Wow. I genuinely have no idea what leaps and bounds you had to make to reach that conclusion. So it has to be about race instead of the fact that he's a major character of series 8, whom Clara has grown incredibly attached to and is willing to travel to the afterlife just to rescue? Forget the several episodes of character development and relationship building that would supposedly bring them to such a point, this is only because Moffat is a racist?

I don't think Moffat is the greatest writer ever, in fact I can think of a few logical issues in that episode alone, but you're really looking for problems in the wrong places.

Yeah, sorry, I'm with Automaton; I don't think that this is a legitimate criticism. Moffat is actually a really terrible writer for his atrocious pacing and blatant plot holes, not for highly questionable racism.
 
Would this be solved if Danny were white? Yes, but then that would bring up questions of representation and Moffat gets labeled as a racist there too. There's no winning in this scenario.
 
If you're looking for legitimate Moffat criticisms, be my guest, because I'm behind you all the way—but saying that he's racist because he killed off a black character is depriving the episode and the series of its needed context.

You know this episode had a lot of leaps of logic at several points. Compared to what you're saying though those leaps in logic make more sense.

Look man moffat has a ton of problems with writing (cough* To kill the Moon *cough). But suggesting he is a racist because he killed a character who just so happened to be black is not so much pushing it as it is going full speed off a cliff of illogic.

There's a lot of stuff here is valid and I think I didn't convey my point particularly well here, but my point was more that Danny is the sole PoC main character at the moment (Courtney is a recurring character, although I'm not sure if she counts as a main character yet?), and also the only one since Moffat has taken over the show (which is pretty racist in itself tbh), and if Danny is permanently killed off this does mean that his sole PoC main character was also the first main character in his run of the show to properly be killed off (Amy and Rory being a case where they technically died but he went to ridiculous lengths to avoid actually killing them and gave them a full life through a plot point that I'm still not sure really makes any sense?). I realise that what I said was a little too short to get this across, but I hope that this clears things up. I don't think that Steven Moffat is racist because he killed a black character -- I think that he's already racist because this is the only black main character that has been on his run of the show, and I think that if this main character is the first one to be properly killed off then yeah, that's pretty racist too. If he either hits a reset button or brings Danny back, the second part of that point is irrelevant, because at that point it's just ordinary bad writing, and I will concede that Moffat is actually trying to fix how whitewashed Doctor Who is (and was before him).

I hope this makes what I was trying to say a bit clearer.

I don't actually have anything to say since I haven't seen the finale, but by putting everything in spoiler tags I can make it look like I have!

First you complain about not liking Danny, then you complain when they kill him. Otherwise, the points of others who posted here make sense.

Okay I know you don't mean this but whenever I hear the term PoC it always makes me think of this. Feels like you're grouping non-whites into one group because they're not white which is racist but whatever.

I hated Courtney. She was fine in the robot episode but in to kill the Moon she did nothing and I found her pretty annoying. Then again I hated everything about To Kill the Moon.

Technically dead is still being dead. Also do we know if race was a factor in killing off Danny? If it was than you're right, but so far I don't think it was a factor. Unless you could provide some reason as to why you think it was a factor. Eh maybe I'm missing something. I don't know.

...? Really? For someone who is a racist he sure gave a lot of depth to a non-white character. For a racist, Moffat made the black guy a pretty important character. If Moffat was a racist why include numerous Black characters in several episodes who were not only sympathetic but also pretty helpful in saving the day? Again I'd like to see what makes you think race was a factor in killing off Danny. I might be missing something here so please fill me in.

I think you made your point a bit more confusing. Not sure if that's what you were trying to do.

Yeah, I'm sorry but your argument here is kinda silly given the fact that my issue with Danny is and always has been the way he's written. I've always wanted to like him, and I feel he has a huge amount of potential as a character, but I dislike the way he's treated by the writers. That's not a dislike of the character, and making a point based on a fragmented and incorrect presentation of someone's argument isn't really a great way to go about things, although I'm sure that wasn't your intention.

For instance, here's a quote about this actually from my blog:

also, danny[/size]

i really want to like him, guys[/size]

i really do[/size]

can he just be a nice guy[/size]

why can't he be nicer[/size]

I'm sorry, I had a really huge, really detailed point-by-point response to this but it got eaten by my computer and I'm gonna have to summarise, but please bear with me.

- Referring to Danny as the only PoC main character: Danny is the only main character under Moffat who isn't white, and that's something I felt should be taken into consideration, as I'm pretty sure I have referred to him as the only black main character elsewhere (although I do apologise if I haven't). It's not equating or grouping them together -- it's pointing out that he is literally the only main character who isn't white, although I understand the point you're making.

- Courtney: To be perfectly honest, I'm not huge on Courtney either, although a lot of her reactions in Kill The Moon were pretty reasonable for a kid who was completely unprepared for it, unlike almost everything else in Kill The Moon because seriously, that episode was awful (Jenna Coleman's acting in her confrontation with the Doctor and her confrontation with the Doctor were excellent, though, which only makes me more upset that it was completely glossed over in the next episode).

- Race as a factor: Okay, I have two points to make here. First of all, I don't have any hard evidence race is a factor, although I have very little faith in Moffat as regards race and I will be explaining why under the next bullet, but I think it should be taken into consideration that even if racism is unintentional, it is still racism. Killing off your only black main character (if Moffat does, and this whole post has been made around that and I did acknowledge that he would probably just be bringing him back even in the original post, the only reason for questioning it being the rumours of Clara's potential departure) does come across as racist, at least to me, especially in the context of Moffat's steadfast refusal to include meaningful deaths in the show. And there's a funny thing about technical death in this case -- Amy and Rory died, but they lived full lives and died of old age. That wasn't them being killed off, that was them being sent back in time and living. In this case, Danny was hit by a car while still a young man and may be turned into a Cyberman, which is completely different (and frankly reeks of the Stuffed Into The Fridge trope).

- Sympathetic black characters: Okay I'm not entirely sure why you've capitalised 'black' but whatever, I'll roll with it, it's entirely possible I'm unaware of something. Here are a few examples of black characters and other PoC in Doctor Who and Sherlock, the two shows of his I'm most familiar with, prior to the current season where we've had the resurgence (although little bits continue to seep through, like the kids skipping loitering by the house in The Caretaker and a black actress being chosen to play Courtney, the 'disruptive influence', just as was for Mel before her). If you have any more that you feel were played more sympathetically (although again, I do think that the most recent season has been better and that's why I haven't complained about anything specific to racism when it comes to Danny prior to now), feel free to add them. Anyways (and a reminder that as showrunner, even if Steven Moffat has not written these episodes they have had to go through him in order to be approved given his word is pretty much final):

Doctor Who

- Liz Ten: both complicit and the cause of the Star Whale's slavery. Not racist in and of itself, but for the first black character introduced in the show, it doesn't exactly set up a great precedent.

- Tricky, Bram and Gregor of Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS: Depicted as unscrupulous and unintelligent common criminals. I don't think I need to clarify why this one's a stereotype.

- Mel: Again, a case where the racism may not have been intentional, but alongside incorrectly being labelled a 'psycopath', Mel's character is not depicted as in any way good. In fact, like Courtney and the students in The Caretaker, she is shown to have been a disruptive influence in school, and to be downright murderous now. So when does she change her ways? Oh, yeah, after she regenerates into a white woman. Intentionally racist? Probably not. Containing some unfortunate implications, especially in the context of other PoC characters under Moffat (as few of them as there are)? I'd say so, at least, although you are free to disagree with me.

Sherlock

- Sally Donovan: Okay let me get this straight first off, I love Sally. It's very impressive that she seems to have a pretty high position in the police force despite the misogyny and racism that prospers in such institutions, and she's one of the few people who's willing to stand up to Sherlock. But when she stands up to Sherlock, it's treated differently than if Molly or Mrs Hudson complains about or stands up to Sherlock. Everything in the narrative seems to be framed to turn us against her for this -- in fact, we're expected to support Sherlock as he undermines her in her workplace by bringing in her personal life, criticising her for her affair with a married co-worker (to whom he doesn't address this, despite the fact that he's the one with an existing commitment) in front of her colleagues. When she points out that there is evidence suggesting Sherlock is a suspect in an investigation, we're expected to be against her, despite this being a reasonable conclusion given the information available to her. Thankfully, the last series has shown her a little more sympathetically, although we also saw very little of her.

- The Blind Banker: yeah i'm not gonna be able to cover everything here, and I'd recommend googling it if you're interested in the issues with it, but here is an excerpt from the script that should give you a decent idea of what I'm talking about right off the bat (underlining isn't mine, although is relevant): http://41.media.tumblr.com/94a4c5cfc0cfc03b4ea2395ccac5a0ae/tumblr_mvptacteLk1rx7w9ho2_1280.png

As mentioned before, there is so, so much wrong with The Blind Banker, I just don't have time to cover all of it when other people have done it before me and likely better than I could.

I do think that Moffat has been trying to improve the diversity in Doctor Who, and I think that's a good thing. I do, however, find it worrying that it's very possible right now that Danny could be permanently killed off and that this was the end purpose of his character, and that's what I'm talking about here. However, I hope this provides a bit more context so that it's more understandable that I would see Steven Moffat as a racist, although I will happily admit that he has improved his treatment of black characters in the show, and I applaud that. This is a response to what would be a step backwards, and again one that I don't think very likely, but one that we seem to be meant to believe as the narrative currently stands, and one that would make sense to the end purpose of removing Clara (although I really hope that she leaves due to the damage to those she loves and to her own attitudes, rather than making it more specific to Danny and it being because she didn't believe him and/or because he didn't want her to travel with the Doctor [EXCEPT IN KILL THE MOON, BECAUSE WHY NOT], because yeah I'd really like this to be Clara's own decision rather than one made by her relationship with a man, and that's the kind of thing that Moffat would do and has done before) -- that Danny is beyond rescue. Again, I hope that this helps to clarify things, and I hope that it does so better than my previous post. I apologise for any confusion it may have caused.

What I meant was the usage of the term PoC in general. Probably miss wording ony my part.

Except I could remove her from the episode and very little would change. Inb4 she is the reason they went to the moon. I could easily say the Doctor got a distress call from the moon in the year 2049. She hardly did anything aside from kill a bacteria which was pure dumb luck anyway. Clara could have done that. The trained military lady could've easily done that.

Here is where you have shot yourself in the foot. You have admitted that you have no hard evidence that race was at all a factor. So now we are only relying on speculation, which in the grand scheme of things mean nothing. To add to that we're relying on speculation from only one person. All points about racism can be considered moot because of this. But hey that's just me.

But without hard evidence, why should I believe you? You haven't provided any substantial conclusive evidence to prove Moffat is indeed a racist. All we have is a guess from you.

It doesn't change the fact they still died. They were still killed off because in the end they died. Also you seem to have a misunderstanding of stuffed in the fridge. Stuffed in the Fridge is when a character is killed off screen to develop another character. In this case Danny isn't technically dead and he also has to face his dark past (his accidental murder of a child). We also learn about Danny's past which counts as character development and he has to now decide whether or not to delete his emotions for clara. So he hasn't been stuffed in the fridge.

Okay that was probably me slipping on the keyboard. Sometimes I accidentally capitalize words.

I Okay, I'm only going to focus on the Doctor Who characters because I don't watch sherlock. Plus I don't feel like I could rebut any points you make without prior knowledge of the show.

First, the Star Whale volunteered and at the end she freed it but the star whale decided to stay because he was pretty chill. Liz Ten only thought she had enslaved the whale. Also worth noting was that she wasn't behind its torture. You seem to be ignoring the fact she was the ruler of the Starship UK. Which is kinda a big deal.

The three of them were heads of salvaging company that seemed to be doing fine. Effectively businessmen in that sense. It takes intelligence to run a business competently. Also I never got the impression they were presented as common criminals. Just three dudes trying to get by. I feel its also worth mentioning the Doctor promised them the salvage of a life time. Maybe I missed something important.

Uhh... that's what the definition of psychopath is. Someone who displays murderous tendencies. She was also Amy's best friend I believe. Okay to be honest I never ever understood what the heck happened here. But I do believe regenerating into River didn't totally end her disruptive behavior. But again maybe I'm missing something.

Forgive me for thinking this but you seem really concerned with making Moffat out to be a racist here. For every step forward he takes, it doesn't seem like enough for you. If he does something that you think is racist he is automatically a racist (though that could be the case that he is racist and it could have flown over my idiot brain). But hey maybe maybe I'm the moron here for thinking that, I've been known to make assumptions so if I'm wrong I will not hesitate to apologize.

The Clara thing: Wouldn't it still be her choice? I mean she did leave because of a man but isn't the point of feminism to give women choices? That's just me though. We still have one more (poorly written) episode left so who knows what's going to happen. Though I think you made you point come across better I will say.

- Ah, okay, that seems clearer looking back at it. My bad.

- I think I'm being misunderstood a little here -- as I said, Courtney's reactions within the episode make sense, I make no excuses for the plot and I do think she could easily have been removed from it (it would've been better for it, too, since we'd lose that incredibly out of character 'not special' line). Her inaction once she was present makes sense, but it doesn't mean that she needed to or should have been present, or that the idea of 'let's go to the moon' was the best response to it. The appropriate response to realising you've insulted someone by saying they aren't special being to do what previous Doctors did after making slip-ups and acknowledge that they were wrong, rather than trying to make the person special (but i'm getting off-topic a little here and this has already become pretty big without unnecessary frills so i'll digress).

- I feel like separating that from what followed it did some major damage to what I was saying; that was not a standalone point. My point was that whether or not there's hard evidence that race is a factor, racism is racism whether it's intentional or not. Also, I can guarantee you that 'speculation' that Moffat is racist is not coming from me and me alone, and that I believe that Sherlock, although you don't watch it, is evidence that Moffat is definitely racist (note the entirely white primary cast [apart from Sally, who as previously mentioned is consistently villainised by the narrative] in a show set in London), and there are an awful lot of essays and blog posts on the internet agreeing with that assertion, although given some of the specifics I don't think it's appropriate to link them on BZP and all I can suggest is that you look them up for yourself.

- Again, I did provide the examples from Sherlock. In my opinion, anyone who doesn't see an issue with the various things I've mentioned here with that show (and the problems that I didn't even cover) has some racism motivating condoning it, and given Steven Moffat's position of power I'm pretty sure that if he didn't like it (or at least didn't take issue with it) it wouldn't be there.

- We appear to have slightly different definitions of what constitutes a character being killed off here, but the fact of the matter is that Doctor Who is a show with time travel. The show has been to many points when characters are technically dead, and it's been to the past where characters who are dead in the present are alive, so I think that two people dying of old age after living out the rest of their lives in a time that isn't the present doesn't really count as being killed off in the context, whereas a young man being hit by a car does, because that's the narrative actively taking away his life. Also, the Stuffed In The Fridge thing: what I meant is that I feel like that's going to be the continuation of it, with Danny's body being a Cyberman and Danny's death used for the sake of Clara's character development (also, afaik Stuffed In The Fridge does not need the death to take place off-screen, just for its purpose to be giving the protagonist character development through grieving over them after the villain has very deliberately displayed them). I realise that this is speculation, but as I've said before most of this blog entry is worrying about unfortunate directions that the plot could easily be taking. And I agree that Danny's character is being developed, and my only issue with that is that it's taken this long and if Clara's leaving, we're going to have very little more time with him. Those less trusting than I might accuse Moffat of trying to avoid his inability to show long-term emotional fallout by cutting characters from the picture before the emotional fallout has to be shown in the long-term.

- Ah, okay. No problem.

- The Sherlock characters were more to provide evidence that it's a thing that isn't specific to Doctor Who, and that Moffat is somewhat of a common denominator (although thankfully Doctor Who is a lot better than Sherlock about it, imo). The Sherlock examples were the only cases of very clear racism, which is why I included them, my analysis of Moffat's writing and showrunning being something that is affected by the context of his other decisions.

- Liz Ten isn't aware that the Star Whale volunteered, so I don't see how that factors in, and while she wasn't actively torturing it she repeatedly chose to do nothing to stop until (until our white protagonists came in and changed her mind). And also thank you for reminding me about her being the ruler of Starship UK: being the ruler of a totalitarian government where they regularly kill (or attempt to kill, in the case of the children) people who dissent or who just aren't smart enough is most definitely not a point in anyone's favour. I almost forgot that point.

- 'Common criminals' may not have been quite the right term (although frankly there was the deal with stealing parts of the TARDIS). My point was more that they are shown to have a business that thrives by means that are heavily implied not to be legal (as is mentioned by the Doctor when they bring in the TARDIS), and that despite their running an effective business they are actually portrayed as though they are unintelligent, ignoring various assertions made by the Doctor who within the context was pretty clearly more aware of what was going on than them and causing themselves and everyone else a great deal of trouble doing so (I don't think blindly following the Doctor is a good idea all of the time, but when you're in someone else's ship, a ship you don't understand, and they haven't given you any indication that they necessarily want you dead [after all, he made it clear that he needed them in order to find Clara], it's probably best to assume they know what they're doing). And there was also their convincing Tricky that he was an android, and if that doesn't strike you as morally bankrupt that's frankly a little bit worrying.

-

Psychopathy (/saɪˈkɒpəθi/) (also known as, though sometimes distinguished from sociopathy /ˈsoʊsiəˌpæθi/) is traditionally defined as apersonality disorder characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, diminished empathy and remorse, and disinhibited or bold behavior.

Mel was brainwashed into a murderous obsession very specifically with the Doctor. Her behaviour doesn't seem disinhibited, and she doesn't lack empathy, as shown by how she seems to actually care for and empathise with Amy and Rory and the fact that she was able to hold back from violent behaviour and mentioning her urge to murder Amy's imaginary friend in the entirety of the time they were best friends (yeah, that episode was weird. and the whole 'you named your daughter after your daughter' thing was just ridiculous). And while her murderous tendencies and lack of remorse do continue beyond it, the narrative frames them as heroic by the time Day of the Moon comes around, and as such within the story the intention appears to be that she was 'fixed' after regenerating into her current form and falling in love with the Doctor.

- As mentioned before, he has displayed racist behaviours in the production of Sherlock, which is the primary influence on me being particularly scathing of his treatment of non-white characters (although frankly, his white characters are awfully written too, they're just better represented and less often vilified). I like it when he takes steps forward, but given my knowledge of his past behaviour I reserve every right to fear that we could be going back in the wrong direction, a fear that's only exacerbated by the fact that I'm happy with the improvements he's begun to incorporate. It's one thing to be disappointed by someone you have no faith in, and another to be disappointed right when your opinion was beginning to change.

- My issue is that Clara, as a fictional character written by men (and solely by men, if you take a look at Doctor Who's writing staff), is not technically a woman making a choice. She is a woman whose choice is being decided by men (and by Steven Moffat in particular), and given that I don't think we can discount decisions that she makes that are more because of a man's influence than because of her own feelings as being feminist. And thank you, I'm glad I came across a bit clearer.