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Does Greg Lie?


bonesiii

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takua_is.png


Every once in a while someone accusing Greg of lying. People wanna know what's gonna happen ahead of time, and sometimes there are Big Theory Debates that get everybody madly curious. What's a poor author to say when someone asks point-blank, is it true?

Recently, a member whose name won't be mentioned here said this:

Things Greg had denied time and time again were true


So Greg lied? When people PMed him asking "Is Takua Takanuva?" or the like, did he just say "no", knowing full well that he'd be caught in the lie eventually? Why would he do that?

No.

Greg has NEVER denied anything unless it actually isn't true.

What happens is, we read way too much into some of his answers. Then we spread the false rumor that he denied something. Then, when it's revealed, all those misinformed people conclude, "Greg lied! :o"

That is OUR fault. Not his.

As I put it in response to that member after PMing to ask for more detail:

-------------------------

Got your PM -- apparently you are talking about the 2006 Makuta return and the Takua becoming Takanuva false rumors. I closely followed both of those -- Greg NEVER denied those.

What he DID is ask rhetorical questions in reply -- like "Does it really make sense?" He's clever, of course -- he doesn't want to spoil the fun. ;) But people read way too much into what he says, and read answers like that as "no" when he never said that. Then we spread false rumors that he denied something -- what is he supposed to do?

If he points out that he didn't actually deny it (if he even knows we've spread the false rumor), that's basically the same as confirming it. Which would defeat the point. So he has to just be silent on it.

I myself have been guilty of this -- during the whole "Dume is Makuta" theory thing, I saw a quote where Greg pointed out a reason to think Dume couldn't be Makuta -- something to do with the Metru Rahkshi having come in from elsewhere instead of Metru Nui. Clever of him -- he planted the idea that Dume very well might not be Makuta -- but he did NOT deny it. After all, what if Makuta just ordered those Rahkshi to come in so he wouldn't have to worry about making more on location? Seems obvious in hindsight, but just about everybody assumed it amounted to a denial.

I even closed theories that said otherwise based on this. >_< But lo and behold, we were wrong -- Dume WAS Makuta, and Greg DIDN'T deny it.

-----------------------

In other words, what Greg sometimes does is answer as if he DIDN'T know either way, but is just commenting on it from the perspective of theories. When he does this, he never clearly confirms or denies -- he merely comments on how much a possibility might make sense, or not make sense, and why.


Now, it IS possible that he would deny something because at the time it wasn't planned, but later change his mind. I have seen this happen once, and he was crystal clear about it. Certainly we can't fault him for that either -- he's not a prophet. :P In fact, that very question might have been what got him thinking maybe it would be best that way. He's human.


If anyone doesn't believe me, I challenge you to prove it. Show me the quote where Greg "denied" something that was actually true (and known by Greg to be true at the time). Or if you don't have proof, tell me about what you think he lied -- chances are the real scoop was in plain sight in the theories forum. ;)



If Greg ever did lie, we would be able to show the proof, and his credibility would go down to zero. Greg knows the value of his answers being trustworthy -- he has always said that the very reason he came to BZP was to correct misinformation. Tell me, what would be the point of lying?



Should he use clever "weasel" answers? Well, maybe that's debatable, but as an aspiring author myself, I can put myself in his shoes and answer personally with a resounding yes! His job is NOT to give things away. His job is to write the story and help us enjoy it.

So as long as he is telling the truth, he's both preserving the surprise AND challenging you guys to use better thinking skills.

If Greg gives such an answer in the future, why not think more carefully about it? If you catch it, you just might be able to use it in your theory as a "he didn't deny it" piece of evidence (as long as you have other evidence that says it might be true, so it's not speculation). You could have the best theory on the issue in S&T. ;)



So let's be careful about what we claim Greg denied, and stop spreading false rumors. :)

------------------This message sponsored by:---------------------

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Very wise words!

 

I personally have NEVER seen a quote where Greg did not tell the truth, and I have read the Official Greg Discussion,(or should I say "Dialogue") topic since 2004. I missed the whole Takua is not Takanuva thing, but I was there for the Dume/Makuta thing.

 

I also write, and I have had one of my brothers and my father read my book(s). I typically answer by saying "can't say" to everything, since the minute I say "no" to something, anytime I say "can't say" it gets taken as yes. I've seen this a gazillion times in the OGD. Greg says "no" to obvious things, like, is Matoro the new character in 2009? Highly unlikely, as he's dead.

 

Yet, because of that, whenever Greg answers "Can't answer it" to something less obvious than 2009 info, a lot of times there's a whole host of ,"Ooh, interesting." and "I think I"m onto something," etc. And a lot of times, the most obvious response when Greg tried to hint you off of something and it turned out to be true is, "Oh, he lied." When in reality, he didn't. It's the easiest response; many times, our subconscious "assumes" (we all know the assume saying), that since Greg persuaded us it was not so, and since it turned out to be true, then Greg lied. You don't immediately think, "Oh, yeah, Greg "hinted" against this, but he never actually said no." Minds just don't work that way.

 

So, I have yet to see a blatant lie, and I don't think we'll be seeing one in the near future.

 

VK

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I LOLED at your picture at the end :P

 

Back on topic, I agree pretty much with everything you said. Greg is very clever with his answers, which sometimes makes people think like he has denied something, which he hasn't.

 

Although on one occasion, Lessovik I believe, he said Nikila was the leader of Lessovik's team. Greg later changed his mind and said Lessovik was the leader. That's something minor though..

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I'm actually glad you posted something like this. I once also tried to accuse him of this crime (way before I was with BS01, back in late 03 I think). Pretty much couldn't prove it. So I moved on and accepted he told the truth.

 

Anyway, I'm just really glad someone spoke up in defense of Greg. He doesn't really get much of that these days.

 

Maybe now people will stop asking about it. -Swert

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Yes, Greg lies. I shall blatantly and ignorantly hold on to that opinion no matter what! :o

 

Furthermore, mumu closes topics for the sake of doing it! :o (You gotta remember that accusation, bones =P )

 

~EW~

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I swear that Greg blatantly said, "No" when asked if Takua is Takanuva. I'm sticking to that.

 

Could it be because at the time, Takua was not Takanuva yet?

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Great entry as usual, bones. I really get tired of people accusing Greg of being a big fat liar on this and other sites. Some members don't seem to realize that ol' Gregs is very sneaky when he does his Q and A - often, he doesn't give direct answers, or he uses technicalities when revealing info. An example of something like this (not real) would be the following:

 

Dear Greg:

 

1. Did the Order of Mata Nui kill off (random being)?

2. Did the Dark Hunters kill him off?

 

1. No.

2. Yes.

 

Greg.

 

Now, imagine if in a story serial it is revealed that the Order of Mata Nui hired the Dark Hunters to kill off the being. A suspicious member would quickly call greg's bluff - but in reality Greg did not actually lie. He said that the Dark Hunters killed off the being, and that was true - as they did the killing. The Order of Mata Nui only ordered them to - they did not actually engage in combat or assasination. :P

 

It's times like this where I admire Greg's ability to reveal as little information as possible when doing his Q and A - it really keeps us guessing. :)

 

~~END~~

 

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I agree with Aravagantos on this one with the "Is Takua Takanuva?" thing. I think Greg was smart and said 'no' because Takua was indeed never Takanuva. Takua was always Takua, then the being Takanuva came into existence when Takua put pn the Mask of Light. See, the question "Is Takua Takanuva?" implies that Takua was Takanuva and himself at the same time, like he was leading a double-life.

That's my take on it, anyway. ^_^

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Even if Greg were the most blatant liar you'd ever met, you'd have to realize that you'd be whining over a somewhat predictable storyline created for a toy franchise. It's laughable.

 

The whole thing is so incredibly simple, basic -- I'm amazed someone would need a whole blog entry to be snapped out of it!

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Just feel like adding something to this:

 

Remember when Greg said Krakua wasn't an Order of Mata Nui member? He had said that shortly before he was revealed to become one. Greg explained that he sometimes has so many different idea going through his mind that he sometimes forgets whoch one was canon.

 

At least that's what I remember. He said it way back in 2007, so I may have some things wrong.

 

drcsiggy.png

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I swear that Greg blatantly said, "No" when asked if Takua is Takanuva. I'm sticking to that.

 

Well, he may have meant "no, Takua is not Takanuva at this exact moment, the exact time at which you are asking the question, because the transformation hasn't happened yet".

 

Evasive semantics, Snoopy. Evasive semantics.

 

And Cholie, technically Krakua is a servant, not a member. Which means Greg didn't lie.

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While he may not have actually lied, at least 20 people must have theorized Mata Nui was the island, he must have said no at least once. It's nothing against him--he just has to lie. So, in dire circumstances, he has lied.

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I swear that Greg blatantly said, "No" when asked if Takua is Takanuva. I'm sticking to that.

So where is the proof? I was here at the time, and as soon as someone alleged that, way back in 2003, I challenged them to provide the quote. They could not. Nobody had ever actually seen this supposed quote -- it was a false rumor.

 

Unless you can show otherwise. :) The old OGDT still exists, yanno.

 

Now, he DID say that Takua wasn't the Toa of Light at the time, yes. Which was 100% true. Remember, at the time, we didn't even know that Matoran became Toa, or how it worked if so. One person DID ask the question, if memory serves, if Takanuva had existed in the past as a Toa, then turned into a Matoran named Takua, and the MOL would simply restore him to his previous form. Greg denied that -- because it isn't the case. :)

 

But, to the question, "Does Takua become the Toa of Light," Greg never denied it. People just interpreted one answer as a totally different one, and the rumor mutated from there.

 

Again, this might be a "weasel answer", but it is not a lie, and put yourself into the author's shoes -- what else can you do when someone asks a question that comes close to the truth but misses it? Lying would serve no purpose, because the quote would exist and you could be pinned down on it later, which would defeat the point.

 

 

Yes, Greg lies. I shall blatantly and ignorantly hold on to that opinion no matter what! :o

 

Furthermore, mumu closes topics for the sake of doing it! :o (You gotta remember that accusation, bones =P )

 

~EW~

Heh. And we all do, maaan! It's so fun! :o

 

Spoilers:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

While he may not have actually lied, at least 20 people must have theorized Mata Nui was the island, he must have said no at least once. It's nothing against him--he just has to lie. So, in dire circumstances, he has lied.

He isn't the island. How would that be a lie? I followed that one closely too -- about the only thing Greg never gave us a yes or no answer on for that one was "is he the Matoran Universe?" -- which he is. :)

 

Far as I know, nobody ever even asked if his face was just beneath the island, as the online movie showed. People came soooo close, even asking if the island was his face -- but it ISN'T his face. The island was sort of like a mask over his face (ironically, since that's where we first learned of masks! ^_^).

 

No, he has NOT lied. Again, doing so just once would defeat the purpose, so how would it help in "dire circumstances"? We would have to stop placing any value on Greg's confirmation or denial entirely. Greg knows full well that would be foolish. He wasn't born yesterday.

 

I appreciate it being brought up, though.

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I've never payed close enough attention to know if he's lied or not. But I know he's probably misguided us many times... the Takua / Takanuva thing, the "Makuta isn't in the 04 storyline" deal, probably some more that I can't think of...

 

And aren't there a few times when he messed up something. Like, in Bionicle Legends 1, he wrote Avak saying he was given his powers from the BoM, but if you look at BS01, they say he was lying. LYING!

 

I have no idea where I was going there.

 

Anyway, interesting entry, as always, Bonesiii.

 

:music:

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I swear that Greg blatantly said, "No" when asked if Takua is Takanuva. I'm sticking to that.

So where is the proof? I was here at the time, and as soon as someone alleged that, way back in 2003, I challenged them to provide the quote. They could not. Nobody had ever actually seen this supposed quote -- it was a false rumor.

 

Unless you can show otherwise. :) The old OGDT still exists, yanno.

 

Now, he DID say that Takua wasn't the Toa of Light at the time, yes. Which was 100% true. Remember, at the time, we didn't even know that Matoran became Toa, or how it worked if so. One person DID ask the question, if memory serves, if Takanuva had existed in the past as a Toa, then turned into a Matoran named Takua, and the MOL would simply restore him to his previous form. Greg denied that -- because it isn't the case. :)

 

But, to the question, "Does Takua become the Toa of Light," Greg never denied it. People just interpreted one answer as a totally different one, and the rumor mutated from there.

 

Again, this might be a "weasel answer", but it is not a lie, and put yourself into the author's shoes -- what else can you do when someone asks a question that comes close to the truth but misses it? Lying would serve no purpose, because the quote would exist and you could be pinned down on it later, which would defeat the point.

 

 

Yes, Greg lies. I shall blatantly and ignorantly hold on to that opinion no matter what! :o

 

Furthermore, mumu closes topics for the sake of doing it! :o (You gotta remember that accusation, bones =P )

 

~EW~

Heh. And we all do, maaan! It's so fun! :o

 

Spoilers:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

While he may not have actually lied, at least 20 people must have theorized Mata Nui was the island, he must have said no at least once. It's nothing against him--he just has to lie. So, in dire circumstances, he has lied.

He isn't the island. How would that be a lie? I followed that one closely too -- about the only thing Greg never gave us a yes or no answer on for that one was "is he the Matoran Universe?" -- which he is. :)

 

Far as I know, nobody ever even asked if his face was just beneath the island, as the online movie showed. People came soooo close, even asking if the island was his face -- but it ISN'T his face. The island was sort of like a mask over his face (ironically, since that's where we first learned of masks! ^_^).

 

No, he has NOT lied. Again, doing so just once would defeat the purpose, so how would it help in "dire circumstances"? We would have to stop placing any value on Greg's confirmation or denial entirely. Greg knows full well that would be foolish. He wasn't born yesterday.

 

I appreciate it being brought up, though.

I also remember him skillfully avoiding the question a few times. Someone would ask, "Is Mata Nui any of these: Metru Nui, Voya Nui, Mata Nui, etc." and he'd respond with a "Not any one of those."

 

And I followed the Takanuva theories quite closely back in the day, and he never straightforwardly denied it. All I remember him specifically debunking was the theory that Gali was Takanuva.

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I remember quite a long time ago, a senior staffer here telling me in an IM that Greg flat-out lied about something.

But dang if I can remember the specifics of it NOW.

 

[bonesiii: Edited. Let's keep this appropriate (and on-topic), okay?]

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And aren't there a few times when he messed up something. Like, in Bionicle Legends 1, he wrote Avak saying he was given his powers from the BoM, but if you look at BS01, they say he was lying. LYING!

 

I have no idea where I was going there.

Yeah, I heard about that mistake. Sure, he makes mistakes -- everybody does. Sometimes he forgets what he said before, too. And don't we all. But there too, that's not a lie, just an error.

 

Also, not sure about the details of that Avak thing, but for some reason I thought Avak had lied somehow related to that in the story... Don't quote me on that one though. *tries to remember* Anybody know?

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And aren't there a few times when he messed up something. Like, in Bionicle Legends 1, he wrote Avak saying he was given his powers from the BoM, but if you look at BS01, they say he was lying. LYING!

 

I have no idea where I was going there.

Yeah, I heard about that mistake. Sure, he makes mistakes -- everybody does. Sometimes he forgets what he said before, too. And don't we all. But there too, that's not a lie, just an error.

 

Also, not sure about the details of that Avak thing, but for some reason I thought Avak had lied somehow related to that in the story... Don't quote me on that one though. *tries to remember* Anybody know?

 

Yeah, Avak was trying to imply he knew stuff about the BoM, in case the Inika captured him.

 

Also, no one asked Greg if Avak was telling the truth.

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Didn't he somehow lie about how Lesovikk's team had died? His team died because of Zyglak, but in that Olisi vision his team actually was attacked by an acid cloud. Many people thought that this might be a wrong fact in this vision that might help Lesovikk to get out of the vision by realizing his team was killed by Zyglak, not by that acid cloud; however, their theory was crushed by Greg editing the BS01 Lesovikk article to saying it really was an acid cloud. Later we found out that those people's theory was right, after all...

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Whaaat? Of course Greg lies! Isn't his purpose to deliberately mislead us and keep us from ever knowing the true story?? :huh:

 

For anyone who's interested, the original OGDT started in March 2003, which is the perfect sort of time to start looking for answers regarding Takua/Takanuva, yes? I had a look through (only got to mid-august as I needed sleep), and not once did Greg ever say that Takua was or was not Takanuva. In fact there were shockingly few questions asking that. I think I spotted two.

 

Oh, there's also some VERY interesting things lurking around back there. It's amazing how much has changed and how many things have been re-envisioned or scrapped without us being any the wiser. :)

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