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The Ideal Bzp


Kevin Owens

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Repost of my last entry minus communism.

 

Been thinking since my last entry about the ideal BZP. I present to you Utopia BZP

 

First the whole entire class structure on BZP would have to be reworked. Everybody would have moderator powers. When you would first join, you wouldn't have any. After a month of being on and (hopefully) learning the ropes, the member would be given moderator powers. In order to prevent power abuse, I would have some sort of proposal system for the powers. The members could propose things to do to a topic (Close it, delete it, edit the post etc.) The members would then vote on whether or not that change would happen. If five members were to say yes to closing a topic, then the topic would be closed. Twenty-Five for topic deletion, and ten for edits. If at any time 25% of the votes are no, the change is discarded and nothing could be done. This would allow for lightening fast responses on enforcing the rules.

 

Now there would be two classes above the standard member, the moderator and the admin who would be elected by the members. The Moderator would work just like the ones we have now do. They wouldn't need to have aproval for their proposed changes and could go ahead and make them. Admins would be the same as moderators except they would have the power to suspend the moderator powers from those who abuse it. In order to prevent brand new users who don't know the rules from becoming a Moderator or admin, you would have to be a member for six months to run for Moderator and a year to run for Admin.

 

Now here's how we would elect people to run for Moderator and Admin. Mods would have an election every quarter and Admins every half. Members who have been here for a month and have no bad marks in that time will have one admin recomendation and three moderator recomendations. You would then nominate who you would want to run for Moderator and Admin. Obviously, you can not nominate yourself. In order to be put in the running, you would have to have thirty recomendations for Admin and fifteen for Moderator. When everybody had been elected, we would have a system on who you wanted to be Moderator/Admin from best to worse. Depending on how you rank that person would depend on how many electoral votes he/she would get. The ones with the most points get the position. In order to prevent discrimination, who you voted for would not be announced. The number of Mods/Admins we would have would be dependent on the active membership. The more activity we have, the more mods and Admins we would need and have.

 

Now then, I have no doubt that some users would abuse this system. If for some reason a member believes that a user is abusing his power, a member can attempt to freeze the abusers account by proposing so. Twenty-Five votes for yes and his account is frozen from all moderator abilities and his account brought to the attention of the Admins. The Admins review the case and vote on whether or not his account should be deprived of moderator abilities. Once again, Moderators can bypass this ability by instantly freezing someones account and forwarding the case to the Admins.

 

Now there might be Mods/Admins who abuse their powers. If this is so, a member can protest the Moderator/admin and a case is opened. Fifty votes for yes on a Moderator and his account is frozen and the case brought before the admins. A hundered votes for an Admin in order for his account to be frozen and brought before the other Admins. Once again voting determines whether or not the Moderator/Admin keeps his position.

 

The main changes that his would bring about would be a more democratic BZP. Unpopular staff would be weeded out and more popular ones installed. This would also help prevent against power abuse from the mods. The moderator-members would allow for instant reaction towards rule-breakers and free up the time of the staff for more important things. Of course the time are all tempormental, we haven't seen this system in action so times/votes would need to be increased/decreased depending on what works.

 

Now let's go over some rules I would change for the Utopia BZP. With the new system in place, flame wars could be deftly stopped if they arose. Second, Avatars would be bumped up to 100X100. Staff would not be allowed bigger avatars (that means you Omi. :P) There would be no hard and fast size limit for sigs, they would have to be kept in reason (e.g. no 600X600 sigs.) IF need be we would implement a 450X250 limit. If the dial up users have a problem with this, they have the option of getting rid of avatars and sig images right now. The definition of flaming would be a little less harsh and spamming would be dealt with more harshly.

 

Now then some people have expressed concern that a dictator might attempt to upsurp the Utopia and install himself as a dictator. First, the chance of this happening is much more likely to happen in this current system than the proposed. Second, let me introduce to my little friend. I like to call him Bruce, but you can call him IPB Admin. Basically he works as a back door to the whole site. If the admins get hacked or an admin goes rogue, they use this account to set everything back to normal.

 

So what do you think of the Utopia BZP?

44 Comments


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Seems rather confusing, especially to new members, and what if someone has multiple accounts and uses it to vote for the wrong thing to do in a proposal?

 

I personally don't believe in Utopia.

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Seems rather confusing, especially to new members, and what if someone has multiple accounts and uses it to vote for the wrong thing to do in a proposal?

 

I personally don't believe in Utopia.

Which is why I have the one month buffer zone before the Moderator powers kick in. So that way new members can get a feel of the way things work.

 

We would detect dupe accounts by the same way we detect dupe accounts now. IP adressess. If a member is using dupe accounts in order to get their proposal's through, it would most likely be a six month ban and after they get back there would be a three month Moderator power reduction. The member would not be able to nominate anyone for Moderator/admin and would never be allowed to run for Moderator/admin.

 

I don't believe in Utopia either. However IMO this would be the closest we could get to it.

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There one problem that I can find with your system, which is your Admin election idea for it won't technically work for the people that create this site are paying to keep this place running, so they have all the right in the world to be the Admins of the site. So, electing Admins would only work if this site was ran for free, which it isn't.

 

As well, I have notice that much of your ideas would take much time to do, while in the current system of Bzpower, it would just take having a Staff member of the area to do what needed to be done.

 

Sign.jpg

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There one problem that I can find with your system, which is your Admin election idea for it won't technically work for the people that create this site are paying to keep this place running, so they have all the right in the world to be the Admins of the site. So, electing Admins would only work if this site was ran for free, which it isn't.

 

As well, I have notice that much of your ideas would take much time to do, while in the current system of Bzpower, it would just take having a Staff member of the area to do what needed to be done.

 

Sign.jpg

Congrats. You just stuck upon the major problem with my system. The way I see it, most smaller forums won't take more than 20$ at most to run, so that really wouldn't be a problem. For larger sites like this one, there would most likely need a donation system to be installed. Threat of the site getting closed should be more than enough incentive to donate.

 

Yes, the problem is is that this system would most likely need to be implemented at the start of the forum. I understand that the staff would most likely not want to have the system implemented due to the technical difficulties and such (I honestly doubt this system could be implemented without completly building the system from scratch.) That's why it's called a Utopia. A government system that would require a perfect world with perfect people in order to work.

 

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Again, I like the way you think Desu. Everyone with a blog seems to be running, so we may cause an actual election. But you'd likely get my vote, unless of course I actually do run for the nerd party. I may take a few heeds from this though.

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If this is the ideal, perfect system for BZP (and in most cases for other forums as well), then why don't they act like this?

 

-Omi

There are a palethora All equally important.

 

First Omi, how would you feel if there were elections every quarter and every three months you could be replaced due to the fact that people hate you. Not very good I would think. People in power tend to want to stay in power. I'm not going to lie, if I was staff and there was a movement for this, I would feel very threatened.

 

Second, this format ideally needs a large user base to work sucessfully. Five hundred active members would be the bare minimum needed to have this system work. Most forums don't have this large of a base, thus they can't use the system.

 

Third I quote from a previous post,

 

I honestly doubt this system could be implemented without completly building the system from scratch.

 

The sheer magnitude of coding needed to have this system work is stupifying. We're talking about building a complete system from scratch.

 

Fourth, the staff would most likely not go through with the system. Once again, position is threatened. I doubt B6, Demensioneer, and Bionicle Rex are all that willing to give up their positions in order to bring in an untested, complicated system, and for the most part I agree. They've worked hard for their positions and they should keep them.

 

Fifth, the system is untested and could take several tries to get things stable, let alone work properly. There's also a fair chance that this system could fall flat on its face. People have the nasty tendency to abuse power and it would take a dedicated staff to get the operation started. After awhile it would most likely me self sustaining, but heaven have mercy while everything gets settled.

 

There you have it. Five reasons as to why this system is not implemented on BZP.

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The only reason this system fails is that everyone has moderator powers. With around 37,000+ members, a good 3/4 of that are active and a good margin of that fraction will abuse their power. There is no doubt about that. The system will crumble just with that alone.

 

-Omi

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The only reason this system fails is that everyone has moderator powers. With around 37,000+ members, a good 3/4 of that are active and a good margin of that fraction will abuse their power. There is no doubt about that. The system will crumble just with that alone.

 

-Omi

Once again the votes are temporary. They could be increased or decreased as needed.

 

And I do believe this needs to be stated. This is Utopia. The way things should be, not necessarily the way things are or the way things will work.

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The only reason this system fails is that everyone has moderator powers. With around 37,000+ members, a good 3/4 of that are active and a good margin of that fraction will abuse their power. There is no doubt about that. The system will crumble just with that alone.

 

-Omi

Once again the votes are temporary. They could be increased or decreased as needed.

 

And I do believe this needs to be stated. This is Utopia. The way things should be, not necessarily the way things are or the way things will work.

Regardless the power will still be abused.

 

-Omi

Link to comment
The only reason this system fails is that everyone has moderator powers. With around 37,000+ members, a good 3/4 of that are active and a good margin of that fraction will abuse their power. There is no doubt about that. The system will crumble just with that alone.

 

-Omi

Once again the votes are temporary. They could be increased or decreased as needed.

 

And I do believe this needs to be stated. This is Utopia. The way things should be, not necessarily the way things are or the way things will work.

Regardless the power will still be abused.

 

-Omi

Which is why it is Utopia. Utopia demands a perfect world with perfect people. This is not a perfect world and these are not perfect people.

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The only reason this system fails is that everyone has moderator powers. With around 37,000+ members, a good 3/4 of that are active and a good margin of that fraction will abuse their power. There is no doubt about that. The system will crumble just with that alone.

 

-Omi

Once again the votes are temporary. They could be increased or decreased as needed.

 

And I do believe this needs to be stated. This is Utopia. The way things should be, not necessarily the way things are or the way things will work.

Regardless the power will still be abused.

 

-Omi

Which is why it is Utopia. Utopia demands a perfect world with perfect people. This is not a perfect world and these are not perfect people.

If the people in the Utopia are abusing their power, then how is that perfect?

 

-Omi

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The only reason this system fails is that everyone has moderator powers. With around 37,000+ members, a good 3/4 of that are active and a good margin of that fraction will abuse their power. There is no doubt about that. The system will crumble just with that alone.

 

-Omi

Once again the votes are temporary. They could be increased or decreased as needed.

 

And I do believe this needs to be stated. This is Utopia. The way things should be, not necessarily the way things are or the way things will work.

Regardless the power will still be abused.

 

-Omi

Which is why it is Utopia. Utopia demands a perfect world with perfect people. This is not a perfect world and these are not perfect people.

If the people in the Utopia are abusing their power, then how is that perfect?

 

-Omi

 

Sed people would be quickly eliminated via ban. Also, 3/4? I'm honestly insulted Omi.

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Personally I beleive if this idea was implemented then you'd need to keep all current admins but maybe having one elected.

 

As to all members having moderator power, maybe 3 months instead of 1.

 

Also maybe instead of having total moderating powers maybe they would choose which forums they would like to have the power in.

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The only reason this system fails is that everyone has moderator powers. With around 37,000+ members, a good 3/4 of that are active and a good margin of that fraction will abuse their power. There is no doubt about that. The system will crumble just with that alone.

 

-Omi

Once again the votes are temporary. They could be increased or decreased as needed.

 

And I do believe this needs to be stated. This is Utopia. The way things should be, not necessarily the way things are or the way things will work.

Regardless the power will still be abused.

 

-Omi

Which is why it is Utopia. Utopia demands a perfect world with perfect people. This is not a perfect world and these are not perfect people.

If the people in the Utopia are abusing their power, then how is that perfect?

 

-Omi

You have to be kidding me. We're not honestly going to argue about this, are we? That's why its a Utopia. Because in a Utopia nobody abuses the power that is given to them and everyone works for the good of each other. Actually in a Utopia, we wouldn't need admins or mods because everyone would obey the rules. However this can not be so because people will abuse their power. Utopia demands a perfect society with perfect people.

 

Also, 3/4? I'm honestly insulted Omi.

 

No by all means Omi is right. A large amount of people would abuse their powers. Probably not 3/4th, but a large portion would abuse their powers.

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When I said 3/4, I meant that at least 3/4 of BZP's total members are active (considering most accounts are never even used).

 

A margin of that 3/4 will abuse that power.

You have to be kidding me. We're not honestly going to argue about this, are we? That's why its a Utopia. Because in a Utopia nobody abuses the power that is given to them and everyone works for the good of each other. Actually in a Utopia, we wouldn't need admins or mods because everyone would obey the rules. However this can not be so because people will abuse their power. Utopia demands a perfect society with perfect people.

Cannot say nobody abuses their power cuz there will be that somebody who does. And not everyone obeys rules.

 

-Omi

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When I said 3/4, I meant that at least 3/4 of BZP's total members are active (considering most accounts are never even used).

 

A margin of that 3/4 will abuse that power.

You have to be kidding me. We're not honestly going to argue about this, are we? That's why its a Utopia. Because in a Utopia nobody abuses the power that is given to them and everyone works for the good of each other. Actually in a Utopia, we wouldn't need admins or mods because everyone would obey the rules. However this can not be so because people will abuse their power. Utopia demands a perfect society with perfect people.

Cannot say nobody abuses their power cuz there will be that somebody who does. And not everyone obeys rules.

 

-Omi

Which is why its Utopia. Its unobtainable.

 

You ever get the feeling that you've hit a logic circle?

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Omi- Read Thomas More's "Utopia" to get the point. It's how things should be, not how they are or will ever be.

Go read a pop-up book and mind yourself.

 

You say this Utopia has everyone with Moderator powers. And since someone will abuse their powers, that means someone in the Utopia will not follow. Therefore people in your Utopia will abuse their powers.

 

You can obtain it if you throw out that part and some other stuff.

 

-Omi

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Omi- Read Thomas More's "Utopia" to get the point. It's how things should be, not how they are or will ever be.

Go read a pop-up book and mind yourself.

 

You say this Utopia has everyone with Moderator powers. And since someone will abuse their powers, that means someone in the Utopia will not follow. Therefore people in your Utopia will abuse their powers.

 

You can obtain it if you throw out that part and some other stuff.

 

-Omi

Violence inherent in the system. Etc. Etc.

 

Not everyone in Utopia has moderator powers. The community as a whole has moderator powers. If we throw that out we're basically left with the new election system with mods. That would be awesome to have, but the main utopia point of the whole thing is the community moderator powers.

 

And I don't know how long we're going to go around in this huge argument circle. Utopia is unobtainable for the very reason that you stated, people will abuse power. I am ackgnoledging your point. I understand that Utopia will never work because it demands perfect people.

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