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You have to make the original six gender-equal.


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Oh boy gender topic... Can we please keep it simple M/F? Lol.

Id have to go with Le and Ko as female, cuz Ice Queen stereotype, as well as the nature loving female stereotype as well. If we include the other elements, well I'd have to give it some thought.

I'm with ya'.

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I advise chilling out over the nonbinary thing. In this case, people have a right to their preferences regarding gender, and while some of us may prefer that non-binary characters not be in our favorite toy franchise, we don't have the right to shove that preference down anyone else's throats or tell them they can't have non-binary characters in their hypotheticals or headcanons. 

 

(Please, everyone, these people are very sensitive to how their preferences are viewed.) 

 

With that being said, I personally find it difficult to view any Bionicle characters as non-binary. All of their genders seem to be strongly developed in their own minds, and I find it difficult to imagine any of them having a different gender identity. Just me though. :shrugs:

 

 

 

 

Edit: Took out a word with some strong connotations (and denotation) just to be safe!

-Wind-

Edited by -Windrider-
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Oh boy gender topic... Can we please keep it simple M/F? Lol.

don't see why we should have to, when there's more genders than that.
Arc, I'm very... Simple, when it comes to gender. I know that theres male female, I recognize when people are trans and stuff, but I have NO clue what nonbinary means or why it would fit into this topic when the topic starter simple wanted to keep it male female, and make it more similar to the human pop.

 

Don't bother trying to explain to me what it is, as I am looking it up right now, but I still don't find it necessary in this type of topic. Also, stereotypes exist for a reason people, of course they aren't completely inclusive but they wouldn't be there if there wasn't some truth to it so I think it'd be okay if we all accepted that that's how most people will assign genders in this topic. If anyone disagree with this, and I'm sure at least 5 of you do, don't expect a response from me as this is my last post regarding this subject on this forum. I'll probably assign genders to the rest of the elements later, and that's about it. G'day.

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                      Archon                      


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"For one to truly feel alive, the person must kill oneself a little bit each and every day."


 


Check out my MOC, one of the new generation of Toa on Spherus Magna!


***Toa Kyraan***

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Oh boy gender topic... Can we please keep it simple M/F? Lol.

don't see why we should have to, when there's more genders than that.

 

 

How many genders are there? Do we have a list?

 

An infinite amount. It's a continuous spectrum.

 

The problem, though, is that we seem to be assuming that the BIONICLE universe works the same way ours does. What if their culture simply does not recognize the existence of more than two beyond the physical determination between male and female? Just a thought. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but it is a possibility. Toa are not humans, after all--they're artificial. Who's to say that gender works for them the same way it does for us? We don't know that. 

 

To better word the original question, which of the original six Toa would you rather have been commonly referred to as "he" or "she?" That's how I understand it, anyway. If not, then just go ahead and ignore this. :P It also keeps the discussion from getting too out of hand, as we saw in that one topic about the sound of Gali's voice in the animations.  :shrugs: Or maybe not. Perhaps I'm reading into that wrong. 

Edited by ~T1S~
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The problem, though, is that we seem to be assuming that the BIONICLE universe works the same way ours does. What if their culture simply does not recognize the existence of more than two beyond the physical determination between male and female? Just a thought. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but it is a possibility. Toa are not humans, after all--they're artificial. Who's to say that gender works for them the same way it does for us? We don't know that.

One of the great things about LEGO is that it encourages creativity. I think people can imagine the universe however they want, since it's not specifically described anywhere.

To better word the original question, which of the original six Toa would you rather have been commonly referred to as "he" or "she?" That's how I understand it, anyway. If not, then just go ahead and ignore this. :P It also keeps the discussion from getting too out of hand, as we saw in that one topic about the sound of Gali's voice in the animations.  :shrugs: Or maybe not. Perhaps I'm reading into that wrong.

Indeed, the original question asked things in a very specific manner, and that's fine. I just wanted to answer the question that was being asked since the member seemed a bit confused.
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Oh boy gender topic... Can we please keep it simple M/F? Lol.

don't see why we should have to, when there's more genders than that.

 

How many genders are there? Do we have a list?

 

A very nice person linked a list to me, which showed every gender which people on Tumblr marked as having identified with. It's not full accurate, and Poe's Law may apply (gendergender is in their, for reference), but meh. I'm not certain the rules for Imgur links, so I'll just copy the "A" list.

 

* Abimegender

* Adamasgender

* Adeptogender

* Aerogender

* Aesthergender

* Affectusgender

* Agender

* Agenderfluid

* Agenderflux

* Alexisgender

* Aliengender

* Aliusgender

* Amare- and -Amicagender

* Ambigender

* Ambonec

* Amorgender

* Androgyne

* Angeligender

* Angenital

 

Now, personally? I was raised to look at things from a scientific point of view, with biology of course taking precedence over behavioral studies. I don't consider gender a conscious choice, I consider it the result of the different brain patterns between men and women. Thus, you are either male or female. Suppose your brain structure doesn't match your body, though? Then you have a case of gender dysphoria, and mind over matter applies. Someone isn't a "transgendered woman", they're a woman, who just happens to have been born into a male body.

 

But then again, I've always found ways to make both "traditional" and "progressive" people mad at me. So I suppose this sort of view is only natural.*

 

Now, I digress, onto the original topic:

 

A super-powerful time-travelling force from the future is trying to make all franchises gender-equal (50% dudes, 50% dudettes).

Either willingly or out of reluctance, you are selected as their emissary for Bionicle, and tasked with making the original six gender-equal.

You have the freedom to choose which Toa you will pre-retcon as female (or male if you decide to pre-retcon Gali's gender, given that at least three Toa are female).

 

Which three would you have as gals, and which three would you have as guys?

 

(The Matoran and Turaga would reflect your change.)

 

---

 

I, personally, would pre-retcon Lewa and Pohatu as females. Lewa, because his free-spirited personality would also work well if he were a she. Pohatu to differentiate himself/herself from Onua even further.

 

Well, first off, I'd take as long as I possibly could to complete the task, so that I may learn the source of the beings power and claim it for myself, therefore creating world peace through the implementation of beautifully intertwined liberty and order.

 

But, in the meantime, I might as well have fun altering the timeline.

 

Now, Gali can remain female, because there's no sense fixing what isn't broken.

 

The others? An interesting ideal. The first thing I'd take into account is the moral message, and the development of characters. If we really want to create a balance, the most important thing to do is to keep a gender balance not between characters, but between characters who are meant to set an example. The three principal characters who undergo development are Tahu, Kopaka, and Lewa; Gali, Onua, and Pohatu honestly don't change nearly as much.

 

As it stands, we'll have an imbalance. Now, considering that Kopaka is basically deputy on the team, moving him into being a her could work. The personality would also work well enough with the shift, so there wouldn't be much difficulty. Lewa? I'm not so sure. I get the whole "Genki Girl" thing, but I'm not so sure about it myself. Doesn't really fit.

 

So, if we can't move over a developed character, we should at least move over a better role model, to maintain some balance. Between Onua and Pohatu, it depends on interpretation. But personally? I see Pohatu as the better option, especially in the light of expanded athletics programs for girls. Further, he contrasts more with Kopaka and Gali, which adds variety.

 

Therefore, the practical answer is:

 

Male: Tahu, Lewa, Onua

Female: Kopaka, Gali, Pohatu

 

Of course, there's even more to it then that. If we follow the rules of the topic, we wind up with:

 

Male: Vakama, Matau, Whenua

Female: Nuju, Nokama, Onewa

 

Male: Jaller, Kongu, Nuparu

Female: Matoro, Hahli, Hewkii

 

You'll note that the switch, for Hewkii, causes Macku/Hewkii to show support to the LGBT community some twelve years before Korrasami. It also positions Matoro, the primary focus character of the 2006-2007 storyline, as female. Seeing as Takua/Takanuva held that spot 2001-2003, and Vakama 2004-2005, that seems only fair to me.

 

Just one more thing:

 

I'd make Lewa and Kopaka female because Wairuha

[Please keep jokes appropriate for all ages here. -bones]

 

Personally though I could see any character being female. It would be interesting to see Tahu as a female and maybe Lewa too

 

I can predict what the joke here originally was, but I nevertheless wish to see it in it's original, unedited glory.

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor :flagusa:

 

* Yes, that was a pun. You're very clever.

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"I disapprove of what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."


- Evelyn Beatrice Hall (often attributed to Voltaire)

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A very nice person linked a list to me, which showed every gender which people on Tumblr marked as having identified with. It's not full accurate, and Poe's Law may apply (gendergender is in their, for reference), but meh. I'm not certain the rules for Imgur links, so I'll just copy the "A" list.

 

Well, that makes for an interesting read...

Edited by Sir Kohran
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Oh boy gender topic... Can we please keep it simple M/F? Lol.

don't see why we should have to, when there's more genders than that.

 

How many genders are there? Do we have a list?

 

A very nice person linked a list to me, which showed every gender which people on Tumblr marked as having identified with. It's not full accurate, and Poe's Law may apply (gendergender is in their, for reference), but meh. I'm not certain the rules for Imgur links, so I'll just copy the "A" list.

 

* Abimegender

* Adamasgender

* Adeptogender

* Aerogender

* Aesthergender

* Affectusgender

* Agender

* Agenderfluid

* Agenderflux

* Alexisgender

* Aliengender

* Aliusgender

* Amare- and -Amicagender

* Ambigender

* Ambonec

* Amorgender

* Androgyne

* Angeligender

* Angenital

 

Now, personally? I was raised to look at things from a scientific point of view, with biology of course taking precedence over behavioral studies. I don't consider gender a conscious choice, I consider it the result of the different brain patterns between men and women. Thus, you are either male or female. Suppose your brain structure doesn't match your body, though? Then you have a case of gender dysphoria, and mind over matter applies. Someone isn't a "transgendered woman", they're a woman, who just happens to have been born into a male body.

 

But then again, I've always found ways to make both "traditional" and "progressive" people mad at me. So I suppose this sort of view is only natural.*

 

Now, I digress, onto the original topic:

 

A super-powerful time-travelling force from the future is trying to make all franchises gender-equal (50% dudes, 50% dudettes).

Either willingly or out of reluctance, you are selected as their emissary for Bionicle, and tasked with making the original six gender-equal.

You have the freedom to choose which Toa you will pre-retcon as female (or male if you decide to pre-retcon Gali's gender, given that at least three Toa are female).

 

Which three would you have as gals, and which three would you have as guys?

 

(The Matoran and Turaga would reflect your change.)

 

---

 

I, personally, would pre-retcon Lewa and Pohatu as females. Lewa, because his free-spirited personality would also work well if he were a she. Pohatu to differentiate himself/herself from Onua even further.

 

Well, first off, I'd take as long as I possibly could to complete the task, so that I may learn the source of the beings power and claim it for myself, therefore creating world peace through the implementation of beautifully intertwined liberty and order.

 

But, in the meantime, I might as well have fun altering the timeline.

 

Now, Gali can remain female, because there's no sense fixing what isn't broken.

 

The others? An interesting ideal. The first thing I'd take into account is the moral message, and the development of characters. If we really want to create a balance, the most important thing to do is to keep a gender balance not between characters, but between characters who are meant to set an example. The three principal characters who undergo development are Tahu, Kopaka, and Lewa; Gali, Onua, and Pohatu honestly don't change nearly as much.

 

As it stands, we'll have an imbalance. Now, considering that Kopaka is basically deputy on the team, moving him into being a her could work. The personality would also work well enough with the shift, so there wouldn't be much difficulty. Lewa? I'm not so sure. I get the whole "Genki Girl" thing, but I'm not so sure about it myself. Doesn't really fit.

 

So, if we can't move over a developed character, we should at least move over a better role model, to maintain some balance. Between Onua and Pohatu, it depends on interpretation. But personally? I see Pohatu as the better option, especially in the light of expanded athletics programs for girls. Further, he contrasts more with Kopaka and Gali, which adds variety.

 

Therefore, the practical answer is:

 

Male: Tahu, Lewa, Onua

Female: Kopaka, Gali, Pohatu

 

Of course, there's even more to it then that. If we follow the rules of the topic, we wind up with:

 

Male: Vakama, Matau, Whenua

Female: Nuju, Nokama, Onewa

 

Male: Jaller, Kongu, Nuparu

Female: Matoro, Hahli, Hewkii

 

You'll note that the switch, for Hewkii, causes Macku/Hewkii to show support to the LGBT community some twelve years before Korrasami. It also positions Matoro, the primary focus character of the 2006-2007 storyline, as female. Seeing as Takua/Takanuva held that spot 2001-2003, and Vakama 2004-2005, that seems only fair to me.

 

Just one more thing:

 

I'd make Lewa and Kopaka female because Wairuha

[Please keep jokes appropriate for all ages here. -bones]

 

Personally though I could see any character being female. It would be interesting to see Tahu as a female and maybe Lewa too

 

I can predict what the joke here originally was, but I nevertheless wish to see it in it's original, unedited glory.

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor :flagusa:

 

* Yes, that was a pun. You're very clever.

 

It really wasn't even that bad, Certainly wasn't explicit or anything, but it a certain mod(maybe multiple) deems it inappropriate Im not going to sit here and argue with them. It's sort of there site after all.

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Oh, alright, I guess we'll have to have 19 toa per team to make sure we cover everyone...

And that's only for A.

If every letter has 19 different genders and every gender has to be covered, then each Toa team will need to have at least 494 members.

Perhaps the best reason to stick to male/female. Political correctness can go too far, yeah?

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:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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If anyone wants to assign genders to the rest of the elements, here's what I'd have...

 

Male: Fire, Stone, Iron, Gravity, Ice, Air, Lightning

 

Female: Plasma, Water, Plantlife, Magnestism, Sonic, Earth, Psionics

 

Both: Light, Shadow

 

I have reasoning for all of them, but too lazy to type so I'll edit later. :P

                      Archon                      


***


"For one to truly feel alive, the person must kill oneself a little bit each and every day."


 


Check out my MOC, one of the new generation of Toa on Spherus Magna!


***Toa Kyraan***

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Disregarding the utter bunk a lot of people like to post about the binary being "scientifically accurate" (seriously, take a biology course? A psych class?)

- Gali/Lewa/Kopaka as female
- Tahu/Pohatu as nonbinary individuals
- Onua can stay male I guess, though if I had my way Onua'd simply be female and we'd have a year of no male sets or characters to start balancing out the massive problem that existed in the first series.

 

I'm not even going to hear the "oh wah, they're robots no need for genders anyway!" because that's a terribly written cop out argument meant to do little more than say "it's either my way or no way." 

 

(Also, yes, it's totally Politically Correctness that makes people like to identify with and relate with characters in a franchise they enjoy, no other reason at all lol)

Edited by Kitania
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Here's my personal list:

Tahu: female. I think Tahu's a really great personification of the "fiery volcano goddess" trope, which isn't overused enough to justify avoiding it.

Gali: female. She was the original female Bionicle character, I see no point in making any sort of change.

Lewa: male. No real justification, mainly to make the numbers work.

Kopaka: male. See below.

Pohatu: male. Basically because Pohatu/Kopaka is the closest Toa Mata relationship to what could be called romance, and I don't want upset shippers coming after me.

Onua: female. Also for a little-used trope, this time the "powerful earth goddess."

Takanuva: nonbinary. I see how it could seem clichéd, but it makes extra sense given that they were the first of their kind.

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( The bunny slippers hiss and slither into the shadows. ) -Takuaka: Toa of Time

What if the Toa you know best were not destined to be? Interchange: The epic begins

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Given Bionicle's target audience, gender equality isn't entirely necessary, although I would've preferred that two out of six of the Toa be female from the start for my own reasons.

 

If they had created an entirely new Toa Team for the reboot, then I'd want a 1:1 gender ratio. (Although I wouldn't complain about a 1:5 ratio like all you feminists are) But if were being honest, I couldn't imagine any of the old Toa as having a different gender than they have always had. I know a lot of people are saying Kopaka and Lewa would easily fit as females, but I just couldn't imagine either of them as having a different gender. Lewa's personality makes it kinda easier, (don't take that the wrong way) but still difficult even if I put my mind to it. Although it's possible with Lewa, there's no way I could imagine Kopaka as a woman.

 

But here's my take on all of this: there should have been seven Toa; three gals and four guys. That would've worked perfectly in my opinion. I know that's not exact equality, but it's not like they'd put four gals and three guys as the main characters in a media/toy line directed towards adolescent boys, but three out of seven is enough for people to stop complaining. MOST people...

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MetaKnight.gif  Stay vigilant, my friends. MetaKnight.gif

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Since I enjoy commentary, I might as well make notes on some of the other posts in the topic:

 

Couldn't care less about the genders personally, so long as the characters are still well-written and personalities and character relationships are engaging enough to make the plot an enjoyable experience. There's a weird emphasis on gender > personality here.

But if I was looking at ways to change things around, then I can think of two I'd go for. I actually think Onua and Tahu would make for good female characters, just as they make for good male characters. The core dynamics of their personalities wouldn't change because...well, why would they? Onua would stay the wise-headed thinker of the group, and Tahu would be the hot-headed leader. Same old, same old.

 

The sad part, for me at least, is that I even understand why. I also think it's stupid, but that's just me. Point is, I agree; a character's personality and writing are more important than their gender. It's the primary rule I've always followed, both when writing male and female characters.

 

Though I do, admittedly, wind up making a lot of female medics. I suppose I've always been fond of the Florence Nightingale archetype.

 

If it had-to-be had-to-be, I'd choose Lewa and Onua. 

 

That's because it would be hard to write Kopaka or Tahu as a girl without being negatively stereotypical. The hot-headed girl and the ice queen have been so overdone. Pohatu really needs to be a guy. 

 

As for Lewa, the character wouldn't have to change too much - the happy-go-lucky gal is another overdone trope, but the switch would be less jarring. As for Onua, it's an incredibly rare opportunity to write an amazing female character who would be more accurate to real life than a lot of other fiction. I really like the "old wise guy" trope, but if we have to do this, writing a wise and sensible female that isn't like Kopaka would be a refreshing change. Might as well go for maximum fun. (Plus also we have the girlfriends rescuing each other - +400 - instead of the guy rescuing the girl for the 4000th time again.  :P)

 

I still think such a change would probably take away from the story, given that Onua is different from Gandalf and is unique in a lot of ways that his gender highlights better, and happy-go-lucky guys do exist, but you're posing a hypothetical, and that is my answer. 

 

Good explanation with regards to your reasoning. I do have to ask, though, what contributes so much to the manliness to Pohatu, in your eyes? :P

 

If anyone wants to assign genders to the rest of the elements, here's what I'd have...

Male: Fire, Stone, Iron, Gravity, Ice, Air, Lightning

Female: Plasma, Water, Plantlife, Magnestism, Sonic, Earth, Psionics

Both: Light, Shadow

I have reasoning for all of them, but too lazy to type so I'll edit later. :P

 

Nice idea. I'd say:

 

Male: Air, Fire, Earth, Iron, Gravity, Plasma, "Gotta Go Fast"

Female: Water, Ice, Stone, Psionics, Lightning, Plant Life, Magnetism

Mixed Distribution: Light, Shadow

 

Of course, I myself tend to prefer mixed distribution for all tribes. But seeing as the topic is about only modifying the rulings on each, then meh.

 

Reasoning: No reason to change Lightning, Iron, or "Gotta Go Fast" so far as I can see; they're well enough as they are, and already have characters established within those elements. Psionics, I dunno; if we had one more element, I'd make that one mixed, just to cut out that explanation for Orde being decidedly not female (then again, nobody's ever claimed the Great Beings aren't sexist). In any case, I figured Plant Life, because Poison Ivy reasons, and Magnetism, because Pyrrha Nikos reasons, would be the best swaps.

 

Here's my personal list:
Tahu: female. I think Tahu's a really great personification of the "fiery volcano goddess" trope, which isn't overused enough to justify avoiding it.
Gali: female. She was the original female Bionicle character, I see no point in making any sort of change.
Lewa: male. No real justification, mainly to make the numbers work.
Kopaka: male. See below.
Pohatu: male. Basically because Pohatu/Kopaka is the closest Toa Mata relationship to what could be called romance, and I don't want upset shippers coming after me.
Onua: female. Also for a little-used trope, this time the "powerful earth goddess."
Takanuva: nonbinary. I see how it could seem clichéd, but it makes extra sense given that they were the first of their kind.

 

Meh, they always struck me as platonic. I could picture those two and Onua going down to a bar on Friday night, after all the Rahi were dealt with. Tahu used to come, of course, but after that last incident with the wine, he stopped being invited. Onua usually has to leave early, of course, because somehow Lewa wound up blacked out somewhere in the mountains with a Kakama and four Gukko. Gali's probably out helping cats out of trees or something, and Tahu is still on hold after falling for Takanuva's prank telemarketer.

 

It all works out well.

 

Disregarding the utter bunk a lot of people like to post about the binary being "scientifically accurate" (seriously, take a biology course? A psych class?)

- Gali/Lewa/Kopaka as female
- Tahu/Pohatu as nonbinary individuals
- Onua can stay male I guess, though if I had my way Onua'd simply be female and we'd have a year of no male sets or characters to start balancing out the massive problem that existed in the first series.

 

I'm not even going to hear the "oh wah, they're robots no need for genders anyway!" because that's a terribly written cop out argument meant to do little more than say "it's either my way or no way." 

 

(Also, yes, it's totally Politically Correctness that makes people like to identify with and relate with characters in a franchise they enjoy, no other reason at all lol)

 

You make a good point about giving children a character they can identify with, though from my personal experience, I'd say that might be a bit of a stretch. Both while younger, and into the present, I've been able to identify with both male and female characters. After all, basic rules of writing dictate that a character is better defined by their personality than any other measure. This topic, and the fact that so many people have differing views on which characters "fit" each gender, proves that better than anything else.

 

(Also, removing all male characters seems more like creating a new problem than solving one, so you have me stumped their.)

 

---

 

I should note that if anyone in this topic wishes to discuss scientific accuracy, or any other issues which have been brought up, I'm always happy to discuss off-topic matters over PM. No sense arguing them here, though.

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor :flagusa:

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"I disapprove of what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."


- Evelyn Beatrice Hall (often attributed to Voltaire)

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There WERE seven Toa, unless you've been under a rock for 13 years.

 

Takanuva's not in the reboot. (as far as we know) And don't tell me that kid-villager in the animations is Takua. And even if he is, that doesn't confirm Takanuva's return.

 

And I meant seven Toa to start with. Takanuva didn't appear until three years after.

Edited by The Meta Knight

MetaKnight.gif  Stay vigilant, my friends. MetaKnight.gif

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I do have to ask, though, what contributes so much to the manliness to Pohatu, in your eyes? :P

I said that Pohatu needs to be a guy, not that he is in possession of a higher quality of masculinity than his peers. Why did I say that?

 

1) If you make Pohatu a female, the resulting personality would be very close to Gali. Gali is a bit more stubborn than Pohatu, and a bit more communicative/assertive when dealing with people. But you'll recall that Pohatu is also very assertive and stubborn, especially with Kopaka. It would be difficult to make him female without enhancing those qualities just a touch - and you would end up with two Galis.

 

It also propagates the illusion that only girls can communicate and deal with people effectively (or want to, haha). By having Pohatu (the nice guy who deals with people and dashes in to save his village and help Matoran with a caring spirit) and the more blunt and candid insights of Gali, it shows that both genders can be amicable in their own different ways. Taking that away is bad. 

 

2) The team dynamic. With three girls and three guys, those three are going to be compared and play off of each other. Tahu and Kopaka are both assertive personalities, and as I've mentioned for other reasons, they both need to be male. They also need a guy - someone they can relate to, who isn't a girl - to stand with them and between them. Onua is too passive and would look ineffective in trying to curb the inevitable conflict, and Lewa would make fun of it and make the conflict worse. Pohatu is perfect for the role. Not only is he assertive enough to get though to even Kopaka, his personality/character is something both of those Toa will respect. 

 

So yeah, he's a guy. I could cite a bunch of other lame reasons - which is probably what you were expecting :P - but you could make a very good case for any of them (except Gali, perhaps) to be a guy, because they are all guys. :P In any case, you were asking for the intent behind my statement, and there you have it.  

 

Meh, they always struck me as platonic. I could picture those two and Onua going down to a bar on Friday night, after all the Rahi were dealt with. Tahu used to come, of course, but after that last incident with the wine, he stopped being invited. Onua usually has to leave early, of course, because somehow Lewa wound up blacked out somewhere in the mountains with a Kakama and four Gukko. Gali's probably out helping cats out of trees or something, and Tahu is still on hold after falling for Takanuva's prank telemarketer.

 

It all works out well.

Lol.

 

Really, in my mind, there is an unspoken rule - when in doubt, assume the platonic explanation. Even if the relation between the two of them becomes romantic later, that doesn't mean that the platonic explanation for a certain thing actually is wrong. It's my opinion that people are actually way more platonic than media would have us believe, though, so maybe that colors the picture. 

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Forgive me for my ignorance everybody but why is there a need to change an established character's gender? I've grown up with these characters and I couldn't imagine any of them having such a drastic change. Not to mention the confusion it would cause in new and old fans alike.

 

I see it as a thought experiment, really.

 

I said that Pohatu needs to be a guy, not that he is in possession of a higher quality of masculinity than his peers. Why did I say that?

 

1) If you make Pohatu a female, the resulting personality would be very close to Gali. Gali is a bit more stubborn than Pohatu, and a bit more communicative/assertive when dealing with people. But you'll recall that Pohatu is also very assertive and stubborn, especially with Kopaka. It would be difficult to make him female without enhancing those qualities just a touch - and you would end up with two Galis.

 

It also propagates the illusion that only girls can communicate and deal with people effectively (or want to, haha). By having Pohatu (the nice guy who deals with people and dashes in to save his village and help Matoran with a caring spirit) and the more blunt and candid insights of Gali, it shows that both genders can be amicable in their own different ways. Taking that away is bad. 

 

2) The team dynamic. With three girls and three guys, those three are going to be compared and play off of each other. Tahu and Kopaka are both assertive personalities, and as I've mentioned for other reasons, they both need to be male. They also need a guy - someone they can relate to, who isn't a girl - to stand with them and between them. Onua is too passive and would look ineffective in trying to curb the inevitable conflict, and Lewa would make fun of it and make the conflict worse. Pohatu is perfect for the role. Not only is he assertive enough to get though to even Kopaka, his personality/character is something both of those Toa will respect. 

 

So yeah, he's a guy. I could cite a bunch of other lame reasons - which is probably what you were expecting :P - but you could make a very good case for any of them (except Gali, perhaps) to be a guy, because they are all guys. :P In any case, you were asking for the intent behind my statement, and there you have it.  

 

Heh, I'm not expecting anything. :P Since you clearly put some thought into it, I wanted to see what was differing in your thoughts; after all, I had found myself conflicted over Pohatu and Onua, so finding a strong affirmative to the opposite choice seemed like an interesting thing to bring up. Amusingly, we're both trying to do the same thing; balancing factors out. It mostly just differs in what we're trying to balance out; communication and the like, versus overall role and "role model" aspect. Both work, and again, contribute to the whole "thought experiment" thing.

 

Honestly, it's more interesting to see what different people are looking for. I've noted some folk seem to care primarily about diversity, which is great. Others are looking for ways to reinterpret the story. As mentioned, I myself would much rather set role models; as Kitania put it, someone to relate to. While gender may be a very small part of that - hence why I have no problem with the original five & one for the main cast - my marketing point of view can't help but be directed. Sucks. :P

 

Lol.

 

Really, in my mind, there is an unspoken rule - when in doubt, assume the platonic explanation. Even if the relation between the two of them becomes romantic later, that doesn't mean that the platonic explanation for a certain thing actually is wrong. It's my opinion that people are actually way more platonic than media would have us believe, though, so maybe that colors the picture. 

 

 

I blame Titanic.

 

No, not the famous one. The animated one.

 

The other animated one. With the octopus, and the characters getting together without ever meeting each others.

 

If that's enough to spark a love story, who knows what a month long quest could bring?

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor :flagusa:

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I do have to ask, though, what contributes so much to the manliness to Pohatu, in your eyes? :P

I said that Pohatu needs to be a guy, not that he is in possession of a higher quality of masculinity than his peers. Why did I say that?

 

1) If you make Pohatu a female, the resulting personality would be very close to Gali. Gali is a bit more stubborn than Pohatu, and a bit more communicative/assertive when dealing with people. But you'll recall that Pohatu is also very assertive and stubborn, especially with Kopaka. It would be difficult to make him female without enhancing those qualities just a touch - and you would end up with two Galis.

I saw Pohatu as pretty unique in the Toa Mata; he was a perpetual optimist who tried to stick with others through thick and thin. Even when he was being stubborn with Kopaka, it was because he just wanted to help. He was also playful; where every other Toa was serious and imposing in the initial CGI animations, Pohatu knocked down an enormous rock structure for fun and then moonwalked away. 

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It mostly just differs in what we're trying to balance out; communication and the like, versus overall role and "role model" aspect. Both work, and again, contribute to the whole "thought experiment" thing.

 

As mentioned, I myself would much rather set role models; as Kitania put it, someone to relate to. While gender may be a very small part of that - hence why I have no problem with the original five & one for the main cast - my marketing point of view can't help but be directed. Sucks. :P

To be fair, I have no problem with the 5:1 ratio either, really. I'm just participating in the thought experiment for the fun of it. :shrugs:

 

I don't really understand the whole "role model" concept. While I've wanted certain things and pieces of my life to improve, I never really thought that being someone else would get me them. In short, I've never really wanted to be anyone but myself - I can change myself to fit what I want. I've always had an autonomous way of thinking. The best I can muster up is that I understand that many people don't think that way and need that sort of role model figure. But as for why the concept exists or how it works, I'm at a loss. There's no way I could rearrange the Toa that way.

 

And as for how female Pohatu could be a positive role model for girls everywhere, I'm honestly at a loss. :shrugs:

 

 

Lol.

 

Really, in my mind, there is an unspoken rule - when in doubt, assume the platonic explanation. Even if the relation between the two of them becomes romantic later, that doesn't mean that the platonic explanation for a certain thing actually is wrong. It's my opinion that people are actually way more platonic than media would have us believe, though, so maybe that colors the picture.

 

 

I blame Titanic.

 

No, not the famous one. The animated one.

 

The other animated one. With the octopus, and the characters getting together without ever meeting each others.

 

If that's enough to spark a love story, who knows what a month long quest could bring?

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor :flagusa:

 

I dislike those kinds of stories, because they always are incredibly unrealistic.

 

I saw Pohatu as pretty unique in the Toa Mata; he was a perpetual optimist who tried to stick with others through thick and thin. Even when he was being stubborn with Kopaka, it was because he just wanted to help. He was also playful; where every other Toa was serious and imposing in the initial CGI animations, Pohatu knocked down an enormous rock structure for fun and then moonwalked away. 

Gali is rather famous for trumpeting unity, and also trying to help the team while being stubborn. 

 

There's probably some differences that my brain is skipping over to make its case, but I still think if you gender-flipped Pohatu, the character would be similar to Gali. Even if Pohatu-she was more playful, that would paint Gali as a tough and sensible type who needs to lighten up instead of the wise and sensible character that keeps the boys from splitting up, again

 

* * *

 

One idea I think might be better (:shrugs:), is that instead of gender-flipping characters, add four other female characters to the team. That would leave you with ten Toa instead of six, and tell a way different story - but if we are aiming for feministic goals as part of a hypothetical, that definitely could be a better tale - four girls, developed as unique characters, instead of flipping genders of the mains, annoying a large chunk of the fanbase, and leaving a couple of half-way-developed as another gender upside down. 

 

It could run into the "too many characters" problem, but I think that problem is less than the benefits I mentioned. :shrugs:

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You make a good point about giving children a character they can identify with, though from my personal experience, I'd say that might be a bit of a stretch. Both while younger, and into the present, I've been able to identify with both male and female characters. After all, basic rules of writing dictate that a character is better defined by their personality than any other measure. This topic, and the fact that so many people have differing views on which characters "fit" each gender, proves that better than anything else.

 

(Also, removing all male characters seems more like creating a new problem than solving one, so you have me stumped their.)

It's not personal experience that matters here. There simply isn't a lot of media where a lot of kids of varying genders, expressions thereof, and so forth are represented in. Removing people from existing in media makes it seem like such people don't exist in the first place, effectively erasing their importance in the eyes of the majority and, when you realize you aren't represented at all in what you enjoy, it can give a blow to a lot of kids' self confidence and sense of self-worth. Just because you didn't experience that doesn't mean people do not, it's fallacious to even present the argument.

 

And yes, characters should be defined by who they are, but when every "defined" character is a male there is a bit of a problem there. Since you're effectively removing women and other genders from the equation entirely, when doing so does nothing other than ostracize them from the franchise. Why not make some of those male characters of other genders if, to you, gender is merely an unimportant footnote? Why argue against it? Is there something that needs protecting? Because there isn't.

 

And no, removing all the male characters would not create a new problem synonymous with the old. Women and other gender expressions are a massive minority in media, men take the spotlight most of the time and across most acclaimed works. Most summer blockbusters are full of testosterone, many books have nearly full male casts (Lord of the Rings, staring really hard at you).

 

Giving a handful of candies to the person with a third of what the person next to them has does not jeopardize the amount of candies that other person already has. It just puts both of them on a more even scale.

 

Unless, of course, you see what's wrong with skewed gender ratios and representation and that's why you brought up the point, since it's a massive issue in the old series and so far looking to continue in the new as far as main characters are concerned.

 

(I'll also reiterate: any reinforcement of a binary is bunk science)

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Meh, they always struck me as platonic. I could picture those two and Onua going down to a bar on Friday night, after all the Rahi were dealt with. Tahu used to come, of course, but after that last incident with the wine, he stopped being invited. Onua usually has to leave early, of course, because somehow Lewa wound up blacked out somewhere in the mountains with a Kakama and four Gukko. Gali's probably out helping cats out of trees or something, and Tahu is still on hold after falling for Takanuva's prank telemarketer.

This is so hilarious. Just to clarify I do see all the Toa Mata as platonic, I was just saying I consider Kopaka/Pohatu the most "shippable" pair.

( The bunny slippers hiss and slither into the shadows. ) -Takuaka: Toa of Time

What if the Toa you know best were not destined to be? Interchange: The epic begins

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If anyone wants to assign genders to the rest of the elements, here's what I'd have...

 

Male: Fire, Stone, Iron, Gravity, Ice, Air, Lightning

 

Female: Plasma, Water, Plantlife, Magnestism, Sonic, Earth, Psionics

 

Both: Light, Shadow

 

I have reasoning for all of them, but too lazy to type so I'll edit later. :P

Why not both for each?

TOO LATE.

IT WAS ALWAYS TOO LATE.

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Euugh... Bionicle is the last place I want to discuss idealogies. I have a solution:

 

First, leave the original characters alone. That is, Tahu, Kopaka, Gali, Lewa, Onua, and Pohatu remain the exact same gender as they were before. That means that fans of any of these characters that like them for the gender they were can remain happy. No point in retconning some guy's favorite character into a different gender. 

 

Then introduce more female characters. So introduce a steady cast of female characters to balance out the cast. We can have female heroes with the power of fire, ice, earth, ect, ect, ect...and play around with the roster. 

 

 Kitania: You're saying that because the general media is heavily geared towards males, that in turn favors an argument that BIONICLE should be solely geared towards females? Isn't that just refuting an extreme with another? If you want to promote a healthy diet in the midst of a nation full of obese people, the solution is not to starve yourself to skin and bones. Shouldn't we, if we were truly interested in promoting equality between the genders, promote a cast of both females and males that both play strong roles to the plot. I dunno, the whole concept of Bionicle being a counter-balance to the rest of the media seems ridiculous to me. 

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If anyone wants to assign genders to the rest of the elements, here's what I'd have...

 

Male: Fire, Stone, Iron, Gravity, Ice, Air, Lightning

 

Female: Plasma, Water, Plantlife, Magnestism, Sonic, Earth, Psionics

 

Both: Light, Shadow

 

I have reasoning for all of them, but too lazy to type so I'll edit later. :P

Why not both for each?
The topic states to divide up the tribes, hence that is what I did. Light/Shadow are kept bi-gender in my book since they appear that way in story, and for some reason that makes sense to me as we have seen characters of both primary genders in those tribes (if you can call Shadow Matoran a tribe lol). I'd obviously prefer it mixed, with dominances (70/30), and keep my choices gender dominant as stated above.

                      Archon                      


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"For one to truly feel alive, the person must kill oneself a little bit each and every day."


 


Check out my MOC, one of the new generation of Toa on Spherus Magna!


***Toa Kyraan***

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I forgot to explicitly add that in this thought experiment, Bionicle (2001-2010) hasn't been released yet, thus the future fanbase wouldn't be upset about a genderswap because they never knew of a Tahu/Kopaka/Onua/Pohatu/Lewa/Gali pre-genderswap. You are pre-retconning the characters.

 

Also, I change my mind. Instead of Lewa and Pohatu, Lewa and Onua.

 

Onua because Earth would be an interesting subversion as female. Mining is traditionaly a masculine/male activity, so it would be interesting to see that subverted.

 

Lewa as a free-spirited nature-loving female is a bit of an overused trope, but Onua would provide contrast.

 

So you've got Onua who's (somewhat) masculine, Lewa who's (somewhat) feminine, and Gali who is a balance.

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To be fair, I have no problem with the 5:1 ratio either, really. I'm just participating in the thought experiment for the fun of it. :shrugs:

 

I don't really understand the whole "role model" concept. While I've wanted certain things and pieces of my life to improve, I never really thought that being someone else would get me them. In short, I've never really wanted to be anyone but myself - I can change myself to fit what I want. I've always had an autonomous way of thinking. The best I can muster up is that I understand that many people don't think that way and need that sort of role model figure. But as for why the concept exists or how it works, I'm at a loss. There's no way I could rearrange the Toa that way.

 

And as for how female Pohatu could be a positive role model for girls everywhere, I'm honestly at a loss. :shrugs:

 

I can understand that. While I never had it quite so bad - I did have people I looked up to, though more for specific traits than general ones - I do remember "who's your hero?" days in school often having me baffled. Heck, they still do; usually I just choose a military general like Patton or Lee, or, if I'm feeling like antagonizing someone, go with Julius Caesar.

 

From a marketing point of view: he's an athlete. You know how there's the big push to show women doctors and scientists in the media, to advertise STEM careers? It's the same principal, applied in a different direction. Is it always completely sensible? No, not really. But meh.

 

It's not personal experience that matters here. There simply isn't a lot of media where a lot of kids of varying genders, expressions thereof, and so forth are represented in. Removing people from existing in media makes it seem like such people don't exist in the first place, effectively erasing their importance in the eyes of the majority and, when you realize you aren't represented at all in what you enjoy, it can give a blow to a lot of kids' self confidence and sense of self-worth. Just because you didn't experience that doesn't mean people do not, it's fallacious to even present the argument.

 

And yes, characters should be defined by who they are, but when every "defined" character is a male there is a bit of a problem there. Since you're effectively removing women and other genders from the equation entirely, when doing so does nothing other than ostracize them from the franchise. Why not make some of those male characters of other genders if, to you, gender is merely an unimportant footnote? Why argue against it? Is there something that needs protecting? Because there isn't.

 

And no, removing all the male characters would not create a new problem synonymous with the old. Women and other gender expressions are a massive minority in media, men take the spotlight most of the time and across most acclaimed works. Most summer blockbusters are full of testosterone, many books have nearly full male casts (Lord of the Rings, staring really hard at you).

 

Giving a handful of candies to the person with a third of what the person next to them has does not jeopardize the amount of candies that other person already has. It just puts both of them on a more even scale.

 

Unless, of course, you see what's wrong with skewed gender ratios and representation and that's why you brought up the point, since it's a massive issue in the old series and so far looking to continue in the new as far as main characters are concerned.

 

(I'll also reiterate: any reinforcement of a binary is bunk science)

 

Kitania, have you considered that this lack of representation in the media stems from a lack of realization in real life? Just ask yourself: do most movies, television shows, and so forth have casts of greater than one hundred primary characters? Do most of these series make a big deal about a characters gender? Is it entirely possible that, in cases where there are characters present, some of them may actually identify themselves as non-binary, but never say it because it has no impact on the plot?

 

People are not defined by their gender, they are defined by who they are as a person. It's why you almost never see mentions to it, save when a political statement is intended, such as may be seen in Indie films. And as for characters falling outside the norm, remember that, out in the real world, nobody cares what gender you are, and a small percentile consider themselves to be anything other than male or female.

 

 

Who do you believe media is meant to represent? Should it represent everyone? Ideally, yes; in practice, doing so would be impossible. Instead, it's meant to tell the story, with majority representation typically being easier and financially safer for the producers. Once more, when you look to comparatively low-risk Indie projects, you do see those characters. So, if you want to see representation, wouldn't it be great to get involved with, or invest into, these projects?

 

You propose we change media, right? Then why quote examples of older material? Lord of the Rings has been around for multiples of time greater than either you or I have been alive, so there's no sense in trying to change it. Topics like this, where discuss "what if?" are interesting, but actually proposing a complete shift? I disagree.

 

Let me ask you something: have you noticed how many people on this topic have tried avoiding the "stereotypes" for characters? Notice also that nobody concerns themselves with women? That's the reason most characters are male: because you can do whatever you want with a male character, and you won't be called out on it. People don't care when a male character is a lecher, a murderer, or mentally tortured; they don't care when they're beaten, put down out work, or when they're in an abuse relationship. But what if a woman underwent the same experiences? More often than not, critics, particularly feminist ones, immediately proclaim it to be a result of their gender, rather than their character.

 

For instance, the one that keeps getting brought up: Lewa and Onua. Multiple posters have shied from Lewa being a woman, to avoid the "damsel in distress" trope. But if he's a male, there's no problem. Or, looking to canon, did you see a female Piraka or Barraki? And when the Roodaka set came out, what detail did everyone immediately home in on? How much of the issue with gender representation, then, is the result of the audience, rather than the creators?

 

Outside of Bionicle, I also remember another incident, where change did occur. Are you familiar with My Friend Flicka? The horse book? If you'd read it, you'd know it's about a boy and his horse. If you only watch the 2006 movie, however, you'd never know that; the main character is instead a girl. Why? Because the producers and directors decided that a boy liking a horse wouldn't have sold as well, and frankly, they were probably right. The change being made is fine, but it serves to illustrate my point: that certain

 

To answer your final point: I see no issue with the original gender ratio, because I do not believe it impacts the plot. Bionicle is dead; gone; over. Now it's restarting, and in two-eight years time, it will once more be dead; gone; over. It's a toyline, directed to children, who could care less about characters genders; many, being kids, will even get them wrong, as this topic and the "Headcanon" one, have demonstrated.

 

So some people already had some of the candy? That's lovely, but it's also in the past. Should our job really be to create reparations for the past, rather than create new material for the future? No - it should be create something new, and attempting to learn from the past, rather than negate it. Notice how many movies nowadays are remakes, reboots, or sequels. What we need isn't someone to change the gender dynamics of existing series, it's someone willing to create new IP which reflects what they wish to see. You want to see a summer action movie with an all female cast? Then go to a film school, get a degree in screenwriting, write a screenplay, and make George Lucas proud with your persistence in getting it approved. Will it be hard work? Yes! But if it's what you care about, then do something about it; try to make the world improve. Shouldn't that be everyone's goal?

 

On a final note, with regards to your opening comment, there are a lot of things which can target a kid's self-confidence, or their self-worth. There are also much worse blows than that which one can undergo. Do not presume that anyone is living life on easy mode, or has failed to endure the same or worse than yourself. But we're not here to score for the Oppression Olympics; the point is, you have to live through it, and become stronger as a result. You also have to keep looking forward.

 

... heh. Look at me, trying not to de-rail, and here I am shooting past state lines. :P I still won't publicly open the can of worms that is scientific discussion, but the offer of course still stands from before. To be honest, I should probably just wipe the above wall of text and start over, but I'm in an uncharacteristically happy mood this morning, so I figure I'll leave it up. Good moral message for the kids, you know?

 

This is so hilarious. Just to clarify I do see all the Toa Mata as platonic, I was just saying I consider Kopaka/Pohatu the most "shippable" pair.

 

They certainly have more chemistry than a lot of the characters, so yeah. Though HewkiixMacku OTP, ja?

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor :flagusa:

 

When is majhost going back up? I want my kitty...

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Representation is hugely important on a number of levels. It's hard to see if you're in a position of privilege because almost every piece of media is aimed at you. I've only recently (as in the past few years) just noticed how much media is skewed towards certain demographics.
 
Companies also want to make money, and they make more money by creating and marketing characters that the audience can relate to. In doing so, they tend to focus on the demographics which make up their target audience.
 
The end result of these factors is that underprivileged groups get very little representation, because companies are inherently fearful that the creation of, say, a canonically non-binary character will cut into their profits.
 
This is a perfectly valid explanation for what's going on. It is not, however, a valid justification for what's going on.
 
Society, like the people who make it up, is vast and complicated and anyone who tries to sell you on a black-and-white us-vs.-them mentality is not steering you in the right direction. Lack of representation is a problem because media impacts more of our lives than many of us even realize. Lack of representation means a longer and tougher fight for equal rights.



You want to see a summer action movie with an all female cast? Then go to a film school, get a degree in screenwriting, write a screenplay, and make George Lucas proud with your persistence in getting it approved. Will it be hard work? Yes! But if it's what you care about, then do something about it; try to make the world improve. Shouldn't that be everyone's goal?

Not to answer entirely for Kit, but this speaks to my previous point so I thought I'd respond directly.

Simply but, what you just described probably won't happen. Getting such a script approved would require a lot of people to get on board with the idea, and frankly, there's a lot of deep-set stereotypes in that field (as there are in any other). As soon as some CEO mistakenly believes that they'd get more money by inverting the gender ratio and making your hypothetical feature merely another edition of The Expendables, that step towards equality is stopped in its tracks.

Understanding the flaws of the past and learning from them to change how society treats its members in the future is critical. But there are a lot of stereotypes and prejudices, and eliminating them will help everyone in different ways. Conforming to different roles—in this case, gender roles—is harmful to anyone who does not act well within the boundaries set by social expectations.

 
tl;dr the gender ratio in BIONICLE is actually incredibly important to a lot of people within the community.

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I think we've lost the point somewhere along the line here. This topic wasn't "Gender diversity in BIONICLE:Gotta include them All". This was a simple question asking of the original six, who would change to make the team equal in gender? That's easy, since as mostly robotic beings, the Toa could only exist somewhere between the two binary extremes. Romance doesn't exist in canon, so out the window goes LGB, and the lesser known sexual orientations declaring what you are sexually attracted to. Gender is only mental, so we don't have the problem of someone's mental gender not matching their physical sex.

 

In short: Biomechanical beings can only be mentally gendered, so male/female & (arguably) nongendered are the plausible options.

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:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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I think we've lost the point somewhere along the line here. This topic wasn't "Gender diversity in BIONICLE:Gotta include them All". This was a simple question asking of the original six, who would change to make the team equal in gender? That's easy, since as mostly robotic beings, the Toa could only exist somewhere between the two binary extremes. Romance doesn't exist in canon, so out the window goes LGB, and the lesser known sexual orientations declaring what you are sexually attracted to. Gender is only mental, so we don't have the problem of someone's mental gender not matching their physical sex.

 

In short: Biomechanical beings can only be mentally gendered, so male/female & (arguably) nongendered are the plausible options.

There's plenty of identities outside of those three choices you deemed the only acceptable options, most of the discussion came from people mocking, or outright denying the existence of those identities which falls in line with the purview of the topic as it's about equitable gender representation in Bionicle.

 

Some people used romance or popular shipping options as reasons why they'd change this or that, but any other argument was because some people can't get past the concept of non-binary identities and felt the need to shout them down for no apparent reason.

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I'm admittedly not in tune with the psychology of gender, buy these are robots. They don't have any physical reason to be male or female. Judging by canon, they're all monogendered asexual. Cisgender fails to have meaning, as does trans. LGB all fail when sexual attraction is taken out of the mix, because platonic friendships form regardless of gender.

 

I'm genuinely interested though. Taking the variables of physical gender, sexual attraction and romance out of the human perception of gender, how many possibilities can there realistically be, or can be realistically differentiated?

Edited by Regitnui

:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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