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Updates: Multiverse, Bohrok Kool, My Horrible Memory, Etc.






1) Okay, before BZP went offline, I had been talking to someone, about something, and it came out that I said I would PM Greg and ask him about it. And I can't, for the life of me, remember who I was talking to or what it was about. If you're that guy, please PM a reminder. :P


2) Bohrok Kool contest deadline is extended to September 15, midnight EST (a Tuesday. I like ending contests on Tuesdays, have you noticed? lol).


3) Multiverse stuff is happening fast! First, go read Swert's summary of the behind-the-scenes scoop on the Multiverse. We have a 100-page PDF guide, an 11 slide art Slideshow (see news article for those), a Discussion Topic, a Story Submission Topic, and best of all, the next contest: EMC#3: Denizens!


4) Coming soon, the Industrial Weapons Guide PDF, and the BRC topic. About one third of the way done with the weapons guide. Probably will have another news article once those two things are ready. Maaaybe that update will include the first Cipher Chronicles episode, which I have a (tentative) outline for.


5) Among the Multiverse stuff, we used some of the unknown Kanohi shapes for some of the Multiverse mask powers, and while we were at it, we asked Greg for approval to canonize them. And he approved! (After some confusion from some members who were unsure if he meant it as canon approval, Swert checked, and he did.) Fun fun.


6) While I was at it, I asked him if he could approve the Av-Matoran three masks and Shadow Matoran three masks to be the Noble shapes of the masks corresponding to the Toa and Makuta the Matoran could attach to. He approved this with the Multiverse powers.


Afterward, though, good points were raised about how, at least for the Shadow Matoran masks, that might not make much sense. I had an idea to explain that, but have NOT yet asked him about it. While I'm asking for help remembering that other thing I was supposed to ask him (lol) I figure I might as well ask opinions on this too. This is the relevant part of the PM I have NOT yet sent:


1) Some people are bringing up points about the Shadow Matoran masks I had asked you if could be considered Noble versions of the corresponding Makuta's masks. My question on that part had been:

And while I'm at it, the 2008 Matoran six Kanohi look an awful lot like noble versions of the Toa Nuva's 2008 masks -- and no official shapes have ever been established for Noble Miru, Kakama, or Akaku. Could those six (including the Shadow Matoran three) be officialized as all Noble shapes corresponding to the Toa or Makuta they could attach to?

Which you approved, but the point is, for the Shadow Matoran, that might not actually make sense. If they're wearing the same masks they had been before being corrupted, of course it wouldn't make sense for them to wear evil power-shapes -- even if they're just shapes. Yet, like I said, they do look so very much like the Makuta's shapes.


So I had an idea for a solution. Perhaps the Makuta hate good mask powers almost as much as Toa/good Matoran hate evil powers? So as soon as those Matoran became Shadow Matoran, perhaps the Makuta ordered them to swap their normal masks (whatever they were) for Matoran masks shaped like Noble versions of the Makuta's masks. That way, the shapes would still be considered Noble Jutlin, etc.



2) Another problem brought up was whether Noble versions of evil masks would ever be invented in the first place. What do you think? I can imagine that perhaps Makuta would think of it, just for the purpose of having their slaves have more evil shapes available for Matoran masks, so it's easier to tell slaves apart. (But it wouldn't make sense, as far as I know, for any living Turaga to actually wear Noble versions of those.)

Does this idea make sense to yall?


7) So, we aren't sure enough that it will work yet to announce what it's about, but Ojh is working on concept for another computer game. Proooooobably we'll be using RPGMaker 2003 again. I would describe what we're doing now is "testing to see if we can really do what we want to" phase. If it works, it will involve stuff from weapons contest, denizens, and the next two contests planned for the EM after denizens (next one to be Tyrant species, and the next one not ready to be announced yet). So, it is planned to be a fair time before it's done for that reason alone.



EDIT: Twilight Jack was PMing me about the masks of Vulture and Untranslation specifically; he didn't like them, and since a few people have thought similarly, I wanted to explain what my thinking was, publicly (he has given me permission to quote from our conversation). I have some important points relevant to the whole concept of Bionicle, thought it would be nice to say this on the blog. :)


May I lodge a small complaint? Unimportant in the long run, but just a thought. Most of the new mask titles (the newly canonized ones) seem professional enough, and fit with the overall naming scheme. However, two do not: the Mask of Vulture, and Mask of Untranslation. I don't have a replacement name for Vulture, but wouldn't Untranslation be known as Encryption or Scrambling?


First, my reasoning for Untranslation, which I admit I'm not really sure is best:

For Untranslation, it's a good point. Scrambling is a good suggestion to replace it, and someone else suggested that too. The thinking currently, though, is that a name for a mask that has a power to scramble speech makes sense to be a weird name. Since a name is speech. Also, both Swert and I like the name better than scrambling.


Vulture (the power is basically like in the Eragon books; when something dies, you absorb its escaping energies; it's an evil power, as is Untranslation too):

As for the mask of Vulture, I've seen a few people not liking it, and I'm really confused as to why. The power is directly inspired by Vultraz's name. Also, the power is clearly related to what real-world vultures are -- "eating the dead". If anything, it's the mask power that fits best IMO. tongue.gif Besides that, the very design looks like a Vulture (which is probably what inspired Vultraz's name). So I guess I'm curious why people think it doesn't fit?

I love the power, it does fit Vultraz perfectly. I don't like calling it "Vulture," however. I meant keep the power, it's brilliant, I just don't like the name for it.

I was talking about the (three good) reasons we used the name Vulture for the power. But again, I'm curious why you don't like it? The only reason you've given is that you don't happen to like it. Which is fine -- I'm all about personal taste, but that's subjective. If there's no objective reason not to call it that, you see what I'm asking? Just curious if you can explain why you don't like it. Of course, sometimes with personal taste we can't answer that, heh, it "just is". But yeah, wondered. If there are good reasons to change it we might consider doing so.

Oh, you had to ask. laugh.gif Heh, let's see how to put it...it just doesn't...sound like the rest of the Kanohi titles. Let me go down the list: Mask of Shielding, Mask of Water Breathing, Mask of Levitation, etc.

You see, there's a naming pattern - ings and ions.


Then there are Speed and Strength, which, while not matching the name pattern, are more ethereal concepts than actual tangible things. Same applies to the masks of Fate and Kindred. Then there are those like Concealment and Translation, which are actions. Further, the rest of them have things that are technically "powers": Telepathy, Summoning, Clairvoyance, etc.


There are no masks, however, that use a noun that stands for a creature, like Vulture. Vulture isn't an act, an ethereal concept, an action, or a power. It's a creature.


I think that's why I don't like it. Does that make sense?

I see... well, in that case my answer would be, then Vulture is a challenge, to expand your mind, to look at things in new ways, besides just what you're used to! happy.gif Which is the hallmark of Bionicle -- remember "robots" on a tropical island. So, in that sense, that just makes it even more fitting, to me. smile.gif


IMO, there really is no such "naming pattern" intended. It's just that the clearest, one-word preferably word for power, that fits the feeling of that power best has always been used. In English, there is no word for what the mask of Vulture does, except Vulture itself, which fits the bill the best. So that's the thinking there. smile.gif With levitation, sheilding, etc. those words fit the idea of that power best, thus were used. So, it looks like you may have a bit of a misconception about naming reasoning anyways.


Also, if you look beyond just mask powers, many tools, characters, powers, etc. don't fit into your assumption of naming patterns. There are several Toa tools that are named after animals, many Rahi that are (though of course that makes sense), powers that are, even characters whose Bionicle names -- like Vultraz himself! -- are clearly named after animals. Since Vultraz himself is, so obviously, named after Vultures, I think it's especially fitting for the mask shape he wears.


I think the strong lesson that Greg has always argued for, and tried to illustrate in Bionicle, has always been never to let ourselves fall into an imagination 'rut' where we only accept things that just fit into the pattern we're already using, instead of using our imaginations to branch out and try new things. smile.gif So what you say only further convinces me that the mask is very well-named, and very true to what Bionicle is all about.


So I thank you for bringing it up, regardless. tongue.gif

You have a very good point, and I am happy to accept the name under that intention - to branch out and establish new things. It was just something that was in the back of my mind, that it didn't fit. Now it kinda does.

There was more to the PMs but shortening it to focus on the most important parts. :) And that is my reasoning for Vulture. :)



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Plan right now is for one of them to start as soon as Denizens ends. The other one will be in early 2010. :) Haven't decided which of the two to do first.


Opinions on that welcome.

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Man, up until now I thought that no Bionicle fanfiction universe could be as cool as the Paracosmos, but the Expanded Multiverse is giving it a run for its money in the "superspetacularawesomeness" catergory. I'm especially amazed at how many new mask powers you were able to come up with - and I'm already developing a couple of theories about certain mysteries (mainly the planet Enigma). The only question is: how in the world are you going to be able to manage both this and the Paracosmos? :P

BTW, I'm still wondering if anyone else is going to actually give my Borhok Kool entry some competition. I believe I'm still the only person who has entered artwork, as everyone else has gone the MOC route. In fact, you'll need at least three other art entries for there to be competiton in that catergory as well - if only two other people entered, they and I would all win, as I think I remember you saying that the winners would be divided equally down the two catergories, with three MOC and three art winners. :wacko:

Edit: Regarding your asking for opinions, I'd personally go with Memoirs of the Dead, as it would be nice to do something totally new instead of a repeat of a contest from a few years back, only with different locations. Not saying that's bad, I'm just saying that it would probably be more fun to do the other first. :)

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I'm already developing a couple of theories about certain mysteries (mainly the planet Enigma).

I'm curious. Do tell. :) Not that I could, most likely, comment one way or the other, but yeah.


The only question is: how in the world are you going to be able to manage both this and the Paracosmos?

Well, I have help. :P But I had time that wasn't going to anything in particular. :) I'm sure that won't last forever, though, hence this is planned to have an "end" of sorts years down the road.



BTW, I'm still wondering if anyone else is going to actually give my Borhok Kool entry some competition. I believe I'm still the only person who has entered artwork, as everyone else has gone the MOC route. In fact, you'll need at least three other art entries for there to be competiton in that catergory as well - if only two other people entered, they and I would all win, as I think I remember you saying that the winners would be divided equally down the two catergories, with three MOC and three art winners.

Yes, I was going to bring this up again, and forgot.


I think, though, I should just learn the lesson that from now on, art contests and MOC contests don't mix on the Bones Blog. :lol: If nobody enters any competition for you, you'll be an automatic winner, but not three. :P

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On 08 Matoran masks: I think it's a great idea making them noble. But as to the last part, there have been evil Toa (Nidhiki, Vakama, Tuyet, etc.) that might choose evil masks that would turn noble, should they the give up their power for the greater... bad?

On Vultraz's mask: Vulture should be mask of Death-Feeding IMO. :/

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Hm. Maybe, but as far as we know, or at least as far as I know lol, no evil Toa has yet become a Turaga. I'm not quite sure if that's even possible. A Toa has the option of becoming a Turaga if they achieve their destiny. Wouldn't an evil Toa have abandoned their destiny?


Death-feeding is possible, but then it lacks all of the other good reasons to use "Vulture". It's less concise, it doesn't tie in with Vultraz's name, so doesn't explain his name as well, and it's not poetic, unlike Vulture. And after all, isn't that basically what Vulture means?


It also doesn't expand anybody's horizons. :P

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Grammar is spelled with two "a"s. :P


But no. You might as well argue that "King of England" is bad grammar. It's just you're not used to it. Unless you can show some other reason why it would be "bad grammar"? I can't see any.


And anyways, I'm a grammar rebel, so that sort of logic doesn't work on me. :P

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Guest Thormen


Actually, there is a word for what you say 'vulture' describes: scavenging. Of course 'scavenging' could also be used as a synonym of looking for trash to keep for yourself, but it's foremost meaning is what scavengers, such as vultures, do: eating a carcass they didn't kill themselves.


I can see three cons against the use of the word 'scavenging' though: the first two you already mentioned, namely the fact that 'vulture' looks like 'Vultraz' and that it's a break from the tradition of '-ing's, '-ion's and such; the third problem might be that the mask's purpose isn't actually scavenging, as it isn't actually what vultures do either. The mask's power doesn't rule out the possibility of the user having killed the target, which would make it predation. I somehow get the feeling that with the word 'vulture' it's less obviously a misnomer than with the word 'scavenging', but that could be just me.


Oh and I would've gone with 'encryption' or 'scrambling' instead of 'untranslation' too, as 'untranslation' isn't an actual word, but that's just my two cents, there are enough BZPers out there who may have a different opinion on this.


BTW, I'm still wondering if anyone else is going to actually give my Borhok Kool entry some competition. I believe I'm still the only person who has entered artwork, as everyone else has gone the MOC route. In fact, you'll need at least three other art entries for there to be competiton in that catergory as well - if only two other people entered, they and I would all win, as I think I remember you saying that the winners would be divided equally down the two catergories, with three MOC and three art winners.


I'll see if I have the time and the inspiration. It was fun participating in other Bones Blog competitions, so...

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Heh, I might be a bit late, but I saw the conversations going on here and wanted to add my two pence.


Hm. Maybe, but as far as we know, or at least as far as I know lol, no evil Toa has yet become a Turaga. I'm not quite sure if that's even possible. A Toa has the option of becoming a Turaga if they achieve their destiny. Wouldn't an evil Toa have abandoned their destiny?

Well, I'm pretty sure that Greg has said that becoming evil does not neccesarily mean one abandons their destiny, but can simply mean that they take a different route and achieve it in a different manner than intended.


Also, just because it's frowned upon doesn't mean a good Toa may not have worn an immoral mask in the past, such as if its sheer usefulness outweighs the potential danger like with Gaaki and the Mask of Clairvoyance (that, while not immoral, is certainly dangerous), or if they received the Mask through other means and have not had an oppotunity to swap it such as Matoro's Mask of Reanimation.


I also agree with Mask name changes - Mask of Encryption sounds much better than Untranslation, and Vulture sounds awkward to me too, like Mask of Strong as opposed to Strength. I think Scavenging, Stealing or Thieving would sound better but still make sense. Why go for a name simply for sounding like the name of just one of it's many possible bearers at the cost of simplicity and fluidity? And if you want to keep Vultraz's connection to the name, he is a thief, no?

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The problem with encryption is, it implies an intentional encoding for the purposes of the recipient of a message ONLY understanding it. When what is really meant is better conveyed by Scrambling or Untranslation -- making it so nobody understands it. Although, I'll admit you can make a good argument based on the fact that a Rau nulls the power -- so un-encrypting it, perhaps.


Scavenging was considered, and thrown out for the same reason Thormen said. It implies it's a mask of going around and grabbing random junk, as in from a desert as what's his face... Berix does. Stealing and Theiving are even worse, they imply the mask lets you steal objects. When objects have nothing to do with it.


Actually, I would say Vulture IS simple. It's one syllable, a well-known English word, and beyond that, it's poetic. Not just a "bland" name like other mask names.


I don't think "Mask of Strong" compares. "Strong" is not a noun (well, it can be, as in, "the Strong versus the Weak", but mainly it's an adjective), and grammatically the "Mask of ____" syntax would seem to demand a noun (this is also why -Toa Lhikevikk-'s argument doesn't work; Vulture is as much a noun as "Strength", and even more so). And "Strong" isn't anything poetic or evocative in the same way as Vulture. Besides the other reasons as have been said several times.


As for fluidity, I don't see that. Remember, the name of the power is "Vulture." (It's a poetic name for it, and of course is actually an English translation from Matoran, in which language I presume they would have a clearer word for it.) The "Mask of Vulture" phrase just means "The Kanohi with the power of Vulture". That's a shortening convention used on BS01 for titles, and sometimes in official story.


But in Matoran language, it would be more properly called "The Kanohi Vulture", since in Matoran language the name of the power IS the name of the mask. Whereas, "Vulture" would actually be a different word, Bionicle style, in Matoran language, mind you, NOT a type of Rahi.


Sorry for going on and on about this, but as an English major, somewhat into linguistics, these things interest me. :P


If there appears, to you, to be an issue with fluidity in the translation (I don't see such an issue, but obviously others are seeing it), then IMO that's even cooler, as it makes it that much more realistic. In the real world, translation issues come up like this all the time, where a phrase or a word cannot translate exactly, and so it ends up sounding weird in the destination language, when in the source language, it sounds perfectly natural to those who speak it. :)


In other words, "Death-energy-siphoning" or some such thing would probably be a more literal translation from whatever the Matoran word would be. But that makes for an awful English power name, IMO, so I think "Vulture" is the best translation, on the whole. ^_^


It's a good point about Vultraz being a theif. But the power is NOT described best as theft. So I don't think that one works very well.





On the subject of the Noble masks thing, you raise good points. So you're saying, basically, you can imagine that somewhere out there, a Noble evil power shape could have happened in official Bionicle by a Toa becoming a Turaga? An evil Toa, to evil Turaga? Or even just a Toa who got stuck with that power temporarily getting Turaga-ized while still wearing it?


I suppose that latter idea is very plausible. And then mask-makers among, for example, Brotherhood slaves, could have seen the shape and used it elsewhere for Matoran masks.


I'm not sold on the evil Toa to Turaga idea, though. I thought Greg said that basically never happened. But I guess I don't recall if he said NEVER literally. :shrugs:



Back to Untranslation, another point to consider is, perhaps "un translating" is also not the best description of what the power is doing. Scrambling is a closer one. But it doesn't sound as good, IMO. Is there another, cooler sounding word that would suffice?


As for Untranslation not being a word, as Mr. English Major, sorry, that is a misconception as to how language works.


Words are invented by real people, and then popularized through usage, and dictionaries are merely compilations of records linguists make of the already-existing words. Dictionary writers are NOT the inventors of words, or the judges of "what is a word." And due to length constraints (and sometimes judgemental opinions) , they must make decisions as to how many words they include. That doesn't mean a word they don't list ISN'T a word. It just means they didn't include it in their records.


So yes, Untranslation IS a word. I invented it. ;) (And I highly doubt I am the first to do so, but who knows.)


Pet peeve. :P


It's sort of like a bird book. If you whip out a bird book... actually, a bug book is an even better example. There are so many species of bugs.


If you see a bug, then whip out your bug book, and can't for the life of you find the bug in the book, do you say "well, that bug isn't real!"? No, that would be silly. You understand that your particular bug book just doesn't happen to include a record of that bug. The bug book writer merely reports on observations. The writer doesn't create the bugs, or have any authority over what is "reality" in the bug world.


Same with words.


Edit: And forgot to say... Besides, even if you go with the (wrong) idea that untranslation isn't a word, doesn't that make sense for such a power? A "weird word", and a word that (the uninitiated in linguistics falsely think -- but they DO think it) doesn't exist. For a power that scrambles language.


It maketh sense, don't it be? :P

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I like "encryption" in place of "untranslation."


EDIT: By the way, Bonesiii, I'll accept your argument that "untranslation" is a word, but the problem is that any mask other than a Rau is a "mask of untranslation." "Untranslation" means nothing more than "not translation," and that makes it sound like the mask is named after what it's not rather than what it does. If you don't like "scrambling" or "encryption," I think that "detranslation" would at least be a more appropriate name.

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That's not strictly true -- that would be "nontranslation". :P "Un" creates the opposite meaning, many times. Or a modification of it. Undead, for example. Does not mean "not dead"; that would be "alive". "Not" is usually the prefix "non." Another example, "unlikely", does not mean "not likely" so much as it means the opposite of likely; likely not to be, if you will. But I'll grant you it can mean that. "Unlikely" can mean just plain old "not likely", sometimes, for example.


So it's not a bad point. It's just not neccessarily accurate. "Un" can mean a whole lot more than what you say there.


Detranslation might work too. :shrugs: Doesn't sound as cool to me though. :P But maybe I'm just biased on that. :shrugs:


I wonder if some variant of "cryption" could work, though. "Encryption" doesn't fit the meaning, but "cryptic" does fit it. I dunno. (And cryptic "is a word", while cryption, as far as I know, "isn't a word." :P Which could be good or bad. It also might not be as clear to most English speakers, though, which IMO would be bad.)

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Eh, my head hurts. <.> But sure, I understand most of your arguments, and in retrospect now agree with the majority of them, though I stick with my beliefs on the Mask of Untranslation. At a variant on cryption: puzzling? Obscuring? That's all I can really think of, and not all that good, IMO.


At the Kanohi of Vulture, what I had meant with Mask of Strong was that is similarly sounds awkward in the mouth, or at least to me. I like your arguments that it could be said as Kanohi Vulture seeing as the "of" has never been set as a rule for Kanohi naming, and that there can be a mistake in translation as occurs in the real world. So, for the most part, I've been drawn into your camp. :P


Oh, and I wasn't suggesting that evil Toa have become Turaga, just that we can't rule out them achieving their destiny. Greg has said that even Teridax is still potentially on course to achieve his destiny but is set to achieve it in the wrong way, or something in that vein.

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It also might not be as clear to most English speakers, though, which IMO would be bad.)

I don't know, I was pretty confused when I saw "Mask of Untranslation." (Mostly I think it sounds awkward.) And even if, as you say, "un" can have that meaning, I think the fact that it's not necessarily consistent is enough reason to change it.


Really, I think "Encryption" is the clearest way to go, followed by "detranslation." I can't really see any problems in those two.

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Guest Thormen


True, a word is word once it's been spoken and I was inaccurate when I said otherwise. However, as you said, a word has to be popularized for people to use it abundantly and for it to sound more familiar. Because you just invented a word, other people who read it will find it sounds foreign and strange and they'll repeat what I said: that it's not a real word. Inaccurate as that may be, it is a con against 'untranslation'.


Also, the supposed antonyms of 'translation' don't really fit the description either because the word 'translation' can't have an antonym. Translating something is changing its language from one to the other, so the opposite would be changing the language 'from the other to one', which is exactly the same. What you're looking for is a word that means making something understandable into something incomprehensible, which 'encryption' and 'scrambling' both do (by the way, I consider both of them to mean the same thing apart from scrambling eggs and stuff, seeing as both can mean turning something comprehensible into either something less comprehensible or something incomprehensible).


Or maybe 'obscuring'? I don't think the objections against encryption are valid against 'obscuring'...

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Eh, my head hurts. <.> But sure, I understand most of your arguments, and in retrospect now agree with the majority of them, though I stick with my beliefs on the Mask of Untranslation. At a variant on cryption: puzzling? Obscuring? That's all I can really think of, and not all that good, IMO.

Alright, well, let's just get to the thesaurus and cut to the chase. :P




Main Entry: disarrange

Part of Speech: verb

Definition: disorder

Synonyms: derange, discompose, disturb, get out of order, jumble, mess, mix up, ruffle, scramble, shuffle, unsettle, untidy


Main Entry: disorganize

Part of Speech: verb

Definition: disrupt arrangement; make shambles of

Synonyms: break down, break up, clutter, complicate, confound, confuse, demobilize, derange, destroy, disarrange, disarray, disband, discompose, discreate, dishevel, dislocate, disorder, disperse, disturb, embroil, jumble, litter, mess up, mislay, misplace, muddle, perturb, put out of order, scatter, scramble, shuffle, toss, turn topsy-turvy, unsettle, upset


Main Entry: mess up

Part of Speech: verb

Definition: disorder, dirty

Synonyms: befoul, besmirch, bobble, bollix, botch, bungle, clutter, confuse, damage, derange, destroy, disarrange, discompose, dishevel, disorganize, disturb, foul, goof up, gum up, jumble, litter, louse up, muddle, pollute, ruin, rummage, scramble, screw up, smear, soil, spoil, unsettle, upset


IMO, very few of these really communicate what I mean by untranslation. Trying encryption...


Weird, thesaurus.com doesn't have that one.


Tried "cryptic," got a good one:


Incomprehension -- THAT fits the definition. I wouldn't mind that one. Not as short, but then Untranslation isn't short either lol. I still think Untranslation has more "character", but this one does actually fit, and "is a word".





However, as you said, a word has to be popularized for people to use it abundantly and for it to sound more familiar. Because you just invented a word, other people who read it will find it sounds foreign and strange and they'll repeat what I said: that it's not a real word. Inaccurate as that may be, it is a con against 'untranslation'.

Yes, I agree with that. But then, you don't really know what ANY of the powers are, exactly, until you read the bio. You might hear Akaku called a mask of Vision, for example (though it can be called X-Ray vision, more accurately), and think it's a mask that lets blind people see, or does the same sort of thing that glasses or contacts do. :P You might see "Mask of Strength" and you'd have a hard time misunderstanding that one, but still, you wouldn't know the intensity of it until you read its bio.


And there are plenty of official power names that are just as not obvious. Spirit (Iden), I'd give as the best example. If you know the word Spirit, but see that, you wouldn't know it really means Astral Projection. If you see that as the alternate name, many people don't know those words and might say "that's not a real word" of Astral, or think it has to do with projecting stars onto a ceiling or the like. :P


And you must remember that everything has pros and cons. :) As I am so fond of reminding people.


Actually, though, that example gives me an idea; maybe "Untranslation" could still be considered the official power name (like Spirit), but it could also have an alternate translation of Incomprehension (like Iden's alternate power name Astral Projection; I think I used both of those names for Toa Hanashi's bio in the EM guide, who wears an Iden).



Also, the supposed antonyms of 'translation' don't really fit the description either because the word 'translation' can't have an antonym. Translating something is changing its language from one to the other, so the opposite would be changing the language 'from the other to one', which is exactly the same.

That's not quite what I meant. My line of thinking when coming up with the name was much simpler than this -- "What about a power that's the opposite of Translation? And for the name, follow the same basic naming scheme as Undead, to be consistent."


Translation takes what you do not understand and makes it understandable. Untranslation takes what you would have been able to understand and makes it not understandable. :)


But maybe the bio should be worded more like that?



What you're looking for is a word that means making something understandable into something incomprehensible

Lol that you're using the word (modified) that I just found that I like (didn't see your post before I posted this). What do you think about Incomprehension?


(by the way, I consider both of them to mean the same thing apart from scrambling eggs and stuff, seeing as both can mean turning something comprehensible into either something less comprehensible or something incomprehensible).

Well, the first synonyms listed on thesaurus.com for scrambling are the "scrambling to a spot" definition, which is the first thing I think of too.


Or maybe 'obscuring'? I don't think the objections against encryption are valid against 'obscuring'...

Yeah, that might be good too. It's not as obviously about language as Untranslation or Incomprehension, though.


And Swert says he likes Incomprehension too.

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I'm curious. Do tell. :) Not that I could, most likely, comment one way or the other, but yeah.


Okay, I have two theories on what Enigma exactly is, neither of which that are backed by much evidence at all:


Theory 1: Enigma is a planet that appears exactly how a traveler believes it looks like. Basically, the Toa who supposedly traveled to Enigma (can't remember his name) may have believed the planet to be a paradise, as some rumors claimed, and thus it appeared to him as a paradise. However, if another person believed it was really a total wasteland, then it would appear like that. This is the more "far out" theory of the two, because there really is nothing supporting it besides my overactive imagination. :P


Theory 2: Enigma is a planet run by a secretive and inteligent being who wants to take over the entire Multiverse using brainwashing. This could explain how the Toa that visited Enigma got the technology - the ruler of the planet brainwashed him and gave him some of his technology to spread around the Multiverse, which will slowly or eventually bring the rest of the population under his submission. This theory is the one that makes more sense to me - although it doesn't have really any more evidence than the first, it just seems more logical and feels more like something you would do, Bones. :)


I think, though, I should just learn the lesson that from now on, art contests and MOC contests don't mix on the Bones Blog. :lol: If nobody enters any competition for you, you'll be an automatic winner, but not three. :P


Didn't expect that, so yeah. :P

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Guest Thormen


"Incomprehension" is a fantastic one. I'm getting behind that.


Me too. 'Incomprehension' or maybe 'incomprehensibility'... but 'incomprehension' keeps the tradition of '-ion's, so I concur.

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"Incomprehension" is a fantastic one. I'm getting behind that.


Me too. 'Incomprehension' or maybe 'incomprehensibility'... but 'incomprehension' keeps the tradition of '-ion's, so I concur.

I agree.

Firstly though, i'm kinda out of the loop. when and where did these names get canonized? did any other kanohi get canonized?


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Well, even if these are here to stay I think more discussion is certainly warranted, so here goes:


Vulture: Well I was thinking pretty much like Twilight Jack’s 2nd to last post in your blog entry. “Vulture” is a physical noun, not a verb or something obvious like “speed.” (For the record, I never liked “Mask of Fate” either.) If I described someone as a vulture, I’d be describing them as an opportunistic scavenger, not someone who eats dead things. If you like animal analogies I believe Maggot actually fits better… As far as, how did you put it, being a mind-expander, I don’t know… Just my opinion, but naming something in a not-entirely-obvious fashion is different than having entire elements of a story branch into unexpected plot points. (If that makes any sense.)


Untranslation: So, one DOES have to be in range to scramble a message then? One can’t scramble it and leave it be? The written aspect still seems very limited to me. Now on the spoken aspect, the EU pdf says “targets.” If you can scramble a whole battlefield, then I concede that this mask has its uses. However, the wiki says “target,” singular, and if this can only be done to one target, I retain that it’s pretty much on the side of useless (1-in-a-million) when you consider how you can just use a Mask of Silence on the order-giver or otherwise dispose of him violently. So which is the correct case?


A quick separate note, if these things are here to stay, (siiigh….) at lease give them their own pages on the wiki that include the info from the EU pdf file. The brief descriptions that are currently there do not paint as complete a picture as is needed for these still-not-understood-by-many-people masks.

On the word “Untranslation” itself… How does your argument for the name of the Mask of Vulture, (that it may not be 100% obvious or 100% accurate but expand your mind to it) coincide with the minute language nitpicks against names like Encryption and Scrambling? Just a thought.


Adaptation: Like I said, I actually like this one, although I still personally think it’s a little over-powered. I mean, I if I drop a wearer into the ocean, he gets gills to breathe, right? Who then would willingly choose a Kaukau over this mask, which can do other things besides? Also, how would the Noble work?


Sensory: It’s just a personal taste thing I suppose; I’m not a fan of multi-powered masks, (i.e. Crast.) The Ruru & Akaku cover the vision, the Arthron covers knowing your physical surroundings better than hearing would, and taste and touch would be rarely used. (Yes, that leaves smell.)


Absorption: Forgive me, I was never and will never be a fan of the Piraka so I don’t recall the intricacies of what exactly Vezok could do, and also not a Heroes fan. :P I will say this, if this is going to stay an official mask, we need to nail down the details of all these masks. I move in favor of it being Pouk’s masks simply because it sounds extremely similar. (Even though, to me, it looks just like a Jutlin. Ew.) If it were a different mask with a SLIGHTLY different power, things would just be way too confusing.


Aging: I’m afraid I don’t see how slightly aging a rock would be any better? Or almost any inanimate object, for that matter. If I age a Toa Tool that can survive 10,000 years by 200 years… so what? And I was under the impression very old beings like Helryx were fairly uncommon in the world. So my opinion on this is still 1-in-a-million. I think, though, a lot of questions about this mask could be answered by learning just how much/fast this thing causes aging. (And would the Noble just age things even less?)


Undeath: “I don't see where you get the idea that evil or questionable beings don't have goals, any less than good guys do?” That’s not what I was saying, although I probably didn’t make it clear enough. What I’m saying is, from my view-point, most if not all villains in Bionicle, (those who would wear such a taboo, immoral mask,) have selfish goals that are only of good use when you are alive to see them accomplished. Makuta sought the admiration of the Matoran at one point, how could he enjoy it if dead? Most villains seek to increase their power and rule over a certain population, how can they enjoy their rank and status if dead? I suppose I can see how a villain could hold some deep vendetta against a certain hero who has foiled him and would like to know he’d keep hunting him even after death, but we’re getting into some really far-out uses here. I’d also point out that since bad guys usually succumb to death in the heat of battle, if the bad guy is Kanohi-capable, why not be using a mask suited to combat so that he has a better chance of not dying in the first place? And we don’t have any evidence of Suva being used by anybody besides Toa, do we? So mask switching before death sounds improbable... BASICALLY what I’m saying is, “1-in-a-million.”


Also: How does the mask react when death doesn’t leave a functioning body? How are its deeds executed when a corpse had the lower half of his body melted?


Conjuring: I just keep thinking about this: A Bionicle story is written, this mask is used by a character, and just when all hope seems lost and the team is an inch from death, someone comes up with a perfect power and saves the day. In my personal opinion, that would just seem cheap. (Like the magic freezing zamor used to defeat Kardas the first time.) My other opinion is that I just don’t like the vague nature of it. So, some powers would just be too powerful to copy ever? (Vahi?) What determines that? And these weaknesses, do they have to be weaknesses dealing with the new power itself or can they be unrelated? (I am now super strong, AND allergic to milk.) And how would the Noble function?


Rebounding: I did indeed misunderstand, from the wiki’s description. (It mentions nothing about returning to the person who threw it.) Perhaps 1-in-a-million was too harsh, but still, 1-in-a-thousand? Not many Toa use ammo/projectile on a regular basis. (Wasn’t Vakama berated for using Kanoka as a Toa? Admittedly, mainly by Matau...) Now, if I have a huge Suva, I concede that I’d probably want this in my collection. But unless something’s happened recently I haven’t heard of, (I haven’t been an active watcher of the Bionicle world in a while,) not many Toa at all seem to use Suvas. So the question is who would use this as a primary mask?


I also think it’s a bit unfair to compare the Matatu-Rebounding relation to the Miru-Kadin relation. The Miru and Kadin both allow the user to do something that the other cannot. The Matatu can do everything the Rebounding can do, (even if it needs more concentration,) which is my main problem with it. Also, separate question: what happens if you shoot and miss an opponent in a large flat field with nothing to bounce off of but the ground, does it still return?


Mechanics: The wiki says something about "Computations." I didn't realize we had anything like computers in Bionicle? Other than that, again I don't see who would wear this when given a choice. As s substitute to other masks, maybe. But why bother inventing it (as in us, not the characters) in the first place? Slow down somebody with a Komau, etc.


Fusion: As odd as it sounds, I actually like your “obscure” use best of all. I’m a huge Kaita fan and am sad we haven’t seen any in yearrrs. For the rest, it just again comes down to, who would wear this in favor of something else? It seems very much like a last-ditch sort of mask through and through.

How many surroundings exactly would give your opponent an advantage, but not you? Even in that situation, why not choose a Kakama, Kualsi, Mask of Intangibility to escape and force a pursuit instead? Or a Komau, Matatu to force your enemy from the area altogether?


In General: “Also, you said "super" powers -- they're not supposed to be unusually "super" powers, they're just supposed to be powers” If you are talking about Kanohi in general, I’d have to disagree. Super speed, super strength, levitation, x-ray vision, perfect night-vision, invisibility, telekinesis, mind control, flight, perfect accuracy, telepathy... Pretty much all of the previously known Kanohi fit my description of “super,” although that is just my personal thought.


“And what better powers are those? It's one thing to tear down, it's a whole 'nother to suggest alternatives.” I came up with these in about twenty minutes. 1) Healing, inspired by Iruini’s Rhotuka. 2) Elasticity. I’ve debated with myself if the Mahiki could perform this function but since we’ve never seen it do anything like that I’m leaning towards No. 3) Freezing. We know there are simple freezing Kanoka. 2+2=4. 4) Confusion/Mind Scramble. If you want to sow confusion among a group of attackers, why settle for doing it indirectly when you can do it... well, directly? (I contrast this to the Suletu as I would contrast the Komau and the Mask of Rahi Control. Just as a Komau has a greater range of applications, the Rahi Control allows you to influence more than one individual in a more specific way, just as this mask would.) 5) Precognition. Like the Jedi have. Whereas the Mask of Clairvoyance is uncontrollable and projects far into the future, this mask would always inform of important events (attack, etc.) a split second before they occurred. 6) Limited Area Super Knowledge. (Not the best name for a mask...) Since Toa usually are protectors of a certain Island or region, this mask would aid in having a detailed knowledge of the area. For example, perhaps Toa Naho could have worn and set this mask to monitor Ga-Metru. If an enemy with hostile intent entered Ga-Metru, she’d know. If there was threat of a fire from some lab experiment gone bad, she’d know. OR, if that’s too powerful for use over a whole Metru, we could dial down to some sort of “disturbance in the force”-esque feeling. Maybe level of detail depends on size of area? SO, those are my quick suggestions on what I personally think would have made some better powers. (It’s all for naught but... whatever.)


Another question though: If the whole, grand point of all this is just to expand our knowledge of Kanohi, why weren’t some of these unused shapes used for known-but-unseen masks like the 4 Hagah’s, Tuyet’s, Helryx’s, Nikila’s, etc.? (Example, in my own perfect world I’d like to see the new depiction of the Mask of Fusion be used for the Mask of Possibilities.)


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Thanks for the in-depth post, jimmybob!


My thoughts, in order:


Vulture; Yes, it's a physical noun as opposed to an "abstract noun" (I believe that's the term) or a verb. As explained, overall it seemed to be the clearest, shortest word, plus like I say, it has a poetic aspect to it that most masks lack which IMO is a good thing. And while you -would- probably say that a real-world living being, what actual vultures do is clearly being strengthened off the remains of the dead. And this mask is an energy version of that -- "eating" the dead. That's what is intended.


Untranslation: For spoken, good question about target versus targets. I was thinking primarily of targeting a Toa Team leader who is giving out orders. Can the Rau itself be used on multiple speaking targets?


For written, the text would stay scrambled when the tablet/whatnot is taken out of range. But you must be in range to actually scramble it.


And I don't see how preventing leaders from giving out orders is a rare use. Certainly far less rare than the Rau itself, which is a complaint that has been leveled against the Rau many times (and incidently this mask makes the Rau more useful because the Rau nulls this power). And besides, half of this "rare" logic would seem to forget that a character with this mask would probably focus their tactics on situations where it is useful. If a group of villains wants to stop a message from getting through, send the Incomprehension guy (as it's probably going to be renamed).


Yes, you could do that with a Mask of Silence, but then that could not affect written notes. And if only owned a mask of Incomprehension, that point is moot. :P (As I've had to remind people about many allegedly overlapping powers in official story.)


BS01 pages: That's an issue that's up to the BS01 staff. It was proposed and overturned by them. I've brought up an improved idea; it has not been put to vote yet as far as I know.


I agree the bios on BS01 currently for several of them aren't detailed enough. (Which is leading to complaints about the powers themselves, which is not my fault.) The problem is, of course, that there's not really room for much more on the Kanohi page. This is the main reason I proposed the new idea. We'll see if anything comes of it...


Untranslation: Well, let's keep in mind Incomprehension is probably going to be the new name. My answer to that is, "Vulture" is closer in literal meaning to what its power does than Encryption or Scrambling; it's too easy IMO to misunderstand what those do. Incomprehension, on the other hand, is crystal clear, and both Swert and I like it better than Untranslation.


Adaptation: If you wanted to drown him, you'd logically remove the mask before dropping him in the ocean. :P That aside, this is the whole point of powers -- they give you an advantage of a specific kind you wouldn't otherwise have. You could make the same argument in various ways about all masks ("if I wanted to smash someone with a boulder... oh no! It wouldn't work on that guy with the Pakari! Woe is us!" :P). And note you were arguing against rare or too-weak uses with some of the other masks. :P


To your Kaukau point, what do you say about Miru versus Kadin? Or Weight (Kanoka power; could be a mask) versus Gravity? I don't see how that logic amounts to a good argument against the power existing in the wide varied world of Bionicle.


But my answer to the Kadin/Miru thing is, the Miru would take less concentration. For a character like Lewa who can handle the flight part via his elemental power, Miru would probably be easier to use. I'd apply the same thinking to a Kaukau. Kaukau works right away; this mask takes the time to transform you, and it has other side effects like if you lose the mask while in that form you're stuck with Barraki Syndrome. :P (Stuck breathing water. :P)


And again, what if all you have access to is a Kaukau? You'd go with it.


Noble would just be a slower version of it.



Sensory Aptitude isn't multi-powered; its power merely applies to senses across the board. If you had no senses other than vision, it would arguably have only one "power" by your definition. It simply improves the area of the brain that deals with sensory processing, overall. The Akaku does not cover the vision -- the Akaku is a mask that is simply more limited in one way but less limited in another. More limited than SA in that it applies only to vision, but less limited in that it improves vision much more than SA.


So the point of the Sensory Aptitude mask is to make yourself more aware, overall. If you don't know what to "look" (or listen) for, this mask is the one for you. Example, it's a great mask for avoiding ambush, because whatever noise, glimpse, smell, footprint, etc. is left by ambushers, it's all possibly better sensed with this mask. But if you had Akaku, and they were hiding with a sniper out of visual range, but making tiny noises, you would have been better off with the SA.


Also, I don't think Arthron improves hearing; it is Sonar. Giving you a sense of the shape of your surroundings, through water or fog or the like. I could be wrong about that, though. It wouldn't help you hear someone who's trying to hide or is behind a wall, etc.


Absorption: For now it's basically, you temporarily get the power of another being, as long as they're in range. And probably it is a very limited range. The details aren't quite established yet. But that's how Vezok's power works, basically.


It looks like it can't be Pouks's mask, because a poll is already being run in the BS01 forum to name that mask. Personally I -think- I'd rather the two be different powers. Anyways.


I suppose it is similar to a Jutlin. I actually thought it looked more like a Hau. To me, "Jutlin" requires the "spike" things to "jut" far out, and that doesn't fit this mask. The positioning is similar though, yeah. Sort of a fusion of Hau and Jutlin.


Aging: When they say "slightly" on BS01, they mean compared to Voporak who had an extremely powerful version of it. His power was kinda godmod. All I meant in the guide was that it's not as powerful as him; more on a normal level.


As far as uses, aging a rock, a structure, etc. would weaken it. Aging a plant could make it shrivel up, or possibly even grow to fullsize faster. If you're smart about it, obviously you wouldn't go around randomly aging rocks for fun, :P you would target rocks under structures that are already very old, etc.


Also, who says Toa Tools last that long without maintenance? But I agree a Toa tool would not make a good target in most cases.


The main idea is it would be used against beings -- enemies. Rapidly aging a being might not kill it -- even Voporak's power did not kill TSO -- but it would severaly weaken them for a while, until they could rebuild themselves. On Agori/Glatorian it would probably be most effective. Also, as you say, some beings are already very old, so against them it could be especially effective. Rarely, it could even kill them if they're old enough.


As far as how many beings are in that age range, I'm not sure we can determine that. Bionicle beings live to be VERY old.


Yeah, the Noble version would be pretty useless against living beings. It would still come in very handy in situations where aging of weak points in structures could topple the structure, though, and possibly also still speed the growth of plants.


I would argue that this mask is perhaps more versatile than many other official masks including many of the others on this list (and Kanoka powers too). Rau, Kaukau, Regeneration, Elda etc. are pretty specifically focused, but Aging has a wide variety of uses across both inanimate and living categories. It really depends on your imagination IMO.


Undeath: Well, that's a good point that selfish beings would -- you would think -- not care about their goals beyond death. But real life apparently demonstrates that not to necessarily be the case, with suicide bombers, gunmen who kill themselves, etc. Besides, plain and simple revenge on the good guy who killed him is a goal I can see tons of bad guys wanting. As long as you time it well enough to avoid it actually leading to your death, if you're evil, you're probably thinking, "why not?"


Also, again, that mask isn't necessarily evil, but taboo. There's a subtle difference. A good guy who cared enough about their cause to want to fight for it even after death would most likely get past their queasiness about it and use this mask.


Also, a good guy might hesitate to kill a bad guy even more than normal if they know they have this mask. After all, the mask is pretty much useless while the bad guy is alive. So in that sense it could even be seen as insurance (again, as long as the user times when they wear it properly).


And again we come back to this "rare = shouldn't exist" argument. I still don't see why we should say that. Lots of powers in Bionicle exist for rare situations. Let's just pretend that this mask has very little use, for the sake of discussion.


It's still a unique power, more imagination poured into the world of Bionicle. I would say this (and have, many times) for official powers too (like Rau). So what if a power is rarely usable? That still makes for interesting story possibilities in those instances. Maybe a fan wants to tell a story about the rare situation?


Also, "rare usage" does not equal "low value", keep in mind.


The Rau might not be called for in as many situations as the Huna, but what do you say when you come to the one situation where you NEED to translate something? Such as the example in LoMN. The Huna wouldn't really have done any good against those Kikanalo; if not for the Rau, the Toa Metru would be dead, and Makuta would have had no serious opposition. The Toa Nuva might never have been summoned from their malfunctioning canisters. Etc.


To your Suva point, mask switching need not only be done by Suva, lol. Evil beings could easily just carry the Mask of Undeath in a pack and put it on physically. And if they wanted, there's nothing stopping them from creating a Suva themselves. A Makuta could even shapeshift to store the mask inside their armor. Any number of ways to do it.


The mask would make do with what is there. And if want rarity logic, that sort of death is rare in Bionicle. :P But in that example, the mask would animate the arms.


Conjuring: Well, that's if you like writing with Deus ex Machina. :P I don't, personally. Frankly, is that even realistic? What kind of situation are we talking about? Is there an enemy involved? If so, might not they take advantage of the weakness you just spoke aloud in their hearing?


It's HIGHLY unlikely this mask could do last minute saves, as the severe backlash means it's not the sort of power you should use on a whim. If you make the slightest mistake, you just fry your brain and probably get your team in even more trouble than it was in. This the kind of power you have to calmly, rationally plan before even trying to use it, and speak slowly and carefully. That doesn't seem suited to "last minute" scenarios to me.


Any power could fit in your DeM scenario, really -- A Bionicle story is written, the Akaku is used by a character, and just when all hope seems lost and the team is an inch from death, he happens to spot something tiny or far off that helps them and he saves the day. That's a plot device that is chosen by the writer, regardless of what the power is. It's up to the writer. I personally would argue against doing that.


And remember I had said the mask is better used programming the power before entering many situations when you're out of earshot of enemies so they can't hear the weakness part of the instructions.


So no, I can't agree with that.


You're free to not like the vague nature of it. Although you could argue it's a very exacting mask, since it requires such caution and precision in programming. I personally like to a variety of masks -- ones that are more specific powers with somewhat rarer but efficient uses, a few with very rare uses, some that have a Peter Petrelli/Vezok generalized use but lack specificity, some that are more in between, etc. And that's the tradition Bionicle has established. Keetongu, Pouks, etc.


Your milk allergy example is the sort of thing that would fry your brain. :P


If you just said "I am now super strong," the mask would just ignore you, as you failed to finish the programming. But if you made a weakness that isn't related to the other part of the programming, it would be equivalent to dividing by zero in a computer program. You put -something- in the slot for weakness, but it makes no logical sense given the strength, so it doesn't match. Skiboosh.


A better example would be, "I am now super strong, but I have less precise control over my muscles", so you'd do The Thing thing, where you accidently crush things, etc. An enemy could use martial arts tactics against you more easily (using your strength against you). Etc. That is a weakness that is logically connected to the power.


For Noble the amount of time the power sticks around is shortened. For Great I said it was about fifteen minutes. For Noble, it's more like five. At least, that's what I think it was; it's in the EM Guide.


No, it couldn't do Legendary powers. It's only a Great mask, and those powers can ONLY exist as Legendary level. If Legendary powers did exist that were just more powerful versions of Great powers, then it would only be capable of the Great version.


Rebounding: Lol. I've wondered why in the heck people keep confusing this one. It seems really simple to me. I don't recall how it's worded there, but that would explain the confusion... Again, most of the BS01 definitions are far too vague right now, yeah. Hopefully that will be improved soon.


And here comes the rare usage logic again, sigh. :P


As I pointed out somewhere, if this was your power, surely you would be smart enough to use ammo that qualified for the power? That rare use logic only works if you assume the user isn't selective about their tactics. But we're talking about intelligent beings here, so that is an unreasonable assumption.


Once the mask weilder has such an object handy, the mask becomes more like one in three useful. Its usefulness would simply be limited to battle or other situations in which projectiles are useful, obviously, which are quite common for Toa and bad guys alike.


Er, I dunno where you get the idea among today's Bionicle that Toa don't use projectiles. :P And even that Matau thing is obviously illogical -- Matau didn't literally mean that he'd rather die than be seen near a Kanoka-weilding Toa, if the Kanoka would save his life. :P He just was displaying a character flaw there; he wasn't thinking of a situation where it would happen. And later, it did.


And again, that's the sort of rare usage illogic that isn't considering intelligence. Let's say you go up to a Toa who wears this mask. Are you going to tell him, "Statistics say Toa rarely fire projectiles, therefore you are unlikely to have any use for this mask"?


Come on. That would be ludicrous. He'd just grab his handy, non-shattering, non-explosive projectile and say "Statistic this!" [/Worf] XD


Anyways. The power is inspired by the skill used by the 2001 Matoran in MNOG and such. Dunno if they could actually officially do that, but it's an ability I always thought was neat.


Besides, the ability already exists in a Kanoka flight power, but this one improves that by having it work even if the projectile stays on course, so frankly all of this rare usage stuff is irrelevant. This power is more useful than a version of it that already exists in Bionicle!


At this point I'd like to challenge you to apply this thinking to other official masks. None of this logic would leave all other official masks unscathed, in fact it would condemn the vast majority of them. You've argued against rare usage, you've complained that power isn't rare usage, you've complained because a power is limited, you've complained because a power is versatile, or at least perceiving them that way. Yet official examples of all of that exist. You have to factor what is already established as fair game in Bionicle.


Admittedly, some of it you just didn't know -- I'm happy to clarify. But frankly some of it -- notwithstanding my gratitude for going to the trouble of being in-depth; you've pointed out some very good things that needed clarifying, so I'm not saying you shouldn't have said what you've said -- is a lack of an open mind to the power, or seems to be to me.


I'd just encourage you to try to answer these sorts of questions for yourself. Be the "Devil's Advocate" -- you think Rebounding might be rarely useful? Think it over from the opposite perspective -- in what ways could it BE useful, not be NOT useful? You clearly weren't thinking this way with this power at least, or you would have realized a Toa with this mask isn't going to care about what "most Toa tend to do" who don't have this mask -- he's going to do what makes the most sense FOR HIS SITUATION.


Think about it, McFriendly. :P


Mechanics: I don't know what they meant by it, but we have clockwork robotic brains in Bionicle. Vahki, best example. Also some other examples like fire drones. I suppose "computation" might be the most concise word for what they do. Yeah, that word fits. The brains compute. Sure. They do mimic intelligent brains even better than real-world computers, after all. :lol:


Again, you're not approaching it from the right mindset. When you see a power, the right response is not to think of how many ways it isn't needed because with an elaborate set of other powers etc. etc. you could get something similar -- it's to think of all the ways in which it IS useful. Think like a Toa.


(Or a bad guy mask weilder, whatever. :P)


One great benefit of this mask is you could "telepathically' give out orders to clockwork-brain robots like Vahki, Nektann, etc. If you manufacture an army of robots without clockwork brains, you could control them directly. A disposable army (because they're not alive) under your instant command.


Think of it, my Frend. :P


(In the EM, our main character Kyn has an army of hovering spacecapable robots that help him with his demolitions business, and he uses a Kanoka-material device of this power in his communications device to "telepathically" give orders to them.)


And all of that "some other power can do something similar" thing is not an accurate, clear way of thinking. In tactics and strategy, you need to be perfectly accurate and clear.


One of the main things you must consider is that everything -- and every power -- has pros and cons. Could you do all these things with other powers? Well, dunno about robot telepathy, but maybe with the right tech, sure. It would expensive, inconvenient, possible life-threatening if it proves too hard to manage in a tight situation. But you could do it.


But why bother, when you could instead just pick a power more suited to what you want to do -- Biomechanics?


Besides, think of it! Objecting to the very power that encapsulates the very theme of Bionicle better than any mask power before! my garsh! XD



Fusion: Well, see, that's a big part of idea of Biomechanics and several of the other powers you objected to, like Rebound, Conjuring, Aging, Absorption, Sensory Aptitude, Adaptation -- to be extremely "Bionicle." Fusion and Biomechanics do that in a more general way than the others.


Again we come back to the "who would wear it" illogic. Again, that's not realistic. It doesn't make sense for no beings to exist with powers specialized to deal with situations that other powers would not handle. It makes more sense to have a wide variety of powers.


Heck, by that logic, we might as just give everybody Pakari and forget it. :P


Some characters might prefer this particular strategy. They might have it as one power among a team with a wide range of powers -- especially this one as it can strengthen Fusions which Teams work great for. They see it as their Strategy -- often in battle it's best not to have the most generic Strategy, but the one that is most unique, and thus less likely to be effectively countered by enemies.


As to how many surroundings would give you an advantage, that's a totally subjective question. It depends on the enemy, the location, etc. There would be some enemies that strategy would less effective against, in some locations, yes.


Kakama, Kualsi, Intangibility -- these things might give you an escape, but they wouldn't give you the advantage of actually defeating the enemy. In situations where a bad guy is attacking innocents, for example, are those innocents going to be impressed that the Mighty Toa Hero escaped the danger? XD No, they want you to deal with the enemy.


And again, this mask choice question, it often does not work that way. If you have the Mask of Fusion, and no other masks, you don't have the choice to think like this.


You must think like a Toa -- how can I best use what resources I have to deal with this situation, using my imagination, my brains?


Super-powers -- well, whatever. I was just nitpicking. As I myself have cautioned people before, do not argue about words. :P It was just, the person who said that was implying that the powers were supposed to be godmod, and I was trying to say, no, they aren't intended that way. That's all. These are just Great Masks, no more or less powerful on average than other Great Masks. :)


Yes, obviously the powers are super compared to nothing. :P I just meant compared to other Great Masks.


1) Healing, as I said to someone else, was already a power I had submitted to the EM from my Paracosmos list of masks, so it didn't occur to me, naturally, to invent it again. Thus didn't occur to me to ask Greg to officialize it. I agree it's a good choice, and maybe if we go with (and if Greg approves) that Mask contest idea I had, there will be an opportunity to officialize it. :)


2) Elasticity -- also a Paracosmos mask. Same reason as #1 it wasn't invented for this group. Also agree would make a nice power.


3) Freezing -- yet another Paracosmos mask, same reason. Agree.


4) Confusion -- that's a power I've seen before, it's a good suggestion. I agree, this too would make a good official power.


5) Precognition -- For some reason I thought this was already a mask power, but I must have been thinking of Clairvoyance. It's a power somebody has, right? Anyways, like.


6) Limited Area Super Knowledge. Oy? Half the arguments you used against the new powers could be applied to this. :P I wouldn't mind it in a fanfic. Dunno if it really works for official... How limited you talking? Name idea: Use a version of Omniscience, with some prefix meaning local which is slipping my mind at the moment.


@Why not assign known powers to known shapes -- because the other half of the point was to make a list of new powers for the Multiverse. That's a Straw Man to say the BS01 thing was the whole point. I've been crystal clear from the start that these are among the 30 EM new powers. The PM to Greg clearly explained this (as well as the part about BS01).


And if we do that Masks contest thing, perhaps that would be contained in what the mask could be about. I've invented a shape for Helryx's for example that I sure wouldn't mind having an opportunity to become official, heh.


Well, again, thanks for the in-depth thoughts. Among all the various questions you definately brought out a few things I hadn't thought to clarify, so this has been productive. ^_^

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EDIT: oh snap, Bones posted while I was posting! XD


You pretty much cleared it all up for me. But, I have a couple of things.


-Does the Mask of Incomprehension affect the message, or the recipient of the message?

-Couldn't the Mask of Undeath just use the stored energy to keep you alive/rebuild your destroyed body? You couldn't store more energy once you were undead, but it'd keep you alive for a while so you could bask in your glory or whatever. Kill your enemies.

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