Jump to content
Onaku

How Makuta infected Mata-Nui

Recommended Posts

Now, I just looked it up on BS01, and the only thing it states is that Makuta infected Mata-Nui with a virus that eventually put him to sleep. Nothing about how he did it. So i was wandering how he managed it? Where did he get the virus into Mata-Nui's systems? Did he go down below the Coliseum for it? I think this empty slot for his method (if there is one, i mean, i may have missed something. correct me if i am wrong, please.) gives room for speculation.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I think Makuta did something down in the Core Processor. He couldn't have just planted a virus into the ground. Teridax used a Makuta-designed virus to cast the Great Spirit into a deep slumber.


< -< =<o>= >- >


 


 


Ha! I tricked you into reading my signature!


 


 


< -< =<o>= >- >

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if there is a canon answer to this but if there is Bonesii or Fishers will surely be here to provide it soon! Personally I think it would be nice if this could be one bit of Bionicle lore that was left uncanonised. There's not much of that left thesedays and I bet some of the authors out there could put together some pretty good fanfics surrounding this act of sabotage! Unless it's canonised of course, like everything else...

  • Upvote 1


Check out my Bionicle store on Bricklink here!

> > > Bionic Bricks < < <

 

Let me know if you can help me find these last few collectibles!

Masks%20footer4_zpspqs4myrt.png

Also looking for WILD KRAATA and a VMKK Yo!!!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, how big might the Core Processor be? I mean, does the Metru-Nui dome take up most of Mata-Nui's head, or does is it only a small surface to a heap of complex machinery within the Great Spirit's cranium?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It actually always irked me that it was left so vague, since it's such a significant story detail. "How did Makuta manage to administer a virus that affected a vital part of the giant robot's systems that logically must have been defended in some way?" "He just did"

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was it not the virus TSO stole?

 

It's true that the Shadowed One now possesses a copy of the virus that put Mata Nui to sleep. However, this fact is really not relevant to the discussion at hand, which is how Makuta was able to administer that virus.

  • Upvote 1

"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
-- Harlan Ellison

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We actually were given an answer. 

 

Teridax designed the virus to infiltrate Mata Nui's systems from anywhere. He made it, activated it, and then the virus spread through the air and into the ground until it reached some of the vital systems, which carried it through to the Core Processor. During that time, Teridax didn't know exactly what Mata Nui was, but he had guessed, and it was only when the Great Cataclysm struck that he realized that he was right. Because he unleashed the virus inside the robot, all he had to do was wait until it caught the right system and knocked Mata Nui out. The virus was designed to be long-lasting and widespread, so even if Teridax didn't know of a specific spot to start, the virus itself would seek one out, and the deed would be done.

  • Upvote 2

~Your friendly, neighborhood Shadow

 

sotpbanner.png

~Credit for Avatar and Banner goes to

NickonAquaMagna~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, how big might the Core Processor be? I mean, does the Metru-Nui dome take up most of Mata-Nui's head, or does is it only a small surface to a heap of complex machinery within the Great Spirit's cranium?

 

Someone posted up a great Faber concept pic this week that shows a sort of external overhead view of how the GSR lies in the ocean. It shows Voya Nui, Mata Nui and Metru Nui (shown as a silhouette beneath Mata Nui) It's shown to be SIGNIFICANTLY smaller than Mata Nui. I don't have the image to hand but I'd suggest it's probably no more than 10-20% of the size of Mata Nui. This seems very small but given that Mata Nui was an entire island and Metru Nui was just a huge city it does make sense. Until you remember the scenes in the movie which show gigantic wastelands all over it that is... 



Check out my Bionicle store on Bricklink here!

> > > Bionic Bricks < < <

 

Let me know if you can help me find these last few collectibles!

Masks%20footer4_zpspqs4myrt.png

Also looking for WILD KRAATA and a VMKK Yo!!!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think those giant wastelands are non-canon. They seem so out of place.

Not really. Consider that Rahi migrated to Metru Nui over the centuries, and they obviously found places of residence. If they all moved into the city areas, then there could have been problems. So, it makes sense that some areas were left open, like small nature reserves here and there for the Rahi to populate. Why would they be out of place?


~Your friendly, neighborhood Shadow

 

sotpbanner.png

~Credit for Avatar and Banner goes to

NickonAquaMagna~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vq_zvTQH_20/UKlk1W3HFmI/AAAAAAAAAfk/zHQIqhG16P4/s1600/Christian+Faber+files_Metru+Nui+3D+concept2.jpg

 

Po-Metru has a kinda-sorta desert but it's all elevated, meaning no water sources and, because really weird fantasy desert, no food.

 

Ko-Metru might be more nature than anything else, but judging from official maps of the place, neither Po- or Ko-Metru have any sort of nature preserve. It might look natural, but mostly it's lots of towers. In fact, it kinda looks like pretty much all that terrain is just a side effect of being a heightmap render. Most maps I've seen depict it as entirely urban.

Edited by bonesiii
Large filesize image converted to link. -bones

LEGO Republic:

The Valkyrie

The "Christmas Brick"

 

My BZPRPG Profiles

 

Now a proud member of The Kanohi Force

76561198041367047.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe, just MAYBE, we can't actually rely on any of the sources because they DIDN'T think of absolutely everything?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe, just MAYBE, we can't actually rely on any of the sources because they DIDN'T think of absolutely everything?

A few of the books casually mention some open areas, though these were mostly said to be in Po-Metru. Onu-Metru, I believe, had a few such locations on the surface, as the Onu-Matoran spent most of their time below-ground.

 

In the movies, you notice that Ga-Metru has some plant-filled areas. Gardens, perhaps?

Edited by ~T1S~
  • Upvote 1

~Your friendly, neighborhood Shadow

 

sotpbanner.png

~Credit for Avatar and Banner goes to

NickonAquaMagna~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never seen that image before but it's appalling! It's literally just a height-map? Really? They made a movie but couldn't be bothered to actually render a proper shot of the location where it happens? Shame on you TLG...

 

And I certainly don't think we can say the open areas are non-canon. The movies are pretty much the highest level of canon there is aren't they? Unless Greg disagrees of course  <_<



Check out my Bionicle store on Bricklink here!

> > > Bionic Bricks < < <

 

Let me know if you can help me find these last few collectibles!

Masks%20footer4_zpspqs4myrt.png

Also looking for WILD KRAATA and a VMKK Yo!!!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never seen that image before but it's appalling! It's literally just a height-map? Really? They made a movie but couldn't be bothered to actually render a proper shot of the location where it happens? Shame on you TLG...

 

And I certainly don't think we can say the open areas are non-canon. The movies are pretty much the highest level of canon there is aren't they? Unless Greg disagrees of course  <_<

I think the image is just a concept piece. Notice Faber's signature in the corner, as well as the date. Probably just preliminary.

 

The movies aren't entirely canon, but the basic story they portray is. A couple minor details deviate, but that's just artistic license. I'm gonna stick with those casual mentions of open, more natural areas placed here and there is some of the districts.

 

Actually, it might make a lot of sense in Onu-Metru. Say they've got some kind of Rahi they want to observe in its natural habitat, so they have set up on the surface a controlled nature-area in which to place the rahi while the Matoran observe from a distance. Though never mentioned, I think that'd be a much better way to study Rahi than to just look at sleeping ones in the stasis tubes.

  • Upvote 2

~Your friendly, neighborhood Shadow

 

sotpbanner.png

~Credit for Avatar and Banner goes to

NickonAquaMagna~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It actually always irked me that it was left so vague, since it's such a significant story detail. "How did Makuta manage to administer a virus that affected a vital part of the giant robot's systems that logically must have been defended in some way?" "He just did"

But wasn't that explained? He was posing as Turaga Dume and people did trust him.

 

-NotS


tahubanner.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

It actually always irked me that it was left so vague, since it's such a significant story detail. "How did Makuta manage to administer a virus that affected a vital part of the giant robot's systems that logically must have been defended in some way?" "He just did"

But wasn't that explained? He was posing as Turaga Dume and people did trust him.

 

-NotS

 

This is true. He was posing as Dume for almost a year before the GC struck, so he most likely just released it into the Metru Nui area and let it find its way into his system on its own. We have automated viruses in our world, too. Teridax didn't know the exact location of the Core Processor, just that it was somewhere in the robot's head. He implemented the virus into the general system, and it found its own way there.


~Your friendly, neighborhood Shadow

 

sotpbanner.png

~Credit for Avatar and Banner goes to

NickonAquaMagna~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I've never seen that image before but it's appalling! It's literally just a height-map? Really? They made a movie but couldn't be bothered to actually render a proper shot of the location where it happens? Shame on you TLG...

 

And I certainly don't think we can say the open areas are non-canon. The movies are pretty much the highest level of canon there is aren't they? Unless Greg disagrees of course  <_<

I think the image is just a concept piece. Notice Faber's signature in the corner, as well as the date. Probably just preliminary.

 

The movies aren't entirely canon, but the basic story they portray is. A couple minor details deviate, but that's just artistic license. I'm gonna stick with those casual mentions of open, more natural areas placed here and there is some of the districts.

 

Actually, it might make a lot of sense in Onu-Metru. Say they've got some kind of Rahi they want to observe in its natural habitat, so they have set up on the surface a controlled nature-area in which to place the rahi while the Matoran observe from a distance. Though never mentioned, I think that'd be a much better way to study Rahi than to just look at sleeping ones in the stasis tubes.

 

After the incident with Marvah's Rahi, I'd think that they would have abandoned that. That whole story implies that it wasn't common practice. 

 

There's a difference between a scientist and a museum curator. Scientists are in Ga-Metru, curators are in Onu-Metru. Different specialty. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I've never seen that image before but it's appalling! It's literally just a height-map? Really? They made a movie but couldn't be bothered to actually render a proper shot of the location where it happens? Shame on you TLG...

 

And I certainly don't think we can say the open areas are non-canon. The movies are pretty much the highest level of canon there is aren't they? Unless Greg disagrees of course  <_<

I think the image is just a concept piece. Notice Faber's signature in the corner, as well as the date. Probably just preliminary.

 

The movies aren't entirely canon, but the basic story they portray is. A couple minor details deviate, but that's just artistic license. I'm gonna stick with those casual mentions of open, more natural areas placed here and there is some of the districts.

 

Actually, it might make a lot of sense in Onu-Metru. Say they've got some kind of Rahi they want to observe in its natural habitat, so they have set up on the surface a controlled nature-area in which to place the rahi while the Matoran observe from a distance. Though never mentioned, I think that'd be a much better way to study Rahi than to just look at sleeping ones in the stasis tubes.

 

After the incident with Marvah's Rahi, I'd think that they would have abandoned that. That whole story implies that it wasn't common practice. 

 

There's a difference between a scientist and a museum curator. Scientists are in Ga-Metru, curators are in Onu-Metru. Different specialty. 

 

Mavrah and Co. couldn't have been the ONLY Onu-Matoran interested in observing wildlife. 


~Your friendly, neighborhood Shadow

 

sotpbanner.png

~Credit for Avatar and Banner goes to

NickonAquaMagna~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Mavrah and Co. couldn't have been the ONLY Onu-Matoran interested in observing wildlife. 

True, but your post implied that it was officially sanctioned. I could imagine a few Onu-Matoran taking up wildlife observation as a hobby, but it probably wasn't their main job. 

 

Sorry if I didn't specify that. :P I meant to imply that anyone (not everyone) could use it. Ga-Matoran teachers taking their class on a field trip, for example.


~Your friendly, neighborhood Shadow

 

sotpbanner.png

~Credit for Avatar and Banner goes to

NickonAquaMagna~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We actually were given an answer. 

 

Teridax designed the virus to infiltrate Mata Nui's systems from anywhere. He made it, activated it, and then the virus spread through the air and into the ground until it reached some of the vital systems, which carried it through to the Core Processor. During that time, Teridax didn't know exactly what Mata Nui was, but he had guessed, and it was only when the Great Cataclysm struck that he realized that he was right. Because he unleashed the virus inside the robot, all he had to do was wait until it caught the right system and knocked Mata Nui out. The virus was designed to be long-lasting and widespread, so even if Teridax didn't know of a specific spot to start, the virus itself would seek one out, and the deed would be done.

I remember this from back when it was asked of Greg. Pretty sure he said that Teridax simply seeded the virus throughout the MU. It's honestly almost foolproof because even if he was wrong and Mata Nui wasn't also the MU, he was still a being within the universe somewhere and probably would have been affected by it anyway. Only way it definitely wouldn't have worked was if Mata Nui turned out to be someone existing outside the universe.

 

On the Turaga Dume disguise - was it actually confirmed that he released the virus while he was in disguise? Or did he do it before, then head over to Metru Nui? Remember the MU is almost as large as an Earth-sized planet, although smaller volume-wise. Depending on how air and water circulated, it might have taken the virus years to reach the right spot.



APlayofLight_zps1888c63b.jpeg

 

Part One of the Chrysalis Saga

By Takuta-Nui

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

We actually were given an answer. 

 

Teridax designed the virus to infiltrate Mata Nui's systems from anywhere. He made it, activated it, and then the virus spread through the air and into the ground until it reached some of the vital systems, which carried it through to the Core Processor. During that time, Teridax didn't know exactly what Mata Nui was, but he had guessed, and it was only when the Great Cataclysm struck that he realized that he was right. Because he unleashed the virus inside the robot, all he had to do was wait until it caught the right system and knocked Mata Nui out. The virus was designed to be long-lasting and widespread, so even if Teridax didn't know of a specific spot to start, the virus itself would seek one out, and the deed would be done.

I remember this from back when it was asked of Greg. Pretty sure he said that Teridax simply seeded the virus throughout the MU. It's honestly almost foolproof because even if he was wrong and Mata Nui wasn't also the MU, he was still a being within the universe somewhere and probably would have been affected by it anyway. Only way it definitely wouldn't have worked was if Mata Nui turned out to be someone existing outside the universe.

 

On the Turaga Dume disguise - was it actually confirmed that he released the virus while he was in disguise? Or did he do it before, then head over to Metru Nui? Remember the MU is almost as large as an Earth-sized planet, although smaller volume-wise. Depending on how air and water circulated, it might have taken the virus years to reach the right spot.

 

Well, let's start with what we know. Teridax knew the universe was somehow related to Mata Nui, and that Metru Nui was highly important. We know he seeded the virus through out the universe, so we're considering that he may have started doing that in the south, and worked his way up to Metru Nui, where he planted the virus once more and then took the form of Dume to keep an eye on that area, knowing it was important--he'd want to see the virus' effects there to fully understand Mata Nui's nature, as he didn't know he was living inside a planet-sized robot prior to the Cataclysm.


~Your friendly, neighborhood Shadow

 

sotpbanner.png

~Credit for Avatar and Banner goes to

NickonAquaMagna~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

We actually were given an answer. 

 

Teridax designed the virus to infiltrate Mata Nui's systems from anywhere. He made it, activated it, and then the virus spread through the air and into the ground until it reached some of the vital systems, which carried it through to the Core Processor. During that time, Teridax didn't know exactly what Mata Nui was, but he had guessed, and it was only when the Great Cataclysm struck that he realized that he was right. Because he unleashed the virus inside the robot, all he had to do was wait until it caught the right system and knocked Mata Nui out. The virus was designed to be long-lasting and widespread, so even if Teridax didn't know of a specific spot to start, the virus itself would seek one out, and the deed would be done.

 

I remember this from back when it was asked of Greg. Pretty sure he said that Teridax simply seeded the virus throughout the MU. It's honestly almost foolproof because even if he was wrong and Mata Nui wasn't also the MU, he was still a being within the universe somewhere and probably would have been affected by it anyway. Only way it definitely wouldn't have worked was if Mata Nui turned out to be someone existing outside the universe.

 

On the Turaga Dume disguise - was it actually confirmed that he released the virus while he was in disguise? Or did he do it before, then head over to Metru Nui? Remember the MU is almost as large as an Earth-sized planet, although smaller volume-wise. Depending on how air and water circulated, it might have taken the virus years to reach the right spot.

Well, let's start with what we know. Teridax knew the universe was somehow related to Mata Nui, and that Metru Nui was highly important. We know he seeded the virus through out the universe, so we're considering that he may have started doing that in the south, and worked his way up to Metru Nui, where he planted the virus once more and then took the form of Dume to keep an eye on that area, knowing it was important--he'd want to see the virus' effects there to fully understand Mata Nui's nature, as he didn't know he was living inside a planet-sized robot prior to the Cataclysm.

That makes sense to me. I'm sure he didn't shy away from teleporting into the dangerous southern regions, releasing the virus, and then getting out of dodge. :P



APlayofLight_zps1888c63b.jpeg

 

Part One of the Chrysalis Saga

By Takuta-Nui

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He tickled Mata Nui into submission, then forced him to take an overdose of Benadryl. The drowsy effects of the medicine immediately put him to sleep.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One question, mainly directed at the original explaination T1S provided:

 

Didn't Makuta already know Mata Nui was a giant robot and all that? Cux you know, Tren Krom shared knowledge with Mutran, and Mutran delivered the info to Teridax.. I'm pretty sure Tren Krom flat out told them that MN was a big ol robot...


                      Archon                      


***


"For one to truly feel alive, the person must kill oneself a little bit each and every day."


 


Check out my MOC, one of the new generation of Toa on Spherus Magna!


***Toa Kyraan***

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One question, mainly directed at the original explaination T1S provided:

 

Didn't Makuta already know Mata Nui was a giant robot and all that? Cux you know, Tren Krom shared knowledge with Mutran, and Mutran delivered the info to Teridax.. I'm pretty sure Tren Krom flat out told them that MN was a big ol robot...

No, he did not. Tren Krom knew something of it, as he had to maintain the universe before Mata Nui took over. However, Mutran and Teridax did not know this. Or, at least, Teridax didn't, at first. All they knew is that the MU was directly connected to Mata Nui in some way, so Teridax put his theory to the test. Teridax knew that in order to defeat Mata Nui, he had to somehow take control of Metru Nui. At first, he believed MN to be truly what everyone called him--the Great Spirit. It wasn't until the virus struck the universe and knocked Mata Nui out of the sky that he learned that the universe wasn't just connected to Mata Nui--it WAS Mata Nui. He didn't realize how Metru Nui was literally the titan's brain.

 

Now, I think the Order may have known it first, but, knowing them, they probably kept that information strictly secret.


~Your friendly, neighborhood Shadow

 

sotpbanner.png

~Credit for Avatar and Banner goes to

NickonAquaMagna~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm okay, didn't know that! :P

 

Brings up another question/thought: did the Avtoran know about MN being a giant robot? I mean they were the first ones to build it, right? Or did they just work on the insides of it?

Also, who did know about the robot? The Agori who worked on building it? Who even built this thing? :P

 

WE NEED ANSWERS PEOPLE.

Edited by Archon~

                      Archon                      


***


"For one to truly feel alive, the person must kill oneself a little bit each and every day."


 


Check out my MOC, one of the new generation of Toa on Spherus Magna!


***Toa Kyraan***

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm okay, didn't know that! :P

 

Brings up another question/thought: did the Avtoran know about MN being a giant robot? I mean they were the first ones to build it, right? Or did they just work on the insides of it?

Also, who did know about the robot? The Agori who worked on building it? Who even built this thing? :P

 

WE NEED ANSWERS PEOPLE.

The illustrated serial on the website that revealed Mata Nui's journey implies that the Great Beings constructed the outer shell and scaffold to hold it up, and then made the Matoran to work inside. They wouldn't have known the full scope of what they were building - the legend only remembers that they worked in darkness and if they proved their skill, they would be sent to Artakha. I doubt the Av-Matoran were treated any differently - they were probably assigned to construct the Universe Core, Codrex, and their homes. Possibly Bohrok-related construction as well, seeing how they are related.

 

If the Great Beings had Agori, Glatorian, or other species unmentioned in story help build the initial phases of the robot, it isn't explicitly stated. I know bones' retelling portrays the robot being deliberately constructed very far away from the Bara Magna area, so that explains why the characters in that area didn't know of it. But it's quite possible there were other Agori civilizations on the other side of the planet that assisted, and those were later separated from the Bara Magna events by the Shattering so that information never got passed on.

 

That, or the Great Beings really care about non-disclosure agreements. :P

  • Upvote 1


APlayofLight_zps1888c63b.jpeg

 

Part One of the Chrysalis Saga

By Takuta-Nui

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought it was pretty clear that Tren Krom told Mutran about the robot. He must have known - he piloted the thing for awhile. 
 

When I awoke again, I lay on the deserted beach. There was no sign of Tren Krom, or even the cavern in which I had encountered him. I thought perhaps the whole thing had been a nightmare, some trick of my fellow Makuta… and then I knew it could not be. For I understood now… I knew how the universe worked, and as much as my mind could stand, why the universe worked.

And I knew one thing more – that Makuta Teridax’s mad dreams of overthrowing the Great Spirit Mata Nui were not just fantasies. It was possible. It could work. The knowledge I held was the ammunition for the weapon Teridax would one day wield, a weapon that would win us a universe.

What would that be, if not the robot?

Edited by fishers64
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought it was pretty clear that Tren Krom told Mutran about the robot. He must have known - he piloted the thing for awhile. 

 

When I awoke again, I lay on the deserted beach. There was no sign of Tren Krom, or even the cavern in which I had encountered him. I thought perhaps the whole thing had been a nightmare, some trick of my fellow Makuta… and then I knew it could not be. For I understood now… I knew how the universe worked, and as much as my mind could stand, why the universe worked.

 

And I knew one thing more – that Makuta Teridax’s mad dreams of overthrowing the Great Spirit Mata Nui were not just fantasies. It was possible. It could work. The knowledge I held was the ammunition for the weapon Teridax would one day wield, a weapon that would win us a universe.

What would that be, if not the robot?

He did know. We saw this when he possessed Lewa's body and traveled to the Core Processor to send Mata Nui the message about the golden armor.

 

However, Teridax did not know about the robot until right away. Perhaps Mutran only glimpsed the information, or didn't fully understand it himself, or perhaps hee felt like withholding the information from Teridax. Who knows? But Greg said that Teridax didn't factor the robot itself into his plan until after the GC, implying that he didn't know about it beforehand.


~Your friendly, neighborhood Shadow

 

sotpbanner.png

~Credit for Avatar and Banner goes to

NickonAquaMagna~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But Greg said that Teridax didn't factor the robot itself into his plan until after the GC, implying that he didn't know about it beforehand.

That doesn't follow. Greg said that being imprisoned in the protocage forced Makuta to rethink his plans, and it dawned on him then to try to take over the giant. He didn't get any new information from Tren Krom or Mutran at that time, so he knew, he just hadn't yet imagined actually taking over, versus casting Mata Nui asleep and conquering in a more traditional way inside the Matoran Universe akin to his original plans before the TK intel.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

But Greg said that Teridax didn't factor the robot itself into his plan until after the GC, implying that he didn't know about it beforehand.

That doesn't follow. Greg said that being imprisoned in the protocage forced Makuta to rethink his plans, and it dawned on him then to try to take over the giant. He didn't get any new information from Tren Krom or Mutran at that time, so he knew, he just hadn't yet imagined actually taking over, versus casting Mata Nui asleep and conquering in a more traditional way inside the Matoran Universe akin to his original plans before the TK intel.

 

So, I hand you a book on computers, but then I ask you to only read the general synopsis on the back. You can probably figure out some of the basics from that, but does it tell you exactly how the screen functions? Could you figure out how to bypass the security from that? Could you build a working copy of a computer brain from that? Does it give you every tiny detail? 

 

Mutran glimpsed TK's mind--he wasn't given a lecture on it. :P For all we know, the information he received from that encounter was "The universe is directly related to Mata Nui." It could have been like in the Inheritance Cycle, in which Dragons and Riders are bound to each other. Rider dies, so does the Dragon. If he didn't know that Mata Nui was the universe, then he could have thought that "if the universe dies, so does Mata Nui." That information would tell him "how it works" but not "what it is." Keep in mind that Mutran's mind isn't all there, for the most part. 

 

Besides, if Teridax knew about the giant, wouldn't he have just tried a more direct approach in the first place? The Makuta with back-up plans behind back-up plans, and he didn't have a way to remove/disable Mata Nui's mind/spirit and replace it with his own? Instead, he focused on becoming the ruler of Metru Nui. If he did know about the robot, then why not just cut out the middle-man and go straight for the Core Processor?

 

The fact that the story never told us exactly what Mutran learned coupled with the fact that Teridax took an apparently unnecessary detour to achieve his goals implies that they didn't know everything. Also, because the story deliberately left us in the dark about what exactly Mutran learned from TK means that either theory is viable. 

Edited by ~T1S~

~Your friendly, neighborhood Shadow

 

sotpbanner.png

~Credit for Avatar and Banner goes to

NickonAquaMagna~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Makuta with back-up plans behind back-up plans, and he didn't have a way to remove/disable Mata Nui's mind/spirit and replace it with his own?

If you think about it, that makes perfect sense. What do we know about the Great Beings? Besides their inventiveness and those basics -- it's that they love contingencies, and even planned for many that resemble thinking that their creations were fully sapient (I don't think that's the idea; I think they thought that glitching AI could possibly do some of the same things an evil being could, but the point is, they seemed to take every precaution they had time for, with possibly some oversights). Mata Nui is the controlling consciousness for the entire giant robot; they would surely want to protect him. In fact, trapping Tren Krom was all about that in the first place.

 

So, there would be security safeguards, likely designed to be seemingly insurmountable. So Makuta probably assumed he couldn't take it over, until his first major defeat, and desperation that his original plans weren't going to work may have forced him to try to look for ways to get past it.

 

You also have to consider that no matter how brilliant he was, he was still evil, which shows a one-track nature. He wasn't thinking about why going down that road of corruption was a bad idea. Once he had a goal, he would throw everything into accomplishing it. Well, his original goal was the accolades of the Matoran, not controlling a giant spaceship. He'd set his mind into all the details of how to go about that.

 

In that context, then, when his now-insane friend started babbling about what the ancient monster had told him, Makuta's first and most natural way to incorporate the information would be to think about how it helps his current goal.

 

You also have to keep in mind that until about that time, Mata Nui was still a conscious entity. Put yourself in Makuta's shoes here. He already has been tempted to think about overthrowing the Great Spirit, inspired by the example of the Barraki. He's thought about this for many, many hundreds of years. He would become quite stuck in that rut, logically. Then he finds out Mata Nui isn't living in secret in Metru Nui, or hiding in the southern isles, or one of the continents, or on some secret island in the northern areas -- he is all around Makuta. His first thought wouldn't be "it's a giant spaceship I can take over and explore... uh... big emptiness out there..." -- it would be "MY ENEMY IS EVERYWHERE -- LITERALLY!"

 

It's quite possible that would have a restricting effect on his psychology until he did succeed in doing what perhaps he had imagined might be almost impossible, and cast that enemy into slumber. No longer would his mind be almost completely occupied with making sure every move he made was kept hidden from the enemy that could be watching everywhere. That would have a huge freeing effect on his thinking. It makes sense he would only put two and two together then.

 

Now it could also make sense he thought of it before, and I had originally assumed that, but past topics brought this out that he only thought of it at the time of the protocage. :)

 

Edit:

 

Also, because the story deliberately left us in the dark about what exactly Mutran learned from TK means that either theory is viable.

Either of what? If you mean the one I was replying to, that Teridax didn't learn about the giant robot from Mutran, you apparently missed that I pointed out it isn't viable, since Teridax didn't gain any new intel in the protocage; he was forced to rethink how to use what he already knew, and his conclusion was takeover of the giant robot. He knew.

Edited by bonesiii
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*pulls out staple gun*

Mutran glimpsed TK's mind--he wasn't given a lecture on it. :P [Theory #1:]For all we know, the information he received from that encounter was "The universe is directly related to Mata Nui." It could have been like in the Inheritance Cycle, in which Dragons and Riders are bound to each other. Rider dies, so does the Dragon. If he didn't know that Mata Nui was the universe, then he could have thought that "if the universe dies, so does Mata Nui." That information would tell him "how it works" but not "what it is." Keep in mind that Mutran's mind isn't all there, for the most part. [/end Theory #1]

 

Besides, if [Theory #2:]Teridax knew about the giant[/end Theory #2], wouldn't he have just tried a more direct approach in the first place? The Makuta with back-up plans behind back-up plans, and he didn't have a way to remove/disable Mata Nui's mind/spirit and replace it with his own? Instead, he focused on becoming the ruler of Metru Nui. If he did know about the robot, then why not just cut out the middle-man and go straight for the Core Processor?

 

The fact that the story never told us exactly what Mutran learned coupled with the fact that Teridax took an apparently unnecessary detour to achieve his goals implies that they didn't know everything. Also, because the story deliberately left us in the dark about what exactly Mutran learned from TK means that either theory is viable. 

[/pet peeve obsessive nitpicking]

 

Theory #1 doesn't cover Makuta being able to put Mata Nui to sleep though. Makuta would have to know certain things about Mata Nui for him to actually take down Mata Nui, and the fact that he was a giant robot that Makuta was inside of would rank among those things. To put something to sleep, you have to know what it is and what your relationship to it is. 

Edited by fishers64

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The Makuta with back-up plans behind back-up plans, and he didn't have a way to remove/disable Mata Nui's mind/spirit and replace it with his own?

If you think about it, that makes perfect sense. What do we know about the Great Beings? Besides their inventiveness and those basics -- it's that they love contingencies, and even planned for many that resemble thinking that their creations were fully sapient (I don't think that's the idea; I think they thought that glitching AI could possibly do some of the same things an evil being could, but the point is, they seemed to take every precaution they had time for, with possibly some oversights). Mata Nui is the controlling consciousness for the entire giant robot; they would surely want to protect him. In fact, trapping Tren Krom was all about that in the first place.

 

So, there would be security safeguards, likely designed to be seemingly insurmountable. So Makuta probably assumed he couldn't take it over, until his first major defeat, and desperation that his original plans weren't going to work may have forced him to try to look for ways to get past it.

 

You also have to consider that no matter how brilliant he was, he was still evil, which shows a one-track nature. He wasn't thinking about why going down that road of corruption was a bad idea. Once he had a goal, he would throw everything into accomplishing it. Well, his original goal was the accolades of the Matoran, not controlling a giant spaceship. He'd set his mind into all the details of how to go about that.

 

In that context, then, when his now-insane friend started babbling about what the ancient monster had told him, Makuta's first and most natural way to incorporate the information would be to think about how it helps his current goal.

 

You also have to keep in mind that until about that time, Mata Nui was still a conscious entity. Put yourself in Makuta's shoes here. He already has been tempted to think about overthrowing the Great Spirit, inspired by the example of the Barraki. He's thought about this for many, many hundreds of years. He would become quite stuck in that rut, logically. Then he finds out Mata Nui isn't living in secret in Metru Nui, or hiding in the southern isles, or one of the continents, or on some secret island in the northern areas -- he is all around Makuta. His first thought wouldn't be "it's a giant spaceship I can take over and explore... uh... big emptiness out there..." -- it would be "MY ENEMY IS EVERYWHERE -- LITERALLY!"

 

It's quite possible that would have a restricting effect on his psychology until he did succeed in doing what perhaps he had imagined might be almost impossible, and cast that enemy into slumber. No longer would his mind be almost completely occupied with making sure every move he made was kept hidden from the enemy that could be watching everywhere. That would have a huge freeing effect on his thinking. It makes sense he would only put two and two together then.

 

Now it could also make sense he thought of it before, and I had originally assumed that, but past topics brought this out that he only thought of it at the time of the protocage. :)

 

Edit:

 

Also, because the story deliberately left us in the dark about what exactly Mutran learned from TK means that either theory is viable.

Either of what? If you mean the one I was replying to, that Teridax didn't learn about the giant robot from Mutran, you apparently missed that I pointed out it isn't viable, since Teridax didn't gain any new intel in the protocage; he was forced to rethink how to use what he already knew, and his conclusion was takeover of the giant robot. He knew.

 

Ah, good point about the GBs. Hadn't thought of them. Very true.

 

Being evil doesn't necessarily mean one-track. If it does, then why stop at ruling the universe from the inside? Why go to all that trouble just to stop short? I suspect he'd have gone all the way, unless he didn't understand how it worked in its entirety.

 

I get what you mean about the idea of him not knowing what to do with the giant body. However, if he did understand that, then he would know (or suspect, at least) that there were whole worlds out there to conquer. If he truly thought the Matoran Universe would be an easy-ish prize, then why not set his sights on something beyond?

 

As for what I meant by "either theory" I was referring to mine (that he found out about the robot after the GC and some exploration of Metru Nui and the Coliseum) and the one that Mutran did find out everything and managed to retain it all in a semi-organized fashion that he recounted to Teridax. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. :P

 

*pulls out staple gun*[/pet peeve obsessive nitpicking]

 

Theory #1 doesn't cover Makuta being able to put Mata Nui to sleep though. Makuta would have to know certain things about Mata Nui for him to actually take down Mata Nui, and the fact that he was a giant robot that Makuta was inside of would rank among those things. To put something to sleep, you have to know what it is and what your relationship to it is. 

I'd thought about that a bit, and to figure it out, we have to look at some of the theories that predate the big reveal. One was that Mata Nui was a being within the universe. If that were the case, then it would be simple to create a virus that infiltrates the air and seeks out the specific individual.

Or, if the case about Mata Nui having a Dragon/Rider connection with the universe, then the virus could have attacked the systems of the MU, and the "harm" done to it would remotely affect Mata Nui's well-being.

Now, if Mutran didn't know or didn't fully understand the information he'd gleaned from TK's mind, then he could have made any number of theories to fill in the gaps, some of which could have been similar to the ones listed. Besides, considering that Teridax does have multiple back-up plans, he could have set up the virus to account for the multiple possibilities, or created separate viruses for each. 

 

If any of that didn't make sense, I apologize. I'm a little tired today. :shrugs:


~Your friendly, neighborhood Shadow

 

sotpbanner.png

~Credit for Avatar and Banner goes to

NickonAquaMagna~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not literally one-track, but having a tendency to have narrow vision, even though within that vision he could be thorough. Point is, he decided to leave the path of good because he was jealous of Mata Nui getting those accolades instead of him; it obviously had an overpowering effect on his mind. If he could easily move on to other goals like space conquering missions, he likely would have moved on to other goals that didn't require such a risky betrayal in the first place. He's obsessive, so it makes sense he wouldn't really adapt it too much until a huge defeat like that.

 

Even when he did take over, he spent a lot of time stifling uprisings and threats inside the MU before leaving Aqua Magna, and the story gave no clear indication he had even formed a game plan for what to do from there. I think he was probably expanding his vision, to seek accolades somehow from other worlds, but he may also have felt he'd be content with achieving his original goal, at least for a while.

 

And there wasn't time between the GC and his being protocaged for him to explore anything beyond what he would already know. Plus, at that time he was having the mental struggle with Nidhiki and Krekka who he had absorbed. He wouldn't likely be making any brilliant innovations in that short time; only after that settled down while sitting there in the protocage.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

And there wasn't time between the GC and his being protocaged for him to explore anything beyond what he would already know. Plus, at that time he was having the mental struggle with Nidhiki and Krekka who he had absorbed. He wouldn't likely be making any brilliant innovations in that short time; only after that settled down while sitting there in the protocage.

True, but I meant during his year and a half as Dume. He could have explored then, made some discoveries, and made the connection later, which I guess kinda lines up with what you're saying.

Edited by ~T1S~

~Your friendly, neighborhood Shadow

 

sotpbanner.png

~Credit for Avatar and Banner goes to

NickonAquaMagna~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

And there wasn't time between the GC and his being protocaged for him to explore anything beyond what he would already know. Plus, at that time he was having the mental struggle with Nidhiki and Krekka who he had absorbed. He wouldn't likely be making any brilliant innovations in that short time; only after that settled down while sitting there in the protocage.

True, but I meant during his year and a half as Dume. He could have explored then, made some discoveries, and made the connection later, which I guess kinda lines up with what you're saying. 

 

Actually I think that would be the time he would least want to do any unauthorized exploring. Maintaining a cover identity would supersede any knowledge-acquiring concerns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...