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Inika/piraka Torsos: A Treatise


Aanchir

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Here. I spent good time on this; please read it.

 

EDIT: Since it has become clear from this and issues in my personal life that I'm just a horrible, insufferable person who is rude and heartless to people without even realizing it, I'm locking this entry. Yes, locking a discussion that hurts you is a tactic which is pathetic for an avid debater to use. But I ought to have nothing but shame for whatever so-called "talent" I might have with words. There is nothing more to say but that.

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For the respective paragraphs.

 

You do realize we're talking about human proportions, right? My shoulders are only a bit wider than my hips, not twice as wide. I dunno if you're some super, body building, half robot human, but most everyone else isn't. And anyway, the Metru torso has better proportions because it is so wide. The Inika torso is like 7 11 (thanks Choco ^__^) studs wide, the Metru one was almost 5.

 

You're right, it hardly can be argued that it is one of the best MOCing pieces. How many times do you see it used in a MOC that isn't a torso? Oh, and it has to look good. Probably none sans the huge Rahi Roa makes. Now look at the Mata body. You'll most likely find it at the core of all bigger than Toa MOCs. Anywhere from the leg, to the torso, to the head, you'll find it. Well maybe in more older MOCs considering BBC's MOC quality now-a-days. The compact design and better proportion with an abundance of connections make it an awesome piece to use in MOCing.

 

Nothing. Lego should use old pieces to make new torso pieces. I don't want another hunk of plastic, I want a custom torso made out of more than ~4 pieces, including pins. And it's Lego, they can make any piece they want, how could they not come up with another torso design? @ Link xDDDD ToM being the only one to appeal to nostalgia fans? Oh you.

 

Your face value seems to be a rant with a bunch of name-calling and shallow criticism but no real substance.

 

Dude. That is like saying a human is the same as a skeleton. There may be a few gears missing, but it's still the same thing right. :bigsmile: Also gears do make it complex and up the piece count. :o

 

That last paragraph is misunderstanding. He never said that, and if anyone has, they're wrong. That never happened.

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For the respective paragraphs.

 

You do realize we're talking about human proportions, right? My shoulders are only a bit wider than my hips, not twice as wide. I dunno if you're some super, body building, half robot human, but most everyone else isn't. And anyway, the Metru torso has better proportions because it is so wide. The Inika torso is like 7 studs wide, the Metru one was almost 5.

 

You're right, it hardly can be argued that it is one of the best MOCing pieces. How many times do you see it used in a MOC that isn't a torso? Oh, and it has to look good. Probably none sans the huge Rahi Roa makes. Now look at the Mata body. You'll most likely find it at the core of all bigger than Toa MOCs. Anywhere from the leg, to the torso, to the head, you'll find it. Well maybe in more older MOCs considering BBC's MOC quality now-a-days. The compact design and better proportion with an abundance of connections make it an awesome piece to use in MOCing.

 

Nothing. Lego should use old pieces to make new torso pieces. I don't want another hunk of plastic, I want a custom torso made out of more than ~4 pieces, including pins. And it's Lego, they can make any piece they want, how could they not come up with another torso design? @ Link xDDDD ToM being the only one to appeal to nostalgia fans? Oh you.

 

Your face value seems to be a rant with a bunch of name-calling and shallow criticism but no real substance.

 

Dude. That is like saying a human is the same as a skeleton. There may be a few gears missing, but it's still the same thing right. :bigsmile: Also gears do make it complex and up the piece count. :o

 

That last paragraph is misunderstanding. He never said that, and if anyone has, they're wrong. That never happened.

You win forever for this.

 

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I'm trying to figure out what to say...

Well, first, interesting at how you just let out your thoughts on an entry like that.

Second, I do think Neaku is being a tad harsh on you, though I disagree that Inika and Piraka torsos are the best thing ever.

Third, Neaku is wrong in saying that an Inika/Piraka torso is 7 studs wide. They are 11 studs wide (even wider on Kongu Mahri/Pohatu Phantoka. Ewwww) and totally disproportionate. I could agree to 9, I like building with 9 stud wide torsos, and 7 is ideal when looking at the Toa Mata. (The only thing kept consistent all these years is the width of the waist: 5 studs.)

I do not, however, know if a Metru torso is 11 studs wide as well. Where are you measuring from?

Now, onward...

 

You have a point with the Inika torso having posability. However, the proportions is what kills it, as well as being a big piece that is pre-made. It is, as it always has been, more impressive to have custom-built bodies (and nowadays custom limbs never hurt either). However, I have used Inika bodies to first get a feel for how I wanted my MOC to look, realizing that I must make the shoulder smaller and the body perhaps a stud or two longer. (Just maybe. Depends on how long the legs are.) This is one problem with using the Piraka torso on a Toa: it is 7 studs long (short) and can not be made longer without looking ridiculous. Personally, this is unacceptable.

 

Another problem with the Piraka torso: it hunches "forward" (sadly, a front seems to have been diminished, leaving Hewkii and Hahli Mahri, as well as Tahu and Gali Mistika, etc, armorless). Bad guys, sure, I guess, it makes them sinister.

 

Proportions not important back in 2001? I guess not, but then again, perhaps they looked just fine without their arms being wide off their body.

 

With dealing with his entry, however, good job in pointing out that each body is pretty much one big piece, to put it loosely. I've never heard it said that they are the only one with a big body pieces.

(OK, they are useful for things like Gadunka and Takanvua. Titans like those build off of them, using them not so much as a torso but as shoulders with joint balls at the ends so it stays secure.

 

There's also no way the Inika torso could have come about because of Piraka torso complaints. Sets are made a year-a year and a half in advanced. And TLG doesn't listen to our complaints, and it doesn't seem like the test groups didn't like them, since they keep coming back. (On good guys too (>.<))

 

 

On new pieces vs a new body: OK, I'll answer your question that nobody seems to address. Here's how I see it:

TLG really likes the bodies "because it works!" I believe a designer said in the interview. With things like that, I've given up almost, which is why I didn't complain about it in my views on the 2009 Glatorian. But that does not mean I don't want to see a new body that is two studs shorter in width! I do find the argument that they keep the body an old mold so they can make other, new pieces, because we do not see too many new pieces either. I guess this year we have new heads, helmets/masks, and weapons, but that seems to be all we get every year. We don't see too much new armor and the limbs and feet have been the same since the Inika. There are things like the Makuta Mistika feet/armor/claws and the Makuta Phantoka's wings and torso (which is odd itself since it's hollow), but nothing drastically new. I think that, from what I have seen, we want new bodies and limbs, but from the sounds of it that would mean sacrificing new helmets/masks and weapons. Seeing the reactions to Vorox's blade and Ackar's helmet (I am all for recoloring old masks, I'm sure you know), that would cause an uproar. The question is then this: would the members understand how awesome it is that we are getting new limbs and bodies? The bigger question is this: would TLG do this/how would the focus groups react? Judging by what we have heard from them, they don't care about the bodies being too wide or the arms being the same piece as years before as long as they can play with them as the new character since they don't look like last year's. (I don't know how much I care about new limb pieces as I do about using them incorrectly (too long arms; my personal distaste of Piraka legs on good guys) or having them in the same color (Gresh is probably bringing some MOCist's parts collection up to a dozen dark green Rahkshi legs; I would love to see the Rahkshi leg in white; on the contrary, Vorox's TAN Metru legs are amazing), and I don't know what else much can happen with original designs that aren't like the current ones.) I guess there's some new armor, when looking at Gali Mistika, the Makuta Mistika (as I already stated), and Skrall/Vorox, but is that enough to justify no new limbs or a new piece of chest armor to go over the Inika body?

 

I think that's it. Phew!

 

-CF

 

Edit: Also...

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FYI, that's not a rant. It's from a series of humorous talks of overused pieces in sets.

 

So you can all calm down now.

 

 

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For the respective paragraphs.

 

You do realize we're talking about human proportions, right? My shoulders are only a bit wider than my hips, not twice as wide. I dunno if you're some super, body building, half robot human, but most everyone else isn't. And anyway, the Metru torso has better proportions because it is so wide. The Inika torso is like 7 11 (thanks Choco ^__^) studs wide, the Metru one was almost 5.

First of all, we are comparing shoulder width, which is the same between Toa Metru and Toa Inika. The difference is the Inika torso has actual shoulders rather than stalk things with arms attached. And the width of the remaining part of the Inika torso, not counting the area where the Metru have ridiculously-thin stalks, is five studs wide, just like the Inika midsection. Funny how that works.

 

You're right, it hardly can be argued that it is one of the best MOCing pieces. How many times do you see it used in a MOC that isn't a torso? Oh, and it has to look good. Probably none sans the huge Rahi Roa makes. Now look at the Mata body. You'll most likely find it at the core of all bigger than Toa MOCs. Anywhere from the leg, to the torso, to the head, you'll find it. Well maybe in more older MOCs considering BBC's MOC quality now-a-days. The compact design and better proportion with an abundance of connections make it an awesome piece to use in MOCing.

Actually, what I said was that it can hardly be argued that it is one of the most useful torsos. And while I rarely look at MOCs outside those which are entered in contests, I can name two sets which used it as a part other than a torso: Karzahni and Gadunka.

 

And if you think the Mata torso is at the core of all bigger-than-Toa MOCs, obviously you are looking at the wrong MOCs. I see it used rarely, and if so it is either used unspeakably badly or it is used by an expert MOCist in a pure piece of art. It goes without saying that this does not constitute "most" bigger-than-Toa MOCs, and one needs only look at the BIONICLE.com gallery to see that "most" is a severe overstatement. Yes, many of the MOCs there are sloppy, but they are MOCs just as much as the brilliant contrivances of BZP's MOCist elite.

 

Oh, never mind, you go back and say older MOCs, pausing only to imply that anyone who does not use the Mata torso in this way is a poor-quality MOCist.

 

I personally find the Inika torso much more useful since all its connection points are on the same side, and it is concise enough to conceal with armor on a less bulky MOC (I rarely make larger-than-Toa MOCs myself, although I tend to use the Inika torso on those than my other MOCs, surprisingly).

 

Nothing. Lego should use old pieces to make new torso pieces. I don't want another hunk of plastic, I want a custom torso made out of more than ~4 pieces, including pins. And it's Lego, they can make any piece they want, how could they not come up with another torso design? @ Link xDDDD ToM being the only one to appeal to nostalgia fans? Oh you.

ToM being the only one to realistically appeal to nostalgia. That is, the only one to not propose ridiculous ideas like the use of custom torsos on canister sets. For many buyers, including myself, simplicity is a good thing-- if such were not the case LEGO would be bound to make more custom torsos, unless you are somehow implying that you are both more tasteful and more creative than LEGO's entire set design team. But of course you wouldn't imply anything that arrogant, would you? :rolleyes:

 

Your face value seems to be a rant with a bunch of name-calling and shallow criticism but no real substance.

And when did I call names? I stated the facts as-is. The Metru torso has almost exactly the same proportions as the Inika torso, although clearly you think shoulders are part of the Inika torso but not the Metru torso-- your definition of torso is questionable.

 

Dude. That is like saying a human is the same as a skeleton. There may be a few gears missing, but it's still the same thing right. :bigsmile: Also gears do make it complex and up the piece count. :o

Neither of which (IMO) is a good thing. A canister set should be simple and should have a moderate piece count. I have made many character-based MOCs (not including fan characters or revamps) with the intention of designing them as if they were sets, and I am usually able to adhere to a decent piece count.

 

Moreover, the part in question is the torso piece. Apparently, as you implied just above, the Metru torso consists only of the torso piece rather than the entire region which the Inika torso includes. So why, if you cut out the shoulders, wouldn't you also cut out the gears which are seemingly useless without shoulders to attach them to? Why would you cut out the Piraka spine when you fail to cut out the knob on the back? The point is that the parts which actually comprise the torso's structure are no more complicated in past torsos as they were in the Piraka torso.

 

That last paragraph is misunderstanding. He never said that, and if anyone has, they're wrong. That never happened.

Apologies, I misread that paragraph of his. My mistake.

 

I already replied to CF's blog entry, which adequately argues his point with accuracy and professionalism. Forgive me for not taking the time to reply to the comment here, but it contains many similar points (or points which you later revoked in your blog entry) and I have already spent a great deal of time on this reply. (Takes a while to get back into debating mode!)

 

FYI, that's not a rant. It's from a series of humorous talks of overused pieces in sets.

 

So you can all calm down now.

 

Apologies. I'm just a little defensive of the Inika and Piraka torsos. I am not just kissing up to LEGO by supporting their decision to continue the use of this torso-- I genuinely like it and try my best to utilize it in as many ways as possible in MOCs. Plus, to be honest, I was checking your blog for an old entry (apparently one which wasn't yours, but rather someone else's) which had a very offensive assumption about BS01's Certavus Contest-- needless to say, I was in a bit of a fervor when I wrote all those criticisms of each alarming (but apparently sarcastic) entry I passed in your blog. I did not intend the content of those comments to be any criticism of you in particular, but rather of the mindset many BZPers express that implies LEGO is poor at making decisions concerning the well-being of the BIONICLE line.

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