Should Bionicle Really Be Revived?

[bonesiii]

The pilots are awful...

If you need convincing to watch it, read synopsises of the first six episodes of Rise of the Snakes and skip to Episode 7, which is Tick Tock.

Please note, it's almost always unwise to go by such advice, as that's coming from your personal tastes, Neelh; GG's tastes may be different. I always advise watching from the start and judging for yourself. And I don't know where you get that the pilots (I assume you mean season 1? -- usually "pilot" means simply the first ever episode of something, not plural) are awful, but to each his own, I guess.

[Just A Dot]

 

 

I've seen nothing of Ninjago at all. I believe there is a TV show, but I no longer have cable. Is the series any good?

 

 

The pilots are awful, and currently on Lego.com. You only really need them for the plot setup. The rest of the series improves with the actual series, which are Rise of the Snakes (Season 2) and something else which I can't remember (Season 3). It doesn't pass the Bechdel Test, but it's witty, the female characters are stronger than some of the male ones, and they don't dumb it down. There's a really awesome plot twist that everyone knows now because it's all over the fandom, and then there's another smaller twist that made me really happy even though it was obvious.

 

If you need convincing to watch it, read synopsises of the first six episodes of Rise of the Snakes and skip to Episode 7, which is Tick Tock.

 

I'll have to take that into consideration.

[Lyichir]

 

 

 

I've seen nothing of Ninjago at all. I believe there is a TV show, but I no longer have cable. Is the series any good?

 

 

The pilots are awful, and currently on Lego.com. You only really need them for the plot setup. The rest of the series improves with the actual series, which are Rise of the Snakes (Season 2) and something else which I can't remember (Season 3). It doesn't pass the Bechdel Test, but it's witty, the female characters are stronger than some of the male ones, and they don't dumb it down. There's a really awesome plot twist that everyone knows now because it's all over the fandom, and then there's another smaller twist that made me really happy even though it was obvious.

 

If you need convincing to watch it, read synopsises of the first six episodes of Rise of the Snakes and skip to Episode 7, which is Tick Tock.

 

I'll have to take that into consideration.

 

I would actually agree with Bonesiii; start with the pilot. I don't know what Neelh's problem with it is (I liked it). In any case, it's not as unwatchable as the Chima pilot. The music is excellent, the characters are fun, and the plot, while perhaps a bit cliche, still holds together well. Moreover, I feel that it would be harder to get invested in the characters if you don't see where they come from and what they're each like, and the pilot is the best introduction in that respect.I do agree, however, that Tick Tock rises above everything that comes before it.If you need to watch Ninjago online, here's a handy trick: the British Ninjago site (http://ninjago.lego.com/en-gb/default.aspx) has all the episodes up to halfway through season 2. Those aren't available on the American site. They appear to have taken the pilot down, but you can find that by googling "Ninjago Pilot" if all else fails.

[Art Vandelay]

Perhaps it, if its needed, can be brought back in the more distant future by keeping setting but starting a fresh story that is still somehow connected to the original story. A bit like this...Imagine it being set millions of years after the current story. All of the characters we know are long gone. The main premise would be a great civilisation on a planet called Spherus Magna. The events of the old storyline are now nothing but a rarely mentioned legend upon which their society is based. The main story would involve a few characters discovering the story of the Great Beings and setting off on a quest to find them, perhaps....? The story would be virtually separate from the old one.

That could work, but I wouldn't want the old characters to be totally abandoned.

 

But if they did something like that, the new story could also occur millions of years in the past, long before the Core War.

[Tahu's Courage]

A lot of you guys are probably right. If Bionicle comes back, it will be fresh and new.

 

That'd be hard for me to deal with, especially if it's completely different from what it used to be back when it first started. But I could get used to it.

[Timelady Gallade]

If they bring it back, why not a few dudes for creator? Built in the old way, 3 in 1 and still bionicle.

[Art Vandelay]

A lot of you guys are probably right. If Bionicle comes back, it will be fresh and new.

 

That'd be hard for me to deal with, especially if it's completely different from what it used to be back when it first started. But I could get used to it.

 

I could also get used to it. But I would hope that they would make some sort of connection back to the old storyline at some point. They can't just abandon the Toa we know and love.

[Neelh]

 

The pilots are awful...

If you need convincing to watch it, read synopsises of the first six episodes of Rise of the Snakes and skip to Episode 7, which is Tick Tock.

Please note, it's almost always unwise to go by such advice, as that's coming from your personal tastes, Neelh; GG's tastes may be different. I always advise watching from the start and judging for yourself. And I don't know where you get that the pilots (I assume you mean season 1? -- usually "pilot" means simply the first ever episode of something, not plural) are awful, but to each his own, I guess.

 

 

I suppose that is so, but I'm just taking notes from the fandom. They're quite different from the main series, which is great.

 

Season 1 also refers to Rise of the Snakes, which is confusing, so we use 'Pilots' to refer to the first mini-series because it wasn't a full season, 'Rise of the Snakes' to refer to what can also be referred to as 'Season 1' or 'Season 2', and 'the last series' to refer to... Well...

 

But back to the main bit of the topic, we basically have Bionicle, just in a couple of different forms as Ninjago and Hero Factory. It's close, but the differences make them individual and not a plain copy.

[bonesiii]

No, the snakes were the second season. First season was the four main ninjas versus Garmadon and the skeletons.

[Lyichir]

No, the snakes were the second season. First season was the four main ninjas versus Garmadon and the skeletons.

You're both right. Cartoon Network treats the skeleton arc as a stand-alone special and the snakes as season 1 (since it's the first one that was contracted as a full "season"). M2Film (the production company) treats the skeleton arc as season 1 and the snake arc as season 2. What's important is that the pilot comes first, followed by the online mini-movies, followed in turn by the main series.

[bonesiii]

Oh... Are you saying Cartoon network actually uses the term "season 1" for the snakes? Officially?

 

('Cuz that's awkward... but now I get what he meant. I was thinking, it's true that the snakes arc is much, much longer than the original arc, but for example, LOST seasons 1-3 were each twice the length of "seasons" 4-6, and there's no absolute definition of "season" length. Also, calling snakes season 1 kind of implies Ninjago might have more long seasons which is cool... but I've kinda assumed that like most lines it might end soon. )

 

Anywho... let's try to get back on topic somehow -- bottom line is, many of us like Ninjago a ton and highly recommend watching the whole thing to see if you agree.

 

So... Bionicle revival.

[Art Vandelay]

I was just thinking that if Lego wanted to appeal to older fans at some point, they could resurrect BIONICLE for older fans (assuming older fans would still have an interest), and keep HF for younger kids.

 

 

Of course older fans probably wouldn't have as much interest, so that idea is out the window.

[Just A Dot]

I was just thinking that if Lego wanted to appeal to older fans at some point, they could resurrect BIONICLE for older fans (assuming older fans would still have an interest), and keep HF for younger kids.

 

 

Of course older fans probably wouldn't have as much interest, so that idea is out the window.

See, the problem with that is, as you said, not much interest. I'm not going to be buying more than 1-2 sets a year if it did come back, and that's only if I happen to like whatever building style they use.

 

So... Bionicle revival.

Talking about a toy line that's been dead for 3 and a half years is going to lead to a lot of off topic discussion!

[SarracenianKaijin]

Eh, maybe after a severe reboot or so.

 

A MNOG-styled flash-thing would be pretty neat.

[northmarch]

I was just thinking that if Lego wanted to appeal to older fans at some point, they could resurrect BIONICLE for older fans (assuming older fans would still have an interest), and keep HF for younger kids. .

I believe it has been stated that Lego wants to run multiple constraction lines so...Hero factory style line for younger kidsMore technic based line for olderish kidsUltra builds for system lovers :PAs long as as Bionicle still 'feels' like Bionicle I'm happy.I'm thinking the best path for the story would be to start fresh but retain strong ties to the existing world. E.g. Great beings, returning characters with amnesia (ones who didn't get much screen time). Relocation and minor time jump.As for the overcomplicating backstory (an excuse I never really bought for the lines initial discontinuation) a simple solution is checkpoints. We have a single continuing story with a masive underlying mystery (ala mata nui) but split the line up into chapters / sagas. One saga (e.g. Metru nui, ignition) lasts 2-3 years and is set up so than it can be told as an individual story separate to the rest. The end of one saga/beginning of the next is the checkpoint where it is easiest for new followers to jump in as they wouldn't require any more backstory than what is given. This may become a bit more difficult when we reach the new line equivalent of 08.

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

I'm all for a BIONICLE reboot, assuming it uses some of the same characters and utilizes areas of the universe without being drastically different. If BIONICLE was rebooted after say, a 10 year hiatus, the same characters could return for a new generation, and there would not be a complaint about similarities because... well, it's a new generation. I'd love it if the next BIONICLE story was about the Toa Nuva, 10 years later, against a new foe.

 

Reason I feel BIONICLE would do fine is because LEGO seemed to do everything right after it ended. HERO FACTORY launched successfully with a huge marketing campaign. They have TV episodes and films every year. LEGO is now making a full feature movie for theatres, and both Ninjago and Legends of Chima are building on the success of HERO FACTORY's campaign. What if BIONICLE had something that awesome? I'm sure it would catch the interest of more kids and the veteran fans alike.

 

I really hope they consider reviving BIONICLE in the future. I hope they learned from their mistakes and successes with this experimental line and will be able to create a more consistent successor to the franchise I grew up with.

 

-NotS

Edited July 23, 2013 by Nidhiki of the Shadows

[Just A Dot]

I'm all for a BIONICLE reboot, assuming it uses some of the same characters and utilizes areas of the universe without being drastically different. If BIONICLE was rebooted after say, a 10 year hiatus, the same characters could return for a new generation, and there would not be a complaint about similarities because... well, it's a new generation. I'd love it if the next BIONICLE story was about the Toa Nuva, 10 years later, against a new foe.

 

Reason I feel BIONICLE would do fine is because LEGO seemed to do everything right after it ended. HERO FACTORY launched successfully with a huge marketing campaign. They have TV episodes and films every year. LEGO is now making a full feature movie for theatres, and both Ninjago and Legends of Chima are building on the success of HERO FACTORY's campaign. What if BIONICLE had something that awesome? I'm sure it would catch the interest of more kids and the veteran fans alike.

 

I really hope they consider reviving BIONICLE in the future. I hope they learned from their mistakes and successes with this experimental line and will be able to create a more consistent successor to the franchise I grew up with.

 

-NotS

Sadly, LEGO didn't have that kind of budget when BIONICLE launched.

[fishers64]

 

I'm all for a BIONICLE reboot, assuming it uses some of the same characters and utilizes areas of the universe without being drastically different. If BIONICLE was rebooted after say, a 10 year hiatus, the same characters could return for a new generation, and there would not be a complaint about similarities because... well, it's a new generation. I'd love it if the next BIONICLE story was about the Toa Nuva, 10 years later, against a new foe.

 

Reason I feel BIONICLE would do fine is because LEGO seemed to do everything right after it ended. HERO FACTORY launched successfully with a huge marketing campaign. They have TV episodes and films every year. LEGO is now making a full feature movie for theatres, and both Ninjago and Legends of Chima are building on the success of HERO FACTORY's campaign. What if BIONICLE had something that awesome? I'm sure it would catch the interest of more kids and the veteran fans alike.

 

I really hope they consider reviving BIONICLE in the future. I hope they learned from their mistakes and successes with this experimental line and will be able to create a more consistent successor to the franchise I grew up with.

 

-NotS

Sadly, LEGO didn't have that kind of budget when BIONICLE launched.

 

 

They do now, though. And honestly I don't see money as the difference. If you have a bad story concept, no amount of money will redeem it; if you have a good one, sometimes it can overcome the lack of budget.

[Art Vandelay]

 

 

I'm all for a BIONICLE reboot, assuming it uses some of the same characters and utilizes areas of the universe without being drastically different. If BIONICLE was rebooted after say, a 10 year hiatus, the same characters could return for a new generation, and there would not be a complaint about similarities because... well, it's a new generation. I'd love it if the next BIONICLE story was about the Toa Nuva, 10 years later, against a new foe.

 

Reason I feel BIONICLE would do fine is because LEGO seemed to do everything right after it ended. HERO FACTORY launched successfully with a huge marketing campaign. They have TV episodes and films every year. LEGO is now making a full feature movie for theatres, and both Ninjago and Legends of Chima are building on the success of HERO FACTORY's campaign. What if BIONICLE had something that awesome? I'm sure it would catch the interest of more kids and the veteran fans alike.

 

I really hope they consider reviving BIONICLE in the future. I hope they learned from their mistakes and successes with this experimental line and will be able to create a more consistent successor to the franchise I grew up with.

 

-NotS

Sadly, LEGO didn't have that kind of budget when BIONICLE launched.

 

 

They do now, though. And honestly I don't see money as the difference. If you have a bad story concept, no amount of money will redeem it; if you have a good one, sometimes it can overcome the lack of budget.

 

I think Lego has a really great opportunity to make a huge comeback with BIONICLE because of their bigger budget now. HF isn't going anywhere at the moment, but I still like my idea of having HF for younger kids and trying to open up to an older audience as well with BIONICLE. They could hold back on their kid-friendly principles that caused Toa tools to be named such instead of being called weapons. I think that they could make new full feature BIONICLE movies for the theaters that could possibly have a PG13 rating. There are several things that they could do to open up BIONICLE and therefore Lego itself to an older audience, but those are just a few ideas that I think could make a big difference.

[Lyichir]

 

 

 

I'm all for a BIONICLE reboot, assuming it uses some of the same characters and utilizes areas of the universe without being drastically different. If BIONICLE was rebooted after say, a 10 year hiatus, the same characters could return for a new generation, and there would not be a complaint about similarities because... well, it's a new generation. I'd love it if the next BIONICLE story was about the Toa Nuva, 10 years later, against a new foe.

 

Reason I feel BIONICLE would do fine is because LEGO seemed to do everything right after it ended. HERO FACTORY launched successfully with a huge marketing campaign. They have TV episodes and films every year. LEGO is now making a full feature movie for theatres, and both Ninjago and Legends of Chima are building on the success of HERO FACTORY's campaign. What if BIONICLE had something that awesome? I'm sure it would catch the interest of more kids and the veteran fans alike.

 

I really hope they consider reviving BIONICLE in the future. I hope they learned from their mistakes and successes with this experimental line and will be able to create a more consistent successor to the franchise I grew up with.

 

-NotS

Sadly, LEGO didn't have that kind of budget when BIONICLE launched.

 

 

They do now, though. And honestly I don't see money as the difference. If you have a bad story concept, no amount of money will redeem it; if you have a good one, sometimes it can overcome the lack of budget.

 

I think Lego has a really great opportunity to make a huge comeback with BIONICLE because of their bigger budget now. HF isn't going anywhere at the moment, but I still like my idea of having HF for younger kids and trying to open up to an older audience as well with BIONICLE. They could hold back on their kid-friendly principles that caused Toa tools to be named such instead of being called weapons. I think that they could make new full feature BIONICLE movies for the theaters that could possibly have a PG13 rating. There are several things that they could do to open up BIONICLE and therefore Lego itself to an older audience, but those are just a few ideas that I think could make a big difference.

 

Lego already opens itself to an older audience in the right way: making more complex models that can still be enjoyed by children and families. I fail to see how a more "mature" Bionicle would be a good thing in any way. I seem to recall a great deal of people being turned off from the storyline as it became darker over the years, and the kid-friendly Mata Nui Online Game remains beloved by many older fans. And Lego has no need to reinvent their themes to be darker and edgier when kid-appropriate lines like Hero Factory and Ninjago have been so successful.

[fishers64]

 

 

 

I'm all for a BIONICLE reboot, assuming it uses some of the same characters and utilizes areas of the universe without being drastically different. If BIONICLE was rebooted after say, a 10 year hiatus, the same characters could return for a new generation, and there would not be a complaint about similarities because... well, it's a new generation. I'd love it if the next BIONICLE story was about the Toa Nuva, 10 years later, against a new foe.

 

Reason I feel BIONICLE would do fine is because LEGO seemed to do everything right after it ended. HERO FACTORY launched successfully with a huge marketing campaign. They have TV episodes and films every year. LEGO is now making a full feature movie for theatres, and both Ninjago and Legends of Chima are building on the success of HERO FACTORY's campaign. What if BIONICLE had something that awesome? I'm sure it would catch the interest of more kids and the veteran fans alike.

 

I really hope they consider reviving BIONICLE in the future. I hope they learned from their mistakes and successes with this experimental line and will be able to create a more consistent successor to the franchise I grew up with.

 

-NotS

Sadly, LEGO didn't have that kind of budget when BIONICLE launched.

 

 

They do now, though. And honestly I don't see money as the difference. If you have a bad story concept, no amount of money will redeem it; if you have a good one, sometimes it can overcome the lack of budget.

 

I think Lego has a really great opportunity to make a huge comeback with BIONICLE because of their bigger budget now. HF isn't going anywhere at the moment, but I still like my idea of having HF for younger kids and trying to open up to an older audience as well with BIONICLE. They could hold back on their kid-friendly principles that caused Toa tools to be named such instead of being called weapons. I think that they could make new full feature BIONICLE movies for the theaters that could possibly have a PG13 rating. There are several things that they could do to open up BIONICLE and therefore Lego itself to an older audience, but those are just a few ideas that I think could make a big difference.

 

 

First off, Lego is a kid's toy company. They are not going to suddenly change their business model because of a few people on a Bionicle fansite.

 

Second off, yes, they have the money to do a huge comeback which might be better than the first. But just because they have the money to do it doesn't mean that they have the story to do it. How many bad movies have you seen, with poor characters, slim plot, etc? Trust me, they exist. I don't want Bionicle down in that stack. Now, it's possible to start writing stuff out in order to find ideas, but when you actually find them, they better be really good, and then you start over there with that. But then you do it because your ideas are good, then, not because you have the money to do it. Having the money is not an excuse to do anything. Why they should they spend money to please you? Or worse, try to please you and fail?

 

Third, you assume that Lego is always going to have all this money. While I wish I could say that would always be the case, it is an unwise assumption. In further case, they came into all this money after they canceled Bionicle. I don't know what to make of that, but some people at Lego probably feel that Bionicle was an aging dinosaur that was holding the company back. It's going to take a lot to change that opinion, and it probably should.

 

Edit: Or worse, Lego could fall on hard times, run out of ideas, and then resort to Bionicle again because it "worked last time". I hope that doesn't happen.

Edited July 24, 2013 by fishers64

[Art Vandelay]

 

 

 

 

I'm all for a BIONICLE reboot, assuming it uses some of the same characters and utilizes areas of the universe without being drastically different. If BIONICLE was rebooted after say, a 10 year hiatus, the same characters could return for a new generation, and there would not be a complaint about similarities because... well, it's a new generation. I'd love it if the next BIONICLE story was about the Toa Nuva, 10 years later, against a new foe.

 

Reason I feel BIONICLE would do fine is because LEGO seemed to do everything right after it ended. HERO FACTORY launched successfully with a huge marketing campaign. They have TV episodes and films every year. LEGO is now making a full feature movie for theatres, and both Ninjago and Legends of Chima are building on the success of HERO FACTORY's campaign. What if BIONICLE had something that awesome? I'm sure it would catch the interest of more kids and the veteran fans alike.

 

I really hope they consider reviving BIONICLE in the future. I hope they learned from their mistakes and successes with this experimental line and will be able to create a more consistent successor to the franchise I grew up with.

 

-NotS

Sadly, LEGO didn't have that kind of budget when BIONICLE launched.

 

 

They do now, though. And honestly I don't see money as the difference. If you have a bad story concept, no amount of money will redeem it; if you have a good one, sometimes it can overcome the lack of budget.

 

I think Lego has a really great opportunity to make a huge comeback with BIONICLE because of their bigger budget now. HF isn't going anywhere at the moment, but I still like my idea of having HF for younger kids and trying to open up to an older audience as well with BIONICLE. They could hold back on their kid-friendly principles that caused Toa tools to be named such instead of being called weapons. I think that they could make new full feature BIONICLE movies for the theaters that could possibly have a PG13 rating. There are several things that they could do to open up BIONICLE and therefore Lego itself to an older audience, but those are just a few ideas that I think could make a big difference.

 

Lego already opens itself to an older audience in the right way: making more complex models that can still be enjoyed by children and families. I fail to see how a more "mature" Bionicle would be a good thing in any way. I seem to recall a great deal of people being turned off from the storyline as it became darker over the years, and the kid-friendly Mata Nui Online Game remains beloved by many older fans. And Lego has no need to reinvent their themes to be darker and edgier when kid-appropriate lines like Hero Factory and Ninjago have been so successful.

 

I'm not necessarily saying that it should have a darker storyline. In fact, I would like it to return to the mysteriousness of 2001-2003, in fact. I just think they would have to make it more mature to separate it from Hero Factory enough.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm all for a BIONICLE reboot, assuming it uses some of the same characters and utilizes areas of the universe without being drastically different. If BIONICLE was rebooted after say, a 10 year hiatus, the same characters could return for a new generation, and there would not be a complaint about similarities because... well, it's a new generation. I'd love it if the next BIONICLE story was about the Toa Nuva, 10 years later, against a new foe.

 

Reason I feel BIONICLE would do fine is because LEGO seemed to do everything right after it ended. HERO FACTORY launched successfully with a huge marketing campaign. They have TV episodes and films every year. LEGO is now making a full feature movie for theatres, and both Ninjago and Legends of Chima are building on the success of HERO FACTORY's campaign. What if BIONICLE had something that awesome? I'm sure it would catch the interest of more kids and the veteran fans alike.

 

I really hope they consider reviving BIONICLE in the future. I hope they learned from their mistakes and successes with this experimental line and will be able to create a more consistent successor to the franchise I grew up with.

 

-NotS

Sadly, LEGO didn't have that kind of budget when BIONICLE launched.

 

 

They do now, though. And honestly I don't see money as the difference. If you have a bad story concept, no amount of money will redeem it; if you have a good one, sometimes it can overcome the lack of budget.

 

I think Lego has a really great opportunity to make a huge comeback with BIONICLE because of their bigger budget now. HF isn't going anywhere at the moment, but I still like my idea of having HF for younger kids and trying to open up to an older audience as well with BIONICLE. They could hold back on their kid-friendly principles that caused Toa tools to be named such instead of being called weapons. I think that they could make new full feature BIONICLE movies for the theaters that could possibly have a PG13 rating. There are several things that they could do to open up BIONICLE and therefore Lego itself to an older audience, but those are just a few ideas that I think could make a big difference.

 

 

First off, Lego is a kid's toy company. They are not going to suddenly change their business model because of a few people on a Bionicle fansite.

 

Second off, yes, they have the money to do a huge comeback which might be better than the first. But just because they have the money to do it doesn't mean that they have the story to do it. How many bad movies have you seen, with poor characters, slim plot, etc? Trust me, they exist. I don't want Bionicle down in that stack. Now, it's possible to start writing stuff out in order to find ideas, but when you actually find them, they better be really good, and then you start over there with that. But then you do it because your ideas are good, then, not because you have the money to do it. Having the money is not an excuse to do anything. Why they should they spend money to please you? Or worse, try to please you and fail?

 

Third, you assume that Lego is always going to have all this money. While I wish I could say that would always be the case, it is an unwise assumption. In further case, they came into all this money after they canceled Bionicle. I don't know what to make of that, but some people at Lego probably feel that Bionicle was an aging dinosaur that was holding the company back. It's going to take a lot to change that opinion, and it probably should.

 

Edit: Or worse, Lego could fall on hard times, run out of ideas, and then resort to Bionicle again because it "worked last time". I hope that doesn't happen.

 

 

They wouldn't be bringing BIONICLE back for older audiences just because a few BZP members would like it. They would be bringing it back to open their company up to an older audience while keeping their younger audience with less mature themes like HF, Ninjago, and Chima. They wouldn't really be changing their business model, but rather expanding it.

 

And I'm not assuming they would have enough money to do a reboot of BIONICLE. This idea is conditional upon them having enough money to do it. And of course it is just that; an idea. It has nothing to do with reality. I'm just trying to say what Lego should do IF they were to reboot BIONICLE.

[Just A Dot]

They wouldn't be bringing BIONICLE back for older audiences just because a few BZP members would like it. They would be bringing it back to open their company up to an older audience while keeping their younger audience with less mature themes like HF, Ninjago, and Chima. They wouldn't really be changing their business model, but rather expanding it.

 

This here. I'd be all up for a PG13 BIONICLE.

[bonesiii]

Just keep in mind that two of the things being brought up here are kind of opposites -- having Bionicle aimed (slightly) older and having a TV show (which would inherently have to be aimed young to get any viewers of significant number, which is why HF seems so "kiddy" to yall in the first place ). You really can't have both.

 

And aiming significantly older never works unless we're talking really smart, reaaally expensive sets like Mindstorms.

 

I still say HF and Bionicle were aimed at the same target ages, more or less. Maybe one or two years' difference, but they were both meant for boys (mostly) at the early ages when they roleplay with toys the most. That's who buys sets.

[Art Vandelay]

Just keep in mind that two of the things being brought up here are kind of opposites -- having Bionicle aimed (slightly) older and having a TV show (which would inherently have to be aimed young to get any viewers of significant number, which is why HF seems so "kiddy" to yall in the first place ). You really can't have both.

 

And aiming significantly older never works unless we're talking really smart, reaaally expensive sets like Mindstorms.

 

I still say HF and Bionicle were aimed at the same target ages, more or less. Maybe one or two years' difference, but they were both meant for boys (mostly) at the early ages when they roleplay with toys the most. That's who buys sets.

 

You are right about that.

 

And I did say that it wouldn't really work originally, but I just thought I'd add to my theory anyway.

 

I was just thinking that if Lego wanted to appeal to older fans at some point, they could resurrect BIONICLE for older fans (assuming older fans would still have an interest), and keep HF for younger kids.

 

Of course older fans probably wouldn't have much interest, so that idea is out the window.

[Lyichir]

I just think a PG-13 Bionicle would be a bad business decision. From my experience, the younger fans of Bionicle were the ones who were most invested in the sets, and the older fans were most invested in the story. And the sets were where the money was. I've seen so many supporters of a Bionicle return who admit that they stopped buying the sets a few years before it ended, which means they themselves are partially responsible for its end.I just fail to see how aiming Bionicle at a smaller audience would make it more successful. Ninjago has been more successful than any theme Lego's ever produced, and part of that is due to its accessibility. Anyone with cable can watch Ninjago on TV for free, and the sets have a wide range of size and complexity so that any kids can enjoy them.

 

The age range of the biggest Bionicle sets back in the day went up to 16 at most. This means that, to revive it with PG-13 media, you're limiting the target audience to a range of three years (compared to the target age range of Bionicle sets back then, which was more than double that). The only sets with a minimum age range of more than 12 are the biggest and most complex sets available, and a theme with only those kinds of sets would be unsustainable. Sure, you could make sets aimed at younger kids while limiting the audience of the media. But that's stupid. Bionicle's greatest strength was the integration of sets and story, and by telling part of that audience that they can only have one or the other, you're giving them a great reason not to spend any money on the theme.

[Aanchir]

I just think a PG-13 Bionicle would be a bad business decision. From my experience, the younger fans of Bionicle were the ones who were most invested in the sets, and the older fans were most invested in the story. And the sets were where the money was. I've seen so many supporters of a Bionicle return who admit that they stopped buying the sets a few years before it ended, which means they themselves are partially responsible for its end.I just fail to see how aiming Bionicle at a smaller audience would make it more successful. Ninjago has been more successful than any theme Lego's ever produced, and part of that is due to its accessibility. Anyone with cable can watch Ninjago on TV for free, and the sets have a wide range of size and complexity so that any kids can enjoy them. The age range of the biggest Bionicle sets back in the day went up to 16 at most. This means that, to revive it with PG-13 media, you're limiting the target audience to a range of three years (compared to the target age range of Bionicle sets back then, which was more than double that). The only sets with a minimum age range of more than 12 are the biggest and most complex sets available, and a theme with only those kinds of sets would be unsustainable. Sure, you could make sets aimed at younger kids while limiting the audience of the media. But that's stupid. Bionicle's greatest strength was the integration of sets and story, and by telling part of that audience that they can only have one or the other, you're giving them a great reason not to spend any money on the theme.

Agreed. Really, BIONICLE was a toy aimed at kids. It had more depth to it than a lot of kids' toys not because it was aiming at an older audience, but rather because it was aiming at a generation of kids that seemed to be into that kind of complex storytelling and in-depth world-building. And really, its depth wasn't a huge problem until later on when it continued accumulating more and more layers of complexity with each passing year.Making it darker to appeal to an older audience seems like a rather silly move when part of the reason it failed was its capacity to alienate younger, less committed fans. Besides, making a franchise darker and more violent doesn't necessarily mean adding a lot of depth or emotional resonance. A lot of G-rated Pixar fare is far deeper and more heartfelt than many violent summer blockbusters.Furthermore, when you're a toy company and you've created a story with the explicit goal of selling toys, it does you no good to gamble on your story attracting older fans to your toys. The nature of the toy itself typically defines the age range you should target, and older audiences are less reliable audiences for toys in general. BIONICLE, as a result, was never deliberately aimed at kids over around age 16, and certianly not at adult audiences.

[~kh]

So there's this video called "BIONICLE Autopsy: The Return of BIONICLE and How It Would Be Handled" which I feel sums up my own opinions quite nicely.

 

One thing I would add, though, is that while BIONICLE shouldn't go after a necessarily PG-13 crowd, it is very possible to have a franchise that is kid friendly and yet has a lot of mature storytelling and characters. Child friendly but not childish. Avatar: The Last Airbender often stands out as the greatest example of this.

[Lyichir]

So there's this video called "BIONICLE Autopsy: The Return of BIONICLE and How It Would Be Handled" which I feel sums up my own opinions quite nicely.

 

One thing I would add, though, is that while BIONICLE shouldn't go after a necessarily PG-13 crowd, it is very possible to have a franchise that is kid friendly and yet has a lot of mature storytelling and characters. Child friendly but not childish. Avatar: The Last Airbender often stands out as the greatest example of this.

Avatar: The Last Airbender is a perfect example of why I feel people's demands for a PG-13 Bionicle are misguided. Avatar had no swearing, very little blood, and a fair share of humor (some of it unashamedly corny), yet managed to tell a mature and deep story all the same. Most of the things that would push Bionicle's rating up to PG-13 have no place in Bionicle, as far as I'm concerned, and would accomplish nothing except shrinking the theme's potential audience (which is absolutely the last thing a theme that failed to hold on to an audience once before needs).

[~Shockwave~]

 

So there's this video called "BIONICLE Autopsy: The Return of BIONICLE and How It Would Be Handled" which I feel sums up my own opinions quite nicely.

 

One thing I would add, though, is that while BIONICLE shouldn't go after a necessarily PG-13 crowd, it is very possible to have a franchise that is kid friendly and yet has a lot of mature storytelling and characters. Child friendly but not childish. Avatar: The Last Airbender often stands out as the greatest example of this.

Avatar: The Last Airbender is a perfect example of why I feel people's demands for a PG-13 Bionicle are misguided. Avatar had no swearing, very little blood, and a fair share of humor (some of it unashamedly corny), yet managed to tell a mature and deep story all the same. Most of the things that would push Bionicle's rating up to PG-13 have no place in Bionicle, as far as I'm concerned, and would accomplish nothing except shrinking the theme's potential audience (which is absolutely the last thing a theme that failed to hold on to an audience once before needs).

 

 

But Avatar wasn't really designed to sell you something. It was, from what I know, designed to tell a story. And I think that's the main problem with the story. Same thing with Transformers, It's made to sell you something, not to tell you a story.

[Aanchir]

 

 

So there's this video called "BIONICLE Autopsy: The Return of BIONICLE and How It Would Be Handled" which I feel sums up my own opinions quite nicely. One thing I would add, though, is that while BIONICLE shouldn't go after a necessarily PG-13 crowd, it is very possible to have a franchise that is kid friendly and yet has a lot of mature storytelling and characters. Child friendly but not childish. Avatar: The Last Airbender often stands out as the greatest example of this.

Avatar: The Last Airbender is a perfect example of why I feel people's demands for a PG-13 Bionicle are misguided. Avatar had no swearing, very little blood, and a fair share of humor (some of it unashamedly corny), yet managed to tell a mature and deep story all the same. Most of the things that would push Bionicle's rating up to PG-13 have no place in Bionicle, as far as I'm concerned, and would accomplish nothing except shrinking the theme's potential audience (which is absolutely the last thing a theme that failed to hold on to an audience once before needs).

 

But Avatar wasn't really designed to sell you something. It was, from what I know, designed to tell a story. And I think that's the main problem with the story. Same thing with Transformers, It's made to sell you something, not to tell you a story.

 

That's a very good point. To be honest, I don't think Avatar: The Last Airbender merchandise was ever as successful as Nickelodeon wanted it to be, and the conspicuous lack of The Legend of Korra toys and video games seems like it might be an indication that Nickelodeon has no idea how to make those kinds of things marketable.I think Transformers is the sort of thing people are thinking about with the naïve notion that the BIONICLE movies would have been more successful if they were "darker and edgier". But I don't think that kind of movie would really serve BIONICLE in the same way, nor would it be consistent with the LEGO Group's brand values. There's no doubt that TLG "played it safe" with the BIONICLE movies, perhaps safer than they might today, but that doesn't mean that keeping things kid-friendly hurt the BIONICLE movies in any meaningful way.I personally think the BIONICLE movies were probably better off without a lot of cliché robot fight scenes, since they instead made much more nuanced and tasteful narrative decisions. By placing Takanuva and Makuta in a kolhii match instead of a fight, Mask of Light reinforced his role as a trickster who toys with and manipulates his foes. By having Vakama hide from Makuta with his Mask of Concealment rather than confronting him head-on, Legends of Metru Nui reinforced Vakama's fear and doubt, not to mention made Makuta seem like a much more considerable threat. Edited July 28, 2013 by Aanchir: Rachira of Time

[~Shockwave~]

 

 

 

So there's this video called "BIONICLE Autopsy: The Return of BIONICLE and How It Would Be Handled" which I feel sums up my own opinions quite nicely. One thing I would add, though, is that while BIONICLE shouldn't go after a necessarily PG-13 crowd, it is very possible to have a franchise that is kid friendly and yet has a lot of mature storytelling and characters. Child friendly but not childish. Avatar: The Last Airbender often stands out as the greatest example of this.

Avatar: The Last Airbender is a perfect example of why I feel people's demands for a PG-13 Bionicle are misguided. Avatar had no swearing, very little blood, and a fair share of humor (some of it unashamedly corny), yet managed to tell a mature and deep story all the same. Most of the things that would push Bionicle's rating up to PG-13 have no place in Bionicle, as far as I'm concerned, and would accomplish nothing except shrinking the theme's potential audience (which is absolutely the last thing a theme that failed to hold on to an audience once before needs).

 

But Avatar wasn't really designed to sell you something. It was, from what I know, designed to tell a story. And I think that's the main problem with the story. Same thing with Transformers, It's made to sell you something, not to tell you a story.

 

That's a very good point. To be honest, I don't think Avatar: The Last Airbender merchandise was ever as successful as Nickelodeon wanted it to be, and the conspicuous lack of The Legend of Korra toys and video games seems like it might be an indication that Nickelodeon has no idea how to make those kinds of things marketable.I think Transformers is the sort of thing people are thinking about with the naïve notion that the BIONICLE movies would have been more successful if they were "darker and edgier". But I don't think that kind of movie would really serve BIONICLE in the same way, nor would it be consistent with the LEGO Group's brand values. There's no doubt that TLG "played it safe" with the BIONICLE movies, perhaps safer than they might today, but that doesn't mean that keeping things kid-friendly hurt the BIONICLE movies in any meaningful way.I personally think the BIONICLE movies were probably better off without a lot of cliché robot fight scenes, since they instead made much more nuanced and tasteful narrative decisions. By placing Takanuva and Makuta in a kolhii match instead of a fight, Mask of Light reinforced his role as a trickster who toys with and manipulates his foes. By having Vakama hide from Makuta with his Mask of Concealment rather than confronting him head-on, Legends of Metru Nui reinforced Vakama's fear and doubt, not to mention made Makuta seem like a much more considerable threat.

 

 

Darker and edgier can be good, but it's not the automatic solution to every problem. But When I watch Doctor Who, the darker episodes are much more enjoyable for me. And the Transformer movies where "mature" in all the wrong ways. Seriously, I want to see a TF movie with robot's fighting and stuff, not with adult content and potty humor.

But just because something has cartoony designs doesn't mean it's childish or can't be enjoyed by a wide audience. Tf: Animated has got to be my favorite TF cartoon. And I'm ok with a good fight scene.

But Avatar and LoK just seemed to make everything work. I only recall a few cringeworthy episodes, and those weren't that bad. And they managed the cheesy humor well.

[Just A Dot]

When I said I'd be up for a PG-13 BIONICLE, I didn't mean that's what I exactly wanted, I just meant that I wouldn't be against it. I know the odds of that actually happening are very low, and it wouldn't be too profitable for LEGO, but if for some odd reason it did happen, I'd not be against it.

 

Though if the sets had some more complex builds, then I'd probably buy more. Even just Rahi-styled complex from 2001.

 

The arguments brought up for Avatar really fit my beliefs on this. I don't care if they curse or not, or if there's blood or not, or anything like that. As long as I'm presented with a mature storyline, I'm going to follow it.

[darkslizer]

 

 

 

I've seen nothing of Ninjago at all. I believe there is a TV show, but I no longer have cable. Is the series any good?

The pilots are awful, and currently on Lego.com. You only really need them for the plot setup. The rest of the series improves with the actual series, which are Rise of the Snakes (Season 2) and something else which I can't remember (Season 3). It doesn't pass the Bechdel Test, but it's witty, the female characters are stronger than some of the male ones, and they don't dumb it down. There's a really awesome plot twist that everyone knows now because it's all over the fandom, and then there's another smaller twist that made me really happy even though it was obvious. If you need convincing to watch it, read synopsises of the first six episodes of Rise of the Snakes and skip to Episode 7, which is Tick Tock.

I'll have to take that into consideration.

I would actually agree with Bonesiii; start with the pilot. I don't know what Neelh's problem with it is (I liked it). In any case, it's not as unwatchable as the Chima pilot. The music is excellent, the characters are fun, and the plot, while perhaps a bit cliche, still holds together well. Moreover, I feel that it would be harder to get invested in the characters if you don't see where they come from and what they're each like, and the pilot is the best introduction in that respect.I do agree, however, that Tick Tock rises above everything that comes before it.If you need to watch Ninjago online, here's a handy trick: the British Ninjago site (http://ninjago.lego.com/en-gb/default.aspx) has all the episodes up to halfway through season 2. Those aren't available on the American site. They appear to have taken the pilot down, but you can find that by googling "Ninjago Pilot" if all else fails.

Oh, the music! I can never resist the theme of the Falcon, which I always referred to as Falcon's Flight. It's so Celtic and wonderful.

[KanohiCelt]

Bring them back. It would be great for a new generation to have fun with all the aspects of Bionicles.

[Just A Dot]

Bring them back. It would be great for a new generation to have fun with all the aspects of Bionicles.

OR, if it's brought back with a simple childish storyline, which it probably would be (so, it would be BIONICLE in name only), then the next generation will wonder what made us love BIONICLE so much as teens and young adults.

[Aanchir]

 

Bring them back. It would be great for a new generation to have fun with all the aspects of Bionicles.

OR, if it's brought back with a simple childish storyline, which it probably would be (so, it would be BIONICLE in name only), then the next generation will wonder what made us love BIONICLE so much as teens and young adults.

 

I doubt it WOULD be brought back if it were radically different from what it originally was. If TLG really needs a simpler storyline they can make up a new one; they don't have to radically redefine one they already had.Then again, the BIONICLE storyline wasn't TOO complex when it first started out. It had a lot of trivia to learn (a full map, full lexicon, and a pretty substantial bestiary), but the Quest for the Masks storyline was written to be moderately accessible and didn't have too many confusing twists and turns.Also, LEGO doesn't completely avoid complexity in its stories. The Ninjago storyline is rather complex in its own right, if you take the supplementary media like chapter books and graphic novels into account (even the show has some real complexity, and arguably more character development than BIONICLE ever had within a span of three years). And it's not any more silly or childish than the Mata Nui Online Game. It's doing a pretty good job avoiding a prohibitive level of continuity snarl, though, which was one of the things that afflicted the BIONICLE story in its later years. Edited August 21, 2013 by Aanchir: Rachira of Time

[Toa Zaz]

I think it's too soon. Bionicle is too familiar and a reboot would likely be too similar to later Bionicle and/or Hero Factory (building system, etc) or be too heavily scrutinized by fans for them to enjoy it. It needs to be remembered and have a fan base and all, but it should also have a nostalgia factor going for it that I think it lacks now. Like in the Lego movie, with the space guy and NBA all-stars minifigures they show that were from years ago; it wouldn't have been as amusing if they had used Chima or something instead, because it isn't old enough (and Chima sucks, but that's besides the point). Maybe they should bring it back ten years or so after Bionicle's over with; maybe even make a movie out of it like they might be doing with Ninjago and Hero Factory.

[Just A Dot]

I think it's too soon. Bionicle is too familiar and a reboot would likely be too similar to later Bionicle and/or Hero Factory (building system, etc) or be too heavily scrutinized by fans for them to enjoy it. It needs to be remembered and have a fan base and all, but it should also have a nostalgia factor going for it that I think it lacks now. Like in the Lego movie, with the space guy and NBA all-stars minifigures they show that were from years ago; it wouldn't have been as amusing if they had used Chima or something instead, because it isn't old enough (and Chima sucks, but that's besides the point). Maybe they should bring it back ten years or so after Bionicle's over with; maybe even make a movie out of it like they might be doing with Ninjago and Hero Factory.

BIONICLE IS pretty nostalgic... but I see what you're saying. I would want some kind of reboot down the line, but a while from now.

 

And if LEGO is now doing Simpsons, then why can't BIONICLE be more mature? Simpsons is PG13 from what I've seen, so I think a PG13 BIONICLE would work (or at least a high PG )

[Meiko]

No, I don't want to see Bionicle come back. After about 2003/2004, I started liking it less and less each year. When it came to a close, I was happy it was done, and it finished up good enough to suit me. I've moved on from it, and I feel like it would be rather pointless and a poor business decision if LEGO decided to bring it back.