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Questions on The Mask of Illusions...


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So the Mahiki is the mask of Illusion. The Great version allows the wearer to shapeshift into a being of similar mass to the wearer and imitate their voice, but not their powers. Due to Kopaka's use of a Noble Mahiki, it seems a Great version can also make holograms, or something very similar, but I never saw this aspect of the mask's power in its Great form.

The shapeshifting aspect seems to genuinely change the user physically, but what of the "hologram" use? Is this a Psionics based power, where the illusion of an image is put into the opponents mind? Or does the mask physically cast an illusion? Judging by the Muaka that Kopaka fought making Kopaka's doppelgangers fuzz and fade when biting them, I imagine the illusion is probably like a hologram, but I'm not 100% sure so I thought I'd ask.

And what do we think the range on these Holograms are? Within view, near you, or within any visual range?

Could you make these illusions bigger than the limits on shapeshifting? Say, could you make an illusion of a house (not a person), and make your opponent think a house had appeared around them to mess with them?

Didn't Takanuva develop an equivalent hologram ability with his light powers? Which do you think is better? Is it just how good Takanuva can get with his powers that's the deciding factor?

We only ever saw hologram illusions used to copy the wearer (Kopaka vs. the Muaka, I think that was it), but could this be used for illusions of others? For example, you're a Toa, you know a generic baddie is after you, but you're alone and don't want to fight. So you use you're Mahiki to generate the illusion of 5 other Toa (from your imagination) around you, so when your enemy sees you they will think they are outnumbered 6 to 1, and retreat rather than engaging at all. For greater credibility of the illusion, your holograms shout at your opponent for greater intimidation.

Now, I don't think the scenario I suggested is completely possible, but I painted a slightly exaggerated picture to show what I think is unlikely. For one, I don't think projected holograms could make sounds, since the word "illusion" generally refers to visual illusions, but I don't know if there's proof otherwise. Additionally, I don't think you can completely invent a person to shapeshift into, or cast an illusion of; I suspect it must be from memory. Additionally, I don't think illusions can have any physical effect (otherwise it's not an illusion).

What's the limit on the number of illusions that can be cast? I suspect it's a product of the users mental ability, but I don't know.

3. If we think that the wearer can only shapeshift or make a hologram of something from memory, do you think they could make a copy of a version of themselves? So could Toa Matau have made himself look Hordika again (not that he would want to)?

I'm asking because I had the idea of making your own camouflage. So, say you put on a ghillie suit, or something that made you very well camouflaged, then look at yourself in the mirror, and remember. You put on different types of camouflage (like desert, jungle, urban) and remember them. Later on, if you need to be more discrete, could you essentially shapeshift into your past "version", assuming that version had a similar mass to you now? In a mental fan-fic one of my Toa uses his Mahiki very effectively, including doing what I just described to improve his sniper role ability.

Could you shapeshift part of your body? Say you met a Skakdi with clawed feet, and in the middle of a fight you make your foot clawed so you can slash your opponent with a kick (obviously not a power, but a physical transformation that could work.)? Or do you have to completely transform?

Could you just "shapeshift" you voice, if you don't want to waste the effort of completely transforming for the sake of just imitating a voice?

If you shapeshift into someone, would you be able to do it if you just saw a picture of them from one angle? Could the mask successfully "make up" the rest?

Could a Mahiki user using an image would be able to copy the subject's voice too?

That's all for now folks! :)



Edited by NuvaTube
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Nice questions. I'm no expert, but I hope this helps:

  • The mask can imitate voices, but I don't think it can create voices from illusions you create. The voice imitation appears to be part of the shapeshifting powers, not the duplication powers. This would mean that you could create the illusion of Toa around you but they might not say anything...which could be just as disconcerting as them all yelling. However...I think that the illusion is probably just one of duplication, considering what little we know of said ability - Kopaka created two duplicates, but they did the same thing as Kopaka and looked the same as him. A knowledgeable enemy probably wouldn't be worried by such a display as they would know about the Mahiki's powers, but a Rahi or unintelligent character like Krekka might be.
  • From what we know, it can shapeshift into forms of similar mass (although Krekka seems like he'd be a lot more massive than Matau, so there appears to be a fairly large limit on what it can do, at least in Great form). Vahki are not alive - they are machines, and we've seen Matau imitate them, so I suspect that he could imitate something non-mechanical, for what good it would do him. A house would probably be out of the question, but I could see him being able to imitate a small statue. It seems like the Mask of Illusion would be able to match a camouflaged form, but from what we know they can only imitate other forms, not freely transform. I can see no reason why Toa Matau wouldn't be able to transform into Matau Hordika - however, I'm not sure he'd be able to create clothing for himself while transforming.
  • When we watched the fight, it was from Takua's perspective. There was no reason for Kopaka to put an illusion of himself into Matoro's head, so it's highly likely that the illusions are "real" and not mental.
  • The degree to which Takanuva uses his light powers would depend on his mastery over them. I suspect that an inexperienced Toa of Light would be unable to create realistic illusions, but with practice he could learn to do it quite well.

The Legend Lives...

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Let's see.

 

Boba beat me to most of it, but I'd like to comment on the house thing. Assuming you didn't mean changing into a house, and itnstead casting an image of one the way Kopaka cast images of himself around him, then the answer is yes, that can be done. We saw Teridax create an illusion around Vakama that made him think he was a Matoran again, along with believing Metru Nui to be completely undamaged. Same power, just a different source, so it's entirely possible.

 

For the voice thing, you have to have heard the voice, I'd think.

 

for the "creating the rest of an image from one angle," I don't think that works. You have to be at least somewhat familiar with what your subject matter looks like from most angles to make it convincing.

 

Also, I don't think you're limited to things from memory. If you have an image in your mind of what you want the illusion or shapeshift to look like, it should be possible for you to do it whether it's remembered or imagined. Teridax had never seen the Great Disk Matoran as Toa, so how could he have included that in the illusion? Simple. He imagined it and made it look convincing. Again, it's the power of illusion at work, just from a different source.

 

I think shapeshifting just a part of your body is also possible, though the user would have to be fairly experienced to be able to do it.

 

Number of illusions is likely to be limited by mental ability, like so many other powers. But it depends on the execution. Say I wanted to cast the image of an army of 50,000 men. Easy. I just make the ones closest to my intended target look most realistic, and the rest a little hazy, or even a simple 2D image that looks like it extends back much farther.

 

Basically, for any question concerning casting an image, think of it this way: You have an image of what you want to cast in your mind, and the mask lets you bring that out. You're really only limited by your imagination.

 

Hope that helps!

 

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I've got an old quote from Greg from June of 2010 about this because there was some debate going on at the time about the Mask of Illusion. Unfortunately it seems that Greg gave differing responses for questions similar to this to different people, which made it a nightmare to sort out. Anyways, here are the questions and answers:

 

5)Does a great Mask of Illusion allow the user to physically shapeshift? I ask this because there has been some debate on whether it is a physical change or the user just cast an illusion of a different being over their own body.
5b) If it is indeed a physical and actually shapeshift, does that mean that if a user turned into a Nui-Rama or a Gukko, they would be able to actually fly?
5c) And lastly, does a being have to shapeshift into an already existing creature or being, or could they be creative and just shapeshift a specific part of themselves? Like could a wearer shapeshift so that they have wings that could fly?

 

5) If it allowed them to physically shapeshift, it would not be a mask of illusion. If you are actually changing, where's the illusion?
To do what you suggest, it would be a mask of shapeshifting, not illusion.

 

 

So this kinda blew a big hole in everything that I thought we had been told about this mask, because we had been told, including by Greg I believe, that the user does indeed physically shape shift. Take this quote how you will, maybe Greg was just having a bad day and wanted to mess with us.

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I've got an old quote from Greg from June of 2010 about this because there was some debate going on at the time about the Mask of Illusion. Unfortunately it seems that Greg gave differing responses for questions similar to this to different people, which made it a nightmare to sort out. Anyways, here are the questions and answers:

 

5)Does a great Mask of Illusion allow the user to physically shapeshift? I ask this because there has been some debate on whether it is a physical change or the user just cast an illusion of a different being over their own body.

5b) If it is indeed a physical and actually shapeshift, does that mean that if a user turned into a Nui-Rama or a Gukko, they would be able to actually fly?

5c) And lastly, does a being have to shapeshift into an already existing creature or being, or could they be creative and just shapeshift a specific part of themselves? Like could a wearer shapeshift so that they have wings that could fly?

 

5) If it allowed them to physically shapeshift, it would not be a mask of illusion. If you are actually changing, where's the illusion?

To do what you suggest, it would be a mask of shapeshifting, not illusion.

 

 

So this kinda blew a big hole in everything that I thought we had been told about this mask, because we had been told, including by Greg I believe, that the user does indeed physically shape shift. Take this quote how you will, maybe Greg was just having a bad day and wanted to mess with us.

 

D': NO GREG NO D:

 

Ah well...that answers most questions...But that would be so weird, so do you basically hologram yourself into a different form...What if you turn into someone who has long arms and you don't...and then you have to pick something up...How would that work?

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I've got an old quote from Greg from June of 2010 about this because there was some debate going on at the time about the Mask of Illusion. Unfortunately it seems that Greg gave differing responses for questions similar to this to different people, which made it a nightmare to sort out. Anyways, here are the questions and answers:

 

5)Does a great Mask of Illusion allow the user to physically shapeshift? I ask this because there has been some debate on whether it is a physical change or the user just cast an illusion of a different being over their own body.

5b) If it is indeed a physical and actually shapeshift, does that mean that if a user turned into a Nui-Rama or a Gukko, they would be able to actually fly?

5c) And lastly, does a being have to shapeshift into an already existing creature or being, or could they be creative and just shapeshift a specific part of themselves? Like could a wearer shapeshift so that they have wings that could fly?

 

5) If it allowed them to physically shapeshift, it would not be a mask of illusion. If you are actually changing, where's the illusion?

To do what you suggest, it would be a mask of shapeshifting, not illusion.

 

 

So this kinda blew a big hole in everything that I thought we had been told about this mask, because we had been told, including by Greg I believe, that the user does indeed physically shape shift. Take this quote how you will, maybe Greg was just having a bad day and wanted to mess with us.

 

D': NO GREG NO D:

 

Ah well...that answers most questions...But that would be so weird, so do you basically hologram yourself into a different form...What if you turn into someone who has long arms and you don't...and then you have to pick something up...How would that work?

 

Well to answer that question, there would just be a hologram projected around your body so it could make your arms seem longer for example, or you could even just project what is behind you to appear invisible I would think.

 

Like I said though, I'm pretty sure that on other occasions Greg had told people via PMs that the user COULD actually physically shape shift. Unfortunately with the deletion of the archives and older threads, we can't find any of those quotes.

 

Anyways, how I interpret the shapeshifting part is that the user simply projects an illusion over themselves or around themselves. In this case though, I don't see why a user of a noble Mahiki couldn't still do this. One of Bionicle's remaining mysteries...

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Boba beat me to most of it, but I'd like to comment on the house thing. Assuming you didn't mean changing into a house, and itnstead casting an image of one the way Kopaka cast images of himself around him, then the answer is yes, that can be done. We saw Teridax create an illusion around Vakama that made him think he was a Matoran again, along with believing Metru Nui to be completely undamaged. Same power, just a different source, so it's entirely possible.

It's a bit unclear how each illusion works, though. The Mahiki appears to create a hologram of sorts, while I believe Makuta directly influences your mind similar to the Kanohi Olisi. Probably the Mahiki can do something similar if you focus it directly on the target person, but I don't know if anyone has done that in the story.

 

 

 

Ah well...that answers most questions...But that would be so weird, so do you basically hologram yourself into a different form...What if you turn into someone who has long arms and you don't...and then you have to pick something up...How would that work?

Anyways, how I interpret the shapeshifting part is that the user simply projects an illusion over themselves or around themselves. In this case though, I don't see why a user of a noble Mahiki couldn't still do this. One of Bionicle's remaining mysteries...

 

If you make long arms on your illusion self, just pick up the item normally and have the illusion arms bend. Mapping an illusion over yourself may require greater power than simply making duplicate holograms, explaining why the Noble version is only able to make minor images. I think that was just one example of it in use, though. The Noble Mahiki may were well be able to do other minor tricks; such as showing a silent image of a pile of Kolhii equipment on the ground, or maybe even borrow the visage of a nearby campfire to change your sword to look like a fire sword. I doubt it can fake proper light emission, heat, or the effect of impacting something.

Edited by Katuko
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Makuta's power (and Karzanhi's) both appear to be mental. I don't think they're the same as the Mahiki's power.

 

I doubt that the Noble Mahiki can do more than the Great Mahiki. As far as we know, it does not allow you to create illusions of other objects.

 

So...would it be plausible with a Great Mahiki....say if you're in a warehouse...full of boxes...and some generic bad guys come looking for you...could you make youself look like a box? Or create the image of a box to hide behind? Make your own visual cover? o_O XD

 

Or, say you're explaining something to your buddy, but you think it would just be easier if they could have a 3D diagram...Could you generate the illusion of a hologram to explain things better, like the tactical points of terrain or someones armour's weak points, or a certain object, say like this but more lifelike: http://assets.inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2013/09/Iron-Man-Movie-Prologue-Hologram-1.jpg

Edited by NuvaTube
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Makuta's power (and Karzanhi's) both appear to be mental. I don't think they're the same as the Mahiki's power.

 

I doubt that the Noble Mahiki can do more than the Great Mahiki. As far as we know, it does not allow you to create illusions of other objects.

 

So...would it be plausible with a Great Mahiki....say if you're in a warehouse...full of boxes...and some generic bad guys come looking for you...could you make youself look like a box? Or create the image of a box to hide behind? Make your own visual cover? o_O XD

 

Or, say you're explaining something to your buddy, but you think it would just be easier if they could have a 3D diagram...Could you generate the illusion of a hologram to explain things better, like the tactical points of terrain or someones armour's weak points, or a certain object, say like this but more lifelike: http://assets.inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2013/09/Iron-Man-Movie-Prologue-Hologram-1.jpg

 

To the first...there's nothing that I know of that would prevent this, but it has never been explicitly stated that it's possible to look like an inanimate object. Maybe you could look like a Rahi that looks like an inanimate object (like an elemental stone beast of some sort)?

 

For the second, I doubt it.

The Legend Lives...

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I doubt it can fake proper light emission, heat, or the effect of impacting something.

Light emission would be difficult to replicate that, I concur, but controlling your sense of temperature(This is separate from your sense of touch.)? That's well with in this mask's power. I found a lil' definition of illusion on wikipedia for you guys- "An illusion is a distortion of the senses". Even if the Mahiki is a noble all of your senses are fair-game for manipulation. So fake heat is possible. As for the effect of impacting something that really depends and what type of impact your referring too. My guess is that your thinking of physical impact like an actual hit; this is out of the mask abilities, but sending the illusion of a sharp sense of physical pain is completely plausible ability for a user of this mask to have.

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My guess is that your thinking of physical impact like an actual hit; this is out of the mask abilities, but sending the illusion of a sharp sense of physical pain is completely plausible ability for a user of this mask to have.[/color]

The BZPRPG had a big discussion about stuff like this, because players had a much larger range of conceived uses than canon ever did. Canon includes hologram duplicates of the wearer and the ability to alter how others see you, but nowhere is it mentioned that you can directly influence someone's senses such as blinding them with "bright light" or stunning them with "sharp pain". Sounds more like Psionics, to me, which directly influences your mind.

 

Images alone are enough to qualify the mask for the name of "Illusion", which - similar to "" is more poetic than more accurate names such as "Mask of Holograms" or "Mask of False Images". Back in 2001, when the mask was created, it was a lesser (Noble) power too, with the limits that imply. The masks were upgraded for the Toa of 2004, with Illusion gaining disguises and Invisibility gaining... er, longer duration, I guess. It's kind of telling that only Illusion and Night Vision actually displays any real difference from their weaker counterparts, and it is in the form of minor additions.

 

For that reason, I don't think we should attribute anything more than visuals and minor warping of sound/environmental factors to the mask. It seems to me like a mask for personal/close-range use, but not a mask made to directly hurt the opponent by stimulating pain sensitivity or anything.

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The mask is named illusions, yes, but like Katuko said, this is more of a loose interpretation of the mask's powers than a definition. For instance, the mask of concealment is not called the mask of invisibility despite this being a more accurate description. The masks seem to be given the coolest sounding name, rather than the most accurate. So no, the Mahiki can project hologram like images, which are physically projected and not in the target's head. This makes it easier on the user because they have to project one illusion, not several for every target. This would also allow the mask to work on machines and security cameras because there is a real image for them to see. The question that remains, however, is the nature of the "shapeshifting." I tend to learn more towards the idea of an illusion being projected over the user's body rather than them physically changing, and Greg has supported this. This quote from Web of Shadows also seems to imply illusion over real shapeshifting:

 

"The Toa of Air put the delay to good use, using his Mask of Illusion to take on the appearance of the Lohrak."

 

I think that the story team went with the word "shapeshifting" because it was the simplest way to describe the mask's power. For any head canon of fan fic purposes, I would say to create a separate mask of shapeshifting. Keep in mind that there is also Miserix's mask of mutation, which can achieve a similar function on someone else.

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Shapeshifting, to me, implies (at least in this context) that the shape (or appearance) of a Mahiki-using being is shifted, not the form of the being itself...

 

Yup I agree. Then again, go and look at the scene in LoMN where Matau is shapeshifted into the Vahki and attacks Whenua. If the form was only illusionary then Matau wouldn't be able to attack him using the weapons and arms of the illusion. I don't think the story team really thought this one out very well... :(

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Yup I agree. Then again, go and look at the scene in LoMN where Matau is shapeshifted into the Vahki and attacks Whenua. If the form was only illusionary then Matau wouldn't be able to attack him using the weapons and arms of the illusion. I don't think the story team really thought this one out very well... :(

How do we know he isn't actually far enough ahead to hit Whenua, with the illusion simply changing to accommodate for the posture placing the legs further back? As long as he has ground to stand on and is not, say, reaching several meters off a cliff edge with a shape-shifted appendage to grab something, we can probably assume that Matau is still a regular Toa behind the fake imagery.

 

But yeah, they did not think much about the exact sizes, I bet.

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