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BIONICLE MAFIA XVIII: BY THE NUMBERS 2 - DIE HARDER


Voltex

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Rock the vote. Null should have always been abstention.

I do agree; somehow, somewhere along the line (before I started hosting) it became "don't lynch anyone" instead.

 

E: @shadowhawk: in this case, it means you want to switch null votes to abstentions.

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Oh. Well I guess if that is happening

 

Switching back from null to 19.

 

that makes 2 changes. I see none in the rules, so I assume you are going with two changes per person?

That's not the impression I got from Voltex's "Vote switches used."

 

That said, I'm beginning to think you're not the Detective. If you really knew who 19 was, you'd not have nulled.

Suspiciously like an attempt to gain popular credibility, in my opinion.

Edited by Quisoves Pugnat

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First of all: carp seems that way. D=

 

And, to be honest? It was. In order for my role to be effective I need to be able to convince the general population about me being the Detective, at least in a game like this. Thus, any way to increase my cred is good, because then you are more likely to actually prove that I am pro-village and wish to help.

 

As well, I completely misread the situation. I didn't realize a Dark Hunter was dead, and that because of that us killing 19 first round is not as important as I first thought it was.

 

Plus, let's face it. No other person has come up and said they were the detective, so if I was playing as a Mafian than the real Detective would have to either be completely incompetent or just not active at all. As well, I would have to, somehow, be absolutely positive that killing 19 was worth the Mafia losing a vote for possible bandwagons. If I outed myself as an mafian first round, then anywhere I vote would become Iocaine powder situation.   

 

There is very little reason why pro-village roles shouldn't release who they are, or at least the Detective. It might be for the better for the Turaga and the Medic to stay hidden, but idk. I am not either of those, so I don't know exactly what I would do.

 

TL;DR: I would have to be part of a Mafia group willing to take such a big risk this early in the game if I was Mafian. Whereas, as the Detective, it benefits me more to say and actually be the detective than faking it.

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First of all: carp seems that way. D=

 

And, to be honest? It was. In order for my role to be effective I need to be able to convince the general population about me being the Detective, at least in a game like this. Thus, any way to increase my cred is good, because then you are more likely to actually prove that I am pro-village and wish to help.

 

As well, I completely misread the situation. I didn't realize a Dark Hunter was dead, and that because of that us killing 19 first round is not as important as I first thought it was.

 

Plus, let's face it. No other person has come up and said they were the detective, so if I was playing as a Mafian than the real Detective would have to either be completely incompetent or just not active at all. As well, I would have to, somehow, be absolutely positive that killing 19 was worth the Mafia losing a vote for possible bandwagons. If I outed myself as an mafian first round, then anywhere I vote would become Iocaine powder situation.   

 

There is very little reason why pro-village roles shouldn't release who they are, or at least the Detective. It might be for the better for the Turaga and the Medic to stay hidden, but idk. I am not either of those, so I don't know exactly what I would do.

 

TL;DR: I would have to be part of a Mafia group willing to take such a big risk this early in the game if I was Mafian. Whereas, as the Detective, it benefits me more to say and actually be the detective than faking it.

The thing about this game is that, thanks to the numbers, claiming to be a certain role is not as risky as it would normally be. There's no necessary threat of hanging if other players disbelieve you. As for the absence of any other folks claiming to be the Detective, there are several probable explanations for that: The Detective is simply too cautious to reveal himself, even with the numbers system; the Detective has not been terribly active and has yet to see your claims of being a Detective; or perhaps, because you were the first to claim to be the role, the actual Detective doesn't want to risk discrediting himself by contesting your claim.

As for voting 19, it's not as if that number has any necessary significance. You might simply want to prevent your comrade (or yourself) from being hanged. Sure, you'd probably get discredited after the hanging, but you'd have made the Village's job a mite more difficult, and you'd be in no immediate danger.

 

Also, if you were the Detective, I don't see why you'd be so desperate to convince players of your credibility. And surely you'd want as many Mafiosi hanged as possible?

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The thing about this game is that, thanks to the numbers, claiming to be a certain role is not as risky as it would normally be. There's no necessary threat of hanging if other players disbelieve you. As for the absence of any other folks claiming to be the Detective, there are several probable explanations for that: The Detective is simply too cautious to reveal himself, even with the numbers system; the Detective has not been terribly active and has yet to see your claims of being a Detective; or perhaps, because you were the first to claim to be the role, the actual Detective doesn't want to risk discrediting himself by contesting your claim.

As for voting 19, it's not as if that number has any necessary significance. You might simply want to prevent your comrade (or yourself) from being hanged. Sure, you'd probably get discredited after the hanging, but you'd have made the Village's job a mite more difficult, and you'd be in no immediate danger.

 

Also, if you were the Detective, I don't see why you'd be so desperate to convince players of your credibility. And surely you'd want as many Mafiosi hanged as possible?

 

First, addressing 19: I think the number is more significant than you think. =P

 

It isn't as risky, and because of that the Detective is more powerful than normal. As well, you are right that the player won't necessarily be hanged, but it is still a fairly bad idea because that is a vote that the Mafia can't count on killing other's. So, yes, you are correct there.

 

As well, yes, most of your reasons for another Detective not showing up make sense. The second one, about the detective not being active, I think isn't a problem. Because Iborw wants the game to go as fast as possible, and thus I have reason to suspect that he chose more active players for roles. Again, because of the numbers, that isn't as big a deal as it would be in another. Granted, this is based entirely how I suspect he set up the game, and I have absolutely no way to prove this. It is just what I would probably do if I were hosting a game I wished to make sure went really fast. =P

 

Yes, it would give me a little bit, but again I just can't see a Mafian outing theirselves this early, especially first post after the scene. If there was a bandwagon towards the Mafian and the Mafia wished to protect them, then probably, but as a move from the getgo? Just doesn't sound like a good idea.

 

Why I want the village to trust me? Because having a voting bloc in these games has proven time and again how effective it is. By proving the fact that I am pro-town, I could then direct the game more efficiently. Although, with that logic then a mafian could be sacrificed to get y'all to trust them then they can feed you lies all game. I believe somebody did that once, but I can't think who or when atm.

 

The main reason why I backed off on 19 is because one mafian a scene is an alright turnover rate, and while it would be better to get as many as possible, I believed that keeping a double or triple hang from happening would be more important than anything else. TBH it was a mistake to change, especially because I can't change back (curses), and plus it seems multihangs wouldn't have happened with or without me changing. 

 

(I just want to mention how much fun this little debate is. This is super cool and makes me feel like such a logical player haha)

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Just so everyone is aware, I did decide all roles in this game by RNG.

Well.

One role was selected by me personally, but I guarantee that you will all assume it's the wrong player/role anyway.

 

E: also,

 

book_2_logo_v2_small.png

CHAPTER 3

Tune in for the most brutal death yet.

 
 
I normally wouldn't post this in a game topic (even thought they're sort of related), but several players in this game have been otherwise inactive in the Mafia games for awhile. Of those people, several also signed up to be characters in the epic linked above like way back in April/May, so I wouldn't be surprised if you've forgotten in that time.
 
Wooo
 
Anyway, voting closes in about 4.5 hours
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Yes, it would give me a little bit, but again I just can't see a Mafian outing theirselves this early, especially first post after the scene. If there was a bandwagon towards the Mafian and the Mafia wished to protect them, then probably, but as a move from the getgo? Just doesn't sound like a good idea.

Normally, I'd agree. However, with one Mafioso killed and one discovered (possibly the same one, granted,) I can see the Mafia getting a little desperate. I agree that it would be risky, but panic is a great risk-inducer, and I speak from my experience in Spacejitsu in saying that things going terribly wrong for the Mafia so quickly is a great way of inducing panic among its ranks.

 

 

Why I want the village to trust me? Because having a voting bloc in these games has proven time and again how effective it is. By proving the fact that I am pro-town, I could then direct the game more efficiently. Although, with that logic then a mafian could be sacrificed to get y'all to trust them then they can feed you lies all game. I believe somebody did that once, but I can't think who or when atm.

The problem here is that voting Null with the rest of the town is hardly the greatest way of proving that you are loyal to it. It's a choice that any role might conceivably make, a Mafioso as easily as an Innocent. The Detective, however, if he knows the identity of a Mafioso, would, I imagine, gain more from sticking to his guns and saying "I told you so" after a non-Mafioso is lynched.

 

 

The main reason why I backed off on 19 is because one mafian a scene is an alright turnover rate, and while it would be better to get as many as possible, I believed that keeping a double or triple hang from happening would be more important than anything else. TBH it was a mistake to change, especially because I can't change back (curses), and plus it seems multihangs wouldn't have happened with or without me changing.

That mostly makes sense, but I'm still not sure that this is consistent with you being the Detective. Wouldn't a successful hanging of a Mafioso you identified solidify your credibility? Then you could prevent multi-hangings a lot more easily.

 

And yes, this has been a fun debate. Thanks!

Edited by Quisoves Pugnat

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Because, as it stands, we seem to be in for a quad hang. Meaning that if the Turaga has voted (which he very probably has,) that someone is actually two votes ahead of everyone else.

 

But if he nulls, then null would have even more votes, so no one would die? Am I missing something?

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But if he nulls, then null would have even more votes, so no one would die? Am I missing something?

Voltex gave us the option of "Rocking the Vote." Seven such choices would change Null votes from counting against lynching to merely abstaining. Seven players Rocked the Vote, and so here we are now.

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As it stands right now, if you null, you're basically wasting your vote.

In future rounds, anyone who nulls shall have their vote designated to a suspect via RNG.

 

Also, keep in mind that the Turaga's true votes (the extra ones) will not be counted on the public list.

 

Suspects

#5 - 3

#12 - 3

#19 - 4

#24 - 3

Null - 7

 

Vote Switches Used: Quisoves, Aiwendil, Random Gibberish Person, Unit, Gengar

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