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"I am the mighty Tuma!" 

 

I think Tuma got a bit of a bad wrap in the TLR (as did all of the Skrall, really). His character was reduced to a mindless, power-hungry brute who basically just liked smashing things. If you look into the serials and comics and such, he had a much deeper character. He was strategic, planned things out and knew how to bide his time, until the advance of the Baterra forced him into action. 

 

I think he had pretty much the worst luck of most Bara Magna characters. Look at it this way: he was the last of the Leader-Class Skall. He had a massive responsibility to his people, to protect them and ensure they survived the Baterra. Everything was perfectly planned out. He had a traitor working with him, the Bone Hunters following his orders, and his army was undoubtedly the strongest and most experienced on the planet at the time.

 

So how the heck did he lose?

 

A random newcomer from another world entirely who barely knew how to fight shows up out of nowhere and threw a few lucky hits at a wound Tuma recently got on his back from an encounter with the Baterra. Mata Nui got lucky, and Tuma's life got ruined. 

 

Now he's stuck wandering the deserts with no support from his former tribe. I can't help but feel sorry for the poor guy. He had it all, and now he has nothing. anyone else agree with me? 

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Yeah, the way a lot of the Bara Magna characters and setting got mangled by TLR was always a bit unfortunate. (see also, Strakk turning into a cartoonishly villanous moron, Bone Hunters going from the most dangerous thing in the desert to cannonfodder) I suppose it was unavoidable, however, since the movie was written and in production before the rest of the story, including the serials. 2004 and 2005 were hit by this as well, but not as much, I think. 

Edited by dotcom
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Mata-Nui can't get anything right, eh?  :P

 

It is quite possible that, with everything you mentioned going in his favor, that he got overconfident. He didn't think strategically enough nor fully employ all his resources, likely expecting further effort would have been overkill. Such arrogance can lead to mistakes, in this case some rather disastrous ones that brought down the Skrall empire.


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Tuma had to lose because Mata Nui was the protagonist and as such, a few day's training is all he needs to take down a seasoned veteran because otherwise, the plot grinds to a halt as he is unmercifully slaughtered.

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I think Tuma might have thought Mata Nui was an overconfident rookie. I mean, he did literally arrive on the planet a few days ago. He didn't know that Mata Nui had been piloting a giant robot and witnessing fights and conflicts for the past 100,000 years. 

 

I mean, seriously, he's probably seen at least a few planets in conflict and probably had occasion to study fight styles. What Ackar probably did was show him how to apply that knowledge to a smaller form - move from the theoretical analysis to actually doing it. 

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I think Tuma might have thought Mata Nui was an overconfident rookie. I mean, he did literally arrive on the planet a few days ago. He didn't know that Mata Nui had been piloting a giant robot and witnessing fights and conflicts for the past 100,000 years. 

 

I mean, seriously, he's probably seen at least a few planets in conflict and probably had occasion to study fight styles. What Ackar probably did was show him how to apply that knowledge to a smaller form - move from the theoretical analysis to actually doing it. 

 

There's a difference between observing fighting and knowing how to fight, though. A wrestling fan is not a wrestler. Plus, Mata Nui was a robot the size of a planet, and he had no way of thinking he'd be anything other than that in his lifespan. What would he need fighting for? Why would he spend the time learning how to do fighting properly? At best, he probably filed some notes on fighting away with everything else he gathered on his journey, but remember, his mission was supposed to end fighting, not start more of it. Chances are, Bara Magna was the first time he ever personally fought.

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A random newcomer from another world entirely who barely knew how to fight

I've got a theory on that in my retelling; that's not necessarily a safe assumption. (And he held his own in the giant robot battle against Teridax too.) I'd rather not spoil it (though if you think about it long enough you can probably think of it yourselves :P), but another factor is the Mask of Life. It could give Mata Nui insights into what he could do, since both combatants were living things. I forget now if they agreed that it wouldn't "cheat" or whatnot, but that probably wouldn't really count as cheating.

 

(I also have a new take on that fight for my retelling that is almost certainly not canon, but would explain everything and also rescue Tuma's reputation. Sorry to be so mysterious, but yeah. :P)

 

Now he's stuck wandering the deserts with no support from his former tribe. I can't help but feel sorry for the poor guy. He had it all, and now he has nothing. anyone else agree with me?

Not really, he bad guy. :P I just feel sorry for the movie because of how low budget ended up ruining what could have been a great finale.

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 What would he need fighting for? Why would he spend the time learning how to do fighting properly?

 

but remember, his mission was supposed to end fighting, not start more of it.

Bingo. The thing is, in order to stop something, you have to know how it works. In order to stop a fight, you have to know what starts a fight so you can remove that reason, or give your opponent a reason to stop. (Incidently in TLR Mata Nui stops the Arena Matches (fights) by telling the Agori/Glatorian of the greater threat in the Skrall, and shuts down Tuma because he thinks the Bone Hunters/Skrall won't follow a humiliated leader and scatter. He was right about that, but he didn't realize the Bone Hunters would be loyal to Metus. It all makes sense.)

 

So obviously, part of Mata Nui's programming would include a learning algorithm to study fighting in order to stop it. You're right that automatically doesn't make him a fighting genius - that's where Ackar comes in. They just skipped the scene where he realized all the techniques he saw on Ataris II he could now use for himself.

 

There might be some luck in there - Tuma had a malfunctioning implant that day - but I think Mata Nui was a bit more experienced than Tuma thought and that made Tuma arrogant. Tuma thought Mata Nui was a pencil-stick school kid from downtown, when in reality Mata Nui was a wrestling fan who spent a few days training with a pro. Difference.

Edited by fishers64
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Mata-Nui can't get anything right, eh?   :P

 

It is quite possible that, with everything you mentioned going in his favor, that he got overconfident. He didn't think strategically enough nor fully employ all his resources, likely expecting further effort would have been overkill. Such arrogance can lead to mistakes, in this case some rather disastrous ones that brought down the Skrall empire.

 

I don't think it was arrogance. It was the Baterra. They turned out to be a lot closer to Roxtus than he initially anticipated, which forced him to accelerate his plans. After discovering the Baterra's location, he ordered his army to attack Atero the very next day, which I think is a testament to the fighting prowess of the Skrall. They demolished an entire arena and killed dozens of Glatorian and Agori in a completely impromptu attack. Imagine how much worse things would have been if he'd actually had the time to plan it out. 

 

Tuma had to lose because Mata Nui was the protagonist and as such, a few day's training is all he needs to take down a seasoned veteran because otherwise, the plot grinds to a halt as he is unmercifully slaughtered.

 

I bet there's an alternate universe where Tuma won. Imagine where the story might have gone from there. 

 

 

 

 

Now he's stuck wandering the deserts with no support from his former tribe. I can't help but feel sorry for the poor guy. He had it all, and now he has nothing. anyone else agree with me?

Not really, he bad guy. :P I just feel sorry for the movie because of how low budget ended up ruining what could have been a great finale.

 

 

I agree there. I think the fight could have drawn out a lot more to make it more interesting. And the Skrall making chicken noises and running around in terror while the Bone Hunters were treated like, as someone said, cannon fodder, was also extremely irritating.

 

But I still feel bad for Tuma. I mean, think about it. A leader class Skrall was literally brought down by an insect. 

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Tuma was a character from the Bara Magna story arc. Greg was rushed through that particular arc and forced to wrap things up earlier than he planned due to Lego ending Bionicle. Apparently, Greg had originally intended for the Bara Magna arc to last 3 years, but that didn't work out as we all know. When you compress a story like that, you have to cut corners somewhere. Tuma was most likely an example of this. I would imagine that, had Greg been given more time to write, Tuma would be a very different character in TLR.


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Yeah but he did take notes, but he never thought he'd use them.

 

Ackar did however teach Mata Nui to fight. Chances are that some of that knowledge helped.

 

And Tuma probably had reason to under estimate Mata Nui. That characterisation during the fight though...

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 What would he need fighting for? Why would he spend the time learning how to do fighting properly?

 

but remember, his mission was supposed to end fighting, not start more of it.

Bingo. The thing is, in order to stop something, you have to know how it works. In order to stop a fight, you have to know what starts a fight so you can remove that reason, or give your opponent a reason to stop. (Incidently in TLR Mata Nui stops the Arena Matches (fights) by telling the Agori/Glatorian of the greater threat in the Skrall, and shuts down Tuma because he thinks the Bone Hunters/Skrall won't follow a humiliated leader and scatter. He was right about that, but he didn't realize the Bone Hunters would be loyal to Metus. It all makes sense.)

 

So obviously, part of Mata Nui's programming would include a learning algorithm to study fighting in order to stop it. You're right that automatically doesn't make him a fighting genius - that's where Ackar comes in. They just skipped the scene where he realized all the techniques he saw on Ataris II he could now use for himself.

 

There might be some luck in there - Tuma had a malfunctioning implant that day - but I think Mata Nui was a bit more experienced than Tuma thought and that made Tuma arrogant. Tuma thought Mata Nui was a pencil-stick school kid from downtown, when in reality Mata Nui was a wrestling fan who spent a few days training with a pro. Difference.

 

 

You don't need to know how to fight to stop a fight, or even to know what starts a fight. Fighting techniques are useful for one thing: fighting. Mata Nui had no reason to believe he'd need to fight anything he couldn't squish with an enormous protodermis foot and god-like powers. If I was tasked to find a way to keep fights from happening, I'd focus less on what techniques they use to win a fight and more on how to stop it from happening in the first place. Unless you're suggesting the Great Beings intended to turn Spherus Magna into a police state with the data Mata Nui collected, fighting techniques were probably pretty low on the to-do list, if they were there at all. His data is probably far more sociological, focusing on what civilizations did to resolve conflicts in ways that DON'T explode their planets.

 

tl;dr there is pretty much no reason for Mata Nui to have given more than a cursory glance to the fighting styles of other planets, because they were irrelevant to his mission. I do not need to know the intricacies of ant social structure to solve an ant problem, and similarly, you do not need an excess of fighting knowledge to solve a violence problem.

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You don't need to know how to fight to stop a fight, or even to know what starts a fight. Fighting techniques are useful for one thing: fighting. Mata Nui had no reason to believe he'd need to fight anything he couldn't squish with an enormous protodermis foot and god-like powers. If I was tasked to find a way to keep fights from happening, I'd focus less on what techniques they use to win a fight and more on how to stop it from happening in the first place. Unless you're suggesting the Great Beings intended to turn Spherus Magna into a police state with the data Mata Nui collected, fighting techniques were probably pretty low on the to-do list, if they were there at all. His data is probably far more sociological, focusing on what civilizations did to resolve conflicts in ways that DON'T explode their planets.

 

tl;dr there is pretty much no reason for Mata Nui to have given more than a cursory glance to the fighting styles of other planets, because they were irrelevant to his mission. I do not need to know the intricacies of ant social structure to solve an ant problem, and similarly, you do not need an excess of fighting knowledge to solve a violence problem.

 

 

I'm not so certain about that. I think that the MU robot could indeed have been collecting data on fighting styles and techniques and weaponry and such (how else would it be able to adapt and defend itself if it encountered a hostile planet with the capabilities to actually damage it?). And I think the Great Beings themselves might have wanted that data for their own reference, to avoid making the mistakes they did in the past. Look at how well their last attempts to stop people fighting went: the Element Lords went to war, and then the Baterra only really exacerbated the situation instead of resolving it.

 

But even if that is the case, it wouldn't explain how he could have used this information or anything, since he lost all of that information when the Makuta virus brought him down. His memory banks were wiped along with those of the Matoran. So even if he'd once had all of that fighting knowledge, he didn't have it by the time he crashed into the oceans of Aqua Magna. And only his spirit was trapped in the mask and sent to Bara Magna, not the advanced memory storage units of the MU robot. He wouldn't have been able to take that information with him anyway. 

 

If the data wasn't actually deleted by the robot, then the one and only being who might have been able to access it was Makuta Teridax, and he's dead now. The information, if it even existed to begin with, is as dead as he is. 

 

None of which really explains how the heck Mata Nui managed to defeat Tuma. 

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I think he might have remembered some of it. The memory loss was partial - the ultimate objective of the Mata Nui robot - and that was restored by the computer of the GBs inside a fake active volcano.

 

Okay, I stand corrected. 


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@Nato Since when did Mata Nui lose his memory? How would he have known anything about himself when he explained to Ackar then?

 

When the robot got shut down by the viruses, most of the extended memory banks and stuff were corrupted. Mata nui lost the memories of his true purpose - reforming Spherus Magna - the same way the Metru Nui Matoran lost their memories of their pasts. And then Mata Nui was asleep for ages, and then he died. I'm betting he lost a lot more information in between.


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Tuma was a character from the Bara Magna story arc. Greg was rushed through that particular arc and forced to wrap things up earlier than he planned due to Lego ending Bionicle. Apparently, Greg had originally intended for the Bara Magna arc to last 3 years, but that didn't work out as we all know. When you compress a story like that, you have to cut corners somewhere. Tuma was most likely an example of this. I would imagine that, had Greg been given more time to write, Tuma would be a very different character in TLR.

Pretty sure Greg had little to nothing to do with the scene we're talking about, or the movie in general. I might be confusing a quote about the other three movies, though. Tried to search just now, failed. Anywho, your point is basically right, though. I think it was more a matter of the moviemakers spending too much money on earlier scenes and running out by the end, personally. :shrugs:

 

You don't need to know how to fight to stop a fight, or even to know what starts a fight. Fighting techniques are useful for one thing: fighting. Mata Nui had no reason to believe he'd need to fight anything he couldn't squish with an enormous protodermis foot and god-like powers. If I was tasked to find a way to keep fights from happening, I'd focus less on what techniques they use to win a fight and more on how to stop it from happening in the first place. Unless you're suggesting the Great Beings intended to turn Spherus Magna into a police state with the data Mata Nui collected, fighting techniques were probably pretty low on the to-do list, if they were there at all. His data is probably far more sociological, focusing on what civilizations did to resolve conflicts in ways that DON'T explode their planets.

 

tl;dr there is pretty much no reason for Mata Nui to have given more than a cursory glance to the fighting styles of other planets, because they were irrelevant to his mission. I do not need to know the intricacies of ant social structure to solve an ant problem, and similarly, you do not need an excess of fighting knowledge to solve a violence problem.

While I think you're right about most of this, fishers' argument accounts for it by the overconfidence point, which makes sense. Also, the body he was fighting with was literally held together by the Ignika's power. I think that probably makes the difference in allowing him to translate observations into action. (Plus some training with Ackar.)

 

(And like I said in my other post, there's another possibility I haven't seen people thinking of. But...well, no comment. :P)

 

Doesn't excuse a poor portrayal in the movie, but it does make sense Mata Nui could win. :) Basically, you're assuming that the observations had to be made with the intention all along of him personally fighting in a Toa-sized body, but there are factors that could allow him to combine that knowledge with the new realization that he needs to fight personally, and bridge the gap between theory and practice later. And there are several options for how to do that, all of which may actually be factors. :) But the Ignika is probably the biggest one, understanding life in a far more intuitive way rather than "book knowledge".

 

Edit:

 

But even if that is the case, it wouldn't explain how he could have used this information or anything, since he lost all of that information when the Makuta virus brought him down. His memory banks were wiped along with those of the Matoran.

Okay, this is a new one to me. What source does this come from? His portrayal in TLR certainly didn't seem like this; he referred several times to his past, mentioned Toa, etc. In any event, the Ignika's influence could still do what I said before; incorporating observations would just help it along.

 

Edit2: BS01 does say:

 

The virus damaged his memory, erasing some of the earlier portions of his life from his mind, as well as his ultimate mission.

That last bit I knew, but this doesn't say he lost the records of the alien observations. That was a major purpose of why he was sent out; I'd think the GBs would ensure those were protected. He himself was stored in memory banks too, after all, and wasn't deleted himself. Partial corruption is certainly possible, but does an official source actually confirm that in the case of the observations?

Edited by bonesiii

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 I do not need to know the intricacies of ant social structure to solve an ant problem.

Quite true. However, there are persons who study the intricacies of ant culture, simply to gain the knowledge of it. Mata Nui was a sapient being. It is plausible that he, in the same way an entomologist studies ants, studied the fighting techniques of various lifeforms out of curiosity. In fact, if I recall correctly, one of the primary reasons Mata Nui was overthrown was that he paid most of his attention to alien cultures, and not enough to those within him. Furthermore, there were beings with fighting skill in the Matoran Universe. Mata Nui had the ability to wipe his inhabitants of six months of their memories, so it seems perfectly feasible that he could access and copy their memories and skills. It's possible that he may have uploaded information from a warrior's mind, for some reason or other, and, as a side effect, gained some of his fighting skill.


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Sorry, I read this part ages ago...

 

The virus damaged his memory, erasing some of the earlier portions of his life from his mind, as well as his ultimate mission.

 

...and must have misinterpreted the meaning. Someone should go ask Greg what became of Mata Nui's other memories, and whether he encountered other civilisations during his travels. but I have a feeling he might give one of those answers along the lines of "we didn't come up with that stuff because it wasn't important to the present story". 


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Someone should go ask Greg... whether he encountered other civilisations during his travels.

We already know that. BS01:

 

Once Mata Nui had fully awakened, he was given several tasks by the Great Beings. Amongst those tasks were to observe other universes, so that he could gather information, before fulfilling his primary objective: to heal the planet of Spherus Magna.

(There's an error there, where "universes" should read "planets", but yeah.)

 

Also, this MNS image clearly shows aliens:

 

http://biosector01.com/wiki/images/0/0e/Art_Mata_Nui_Space_Travel.jpg

 

But yeah, asking Greg about if the alien-world observations survived the crash in the memory banks would be good.

 

I do not need to know the intricacies of ant social structure to solve an ant problem.

Somehow I missed this earlier. People who produce ant poisons to help you deal with ant problems actually DO study intricacies of ant... well, biology, but Mata Nui isn't trying to kill everybody, he's trying to save everybody. So surely this analogy actually works in favor of understanding intricacies of culture/psychology/actions (like fighting), etc.

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I do not need to know the intricacies of ant social structure to solve an ant problem.

Somehow I missed this earlier. People who produce ant poisons to help you deal with ant problems actually DO study intricacies of ant... well, biology, but Mata Nui isn't trying to kill everybody, he's trying to save everybody. So surely this analogy actually works in favor of understanding intricacies of culture/psychology/actions (like fighting), etc.

 

 

But studying ant biology is relevant to solving an ant problem. I could solve a violence problem being completely unable to fight if I simply knew the sociological reasons why fights happen, which I'm assuming is the information Mata Nui was gathering. I cannot think of a single reason for fighting techniques to be applicable in stopping fighting from happening in the first place.

 

The point about him possibly studying such things out of his own interest is valid, though. I guess I've been treating him as single-minded in his mission when, unlike the Matoran, he WAS sapient all along, and therefore could probably easily get caught up in otherwise-irrelevant parts of his studies.

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I do not need to know the intricacies of ant social structure to solve an ant problem.

Somehow I missed this earlier. People who produce ant poisons to help you deal with ant problems actually DO study intricacies of ant... well, biology, but Mata Nui isn't trying to kill everybody, he's trying to save everybody. So surely this analogy actually works in favor of understanding intricacies of culture/psychology/actions (like fighting), etc.

 

 

But studying ant biology is relevant to solving an ant problem. I could solve a violence problem being completely unable to fight if I simply knew the sociological reasons why fights happen, which I'm assuming is the information Mata Nui was gathering. I cannot think of a single reason for fighting techniques to be applicable in stopping fighting from happening in the first place.

 

The point about him possibly studying such things out of his own interest is valid, though. I guess I've been treating him as single-minded in his mission when, unlike the Matoran, he WAS sapient all along, and therefore could probably easily get caught up in otherwise-irrelevant parts of his studies.

 

 

This conversation has gone kind of off topic, but I like this new direction, so I'll roll with it.

 

The robot itself would have had a few reasons to be studying how other beings fight: 

  • To understand how to defend itself if it came under attack while traversing the planets.
  • Simply because the GB's programmed him to do it.
  • He had a gazillion sensors and could have easily recorded this information incidentally while studying the planet. 

Possible reasons the GB's might have wanted data collected relating to the fighting styles/capabilities of other planets:

  1. To assess whether they may pose a threat to the reformed Spherus Magna. 
  2. To see whether they would be easy to conquer/subjugate (I'm sure some of the GB might have had plans to go take over other worlds).
  3. To develop new methods for attempting to take down rogue creations of the GB - if the GB had a way of shutting down the Baterra, or Marendar, or reining in the Element Lords, they would have used them. Instead, they're all running rampant. The GB lost control of their own creations, and may have simply being looking for new strategies to defeat them.
  4. The GB simply crave knowledge. Perhaps they simply wanted to know everything they possibly could about these other planets and cultures?
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The point about him possibly studying such things out of his own interest is valid, though. I guess I've been treating him as single-minded in his mission when, unlike the Matoran, he WAS sapient all along, and therefore could probably easily get caught up in otherwise-irrelevant parts of his studies.

 

Right -- he wouldn't have been studying fighting techniques out of a thought that maybe someday he'd be fighting, but his curiosity about alien worlds could still cause him to have to study it, especially if some of them have it be as major a part of life as on Spherus Magna. (And he probably had knowledge of Spherus Magna too already included as I've theorized before.)

 

Also, he might think that winning some wars for good purposes might be necessary, and then the information could be given to warriors on the good side, though that's a sort of Pandora's box problem. But given that all he needed here was to hold his own and tip the balance of that fight, he wouldn't really need to use anything that long-experienced Glatorian wouldn't already know (and keep in mind Tuma probably knew less about personal fighting than the average Skrall sent to arena matches too).

 

I think his observations were generally just meant to be as detailed as he had time/resources to make them, with the "in case any of it later proves useful" idea. Although he would probably focus on certain priorities. :shrugs:

Edited by bonesiii

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I agree with your point about Tuma. He was more of the mastermind/strategist behind the operations, and I suppose that his extra height and size and heavy armour would have meant that he wouldn't have needed to be as skilled a fighter - he would have won through brute strength alone, and his armour would have blocked most incoming blows from a more agile opponent.

 

It was only his unfortunate run-in with those Baterra that left him open to attack, and Mata Nui only needed one bit of Ackar's advice to exploit that rather convenient weakness. I think if it weren't for that injury, things might have gone very differently. 

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But I still feel bad for Tuma. I mean, think about it. A leader class Skrall was literally brought down by an insect. 

 

Hey, insects are super awesome, man. Don't hate on them. :P

 

That is one thing I like about The Legend Reborn -- instead of most works of fiction, which treat insects, arachnids, and other arthropods as horrific and evil vermin, the insects actually save the day. Of course, they do so in a completely boring and hackneyed way, but hey, you win some, you lose some.


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What, the Legend Reborn? What in the world is that?  ;)  :P

 

I honestly just try my best to pretend that movie never existed. It was just Cringe-Fest 2010 for me when that thing came out. It was missed opportunity, it had great animation and the ability to really tell a good story outside of the serials and books, but it was just so hard to listen to all those cheesy lines. 

 

... which is why I don't blame how awful Tuma was presented at the end of the movie. In the books and serials, he was great and devious. To be honest, I don't feel like this discussion can settle much. The movie was ridiculous, and made bad decisions. 

 

But anyway, just think back to how much of Bionicle ran on coincidence. It's a fine little bit, so it's whatever. Plus when I saw the movie I didn't even know what the Baterra were or that they even existed, so I just thought Tuma had a weak spot for no particular reason.  :D Hey, I was a kid, don't hate.  ^_^

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I still don't understand why Mata Nui had to even fight Tuma, he is wearing a legendary Kanohi, THE IGNIKA! All the needed to do was make Tuma touch the mask or something, and do what happens when every other person touches the Ignika, curse them. He could have made Tuma unable to kill any being, like what happened with Dekar.


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I still don't understand why Mata Nui had to even fight Tuma, he is wearing a legendary Kanohi, THE IGNIKA! All the needed to do was make Tuma touch the mask or something, and do what happens when every other person touches the Ignika, curse them. He could have made Tuma unable to kill any being, like what happened with Dekar.

Mata Nui should have just kissed him on the cheek whole wearing the Ignika, uktimately freaking Tuma out and turning him into a cow or something. :*
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I still don't understand why Mata Nui had to even fight Tuma, he is wearing a legendary Kanohi, THE IGNIKA! All the needed to do was make Tuma touch the mask or something, and do what happens when every other person touches the Ignika, curse them. He could have made Tuma unable to kill any being, like what happened with Dekar.

 

Well, in the movie, Tuma did threaten to rip the mask from his face. Mata Nui should have just let himself be beaten, then let Tuma curse himself trying to pull the mask off. Then he could have used the mask to repair his own body and got back up while laughing uncontrollably at Tuma.

 

Best. Ending. Ever. 

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Even if Mata Nui lost he would have won.


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Has anyone read the TLR novelization? It's been a while since I read the whole thing, but I remember feeling sympathetic for Greg because it was so obvious he was trying to explain away literally ever one of the movie's mistakes, whether through extended thoughts, extra details, extra context, etc. I remember he tried to do the same with the Tuma fight, aside from giving an explanation for the back injury through the serials. I'll take a look at it later.

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I've heard about the novelization. Is it really better than the movie?

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Eh. Greg did a good job with Legends of Metru Nui and Web of Shadows, but the basic plot of The Legend Reborn is so bad, he couldn't save it, at least in my opinion.

 

Going back to the point of this thread, though, it does treat Tuma more respectfully than the film version.


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But didn't Greg write the 'basic plot of TLR'?

I remember in the credits it said written by Greg Farshtey, and I believe it is the only movie that credited him for something other than 'special thanks'.


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But didn't Greg write the 'basic plot of TLR'?

I remember in the credits it said written by Greg Farshtey, and I believe it is the only movie that credited him for something other than 'special thanks'.

 

Yes, I know Greg helped write it. I figured that it would be better communicated in his writing than in the movie, but I was wrong. Still a steaming pile of kikanalo dung.

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"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
-- Harlan Ellison

 

 

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But didn't Greg write the 'basic plot of TLR'?

I remember in the credits it said written by Greg Farshtey, and I believe it is the only movie that credited him for something other than 'special thanks'.

 

Yes, I know Greg helped write it. I figured that it would be better communicated in his writing than in the movie, but I was wrong. Still a steaming pile of kikanalo dung.

 

Key word 'helped.' Greg has limited say when it comes to a lot of things in the movies, as he shares the job with the studio's screenwriter. Greg wouldn't write a horrible Tuma in the movie, for example, and then try to fix the portrayal in the novelization if he wrote both. He was trying to use the book as damage control for all the liberties and screw-ups of the makers of the film.

 

The book is superior to the movie. I know certain parts improved a lot on scenes in the film. However, if a person doesn't TLR at all, the book is unlikely to change their opinion. 

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Credit goes to Linus Van Pelt (Formerly known as Cherixon) and Spectral Avohkii Enterprises

My Memoirs of the Dead entry, Reflectons:

http://www.bzpower.com/board/index.php?showtopic=7351

 

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I truly felt sympathy for the mighty Skrall Leader... the serials did a great job of expounding on his character, and yes the movie did a horrible job on portraying him properly. I feel that Tuma should've been given a grander defeat than what he had... all the planning and scheming and then suddenly boom, it's over. Also, Stronius was ordered to kill Metus if Tuma was ever defeated, what happened to that plan? It would've been an interesting plot twist (something Metus probably wasn't expecting)

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