A Golden-Red Horizon

HEY GUYS CHECK OUT MY FRANKENSTEIN HELMET GUYS

Calling it nonsense is a bit strong. In our world, we think of masks as something that you strap onto the face (generally), whereas a helmet is something that rests on top of the head. (There are, of course, things that blur the line and can go either way, like the aforediscussed Frankenstein mask, and for these things we rely on whatever is most common.)

 

The Garai is one of those things that blurs the line. It is a mask in the story, no question about that, but you could perfectly reasonably call the piece a helmet, since it's the only Kanohi so far that attaches to the top of the head and leaves the bottom half of the face exposed.

 

The same goes for the UD helmet/mask. It's a Kanohi, yes, but it attaches just like a helmet, hence the common term of "UD helmet". And same with the Makuta Mistika's masksheadshelmetsthings. Hence, some people refer to them as helmets (which the pieces basically are), some as masks (what they are in the story), and some just as heads (which is what I do).

 

And the Glatoriana and company have the same thing; all of their facethings attach to the tops of their heads, and many only cover the eyes and the top of the head, which fits the definition of either a mask or a helmet...

I think he's just annoyed at people saying that they're not masks, not annoyed at people saying they're helmets.

Calling it nonsense is a bit strong. In our world, we think of masks as something that you strap onto the face (generally), whereas a helmet is something that rests on top of the head. (There are, of course, things that blur the line and can go either way, like the aforediscussed Frankenstein mask, and for these things we rely on whatever is most common.)

 

The Garai is one of those things that blurs the line. It is a mask in the story, no question about that, but you could perfectly reasonably call the piece a helmet, since it's the only Kanohi so far that attaches to the top of the head and leaves the bottom half of the face exposed.

 

The same goes for the UD helmet/mask. It's a Kanohi, yes, but it attaches just like a helmet, hence the common term of "UD helmet". And same with the Makuta Mistika's masksheadshelmetsthings. Hence, some people refer to them as helmets (which the pieces basically are), some as masks (what they are in the story), and some just as heads (which is what I do).

 

And the Glatoriana and company have the same thing; all of their facethings attach to the tops of their heads, and many only cover the eyes and the top of the head, which fits the definition of either a mask or a helmet...

You seem to miss part of the point. A helmet's purpose is to protect the head. A mask's purpose is to cover the face. This is perfectly evident in all but one mask, that of the Agori Berix.

 

Moreover, a mask can go over the top of the head and leave the bottom half of the face exposed. These, for instance. The Garai covers a similar amount of the face. Also, since many helmets cover the lower half of the face, one wonders how "helmet" becomes a better term than "mask." And of course, one wonders how it matters what way the mask "attaches", since normally masks don't "attach" to your face except by a strap which-- guess what!-- goes over your head.

 

The Mistika Makuta masks are way more like masks than helmets in terms of the actual pieces. They cover exactly the same parts of the face as a normal Kanohi mask. TtW almost gets my point: I do get mad at masks being called helmets. I do not mind them being called helmet-like if they resemble a helmet in shape. Saying they attach like helmets makes little to no sense. Many a mask can be called helmet-like. But it's the people who say a mask "attaches like a helmet" on the BS01 Wiki or explicitly call the Glatorian masks helmets as if there was no better term in set reviews who are simply propagating nonsense, as I purported.

since normally masks don't "attach" to your face except by a strap which-- guess what!-- goes over your head.

Human helmets, maybe.

I'm pretty sure the Glatorian/Agori helmets are helmets in story too.

BtB

since normally masks don't "attach" to your face except by a strap which-- guess what!-- goes over your head.

Human helmets, maybe.

If you're going to treat the BIONICLE definition and the real-world definition of mask as separate things, there is even less reason to call any BIONICLE mask a helmet-- to do so would be to claim that you decide what the BIONICLE definition is. As it is I see little difference in the definition besides traits BIONICLE masks and real-world masks seem to have. If you want to go further, consider that one of the chief purposes of a helmet in real life is to protect the back of the head. Besides the Inika masks and every mask worn by a Toa in MoL, none of the alleged "helmets" qualify.

 

I'm pretty sure the Glatorian/Agori helmets are helmets in story too.

 

BtB

Since Greg has stated that the concept of masks will remain a critical aspect of 2009 story, and since Dwellers in Darkness has explicitly shown us biomechanical beings with masks who come from outside the Matoran Universe, I see no reason to doubt that these will be masks.

Since Greg has stated that the concept of masks will remain a critical aspect of 2009 story, and since Dwellers in Darkness has explicitly shown us biomechanical beings with masks who come from outside the Matoran Universe, I see no reason to doubt that these will be masks.

Mask of Life is what he was referencing, I think. Why would a powerless mask/helmet be important?

 

Dunno about that.

 

I'm still almost positive I saw Greg call them helmets somewhere...

 

BtB

Since Greg has stated that the concept of masks will remain a critical aspect of 2009 story, and since Dwellers in Darkness has explicitly shown us biomechanical beings with masks who come from outside the Matoran Universe, I see no reason to doubt that these will be masks.

Mask of Life is what he was referencing, I think. Why would a powerless mask/helmet be important?

 

Dunno about that.

 

I'm still almost positive I saw Greg call them helmets somewhere...

 

BtB

Just because the ones we've seen so far are powerless doesn't mean they all will be. BIONICLE is full of transformations and other magical stuff, and we haven't seen any of it in information on the coming year-- that doesn't mean we can discount such magic as something exclusive to the Matoran Universe.

 

If you can find a source where they're called helmets, that'd be great, even if the final outcome of this dispute does not favor my own preference for the BIONICLE storyline. At least then we'll have some confirmation. Until then, I'm basing my stand on glimpses we got of Bara Magna and possibly other places outside the Matoran Universe from Dwellers in Darkness. And that would seem to indicate that this upcoming err... face... covering... can indeed be called masks.

 

EDIT: From LEGO.com...

Ready for attack or defense his vine mask, double bladed shield and functional Thornax launcher serve him well!

Victory is within reach for this hero equipped with water inspired mask, translucent water blades & golden elements and functional Thornax launcher!

This icy cold villain is armed with spiky-icicle shoulders and mask, translucent ice axe and functional Thornax launcher!

Battle fiercely with his flame-claws, fire mask, shoulder armor and functional Thornax launcher!

This scorpion inspired warrior is powerfully equipped with scarab pincher mask, articulated tail shooter, injected armor and functional Thornax launcher!

S@H product descriptions and even BIONICLE.com bios have been wrong before (it's hard to forget after Icarax's bio described him as the Makuta of Metru Nui and gave that character's history), but until I see an authoritative source stating otherwise, it seems safe to assume that Glatorians do indeed wear masks.

 

There isn't such confirmation for other 2009 sets, however, and the BS01 Wiki states that the Agori at least wear powerless helmets. I have asked on the wiki what source they have for calling them helmets (as well as for using the term "Sand tribe" for what has been called the "Earth tribe" everywhere else), but I am willing to accept that LEGO might choose to call them helmets given that Berix's is scarcely a mask by real-world standards.

Greg's called them masks.

 

Powerless masks.

 

Anyway, what makes a mask a mask is the ability to suggest an appearance. Helmets are for protecting your head. If something does both, like Hewkii Mahri's head-apparel, then what is it?

 

But Toa don't wear Kanohi to protect their heads: Toa wear Kanohi to get powers. The Toa Mata and Nuva's masks got knocked off all the time. Not great head protection if you ask me.

 

Hewkii's thing, therefore, is a mask.

 

The Glatorian headwear is debatable: they hide the faces, but they also seem to protect them. I guess we have to go with Greg on this one and call them masks. I'd assume the reason they're masks is to please all us old BIONICLE fans who grew up with masks.

The difference isn't in the look or in how they attach. The difference is in the functionality.

 

A mask is to cover the face, and is usually decorative, spiritual, etc.

 

Helmets are used to protect the head, and sometimes helmets have masks.

 

In the case of the Toa/Matoran/Makuta, they wore masks not as a piece of protective armour, but as a practical means of power. These were more like weapons or tools, and when it came to the Universe's most populous inhabitants, they were purely decorative (outside of that whole, "we need them not to fall asleep" thing).

 

In the case of the Glatorian, these pieces are protective armour, used to, well, protect the head. That means that while the storyline may call them masks, they are, semantically, helmets. Pieces of armour. This is especially clear in Barix, Metus, and Malum, who all leave most of their face exposed, while still protecting their heads.

 

(They should couple their helmets with decorative masks that help inspire fear in their enemies, much like Japanese Samurai helmets had)

The difference isn't in the look or in how they attach. The difference is in the functionality.

 

A mask is to cover the face, and is usually decorative, spiritual, etc.

 

Helmets are used to protect the head, and sometimes helmets have masks.

 

In the case of the Toa/Matoran/Makuta, they wore masks not as a piece of protective armour, but as a practical means of power. These were more like weapons or tools, and when it came to the Universe's most populous inhabitants, they were purely decorative (outside of that whole, "we need them not to fall asleep" thing).

 

In the case of the Glatorian, these pieces are protective armour, used to, well, protect the head. That means that while the storyline may call them masks, they are, semantically, helmets. Pieces of armour. This is especially clear in Barix, Metus, and Malum, who all leave most of their face exposed, while still protecting their heads.

 

(They should couple their helmets with decorative masks that help inspire fear in their enemies, much like Japanese Samurai helmets had)

Well said, and it's hard to maintain my stand (at least in the case of Bara Magna's denizens) when you seem to be right on all points. Although to be honest, we don't know that Glatorians wear them for protection alone. In the Matoran Universe, even powerless masks were worn for a reason-- As you mentioned (prompting much friendly lulz in your understatement) Matoran would enter a coma-like state if left without them and eventually die. Agori, from what we have seen, do not do battle-- the Glatorian fights were made to prevent that since the planet's resources couldn't handle a full-scale war. So why they would need head protection in day-to-day life is beyond me. Ah, poor, silly Agori--you always manage to be the case we don't quite get.

 

Reasonable Aanchir submits on this point. Stubborn Aanchir insists that they're masks, but stubborn Aanchir still thinks that BIONICLE could do with hints of romance, among other story trivialities. So I give. DV is correct in that, semantically, the Glatorian and Agori head coverings are helmets according to everything we've seen so far. For all intents and purposes, you got me.

The difference isn't in the look or in how they attach. The difference is in the functionality.

 

A mask is to cover the face, and is usually decorative, spiritual, etc.

 

Helmets are used to protect the head, and sometimes helmets have masks.

 

In the case of the Toa/Matoran/Makuta, they wore masks not as a piece of protective armour, but as a practical means of power. These were more like weapons or tools, and when it came to the Universe's most populous inhabitants, they were purely decorative (outside of that whole, "we need them not to fall asleep" thing).

 

In the case of the Glatorian, these pieces are protective armour, used to, well, protect the head. That means that while the storyline may call them masks, they are, semantically, helmets. Pieces of armour. This is especially clear in Barix, Metus, and Malum, who all leave most of their face exposed, while still protecting their heads.

 

(They should couple their helmets with decorative masks that help inspire fear in their enemies, much like Japanese Samurai helmets had)

Well said, and it's hard to maintain my stand (at least in the case of Bara Magna's denizens) when you seem to be right on all points. Although to be honest, we don't know that Glatorians wear them for protection alone. In the Matoran Universe, even powerless masks were worn for a reason-- As you mentioned (prompting much friendly lulz in your understatement) Matoran would enter a coma-like state if left without them and eventually die. Agori, from what we have seen, do not do battle-- the Glatorian fights were made to prevent that since the planet's resources couldn't handle a full-scale war. So why they would need head protection in day-to-day life is beyond me. Ah, poor, silly Agori--you always manage to be the case we don't quite get.

 

Reasonable Aanchir submits on this point. Stubborn Aanchir insists that they're masks, but stubborn Aanchir still thinks that BIONICLE could do with hints of romance, among other story trivialities. So I give. DV is correct in that, semantically, the Glatorian and Agori head coverings are helmets according to everything we've seen so far. For all intents and purposes, you got me.

Well Greg has said that Bara Magna is a dangerus world, so they need protection from animals and Bone hunters. They have caravans, witch like in the real world, could get atacked, and what if violence brakes out. They would need to protect themselfves.

Also, Agori totally fight in the arena. Sometimes.

 

Haha.

Darn it DV, why do you have to be so good with words? =P

Also, Agori totally fight in the arena. Sometimes.

 

Haha.

You win. *headdesk*

 

And yet, Greg has said that he'd use the word "mask" in story... wish I could get that point across to the dudes at the wiki. But alas; guess I'll just have to wait until we finally see the word appear in a more reliable source than S@H.