her life was worth everything given, and loses that happiness, it being replaced by despair. From that moment forward, she cannot live with herself for how she acted, and remains self-loathing and loses faith in herself...

To my eyes, at least, this person is a dark person, because she has lost sight of everything...

"Dark" is taken to be synonymous with "evil" these days, yet, darkness is merely an absence of light; an absence of clarity. To be "in the dark" isn't to be in league with the forces of evil, rather, it's taken to be an expression of confused ignorance. Likewise, a dark character need not be evil or full of vice; rather, the character must be overcome with confusion and doubt, expressed in a multitude of ways.

Now that I think of it, was not the narrator of The Raven a dark character? Yet, he was spiteful over the loss of Lenore; doubt and confusion had overtaken him. To use a more recent, more commonly known example...isn't Batman really a dark character (exempting the period of time between 1940 - 1980, I think it was)? True, he fights injustice and whatnot...but all is done out of revenge, rooted in his childhood confusion, fear, and sadness at the loss of his parents? Yet Batman isn't evil...just the Dark Knight.

Darkness isn't necessarily evil, hatred (well, maybe self-loathing), rivalry, or jealousy. It's just...

...being flawed.

One thing - Mata-Nui didn't create the Matoran, he just cared for them. They came from another island completely.

Sorry, but it's the only flaw I can find with this theory.
... Apart from the one that goes " this concept is way above that of your average 8-year old, who the Bionicle franchise is aimed at".

That is both very possible and very interesting. It has one flaw, though - you don't return someone to Paradise when they've been banished from it.

Maybe Mata Nui was banished from Paradise for his evil ways (someone can be light and evil - or dark and good - like Kranix said (BTW, Kranix, excellent way of looking at darkness)). Mata Nui, upon coming to the planet of the Tohunga, viewed the chaos reigning their, with no defined good, evil, light, or darkness. He decided to put an end to the chaos by killing all the Rahi who caused it, and the Tohunga viewed Mata Nui as a benefactor for this. The Tohunga started to worship Mata Nui, and Mata Nui used their faith towards him to do terrible things on the Tohunga's planet (sort of like Annalise in Others See Us). Makuta saw this, and couldn't bear it. So he voluntarily left Paradise, and went to take Mata Nui to the "place opposite of Paradise". Mata Nui put up a fight, but Makuta eventually put him into a deep sleep and imprisoned him in a statue far underground. The Tohunga, however, were horrified at the loss of their "protector", and challenged Makuta. Makuta now felt angry towards the Tohunga for being blind to how he was helping them, and maybe a little jealous too - even good beings desire power. So Makuta started to attack the Tohunga, forgetting his purpose - to safely imprison Mata Nui in the Mangaia, and to return to Paradise. Then the Toa, Mata Nui's guards for if he was defeated by something, came and... you know the rest.

Kranix, that theory is very probable! But now it makes me think... what's good and what's evil? But that's getting off-topic.

I agree with Kranix. The problem is if he did what he thought was right, then the story would end right there. See what I mean. Why would Makuta infect the matoran if what he thought it was good? Because he's Evil.

hmm... that is a very interesting theory, but I don't think it's possible. Makuta was jealous of Mata Nui, so he came down and put him to sleep in anger

oh, by the way, the opposite of love is not hate, it's not caring.

It could be, but most likely not. If Makuta was good, he probably would have tried to tell the toa when he fought them, or the matoran some other time. Even if this is true, he would probably be evil now, because now he's trying to destroy the toa with the rahi and Rakshi.

Seriously, we don't want another Froot Loops commercial. *UN glares at Toucan Sam*
Seriously, that would be odd if Makuta, all destruction, was good. And if Takanuva taught him to be good, then *coughbarfcough*.

Yeah,it is possible,but Xrahkshi and Zeurahk,consider this,in Egyptian Mythology,Anubis is the god of the underworld,well he's the lesser god of the underworld,and looked over mummification,he has the elemental power of darkness,but he is good,just cause something has the elemental power of darkness doesn't mean it's evil......

Ok, ok, so I was wrong about darkness being that evil. But bad guys usually use that darkness to defeat the good guys. In most comics, there are really dark people. And people who look dark and are good. Take Nightcrawler for example. He looks alot like a demon, but he is deeply religous and is good. There are also light people who are bad. Like Emma Frost from the X-men, she is evil for awhile, but then she is good. It just comes to show you that

QUOTE

No one is what you think they are.

Or

QUOTE

Looks can be decieving.

hmmm just a thought, there could be somthing in this, i mean didn't somone say that the combiner of Makuta and ToL are gona show up in the film... well perhapse ToL sort of perswades Makuta to join fources, and destroyth Rahkshi...coz they got to powerfull ...well just a thought
~bio man(ger)

Well, it works except for the fact Bionicle Fan#1 brought up. And it doesn't sound like something that would happen in Bionicle.

QUOTE (Zeurahk @ Jul 8 2003, 07:59 PM)

That is a good Theory, but it has one single flaw: During the Rahkshi saga, Makuta gets a new form with the new Mask of Shadows. Shadow is an apprentice of Darkness. Darkness represents evil, hatred, jealous, destruction, war, rivalry, vice, and unclear future. Anything the opposite of Light, good, love, creation, peace, unity, duty and destiny. Also, the 7th Toa, Takanuva, waers the mighty Mask of Light. And Light represents (see above). If they played Good guy to Bad , and Bad guy to Good, then the Toa of Light would actually be the Toa of Darkness, and Makuta with the Mask of Shadows, would actually be the Mask of Radiate. And, Mata-Nui would be gold, silver or any kind of metal that can Radiate. However, Makuta is almost totally covered in rust and dirt, to hide his darkness within the darkness (get what I mean?). We is affraid that he might be destroyed by the matoran, cause he is in the form of a Matoran! So, he infected the wild, the mighty Rahi to destroy the Toa and the matoran (see above).

But that's what I mean; shadow can mean WAY more than what you listed, but according to that, you would think he's evil, it's called a misunderstanding, and the matoran had a very big one.

But I still think Makuta's evil, it's just a theory; I feel sorry for anyone who is unable to have a tiny theory without destroying their beliefs.

Makuta is evil he is trying to destoy evrything he has the mask of shadows and the infected mask he does not like peace isn't that enough proof?

oddly this sounds familarly like a topic called Makuta: Misunderstood?

Anyway, you need a bad guy who you can hate what he does and hate him(i can't settle for just one of those) You just have to have it. I mean, what would the bionicle storyline be like if the toa entered makuta's lair to find that he is just confused. It would drive alot of the extreme bionicle fanatics. The only people left would be people with this false compassion. They would feel sorry for him. And besides if makuta was good then the toa would be bad and it would mess up the story line. The good guy are always supposed to win and if makuta was good then the bad would win. Great i got myself confused again. i'm gonna eat a donut now. Bye.

V

Well then why would the great beings send the Toa to liberate Mata Nui? Plus if he was good wouldn`d have anouced it to the matoran? See there are a few gaps in your theorie.

Whoa! Makuta good? In most of the descriptions it says stuff like he's the ultimate evil (or something like it). And how could a good guy try to destroy living things like the Matorans by controlling another force, such as the Rahi. Makuta sounds pretty evil to me....

And besides if Makuta is good, that means the Toa are evil, therefore the great spirits are evil too, so either way Makuta is an enemy of the great spirits. *huff* *puff*

Has anyone noticed that Makuta hasn't actually destroyed any matoran yet? I also think that Makuta is really the evil side of Mata-nui and was the reason he was sent down from paradise.

Its a good theory, but if makuta's not the bad guy, then who is? just look at his mask, the mask of shadows, it doesn't sound like a mask the good guy would wear.

Lord Lupus put it well-this is a story for 8-year-olds. Can we expect LEGO to go this deep? Makuta and Mata Nui are like the poles of a magnet, whatever one is, the other is not in character. There have been too many topics like this, and it cames down to philosophy, whether you believe in right and wrong, and I for one, do. Mata Nui stands for all that is good, and Makuta for all that is bad. They are infalliable in character, however, te Matoran are not. Makuta said at the end of the MNOLG1 that the Matoran were builders, but if you look deep into their hearts, they also have the power to destroy. Maybe we could see some Vader style temptation to the Dark Side by Makuta.