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Which Toa Mangai wore the Kakama?

Which Toa Mangai wore the Kakama?  

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This may be divisive, but I'm just going to say it... I/we (as in, BS01) am/are not going to accept whatever result this poll ends up with, until it gets a do-over. I understand it might be too late for some of the other things, but this is fresh (a day old! That's only stale in bakery terms!). There should have been a "don't want to know" option added at some point, as there should IN ALL FUTURE POLLS regarding canonization.

 

I understand that it's possible you thought the poll regarding the Toa Mangai's Kanohi was indicative of support for the entire affair, but ultimately it was more for discussion, and not representing all sides of the debate is not a good indication of trying to understand how the community, writ large, feels.

 

All polls should be structured as two questions; the first one being "do you want to know X" with the binary yes/no, and then "what do you want X to be" with the requisite options, then an additional "I don't want to know what X is", because people who vote that will answer in the same as above (with a small margin of error). This way, all sides of the debate are covered. Certain polls will be slightly more complicated (there will at some point have to be a "I want to know X, but do not want it to be any of the above" choice, where applicable). However, this poll is extremely simple in its few choices, and should absolutely be redone to encompass the oppositional side, because it's incredibly easy to do, and will satisfy the most people.

 

Abusing your General Manager powers over at BS01 to get what you want, eh. So is BS01 the final end-all authority over BIONICLE now? They can refuse whatever information because they don't like it. Fine. You win. You can get your new poll with your options. Celebrate. Rejoice. Now you can stop complaining on every single one of these topics. 

 

Poll Closed....

And new Poll Opened...

 

I don't believe Dorek and the other biosector01 staff made this decision based on 'what they wanted' but made the decision because otherwise it is excluding part of the community.  Like it or not their are going to be individuals who just don't want this information revealed, for a multitude of reasons, and as the poll was set up before, they had no voice in it. It was essentially 'This information is going to be decided upon, one way or another'. So while some may say that Dorek is abusing his powers, I don't believe he did, and I really doubt he didn't include the other members of the Biosector01 staff in the decision. 

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This stuff doesn't even matter to me anymore. Do whatever you want. I don't care.


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"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 4: Never Trust a Snake

"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 44: Corridor of Elders

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Hey, now that all sides are represented, I have absolutely nothing to complain about. My voice can be heard, I'm reasonably confident that every person's voice can be heard, and the end result will be the end result.

 

It was a controversial move, I'll give it to you, but at some point, somebody needs to put their foot down, if it's the only way things are going to be done right. Clearly my and others just saying "hey no, this isn't right" didn't work, so, other options.

 

I'm sorry if this has been unduly hard on Boidoh, or anyone for that matter, but just look at how easy it was to change things so that the poll is more encompassing; a snap of the fingers. I don't think this sort of change should have been difficult or emotionally taxing in any way, but it's still one that needed to happen.

 

that definitely is abuse of power, dorek - not cool. while i do agree that we need a "don't want to know" option on all these polls, there's more than one way to do that. for example, and for simplicity's sake, we should have just had one poll question that included all the options, and one of those options would have been "don't want to know." if people want to know, they'd vote for one of the other options, and we'd add those together to find out which group wins, then if more people want to know, the knowing option with the highest votes is the winner.

 

anyway, when did greg say that naho didn't wear the kakama? i thought he said that she wore it b/c that's why she was the one to sneak through enemy lines during the war and get reinforcements? of the options given, i voted for earth, but i think that naho should be the one to wear it.

Boidoh's actually the one that pointed out the problem of just including "I don't know" as an option; even if it's the "leading" option, it would have to massively outweigh the other choices combined in order to make a difference, since it wouldn't really be indicative of anything. Presenting it as a two tiered choice helps reduce margin of error, and provides a much more accurate result.

 

(I might have sucked at stats class, but I learned this much =P)

 

Greg discredited Naho wearing the Kakama years ago, and it was from that springboard that a poll was at some point held to determine which one she wore. The winning result was close to Huna, I believe (although I recall Healing making a strong showing, amusingly) but as far as anybody knows, the boards tanked before we could complete all that, so Naho was left with no Kanohi except for not a Kakama. Greg more recently said she DID wear a Kakama, but we're calling it a forgetcon (although I've mentioned in a few places that it's much more of a grey area, since there's nothing technically against it as far as we can tell).

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About Naho, when I had seen the addition of the Kakama for her Kanohi on BS01, I had imagined her to run at top speed, going trought the DH lines and reaching the nearby island of Metru Nui by running on the water, with the combination of her Elemental Power and her Kakama, during the Toa/DH War.
That would have been able to be an amazing scene... It's a pity it's not finally (and not possibly) canon  :(

 

Otherwise, I voted for "No" and "I don't want to know": I really liked the idea that Naho would have been able to wear the Kakama, and I don't really see the others Toa wearing it.

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For whats it's worth, I originally voted for the Toa of Earth.  Although with Yaldabaoth's book quote, I decided it might be better to leave this unknown.  But if this does go to Toa x,y or z, I could live with it, and I'd just think of it as a sort of irony(?) that that while we, the fans, know whose mask it was, the characters in story may/will never know whose mask it was.


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I voted the Toa of Earth.

 

Can you do a poll for Naho's Kanohi next?

 

 

At this point, I'm really discouraged from making any new polls. If people don't appreciate them what's the point?

 

 

Yeah But not everyone doesn't want them. We already have the Toa of the Green's Kanohi done, why not Naho? Someone we already know the name of. Plus considering how close to Gen 2 coming out this is it seems like a fitting final major canonisation, is Greg even going to be answering questions about Gen1 next year?


Tahu; Hau (x) Pakari (x) Kakama (x) Miru (x) Akaku (x) Kaukau (x). Lewa; Hau (x) Pakari (x) Kakama (x) Miru (x) Akaku (x) Kaukau (x). Onua; Hau (x) Pakari (x) Kakama (x) Miru (x) Akaku (x) Kaukau (x). Kopaka; Hau (x) Pakari (x) Kakama (x) Miru (x) Akaku (x) Kaukau (x). Pohatu; Hau (x) Pakari (x) Kakama (x) Miru (x) Akaku (x) Kaukau (x). Gali; Hau (x) Pakari (x) Kakama (x) Miru (x) Akaku (x) Kaukau (x). 

Vakama; Huna (x) Ruru (x) Komau (x) Mahiki (x) Matatu (x) Rau (x). Matau; Huna (x) Ruru (x) Komau (x) Mahiki (x) Matatu (x) Rau (x). Whenua; Huna (x) Ruru (x) Komau (x) Mahiki (x) Matatu (x) Rau (x). Nuju; Huna (x) Ruru (x) Komau (x) Mahiki (x) Matatu (x) Rau (x). Onewa; Huna (x) Ruru (x) Komau (x) Mahiki (x) Matatu (x) Rau (x). Nokama; Huna (x) Ruru (x) Komau (x) Mahiki (x) Matatu (x) Rau (x). 
Matoran; Hau (x) Pakari (x) Kakama (x) Miru (x) Akaku (x) Huna (x) 
Rahi; Infected Hau (x) Huna (x) Kakama (x) Komau (x) Pakari (x) Ruru ()

Promotional Kanohi - Vahi (x) Chrome Hau (x) Ruru (x) TNGM (x) Copper Huna (x) Copper Komau ()

 

An (x) means I have, a () means I dont.

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I don't want to know who wore the Kakama and I don't believe that anybody needs to know. As a writer, I appreciate the current freedom I have to interpret things such as this however I want, should the opportunity arise. I do not want to lose that creative freedom by being restricted to what other fans got the word "canon" slapped on top of.

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I only have two things to say this time.

 

Boidoh, as much as I support a lot of what you're doing... and I think given the circumstances your reaction was completely understandable, just to help you out a bit more... Dorek wasn't abusing his powers there. BS01 staff have the right to decide what is included on their site. That doesn't make it non-canon if you had kept the poll as it was and Greg agreed to the results. Just means BS01 wouldn't include it. I can totally understand why you were upset, but he is right that the poll should have been like this from the start.

 

And thank you for restarting it. (I wouldn't have required it under these circumstances, for reasons explained, but as topic starter you do have the right.)

 

Note that a similar misunderstanding could have been thrown at me for proposing (and hopefully soon implementing) a rule requiring polls here to have this kind of option. But that would be incorrect too; our power is given to try to keep things fair, and having this option in the poll does that. :)

 

 

 

Anywho... second thing... I voted yes and Earth. :) Glad to see yes is slightly winning.

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Anywho... second thing... I voted yes and Earth. :) Glad to see yes is slightly winning.

 

If Boidoh has lost the heart to finish this, can I? We might as well finish at this point, especially since a Toa Mangai who has been named hasnt been assigned a Kanohi yet.

  • Upvote 1

Tahu; Hau (x) Pakari (x) Kakama (x) Miru (x) Akaku (x) Kaukau (x). Lewa; Hau (x) Pakari (x) Kakama (x) Miru (x) Akaku (x) Kaukau (x). Onua; Hau (x) Pakari (x) Kakama (x) Miru (x) Akaku (x) Kaukau (x). Kopaka; Hau (x) Pakari (x) Kakama (x) Miru (x) Akaku (x) Kaukau (x). Pohatu; Hau (x) Pakari (x) Kakama (x) Miru (x) Akaku (x) Kaukau (x). Gali; Hau (x) Pakari (x) Kakama (x) Miru (x) Akaku (x) Kaukau (x). 

Vakama; Huna (x) Ruru (x) Komau (x) Mahiki (x) Matatu (x) Rau (x). Matau; Huna (x) Ruru (x) Komau (x) Mahiki (x) Matatu (x) Rau (x). Whenua; Huna (x) Ruru (x) Komau (x) Mahiki (x) Matatu (x) Rau (x). Nuju; Huna (x) Ruru (x) Komau (x) Mahiki (x) Matatu (x) Rau (x). Onewa; Huna (x) Ruru (x) Komau (x) Mahiki (x) Matatu (x) Rau (x). Nokama; Huna (x) Ruru (x) Komau (x) Mahiki (x) Matatu (x) Rau (x). 
Matoran; Hau (x) Pakari (x) Kakama (x) Miru (x) Akaku (x) Huna (x) 
Rahi; Infected Hau (x) Huna (x) Kakama (x) Komau (x) Pakari (x) Ruru ()

Promotional Kanohi - Vahi (x) Chrome Hau (x) Ruru (x) TNGM (x) Copper Huna (x) Copper Komau ()

 

An (x) means I have, a () means I dont.

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So just a tiny suggestion here... But upon the conclusion of these polls and any others, can the delivery boy show Greg the entire results instead of just the "winner"? I think he could make a much more informed decision upon seeing the whole picture about whether he wants to accept the results or not.

 

~|ET|~

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Why not.

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"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 4: Never Trust a Snake

"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 44: Corridor of Elders

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Stop calling this stuff "mystery". Mystery is stuff like, "How does the brain of the Matoran look?", or "What is 'destiny'?" These stuff are just things that the author of the story never really established.

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"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 4: Never Trust a Snake

"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 44: Corridor of Elders

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Stop calling this stuff "mystery". Mystery is stuff like, "How does the brain of the Matoran look?", or "What is 'destiny'?" These stuff are just things that the author of the story never really established.

 

If it's unknown, it's a mystery.

 

nounplural mysteries.
1.
anything that is kept secret or remains unexplained or unknown:
the mysteries of nature.

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...Yeah I think it can be called a mystery, but I don't think that: which Mask that random Toa Mangai wore, or "How does the brain of the Matoran look?"; are the type of mysteries that (help) made Bionicle great...


~ Sophistry: A way to be antidisuncorrect. ~


 


 


In a decade you might convince maybe a small tribe of people.


In a decade you might also conquer one million km2 of land,


& in over a thousand years you might have over a billion followers.


 


I like building things. Please don't break the big ones.


& evidential philosophies that dare to extrapolate beyond


an individual's direct experience aren't easily built.

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...Yeah I think it can be called a mystery, but I don't think that: which Mask that random Toa Mangai wore, or "How does the brain of the Matoran look?"; are the type of mysteries that (help) made Bionicle great...

 

As someone who appreciates how much room I have to add my own creations to any Bionicle stories that I happen to write, every mystery is one worth keeping unknown to me.


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Stop calling this stuff "mystery". Mystery is stuff like, "How does the brain of the Matoran look?", or "What is 'destiny'?" These stuff are just things that the author of the story never really established.

 

If it's unknown, it's a mystery.

 

nounplural mysteries.
1.
anything that is kept secret or remains unexplained or unknown:
the mysteries of nature.

 

For these masks, the information simply doesn't exist, not just unknown. Greg can keep his information secret from us, and that would be a mystery. However, stuff like this doesn't even exist, we are making it up. Therefore not a mystery. In the Matoran Universe, it could be a mystery. In real life, the information simply doesn't exist. That's like asking Greg a Fikou-Nui question. Does it make it a mystery because no information exists on it?

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"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 4: Never Trust a Snake

"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 44: Corridor of Elders

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Stop calling this stuff "mystery". Mystery is stuff like, "How does the brain of the Matoran look?", or "What is 'destiny'?" These stuff are just things that the author of the story never really established.

 

If it's unknown, it's a mystery.

 

nounplural mysteries.
1.
anything that is kept secret or remains unexplained or unknown:
the mysteries of nature.

 

For these masks, the information simply doesn't exist, not just unknown. Greg can keep his information secret from us, and that would be a mystery. However, stuff like this doesn't even exist, we are making it up. Therefore not a mystery. In the Matoran Universe, it could be a mystery. In real life, the information simply doesn't exist. That's like asking Greg a Fikou-Nui question. Does it make it a mystery because no information exists on it?

 

 

I would say that yes, it does. I enjoy the creative freedom I currently have and do not want to see it become restricted.


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Greg discredited Naho wearing the Kakama years ago, and it was from that springboard that a poll was at some point held to determine which one she wore. The winning result was close to Huna, I believe (although I recall Healing making a strong showing, amusingly) but as far as anybody knows, the boards tanked before we could complete all that, so Naho was left with no Kanohi except for not a Kakama. Greg more recently said she DID wear a Kakama, but we're calling it a forgetcon (although I've mentioned in a few places that it's much more of a grey area, since there's nothing technically against it as far as we can tell).

 

considering the amount of confusion over this, i think we should add naho as an option for the kakama wearer.

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Greg said no in the past, and as much as I'd like Naho to wear the Kakama (since I have an extra blue one lingering around), it's just the way it has to be.

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"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 4: Never Trust a Snake

"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 44: Corridor of Elders

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Greg discredited Naho wearing the Kakama years ago, and it was from that springboard that a poll was at some point held to determine which one she wore. The winning result was close to Huna, I believe (although I recall Healing making a strong showing, amusingly) but as far as anybody knows, the boards tanked before we could complete all that, so Naho was left with no Kanohi except for not a Kakama. Greg more recently said she DID wear a Kakama, but we're calling it a forgetcon (although I've mentioned in a few places that it's much more of a grey area, since there's nothing technically against it as far as we can tell).

considering the amount of confusion over this, i think we should add naho as an option for the kakama wearer.

 

At this point, it seems unfeasible (unless we get ANOTHER do-over, which seems unlikely, and might muddle things a bit =P). I wouldn't be opposed, though, necessarily. Just that it seems difficult to do (another fantastic reason why this kind of stuff should be discussed beforehand).
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Stop calling this stuff "mystery". Mystery is stuff like, "How does the brain of the Matoran look?", or "What is 'destiny'?" These stuff are just things that the author of the story never really established.

 

If it's unknown, it's a mystery.

 

nounplural mysteries.

1.

anything that is kept secret or remains unexplained or unknown:

the mysteries of nature.

 

For these masks, the information simply doesn't exist, not just unknown. Greg can keep his information secret from us, and that would be a mystery. However, stuff like this doesn't even exist, we are making it up. Therefore not a mystery. In the Matoran Universe, it could be a mystery. In real life, the information simply doesn't exist. That's like asking Greg a Fikou-Nui question. Does it make it a mystery because no information exists on it?

 

 

I would say that yes, it does. I enjoy the creative freedom I currently have and do not want to see it become restricted.

 

Just because something becomes canonized does not restrict the creative process. I can think of a number of cases where stories and mocs directly interfere with the canon, but were posted (and applauded) nonetheless. Would this be a discussion if Greg arbitrarily assigned the kanohi and weapons to the toa?

 

 

 

Greg discredited Naho wearing the Kakama years ago, and it was from that springboard that a poll was at some point held to determine which one she wore. The winning result was close to Huna, I believe (although I recall Healing making a strong showing, amusingly) but as far as anybody knows, the boards tanked before we could complete all that, so Naho was left with no Kanohi except for not a Kakama. Greg more recently said she DID wear a Kakama, but we're calling it a forgetcon (although I've mentioned in a few places that it's much more of a grey area, since there's nothing technically against it as far as we can tell).

considering the amount of confusion over this, i think we should add naho as an option for the kakama wearer.

 

At this point, it seems unfeasible (unless we get ANOTHER do-over, which seems unlikely, and might muddle things a bit =P). I wouldn't be opposed, though, necessarily. Just that it seems difficult to do (another fantastic reason why this kind of stuff should be discussed beforehand).

 

Perhaps a topic to discuss the structure should be created?


Hi.

If you remember me from when I was most active on BZP, from 2009-2011...

I know I was cringy. But please keep in mind I was literally 12.

 

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Just because something becomes canonized does not restrict the creative process. I can think of a number of cases where stories and mocs directly interfere with the canon, but were posted (and applauded) nonetheless.

 

Sure it doesn't prevent someone from just violating canon, but some people don't like doing that, & some don't like reading such things etc.

So it's still restrictive, just in a different way.


~ Sophistry: A way to be antidisuncorrect. ~


 


 


In a decade you might convince maybe a small tribe of people.


In a decade you might also conquer one million km2 of land,


& in over a thousand years you might have over a billion followers.


 


I like building things. Please don't break the big ones.


& evidential philosophies that dare to extrapolate beyond


an individual's direct experience aren't easily built.

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Just because something becomes canonized does not restrict the creative process. I can think of a number of cases where stories and mocs directly interfere with the canon, but were posted (and applauded) nonetheless. Would this be a discussion if Greg arbitrarily assigned the kanohi and weapons to the toa?

 

Perhaps - because Bionicle has been over for five years now. I'd rather leave it be. I cannot predict whether the discussion would be taking place if Greg had outright canonized everything without input from fans, but there would certainly be people unhappy about it this late in the game, and I would be one of them. 

 

Something being canonized does inherently restrict the creative process:

 

 

Just because something becomes canonized does not restrict the creative process. I can think of a number of cases where stories and mocs directly interfere with the canon, but were posted (and applauded) nonetheless.

 

Sure it doesn't prevent someone from just violating canon, but some people don't like doing that, & some don't like reading such things etc.

So it's still restrictive, just in a different way.

 

 

Iblis points it out rather eloquently. 

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Just because something becomes canonized does not restrict the creative process. I can think of a number of cases where stories and mocs directly interfere with the canon, but were posted (and applauded) nonetheless. Would this be a discussion if Greg arbitrarily assigned the kanohi and weapons to the toa?

 

Perhaps - because Bionicle has been over for five years now. I'd rather leave it be. I cannot predict whether the discussion would be taking place if Greg had outright canonized everything without input from fans, but there would certainly be people unhappy about it this late in the game, and I would be one of them. 

 

Something being canonized does inherently restrict the creative process:

 

 

Just because something becomes canonized does not restrict the creative process. I can think of a number of cases where stories and mocs directly interfere with the canon, but were posted (and applauded) nonetheless.

 

Sure it doesn't prevent someone from just violating canon, but some people don't like doing that, & some don't like reading such things etc.

So it's still restrictive, just in a different way.

 

 

Iblis points it out rather eloquently.

 

Perhaps. I'm still firmly on the side of "let's canonize whatever Greg let's us!", but on the other hand, I do think, in every stage of polling and discussion, the option to leave something unknown should be available.

 

At this point, there is no way possible to resolve the canonization discussion without at least some people being unsatisfied with whatever result emerges. at least with a well designed poll, we can at least have the majority be happy. If the majority end up being "leave it unknown", then from my perspective, so be it.

 

We may be on opposite sides of the canonization debate, but I think we can agree that a well-structured and fair poll is the way to go, for both pro and anti canonization parties.

Edited by JMSOG
  • Upvote 1

Hi.

If you remember me from when I was most active on BZP, from 2009-2011...

I know I was cringy. But please keep in mind I was literally 12.

 

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Just because something becomes canonized does not restrict the creative process. I can think of a number of cases where stories and mocs directly interfere with the canon, but were posted (and applauded) nonetheless. Would this be a discussion if Greg arbitrarily assigned the kanohi and weapons to the toa?

 

Perhaps - because Bionicle has been over for five years now. I'd rather leave it be. I cannot predict whether the discussion would be taking place if Greg had outright canonized everything without input from fans, but there would certainly be people unhappy about it this late in the game, and I would be one of them. 

 

Something being canonized does inherently restrict the creative process:

 

 

Just because something becomes canonized does not restrict the creative process. I can think of a number of cases where stories and mocs directly interfere with the canon, but were posted (and applauded) nonetheless.

 

Sure it doesn't prevent someone from just violating canon, but some people don't like doing that, & some don't like reading such things etc.

So it's still restrictive, just in a different way.

 

 

Iblis points it out rather eloquently.

 

Perhaps. I'm still firmly on the side of "let's canonize whatever Greg let's us!", but on the other hand, I do think, in every stage of polling and discussion, the option to leave something unknown should be available.

 

At this point, there is no way possible to resolve the canonization discussion without at least some people being unsatisfied with whatever result emerges. at least with a well designed poll, we can at least have the majority be happy. If the majority end up being "leave it unknown", then from my perspective, so be it.

 

We may be on opposite sides of the canonization debate, but I think we can agree that a well-structured and fair poll is the way to go, for both pro and anti canonization parties.

 

 

Yes, absolutely. The polls are a must, although I question whether BZPower should be the only fan site with polls towards this.

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Certain fansites ban canonization polls.

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Just because something becomes canonized does not restrict the creative process. I can think of a number of cases where stories and mocs directly interfere with the canon, but were posted (and applauded) nonetheless. Would this be a discussion if Greg arbitrarily assigned the kanohi and weapons to the toa?

 

Perhaps - because Bionicle has been over for five years now. I'd rather leave it be. I cannot predict whether the discussion would be taking place if Greg had outright canonized everything without input from fans, but there would certainly be people unhappy about it this late in the game, and I would be one of them. 

 

Something being canonized does inherently restrict the creative process:

 

 

Just because something becomes canonized does not restrict the creative process. I can think of a number of cases where stories and mocs directly interfere with the canon, but were posted (and applauded) nonetheless.

 

Sure it doesn't prevent someone from just violating canon, but some people don't like doing that, & some don't like reading such things etc.

So it's still restrictive, just in a different way.

 

 

Iblis points it out rather eloquently.

 

Perhaps. I'm still firmly on the side of "let's canonize whatever Greg let's us!", but on the other hand, I do think, in every stage of polling and discussion, the option to leave something unknown should be available.

 

At this point, there is no way possible to resolve the canonization discussion without at least some people being unsatisfied with whatever result emerges. at least with a well designed poll, we can at least have the majority be happy. If the majority end up being "leave it unknown", then from my perspective, so be it.

 

We may be on opposite sides of the canonization debate, but I think we can agree that a well-structured and fair poll is the way to go, for both pro and anti canonization parties.

 

 

Yes, absolutely. The polls are a must, although I question whether BZPower should be the only fan site with polls towards this.

 

An option, though complicated, is to involve other sites, have them run identical polls, bring ALL THE RESULTS to Greg (without stating which site it was from), and let him pick from the results.

 

Another is to have some sites decide the fate of some toa, and others decide the fate of others. (bzp gets information on the toa of earth, some other site gets Naho, etc).

 

I don't know how much intersite dialog has happened in my 4-year BZP hiatus, so I don't know how realistic an intersite canonization discussion would be. Although you are right, us having a monopoly on this is not the most fair thing.


Hi.

If you remember me from when I was most active on BZP, from 2009-2011...

I know I was cringy. But please keep in mind I was literally 12.

 

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Outside of the BFTGM competition, I don't believe there's much intersite discussion there is (outside of some people being members on multiple sites). It would probably more difficult and require more effort than it's worth, I guess.


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An option, though complicated, is to involve other sites, have them run identical polls, bring ALL THE RESULTS to Greg (without stating which site it was from), and let him pick from the results.

 

If something like that was going to be done I think a Google Survey would be one of the easiest & most straightforward.

 

Could have tonnes of questions;

Do you want Canonisations: Yes/No/Indifferent

Do you want a canon answer for X

What do you think X should be: A xor B xor C xor D xor A&E

Et cetera, et cetera...

 

Not necessarily in that language, but I think it would be the quickest way of doing plenty of these things; although before doing it we would need to try & ensure the questions are clear, concise, & actually relevant to Greg... So it's still not going to cut a lot of this out, but just throwing this out here. :)

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~ Sophistry: A way to be antidisuncorrect. ~


 


 


In a decade you might convince maybe a small tribe of people.


In a decade you might also conquer one million km2 of land,


& in over a thousand years you might have over a billion followers.


 


I like building things. Please don't break the big ones.


& evidential philosophies that dare to extrapolate beyond


an individual's direct experience aren't easily built.

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I think something on the LMB would be safer. Not sure how that works, but if inappropriate comments and the like are allowed, younger fans may be restricted from seeing it, and if flaming/trolling are allowed, voices of reason could be drowned out. I think our rigorous standards of moderating are another big part of why Greg trusts us for these things. The LMB would solve some of the issues, and could perhaps be moderated. But somebody would have to actually do it, and that's more work on them. If he uses us, we're already here for that. And anybody, again, who really feels the need to let their voice be heard on it, can join here as long as they behave.

 

There's downsides no matter what, but I think between the various options, some single other site is probably the worst one. I think it has to be either all fansites (or multiple prominent ones), just BZP, or the LMB. :shrugs:

 

One issue with multiple sites may be that Greg wants to be able to read some of the posts, and it may be too time consuming to try to do that across any number of sites versus one place. Also, be aware that the Story Squad already tried a project like that, and it didn't go anywhere.

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With the BFTGM, we have friendly intersite discussion right now. Perhaps if we informed Black Six, an intersite version of this could exist.

 

Although, you are right. If we can't get a well-regulated intersite poll, it would be best to do it here (but severly regulate it...I think the past few weeks show that this is a topic that can flare tempers), or on LMB.

 

I know i keep saying "lets ask greg", but...maybe we should ask greg what he would prefer.

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Hi.

If you remember me from when I was most active on BZP, from 2009-2011...

I know I was cringy. But please keep in mind I was literally 12.

 

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And anybody, again, who really feels the need to let their voice be heard on it, can join here as long as they behave.

On this one, I must say that not everybody does speak english. And not speaking english does not make them less interested by canon, and their opinion can be interesting.


Keep in mind that if Star Trek fans had, as a group, said, "No point in talking about this anymore, it's never going to come back," it never WOULD have come back.

-- Greg Farshtey

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And anybody, again, who really feels the need to let their voice be heard on it, can join here as long as they behave.

On this one, I must say that not everybody does speak english. And not speaking english does not make them less interested by canon, and their opinion can be interesting.

 

While this particular point would probably be better suited in one of the other topics, it's a really interesting issue, and one I'd like to see more about; clearly two of the biggest fansites are Russian and French, for instance, so in the case of inter-site dealings, especially if we wanted those perspectives, it might help to make it presentable. Edited by Dorek

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Stop calling this stuff "mystery". Mystery is stuff like, "How does the brain of the Matoran look?", or "What is 'destiny'?" These stuff are just things that the author of the story never really established.

Having unimportant background characters remain anonymous gives people freedom to interpret them however we like, to make MOCs, and to be creative. Suddenly you start rushing to "canonize" things like this, taking away all the mystery (and yes, I will call it mystery all I want, because that IS what it is), taking away that freedom and putting a stop to creativity. You're not doing this to contribute to the story, you're just doing this for bragging rights, so you can say "I made this canon!", "Remember those Toa Mangai? I did that!".

Also rather than asking the community as a whole, letting a large number of people have a say in it, you're just making polls on a fan forum with about 20-40 people voting, most of the polls don't even have a "I don't want to know" option, and if any of this stuff gets "canonized", people will have to dig through forum posts in order to find little bits of information to piece the whole thing together. 

Greg Farshtey is in charge of the story, not you. Stop pressuring him to canonize all your fanfiction. 

Bionicle is coming back in less than a month, why can't we stop messing with the old story and focus on this new universe and these new sets LEGO has made for us? 

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"Having unimportant background characters remain anonymous gives people freedom to interpret them however we like, to make MOCs, and to be creative."

 

What takes away their freedom if it is canon? I made a lot of MOCs for BFTGM and I found ways to still make it agree with the canon story. I think for one of my MOCs, one of them came from an Alternate Universe. If you want to make a Toa Mangai but it doesn't agree with canon, you can say that is is an AU Toa Mangai. 

 

 

 

"Suddenly you start rushing to "canonize" things like this, taking away all the mystery (and yes, I will call it mystery all I want, because that IS what it is), taking away that freedom and putting a stop to creativity. You're not doing this to contribute to the story, you're just doing this for bragging rights, so you can say "I made this canon!", "Remember those Toa Mangai? I did that!"."

 

It's not mystery, it is just some characters that got mentioned in one throwaway line in Legacy of Evil. I don't see how giving masks to these characters, who were at most mentioned in a single throwaway line, is gonna change anything much. You don't HAVE TO make all your MOCs canon. Whatever looks good is good enough, you don't have to make it match every single canon detail. Even if you still wanted to, you could do something like this. Let's say that you wanted to make the Toa Mangai of Ice, and one of their masks ended up being a Mask of Conjuring. A Mask of Conjuring doesn't exist in set form, but you could always just tell your self that whatever mask you made it wear is the Conjuring in a different shape.

 

On the second part, what gives you the right to throw allegations at me? Who are you to tell me what I am thinking in my head. You are throwing insulting allegations at me with no basis. There is no need for you to throw baseless accusations at me just because you are upset about something. Besides, what are bragging rights? Where do bragging rights get you? I'm sure no one here cares who made what canon. They don't care who made it canon, just what is made canon. (Well, I suppose they could care who did it, but only to insult them about what they didn't like) 

 

 

 

"Also rather than asking the community as a whole, letting a large number of people have a say in it, you're just making polls on a fan forum with about 20-40 people voting, most of the polls don't even have a "I don't want to know" option, and if any of this stuff gets "canonized", people will have to dig through forum posts in order to find little bits of information to piece the whole thing together."

 

Exaggeration? I would never turn in the results of a poll if only a meager 20-40 people voted. The lowest amount of people who voted on a poll was 80-something people. Please stop trying to throw insults here. And no, no one has to dig through forum posts, that's why BS01 exists. In fact, if no one reads BS01's esoteric information, then it shouldn't matter to anyone.

 

 

 

"Greg Farshtey is in charge of the story, not you. Stop pressuring him to canonize all your fanfiction."

 

Did I ever say that I'm in charge of the story? More baseless accusations? I'm not "pressurring him" to canonize all my fanfics. I suggest that you should get your facts straight before coming here to make accusations. One person on the LMB asked Greg if the last Toa Mangai was a Toa of Fire, and Greg responded that it should be left to us. I told him I would make a poll and he said OK. The Green won and I took the results to him and asked if I could make a poll for the Kanohi, he said yes to both. Then I took the results and asked if I could have a poll for the weapon, he agreed to both. Then someone from the LMB asked if there could be polls for all the Mangai's Kanohi, surprisingly, Greg agreed. So here we are now. No one is pressuring Greg. It takes him less than 2 seconds to write "Yes.". The person who is getting pressured the most here is me. I have to make the polls, for starters, something that takes time, and I'm sure Greg has enough work to do and doesn't have the time to create polls, plus he can't come to BZP any more. I'm also pressure by the number of ignorant members here who throw insults because they're not getting their way.

 

 

 

"Bionicle is coming back in less than a month, why can't we stop messing with the old story and focus on this new universe and these new sets LEGO has made for us?"

 

That's like saying, "Pokemon X and Y has come out, why are you still playing Pokemon Red?". Well, because it is still fun, it is still engaging. (And Greg is still answering questions. :P) There is so much stuff left unanswered. I don't see why people think that we cannot like something of the old just because new stuff is here. That is ridiculous. I still play classic games from the NES, but I also have a Wii U. I don't have to ignore my NES games because I have the new modern awesome Wii U. If something is still fun, then keep doing it. I don't need Debbie Downers to tell me to stop messing with the old story. You can move on if you want to, but I don't see why I can't be a double dipper.

 

 

EDIT: Now I could see where your getting your misinformation from. You've seen the latest TTV podcast haven't you? Normally, I do not have anything against them. I like their channel. Though I couldn't help but cringe from all the misinformation that was spread throughout that episode. (And the even mocked at that in the episode :P ) Many things they mentioned were not true and were purely based off of assumptions and speculation.

 

I don't mean to sound like the TTV haters that were abundant during the BIONICLE 2015 rumour period, but I can say for sure that this time, a lot of the things mentioned were just speculation. (I never thought I would ever be saying that. :P )

Edited by Boidoh
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Add me on 3DS: 0516-7750-0068

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"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 4: Never Trust a Snake

"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 44: Corridor of Elders

Like, Comment, And Subscribe for Nintendo Content - NinBoidoh

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"Having unimportant background characters remain anonymous gives people freedom to interpret them however we like, to make MOCs, and to be creative."

 

What takes away their freedom if it is canon? I made a lot of MOCs for BFTGM and I found ways to still make it agree with the canon story. I think for one of my MOCs, one of them came from an Alternate Universe. If you want to make a Toa Mangai but it doesn't agree with canon, you can say that is is an AU Toa Mangai. 

 

Because some people distinguish between fanworks than could fit in with canon, and those that are stuck in an Alternate Universe.

That you can be content with an Alternate Universe is fine for you, but forcing other peoples works into an AU seems unnecessary, & if you're so content with your stuff being AU's why do you want to canonise these minor points which disrupt more people than leaving them how they've been for years?

 

I seriously suggest you look at this page if you haven't already: Expendable Alternate Universe.

It relates to canon multiverses, but it really shouldn't be hard to see why this applies just as much to certain fanworks;

Some people care some people don't;

Some follow multiple fanworks which contradict each others, but each one is in it's own universe, but for whatever reason it's important to them that they individual works don't contradict the canon.

 

If one is fine with having their stuff as not-canon; then why would you be trying to make it canon?

Frankly IDK, & I've not bothered to read the rest of your post as I'm sick of seeing that condescending opinion, so by all means ignore this as well if it so bothers you.

Edited by Iblis
  • Upvote 2

~ Sophistry: A way to be antidisuncorrect. ~


 


 


In a decade you might convince maybe a small tribe of people.


In a decade you might also conquer one million km2 of land,


& in over a thousand years you might have over a billion followers.


 


I like building things. Please don't break the big ones.


& evidential philosophies that dare to extrapolate beyond


an individual's direct experience aren't easily built.

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All the Toa Mangai except for Tuyet are all dead, (though Lhikan is revived he isn't exactly a Toa) so if you want to make a canon portrayal of these Toa, make a disintegrated corpse or something.


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"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 4: Never Trust a Snake

"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 44: Corridor of Elders

Like, Comment, And Subscribe for Nintendo Content - NinBoidoh

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All the Toa Mangai except for Tuyet are all dead, (though Lhikan is revived he isn't exactly a Toa) so if you want to make a canon portrayal of these Toa, make a disintegrated corpse or something.

 

You've missed the point. One could make a story or a MOC which contained some of those Toa, that wouldn't contradict canon. Canonising aspects of them could change such a story or MOC into an at-odds-with-canon one, which may not have an easy (&/or satisfying) fix for certain fanworks. Which some people don't like.

 

And offering a canon answer for such a minor point achieves what..?

Keeps the people happy that apparently really like things being canon?

Well it gives them an extra datum (or: 7/14/15 extra facts), but it makes entire stories less valid to some people.

Story is bigger than >20 facts; thus more harm is being acomplished than good.

  • Upvote 3

~ Sophistry: A way to be antidisuncorrect. ~


 


 


In a decade you might convince maybe a small tribe of people.


In a decade you might also conquer one million km2 of land,


& in over a thousand years you might have over a billion followers.


 


I like building things. Please don't break the big ones.


& evidential philosophies that dare to extrapolate beyond


an individual's direct experience aren't easily built.

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