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Size of the Great Spirit Robot: Are We Getting Actual Size?


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I just saw the new Turaga File on Mata Nui and Denmark. That's... actually a lot better than Greg's number. 3000km is a far more reasonable number than 40 million feet. 

 

Again, Greg has no sense of scale. Faber, on the other hand, does. Yet Greg's number is canon, while Faber's isn't. It's still impossibly big by real-world standard, but at least it's better than Greg's idea of scale.

 

greg's idea of scale is the same as 20-Q's idea of scale.

 

"Is it bigger than a planet?" "yes."

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Think of it like this: 

 

You're all familiar with Star Wars, yes? Perhaps, then, you know of the Empire's Death Star? A moon-sized spacecraft. Now, what if said moon unfolded itself to stand like a human. Wouldn't that be very much like the GSR?

 

Why do you scream hate at 40 million foot tall robots but not question the in-story legitimacy of a similarly-sized planet destroyer?

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Think of it like this: 

 

You're all familiar with Star Wars, yes? Perhaps, then, you know of the Empire's Death Star? A moon-sized spacecraft. Now, what if said moon unfolded itself to stand like a human. Wouldn't that be very much like the GSR?

 

Why do you scream hate at 40 million foot tall robots but not question the in-story legitimacy of a similarly-sized planet destroyer?

 

the death star was a space station, with a hugely powerful weapon, and was made to look intimidating, it's obvs mostly for show but still serves it's purpose, and, unlike Mata-Nui, the DS was not meant to land on the surface of any planet.

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Think of it like this: 

 

You're all familiar with Star Wars, yes? Perhaps, then, you know of the Empire's Death Star? A moon-sized spacecraft. Now, what if said moon unfolded itself to stand like a human. Wouldn't that be very much like the GSR?

 

Why do you scream hate at 40 million foot tall robots but not question the in-story legitimacy of a similarly-sized planet destroyer?

 

the death star was a space station, with a hugely powerful weapon, and was made to look intimidating, it's obvs mostly for show but still serves it's purpose, and, unlike Mata-Nui, the DS was not meant to land on the surface of any planet.

 

True, but does that mean the size is still ridiculous? Also, if the planet was too small for him to land, could he not just activate the Telescope from space and observe it from above?

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Think of it like this: 

 

You're all familiar with Star Wars, yes? Perhaps, then, you know of the Empire's Death Star? A moon-sized spacecraft. Now, what if said moon unfolded itself to stand like a human. Wouldn't that be very much like the GSR?

 

Why do you scream hate at 40 million foot tall robots but not question the in-story legitimacy of a similarly-sized planet destroyer?

 

the death star was a space station, with a hugely powerful weapon, and was made to look intimidating, it's obvs mostly for show but still serves it's purpose, and, unlike Mata-Nui, the DS was not meant to land on the surface of any planet.

 

True, but does that mean the size is still ridiculous? Also, if the planet was too small for him to land, could he not just activate the Telescope from space and observe it from above?

 

Except that it did land on a planet. Maybe the Death Star is not a good example. Transformers's Primus and Unicron are planet-sized entities that transform into giant robots. I'm not well versed into the world of Transformers so I have no clue if either have actually fought on a larger planet.

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I like Faber's 3150 km number better than 40 million feet, just because of the beauty of the Denmark comparison, but we have to remember that 3150 km is still 10 million feet, so it's not that far off to take Greg's number as canon.

 

Which it is. What was the point of this topic again?

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I like Faber's 3150 km number better than 40 million feet, just because of the beauty of the Denmark comparison, but we have to remember that 3150 km is still 10 million feet, so it's not that far off to take Greg's number as canon.

 

Which it is. What was the point of this topic again?

To shrink the GSR to a more reasonable size. Granted, Faber's number is still twice the size of the GSR I posited, but my calculations were also off, so... yeah. It's still only a quarter of the size of Greg's number.

 

And Shadow, the Death Star never had to deal with planetary gravity because it was a space station. If the GSR was like a Dyson sphere, a 40 million foot diameter would actually be pretty average. However, the GSR has to unfold and land on a planet. Not to mention, the Death Star was only about 100 kilometers in diameter, to my knowledge. That's 328,000 feet. A little smaller, wouldn't you agree?

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Point by point since my latest post:

-Yes, Greg has said he doesn't think spatially, but he also knows how to avoid the issue by not defining anything that requires it. And for many reasons explained in this and past (including recent) topics, it actually doesn't matter in this case either, since some "magic" is involved to enable something that big to function (fictional properties of protodermis). Mathwise, it's been shown that it actually does work out, and just barely.

-You'd have to ask him whether he did any math beyond picking a big number. I've said before I think he probably just picked one (but the point usually missed is that it was VALID to do so...), however, we have also seen people ask him about other numbers and he's talked about math he's done behind those, and usually it's pretty close to perfect when we check it.

The picking a number thing is actually also MORE of a problem with the concept size, which fails to take into account that it had already been established there were "continents" inside the giant. Faber was thinking artistically and generally conceptually -- Greg, though, knew some other factors, and that undoubtedly played a role in his choice, even if he didn't sit down and make calculations for it.

Who knows -- he MIGHT have seen this animation, which shows quite easily why a giant that small won't be well described as having continents in him! He's running over continents much larger than any part of his body!

 

Not to mention that Greg's own numbers contradict themselves.


Sigh. Here we go... Please be aware hasty assumptions like that have been debunked in many topics over the years, but we'll see. It's better to say "I'm not sure if or how the following things are consistent..." (or words to that effect) rather than assuming from the getgo that they aren't. :)

 

If the MU was really bigger than Earth, then why does Metru Nui (the largest city and hub of Matoran culture) only have 1,000 residents?


Yeah, that's not a contradiction. T1S answered it, I see; I'll read on to see if more needs said.

-The Matoran worked as maintenance workers, Sailor. (And support for them.) They didn't need to be running everything directly. It's obvious you think you've got new information here, but this has all been thought and talked out on here for years. :) (A normal reaction if you haven't followed S&T for a while, but FYI. :))

-Matoran being compared to cells is only an analogy.

-Not every number necessarily works out, but many of them do work out despite false rumors to the contrary. *reads on*

-Low population density is one of those myths; see above. You could say that about pretty much any fictional or real spaceship, honestly. Many have only one operator!

-Battle damage to planet has been covered earlier in the topic.

-The island of Mata Nui does not contradict the official size of the giant. I've explained this over and over and made an image for it, but out of time to repeat or dig up now. :P It does come out differently than typically assumed (or in one case animated), but neither of those things are actually problems (fans assume things all the time that weren't intended, and artistic portrayals often get such things wrong).

-No, the island doesn't need sized up.

-Problem with calling the continents "just big islands" is that these words are chosen in English for a human audience, and there was no hint of such a suggestion in any of Greg's answers telling us there were continents. Although I agree the continents are small (compared to things like Africa).

-Saying everything fits and then saying some needs pushed down to the leg islands is a counterproductive argument. :P Those islands were unpopulated.

-The leg islands were explored.

 

Building a world way larger than your inhabitants need is inefficient building.


Whoa there. The MU wasn't built for the needs of the Matoran! It was built to reform Spherus Magna and its size is based on that. The Matoran are there to maintain it. Undoubtedly machinery for space travel and reforming and various other things does need to take up a large amount of space besides just the maintenance workers' habitats.

 

The two major arguments that I see supporting 40 million feet are "the MU has continents" and "Greg said it and he knows best"


The latter is actually "Greg does decide the canon", in response to your wording, and Alvis's, that made it sound like you aren't aware of this. :) Doesn't mean his answers are always wisest -- but they are the canon ones. In other words, if you think you have a better idea, you should take it to him if you want it to be the canon one. :) Just saying yours is more canon doesn't make it true. (Though it's okay/good to have your own headcanon of course.)
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True, but does that mean the size is still ridiculous? Also, if the planet was too small for him to land, could he not just activate the Telescope from space and observe it from above?

 

Why in the first place ever land on planets, if you have such a telescope observation with which can basically replace landing?

 

Bonkles' worldbuilding is so horrible in many aspects.

Edited by Mjolnitor
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[...]

-The island of Mata Nui does not contradict the official size of the giant. I've explained this over and over and made an image for it, but out of time to repeat or dig up now. :P It does come out differently than typically assumed (or in one case animated), but neither of those things are actually problems (fans assume things all the time that weren't intended, and artistic portrayals often get such things wrong).

 

-No, the island doesn't need sized up.

[...]

 

I imagine personally that all of the GSR's face wasn't emerged from the sea and so only a part of his face needed to be hide by the camouflage system. Moreover, I think we can assume that the formation of the island was quite cataclysmic : waters of Aqua Magna was certainly VERY tumultous after the GC and the island could've been damaged, reducing its initial size. 

 

 

Why in the first place ever land on planets, if you have such a telescope observation with which can basically replace landing?

 

Perhaps only observe wasn't enough for Mata Nui's mission. He maybe had to analyze many things at the surface of planets, as local live forms or planet's composition/structure.

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Point by point again:

-Landing actually makes more sense if you think about it because his primary purpose was geological -- to study other alien worlds of the same type as Spherus Magna to try to get the reforming right. It makes sense this is better done with sensors ("eyes in the back of his head" :P) that are at rest on the land rather than whizzing around in space, probably seismic sensors like we use.

-FTR, that probably means if he DID encounter a small alien world (which means NOT like SM), he wouldn't need to land anyways. He might document its population from space though for his secondary mission.

-Right, only a part presumably needed to poke out of the water for his telescope-based observations (probably an indirect measurement on the planet by observing the stars to keep track of where it was in its orbit and spin etc.).

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*likes how everyone assumes that Greg is solely responsible for the 40-mil number and that it was not perhaps chosen by the story team which the vast majority of the BIONICLE fanbase seems to forget existed*

 

(If I'm wrong and there is official confirmation that Greg was the one who chose the number, like he confirmed that he was the one who chose Matoro to be the Toa to die, please correct me).

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*likes how everyone assumes that Greg is solely responsible for the 40-mil number and that it was not perhaps chosen by the story team which the vast majority of the BIONICLE fanbase seems to forget existed*

 

(If I'm wrong and there is official confirmation that Greg was the one who chose the number, like he confirmed that he was the one who chose Matoro to be the Toa to die, please correct me).

Oh, I've said as much. Twice, in fact. :P But everyone continues to assume it's all Greg's fault, just because it's one of the "nitty-gritty details" that doesn't relate to the overall direction of the story. So far, no one has confirmed that it was solely Greg's decision, and until such a thing happens, I say it's up in the air. :)

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I don't see how most of this discussion is relevant to the OP's theory. Greg has said that the Great Spirit Robot was forty million feet tall. You can either do math based on that number or just leave it be. If you do the latter, then you can just stop right there and continue enjoying the BIONICLE storyline as is. If you do the former, you have to deal with the fact that the GSR is forty million feet tall.

 

Now, the main point of the OP is that the word 'feet' in the measurement 'forty million feet' does not signify the same unit as the imperial/US customary foot which some countries continue to use, but that it is instead a fictional unit used within the BIONICLE universe. The OP then makes a couple of logical leaps in assuming that a hypothetical BIONICLE-universe foot has to have the same size relation to an average Glatorian's length as the imperial/US customary foot has to an average human being's length. This is not necessarily the case: the imperial/US customary foot is based on the distance between somebody's heel and big toe even though there are many more things one could measure about a foot than just that distance: the width of the heel, the height of the foot at the start of the big toe... You don't have to assume Glatorians have to be scaled down for your hypothetical foot to work, and that is even if it were based on their feet: for all we know your hypothetical foot could be based on the feet of Scarabax Beetles, or some ancient precursor race that we don't know about, or if that sounds too far-fetched, how about the feet of the Great Beings? We don't know.

 

However, the main problems with this idea are:

 

1) We have absolutely no evidence for the existence of this hypothetical foot unit in the BIONICLE universe. The universe already has units of distance (Bio/Kio/Mio) and while it is certainly not impossible for multiple units of distance to coexist, it's a bit of a stretch to assume that there is a 'foot' unit in use on Spherus Magna besides the units we already know about.

 

2) It makes Greg's quote on the size of the GSR a lot less informative. He was asked about the size of the GSR so that we could have an idea of the size of the GSR, not so that we could hear the size ratio between the GSR and some never-before-heard-of unit of distance that sounds suspiciously like a imperial/US customary unit. Imagine if he would've answered "Well I can tell you exactly how tall the GSR stands: it stands seventeen and a half Blablabla tall." What kind of an answer is that?

 

Edit: fixed BBC code error

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I don't see how most of this discussion is relevant to the OP's theory. Greg has said that the Great Spirit Robot was forty million feet tall. You can either do math based on that number or just leave it be. If you do the latter, then you can just stop right there and continue enjoying the BIONICLE storyline as is. If you do the former, you have to deal with the fact that the GSR is forty million feet tall.

 

Now, the main point of the OP is that the word 'feet' in the measurement 'forty million feet' does not signify the same unit as the imperial/US customary foot which some countries continue to use, but that it is instead a fictional unit used within the BIONICLE universe. The OP then makes a couple of logical leaps in assuming that a hypothetical BIONICLE-universe foot has to have the same size relation to an average Glatorian's length as the imperial/US customary foot has to an average human being's length. This is not necessarily the case: the imperial/US customary foot is based on the distance between somebody's heel and big toe even though there are many more things one could measure about a foot than just that distance: the width of the heel, the height of the foot at the start of the big toe... You don't have to assume Glatorians have to be scaled down for your hypothetical foot to work, and that is even if it were based on their feet: for all we know your hypothetical foot could be based on the feet of Scarabax Beetles, or some ancient precursor race that we don't know about, or if that sounds too far-fetched, how about the feet of the Great Beings? We don't know.

 

However, the main problems with this idea are:

 

1) We have absolutely no evidence for the existence of this hypothetical foot unit in the BIONICLE universe. The universe already has units of distance (Bio/Kio/Mio) and while it is certainly not impossible for multiple units of distance to coexist, it's a bit of a stretch to assume that there is a 'foot' unit in use on Spherus Magna besides the units we already know about.

 

2) It makes Greg's quote on the size of the GSR a lot less informative. He was asked about the size of the GSR so that we could have an idea of the size of the GSR, not so that we could hear the size ratio between the GSR and some never-before-heard-of unit of distance that sounds suspiciously like a imperial/US customary unit. Imagine if he would've answered "Well I can tell you exactly how tall the GSR stands: it stands seventeen and a half Blablabla tall." What kind of an answer is that?

 

Edit: fixed BBC code error

Actually, when Greg used "foot/feet" in his writing, it's because we (the readers) are more familiar with that term than with the bio/kio/mio system used in BIONICLE. Those are literal 12-inch feet we're talking about.

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Actually, when Greg used "foot/feet" in his writing, it's because we (the readers) are more familiar with that term than with the bio/kio/mio system used in BIONICLE. Those are literal 12-inch feet we're talking about.

You're most likely right, I was simply pointing out that the alternative is very unlikely.

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