My G1 to G2 connection theory

[fishers64]

2. The Great Beings' plan was that two giant robots needed to put the planet back together. Why didn't they bother to reconstruct the prototype--or even build yet another robot--to ensure that this would be successful? Did they just stop caring? In other words, why did they leave only one functional robot when they knew they needed two?

 

2) We don't know why they never finished the second robot -- or IF they never finished it. We simply know that Mata Nui, realizing he needed one, made use of what was there, which was the prototype. Remember, very little of this plan worked out the way the GBs had planned it. For all we know, the second robot exists somewhere and Mata Nui simply did not know that.

 

Theory: That the Toa, Ekimu and Makuta, and the island of Okoto are inside the Great Beings' giant robot that they made after Mata Nui left. 

 

Interestingly, this one actually has evidence, because the Okotoverse contains many things that a resourceful Great Being would have thought of after making the first giant robot, including, but not limited to:

 

- Overpowered Toa: We know that one of the Great Beings' greatest fears was that the Toa would go rogue and be too powerful for Spherus Magna to handle. The new robot solves this problem quite nicely by having the Toa be dependant on Masks for their powers that only the local Protectors know about. That way if the Toa go rogue and decide to kill them, they won't have the power to do so. 

 

In addition, the Protectors have powers of their own which can be used to defend against the Toa. Most importantly, the Toa are subject to amnesia after each mission. They appear routinely to check up on things, but the Protectors can summon them in an emergency just in case. 

 

-Innattentive Great Spirit: The robot of the Okotoverse is actually controlled by the Mask Makers through technology in the Ancient City. There are many islands in the universe which rotate control, with two Mask Makers for each city, and a number of others (the Protectors, who protect the mask makers, hence the name) from internal threats. 

 

-Biological Reproduction: The Red Star didn't work, so this is a better solution. Shorter lifespans were instuited to avoid overpopulation. The Mask Makers, however, have long lifespans and cannot reproduce, in order to make sure that knowledge is retained throughout the generations. 

 

And they would have more time to develop this, unlike Mata Nui which was a rush job. 

 

-Comets: The Toa canisters keep getting hiijacked by evil villains and Matoran. We really need to fix that outdated model. 

 

-Hexagon pillars in the city: Obviously, the GB who designed the ones for Metru Nui thought it was just the Muaka's pajamas and decided to replicate the design. 

 

And there you go. Time for this theory to get its GIANT ROBOT PUNCH in the face. Go!

[The 1st Shadow]

Congratulations, Fisher, on being the first person to provide a convincing argument for combining the generations. Seriously, I would consider this as viable. 

 

For the Toa, they could have set up a template for the six heroes that Artakha copied into the Toa Mata. The GBs could have copied it yet again into the Masters. Also saves them the trouble of naming them.

 

Some issues I have are as follows:

 

1) Greg's comment could mean anything. Remember the rough screenplay for the sequel to TLR? The Glatorian traveled through a huge valley that was filled with giant robot parts, even some nearly complete. This could mean that the robot is finished physically, but was never powered up or given a population.

 

2) You assume that there are multiple islands with multiple pairs of Mask Makers. That's something we don't have evidence of.

 

So, if you can find some way around that second issue I mentioned, this is a solid theory. Shadow approves!

[Regitnui]

If the two generations absolutely had to be linked, this would likely be the best way to do so. The giant robot thing better not be the point of the story like it was last time, though.

[Votuko]

I really like this. Perhaps the answer to why Mata Nui never knew of this Okoto Robot (OR?) is that it was still in an early stage of construction when he returned. The Shattering would have made resources scarce and disorganised the Great Beings, so conceivably they could have only finished Okoto's dome (and maybe some other domes) in that time. If Protodermis was scarce, it would make sense to work on the small, technical details like islands and inhabitants before the main structure of the robot.

 

So Okoto is perhaps in a dome lying in some distant construction yard on Spherus Magna?

 

The OR not being close to finished would also explain why it has no Great Spirit. (I would say the Mask Makers seem to fill the role of Makuta without being OP, with the reason for the change being obvious if the GBs were watching the GSR as they built this new robot.)

 

My question is: Who are the G2 Toa? Because we know Artakha made the Mata, and it seems convoluted to try and say that the Mata were based on GB plans which also made it into the new robot.

I think a better explanation is that the G2 Toa *are* the G1 Toa, and the Prophesy teleports them from wherever they are on Spherus Magna to the OR. Along the way, perhaps they are "repaired" by the OR's "Red Star-equivalent" systems to fit the newer Toa design with all the improvements fishers points out. (Plus the system "repairs" Lewa's Jungle control, because Air is not a valid element in the OR.) The comets are then simply a delivery method for objects entering the OR, and the six planets some sort of graphical representation of a locking mechanism.

 

P.S. What if the race of tall humanoids resurrected by Kulta were originally prototype OR inhabitants who were scrapped by the GBs after watching the trouble caused by tall humanoids in the GSR (ie Piraka, Barraki etc).

Edited July 15, 2015 by Votuko

[fishers64]

Some issues I have are as follows:

 

1) Greg's comment could mean anything. Remember the rough screenplay for the sequel to TLR? The Glatorian traveled through a huge valley that was filled with giant robot parts, even some nearly complete. This could mean that the robot is finished physically, but was never powered up or given a population.

 

2) You assume that there are multiple islands with multiple pairs of Mask Makers. That's something we don't have evidence of.

The easiest way out of this is to use 1 to explain 2 and say that Okoto was just part of the new robot that the GBs were constructing that never left. It's also consistent with the fact that Mata Nui was supposed to pilot robot #2. Ekimu and Makuta were creating masks to prepare the villagers for a mission that never happened. And it might explain the Temple of Time - it's a summoning point for villagers for when the mission of reuniting Spherus Magna was to happen.

 

The problem I have with that is that the Greg quote seemed to imply that the robot was wandering around in the universe somewhere. Also, to have a robot, I would think that you would need more than one island, and I think the GBs would realize that too. 

 

The other problem is if there was a functioning Okotobot on SM, Mata Nui would have used that instead of the prototype. Why wouldn't the Great Beings have told him that in their little infodump machine? Surely the orginal Mata Nui bot could have found the thing from outer space. The easiest explanation is that it is elsewhere. 

 

I really like this. Perhaps the answer to why Mata Nui never knew of this Okoto Robot (OR?) is that it was still in an early stage of construction when he returned. The Shattering would have made resources scarce and disorganised the Great Beings, so conceivably they could have only finished Okoto's dome (and maybe some other domes) in that time. If Protodermis was scarce, it would make sense to work on the small, technical details like islands and inhabitants before the main structure of the robot.

I don't think protodermis would have been too scarce. It's an artificial material. They may not have had the materials to make more though.

 

My question is: Who are the G2 Toa? Because we know Artakha made the Mata, and it seems convoluted to try and say that the Mata were based on GB plans which also made it into the new robot.

I think a better explanation is that the G2 Toa *are* the G1 Toa, and the Prophesy teleports them from wherever they are on Spherus Magna to the OR. Along the way, perhaps they are "repaired" by the OR's "Red Star-equivalent" systems to fit the newer Toa design with all the improvements fishers points out. (Plus the system "repairs" Lewa's Jungle control, because Air is not a valid element in the OR.) The comets are then simply a delivery method for objects entering the OR, and the six planets some sort of graphical representation of a locking mechanism.

I think it is more convoluted to "repair" the existing Toa than it is to make all new ones based on the template with improvements. There is a whole bunch of problems with that, like the Toa Mata not being able to protect the Spherus Magnans and a change of personality that doesn't make much sense.

 

P.S. What if the race of tall humanoids resurrected by Kulta were originally prototype OR inhabitants who were scrapped by the GBs after watching the trouble caused by tall humanoids in the GSR (ie Piraka, Barraki etc).

It's possible.

[Aanchir]

I wouldn't consider any of these things you mention "evidence". After all, they all assume that the second robot was built with mechanisms in place to avoid the flaws of the first robot... which also means assuming that it's the second robot sequentially, not just one of two created more or less simultaneously. After all, if all of these flaws had been apparent before the Mata Nui robot had been activated, and there was time enough to plan, build, and populate an entirely new robot without those flaws, why send the first robot away on its mission without making those same corrections to it? I don't see how the Great Beings could ever have had "more time to develop this", considering that we know the Shattering took place soon after the Mata Nui robot was sent away on its mission.

The bit about the hexagonal columns in the arena is meaningless, because the Coliseum on Metru Nui was not even constructed by the Great Beings (it was constructed by the Matoran, under Helryx's leadership), so there's no way the same being had a hand in designing both arenas. Also, making the Toa in the second robot weaker should not have been a concern, because Marendar was already created before the Matoran Universe was sent away on its mission, and took considerably less time to create — so if for whatever reason he would not have been effective against the second robot's Toa, and the Great Beings had more time than they had to build the first robot, they would have had plenty of time to create a second Marendar. Also, the Protectors having powers of their own is really no different from the Matoran Universe, in which the Turaga had powers of their own, so there's no reason to think it was a decision made to compensate for a flaw in the previous universe.
 

There's also the more obvious issue that the new Bionicle story is a reboot, and the creators themselves have insisted that should be enough put an end to all speculation about its connection to the previous story. Or to put it differently, you're not jumping onto a bandwagon — you're jumping onto the shattered remains of a bandwagon that has already rolled over the edge of a cliff into a ravine.

[Votuko]

I think it is more convoluted to "repair" the existing Toa than it is to make all new ones based on the template with improvements. There is a whole bunch of problems with that, like the Toa Mata not being able to protect the Spherus Magnans and a change of personality that doesn't make much sense.

I see where you're coming from, but personally I like to think that the "timeless heroes" phrase is a hint. We have no evidence to suggest that Artakha didn't just invent the Mata using the Mask of Creation, in which case there would be no template.

 

Depending on when the Prophesy takes place in relation to the G1 story (in this theory), the Mata may have already finished their duties on Spherus Magna (and may have collaborated with the writers of the Prophesy). Assuming there will have been some sort of GB War before G2's events, the Mata may have been upgraded to have more SM-suitable elements and shinier armour (gold denoting military rank?) etc. for any number of reasons, so that difference is somewhat trivial.

 

Slight personality changes are to be expected, because we already know the G2 Toa have no memories. And anyone with total amnesia is bound to act differently, because your memories of experiences shape who you are. (Maybe G2 Gali doesn't remember the time Helryx told her that her jokes are awful. )

[believe victims]

I think one thing that no one has mentioned yet is that the new Bionicle story shows a whole solar system of planets that they send their message to. In other words, they can see those planets from the island, which kinda precludes being in a domed universe.

 

So yeah, in addition to the above, it's kinda hard to consider the planets aligning when you cannot actually see them.

[Votuko]

I think one thing that no one has mentioned yet is that the new Bionicle story shows a whole solar system of planets that they send their message to. In other words, they can see those planets from the island, which kinda precludes being in a domed universe.

 

So yeah, in addition to the above, it's kinda hard to consider the planets aligning when you cannot actually see them.

Toa stars seen from within the GSR didn't preclude being in a domed universe.

On top of that, the planets seen from Okoto are ridiculously large, which actually makes them more likely to be artificial. (Plus, are we supposed to believe that each Toa came from a different actual planet, yet arrived at Okoto simultaneously?)

[Jobber]

 

I think one thing that no one has mentioned yet is that the new Bionicle story shows a whole solar system of planets that they send their message to. In other words, they can see those planets from the island, which kinda precludes being in a domed universe.

 

So yeah, in addition to the above, it's kinda hard to consider the planets aligning when you cannot actually see them.

Toa stars seen from within the GSR didn't preclude being in a domed universe.

On top of that, the planets seen from Okoto are ridiculously large, which actually makes them more likely to be artificial. (Plus, are we supposed to believe that each Toa came from a different actual planet, yet arrived at Okoto simultaneously?)

 

But what about the Mask of Time? I'm thinking the mask 'plucked' the Toa from different time-periods (i.e. different planets).

Edited July 15, 2015 by Minty Green

[Lyichir]

 

I think one thing that no one has mentioned yet is that the new Bionicle story shows a whole solar system of planets that they send their message to. In other words, they can see those planets from the island, which kinda precludes being in a domed universe.

 

So yeah, in addition to the above, it's kinda hard to consider the planets aligning when you cannot actually see them.

Toa stars seen from within the GSR didn't preclude being in a domed universe.

On top of that, the planets seen from Okoto are ridiculously large, which actually makes them more likely to be artificial. (Plus, are we supposed to believe that each Toa came from a different actual planet, yet arrived at Okoto simultaneously?)

 

Yeah, but the difference is the Toa stars were seen from the ground. The planets were shown in an overhead shot, which precludes them from just being holes in the dome like Spirit Stars.

 

But what about the Mask of Time? I'm thinking the mask 'plucked' the Toa from different time-periods (i.e. different planets).

I still think there's a strong possibility that the Mask of Time's involvement has nothing to do with time travel.

 

Sure, it'd be nice if the new Mask of Time could do things like that. But we didn't see anything like that—what we saw was a ritual, a planetary alignment, and the Toa descending from the heavens. Those observations suggest that the new Mask of Time's powers might not be that different from the old one. If you had a prophecy that heroes would arrive to save the day when the planets aligned, and you needed heroes ASAP, making that planetary alignment happen ahead of schedule would seem like a logical choice—particularly if you had a mask which could change the flow of time around it so that time on the island moved much slower than the time in the rest of the universe.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Lyichir

[believe victims]

 

I think one thing that no one has mentioned yet is that the new Bionicle story shows a whole solar system of planets that they send their message to. In other words, they can see those planets from the island, which kinda precludes being in a domed universe.

 

So yeah, in addition to the above, it's kinda hard to consider the planets aligning when you cannot actually see them.

Toa stars seen from within the GSR didn't preclude being in a domed universe.

On top of that, the planets seen from Okoto are ridiculously large, which actually makes them more likely to be artificial. (Plus, are we supposed to believe that each Toa came from a different actual planet, yet arrived at Okoto simultaneously?)

 

 

Spirit stars inside the Matoran Universe were electrical impulses by the Great Spirit Robot's systems, while those outside the universe are projected from the Red Star.

 

Spirit stars were artificial, not actual stars.

 

Mata Nui was ridiculously large. Why is something being ridiculous only now cause for questioning it? The point is, the planets are shown as though they were real planets around a real sun. (They couldn't exactly align if they weren't!) And the villagers can see these planets, so they aren't within a domed universe.

 

(I also never claimed the Toa actually came from those planets, merely that they exist. "When the stars align" is an age-old marker for an important event. The carving merely shows cause and effect: when the stars align, heroes will come.)

 

Sometimes an island is just an island, guys. There isn't always a giant robot underneath. (Or surrounding it, I suppose, in this case.)

[fishers64]

I think one thing that no one has mentioned yet is that the new Bionicle story shows a whole solar system of planets that they send their message to. In other words, they can see those planets from the island, which kinda precludes being in a domed universe.

 

So yeah, in addition to the above, it's kinda hard to consider the planets aligning when you cannot actually see them.

 

Yeah, but the difference is the Toa stars were seen from the ground. The planets were shown in an overhead shot, which precludes them from just being holes in the dome like Spirit Stars.

 

 

Spirit stars were artificial, not actual stars.

 

Mata Nui was ridiculously large. Why is something being ridiculous only now cause for questioning it? The point is, the planets are shown as though they were real planets around a real sun. (They couldn't exactly align if they weren't!) And the villagers can see these planets, so they aren't within a domed universe.

 

(I also never claimed the Toa actually came from those planets, merely that they exist. "When the stars align" is an age-old marker for an important event. The carving merely shows cause and effect: when the stars align, heroes will come.)

 

 

 

Hmm. 

 

I'm not sure this follows. The artwork on top clearly shows the planets against a solid background. They could just be massive computer holograms on the inside dome like the spirit stars.

 

The carving inside the cave was just what somebody did. It looks like a solar system drawing - could have been painted in the cavern by the GBs as part of their illusion. Or maybe the Okotans did it in some ancient time. Whoever did it must have been pretty smart - we didn't know about heliocentricity for thousands of years. 

 

There's also the more obvious issue that the new Bionicle story is a reboot, and the creators themselves have insisted that should be enough put an end to all speculation about its connection to the previous story.

I'd like to see a source for this. I've seen nothing to say that there is no connection whatsoever, just that it's a reboot.

 

I wouldn't consider any of these things you mention "evidence". After all, they all assume that the second robot was built with mechanisms in place to avoid the flaws of the first robot... which also means assuming that it's the second robot sequentially, not just one of two created more or less simultaneously.

 

After all, if all of these flaws had been apparent before the Mata Nui robot had been activated, and there was time enough to plan, build, and populate an entirely new robot without those flaws, why send the first robot away on its mission without making those same corrections to it? I don't see how the Great Beings could ever have had "more time to develop this", considering that we know the Shattering took place soon after the Mata Nui robot was sent away on its mission.

To be clear, this theory assumes that the second robot was attempted to be constructed after the Shattering. My viewpoint on this is that the Mata Nui robot had to be sent to collect the data needed to fix the planet, and it had to be finished before the Shattering happened in order to have enough time to collect the data.

 

The second robot wouldn't have to be ready until Mata Nui's return 100,000 years in the future, thus the Great Beings assumed that they would have enough time to develop that one later.

 

This theory doesn't decide whether they did or didn't entirely - that will be a theory for another day - it just says that either a half-completed robot or fully-completed robot houses the Okotoverse. I thought a fully-completed robot made more sense when I wrote the theory, but the unfinished idea has points in its favor as well and I'm willing to go with it.

 

The bit about the hexagonal columns in the arena is meaningless, because the Coliseum on Metru Nui was not even constructed by the Great Beings (it was constructed by the Matoran, under Helryx's leadership), so there's no way the same being had a hand in designing both arenas.

But the Matoran weren't the crafts-designers of Metru Nui's early architecture. I don't think they were sapient enough for that at that point. Unless the Coliseum was built later, in which case scratch that.

 

Also, making the Toa in the second robot weaker should not have been a concern, because Marendar was already created before the Matoran Universe was sent away on its mission, and took considerably less time to create — so if for whatever reason he would not have been effective against the second robot's Toa, and the Great Beings had more time than they had to build the first robot, they would have had plenty of time to create a second Marendar.

The Great Beings are innovators that always think ahead. Any innovator will tell you that having a second system to fix a problem that a first system creates is less efficient than fixing a problem at the source.

 

For example, air scrubbers in coal-fired power plants are less efficient and cost effective than solar-powered power plants. The coal plant causes pollution, which the scubbers fix; there's your second system, whereas the solar mirrors don't need that second system.

 

May not be the best analogy. Some pollution from the coal plant might escape the scubbers - an occasional rogue Toa might escape Marendar. Plus all the scared Agori from all the dead bodies and innocent Toa being killed. Marendar is a messy, ugly solution with a lot of collateral damage. Why not have something better?

 

Also, the Protectors having powers of their own is really no different from the Matoran Universe, in which the Turaga had powers of their own, so there's no reason to think it was a decision made to compensate for a flaw in the previous universe.

Fair point. 

[The 1st Shadow]

 

The problem I have with that is that the Greg quote seemed to imply that the robot was wandering around in the universe somewhere. Also, to have a robot, I would think that you would need more than one island, and I think the GBs would realize that too. 

 

The other problem is if there was a functioning Okotobot on SM, Mata Nui would have used that instead of the prototype. Why wouldn't the Great Beings have told him that in their little infodump machine? Surely the orginal Mata Nui bot could have found the thing from outer space. The easiest explanation is that it is elsewhere. 

 

To have a robot, you don't necessarily need islands. The Prototype gave no evidence of domes, even though it didn't work. Who said a second Robot had to be as massive as MN? Just has to be big enough to do the job of guiding planet fragments back into place by manipulating gravity.

-----

Who said it was functioning? Or that MN would have even known where to look for one? He found the stabilized power source for Bot#2 in the Valley, so that indicates that if it was actually built, it was never activated. If it was, then why was the "magic battery" still there?

 

Plus, it's a big planet. We know that the GSR was built at some faraway facility, away from the Agori villages. Even if he knew a fully-built robot existed, perhaps the Prototype was closer? Since the planet's so dang huge, the distance to travel could have taken him longer than he had time for.

[believe victims]

The artwork on top clearly shows the planets against a solid background.

 

No it doesn't. It shows planets shaded as though they were right up against the Temple of Time (which is still an error, I think.) Those aren't shadows falling on a solid background, they're what it looks like to see light shine on a sphere like this. There's less light behind the sphere because, well, the dang sphere is in the way.

 

I'll admit, I'm not sure what's going on with the shading here, because the fade on the planets makes it very clear they're supposed to be far off in space, yet the light shining from the Temple of Time is reflecting off them. Put it up to artistic license I guess? If I can't use Mata Nui clearly being visibly smaller than the moon he's on as proof he's not enormous, then I don't see why I can't cast doubt on the veracity of this screenshot.

[Votuko]

@Lyichir

Yeah, but the difference is the Toa stars were seen from the ground. The planets were shown in an overhead shot, which precludes them from just being holes in the dome like Spirit Stars.

Spirit Stars are not holes; they are projections / images like every other "star" inside the GSR.

I'm not sure why leaving the ground would reveal the deception either. As long as you don't hit your head on the dome, you could look around from as high as you like and still see the planet projections if that is what they are.

 

@Dina

Mata Nui was ridiculously large. Why is something being ridiculous only now cause for questioning it? The point is, the planets are shown as though they were real planets around a real sun. (They couldn't exactly align if they weren't!) And the villagers can see these planets, so they aren't within a domed universe.

I pointed out their size because you suggested that they look like they are part of a solar system, and used that as evidence for them being real planets. But judging by their size in the sky, they are too massive and / or too close to Okoto to be in anything resembling a stable, real-life solar system, so I'm just wondering what criteria you use.

Perhaps I wasn't clear (I'm often not ), but I was saying that the planets may be images on a dome that surrounds Okoto. Those images could simulate the view of a real solar system if necessary, but don't need to. We just know that they line up sometimes - the rest of the time, they could travel in zigzags or trace out giant Kanohi shapes, for all we know.

 

@All

What I wonder is how the two frames in the lower image in fishers' post (#13) relate to each other. Are the planets supposed to form an actual line in the sky above Okoto at some point, or is the Prophesy drawing figurative, or is there a line of planets but only when viewed from a(n implied) vantage point elsewhere in the (simulated) solar system?

[believe victims]

I was saying that the planets may be images on a dome that surrounds Okoto

 

Well, if there's one thing we can rule out from the screens fishers posted, it's that; light shone on them as though they were spheres, not flat images on domes.

 

I mean, the light shouldn't have been shining on them at all, but I think we can rule out images on a dome.

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

Not a bad theory. Probably the best one I've read. Convincing enough and sensible... Guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

-NotS

[Votuko]

 

 

 

I was saying that the planets may be images on a dome that surrounds Okoto

 

 

Well, if there's one thing we can rule out from the screens fishers posted, it's that; light shone on them as though they were spheres, not flat images on domes.

 

I mean, the light shouldn't have been shining on them at all, but I think we can rule out images on a dome.

Huh?

You're saying that because the planets were drawn to look 3D, they can't be a 2D image of a 3D object? Even though the scene from the animation itself is a 2D image of 3D planets, according to what you say?

 

Or do you mean specifically that the Temple of Time appearing to illuminate the planets in a 3D manner means that they must be 3D? I interpret that image as implying that Okoto's (simulated) sun is below the horizon, but in line with the planets as you would expect from an "alignment". That lights the planets from below and, by coincidence, gives the impression that the Temple is responsible.

 

Alternatively, if that particular lighting source really is intended to be from the Temple, then it is an animation error / artistic licence and doesn't work as evidence either way. (The Temple should not be bright enough to illuminate objects that distance away; there would need to be additional lighting from the sun, which is off-screen etc.) A sky-simulating dome has yet to be ruled out.

[believe victims]

The shadows on some of the planets are slanting down; the light source can't be below the horizon.

 

And if we are not to accept the animations' depiction as canon, then the burden of proof is still on the side of "they're on a dome". So far, we have absolutely nothing to suggest anything in this topic is remotely true of the new story. Meanwhile, we have carvings of planets seen from above, suggesting actual planets orbiting an actual star, which is something in canon you already need to work against while having nothing for your side.

 

In fact, it's already working against something we already know: this story is a reboot. A true reboot, by the actual definition of the word. Taken from the top. No. Connection.

[fishers64]

C'mon guys, I already get that some folks on here don't want a connection between G1 and G2 story. And I already know who you all are, so it's not like you have to step forward and tell me that you don't want it every time someone puts forth a connection theory.

 

I also happen to know that the odds of a connection ever happening are rather low, so relax. I have a good guess on the odds of this one. But if a connection were to happen, I think this is the most plausible one given Greg's quote and the features of the island I just outlined.

 

And those features of the island do exist; my theory is just an attempt to explain why they do. You are free to dislike my explanation as you see fit, but I do not believe we have enough evidence at this point to rule it false or prove it true.

 

As for the reboot thing, I watched the NYCC video just like every single one of you did, and no connection was specifically ruled out. The words "there is no connection between these two stories" were no uttered. Back during that time the debate was between a direct timeskip continuation and a reboot. The possibility of entering the story from very different place, a practical reboot that would be connected later, was never discussed. I thought it was a viable possibility but had my own reasons for not bringing it up.

 

Now that I have brought it up, it is the best of both worlds. It introduces new fans to a "old" story's end from the prespective of an entirely new one. Nobody has to know about the other story because it is just part of this one.

 

Will it happen?

 

Eh.

 

But in my judgement, it is a possibility, one that needs highlighted. I think some of you making the "I want it to be true, therefore it is" fallacy here, which is the oldest debate fallacy in the book. I would prefer to see something a bit more objective on probability here instead of theowing the "IMPOSSIBLE" stamp at it.

 

(Which by the way, is another debate fallacy that is ancient as Ghenghis Khan; the Chinese assumed that it was impossible for the Mongols to get through their wall, which turned out to be a bad idea. Or, for a more modern example, assuming that the Allies couldn't land at Normandy turned out to be a stupid mistake.)

 

As for the planets, I'm not sure that we can rule out the dome theory based on them. Methinks they might be a bit too close to the Okoto planet if they were real and crash into it due to gravity. That whole picture of those planets screams "fake" to me, though, so I'm not sure it can be used as admissable evidence for or against the theory.

 

@T1S: The sequence in JE where MN gets his memories back seems to suggest that he didn't know the other bot had been finished, if it had - he doesn't know that it exists. He assumes that the GBs didn't do it at all. He didn't know.

 

Now MN had been at Mata Nui in a robot than was designed to scan planets. If there was another robot on that planet, those sensors would have picked it up. And part of his job was to look for it when he got back. He wouldn't have missed it. He would have known. And I think it would have made the volcano, which seemed to be a robot memory core backup. Either that or it was some GB thing, and they would have known and told him, since he was supposed to go get the thing and revive the planet using it.

[The 1st Shadow]

@T1S: The sequence in JE where MN gets his memories back seems to suggest that he didn't know the other bot had been finished, if it had - he doesn't know that it exists. He assumes that the GBs didn't do it at all. He didn't know.

 

Now MN had been at Mata Nui in a robot than was designed to scan planets. If there was another robot on that planet, those sensors would have picked it up. And part of his job was to look for it when he got back. He wouldn't have missed it. He would have known. And I think it would have made the volcano, which seemed to be a robot memory core backup. Either that or it was some GB thing, and they would have known and told him, since he was supposed to go get the thing and revive the planet using it.

Yeah, I said that. Or, implied it, I suppose. So, even if he did know about it, the Prototype would still have been the more reasonable choice, even if its tech wasn't up to par.

 

The volcano-thing was a GB laboratory, one of many. The computer he located and read his "memories" from was one of the systems the GBs used to record their plans and designs, just like we would use computers. The tech responded to the presence of another of the GB's creations.

 

But the point here is that if the 2nd bot was finished, and Teridax had never switched with MN before his time, yes, he would have found it almost immediately. However, MN was in a mask. And I was giving an option of what might have happened IF the robot were completed. Since it wasn't, the GBs never recorded it, and so MN couldn't have gained the information of its location from there.

 

So, most likely, the robot was never finished, now that I recall that bit of info.

[fishers64]

 

@T1S: The sequence in JE where MN gets his memories back seems to suggest that he didn't know the other bot had been finished, if it had - he doesn't know that it exists. He assumes that the GBs didn't do it at all. He didn't know.

 

Now MN had been at Mata Nui in a robot than was designed to scan planets. If there was another robot on that planet, those sensors would have picked it up. And part of his job was to look for it when he got back. He wouldn't have missed it. He would have known. And I think it would have made the volcano, which seemed to be a robot memory core backup. Either that or it was some GB thing, and they would have known and told him, since he was supposed to go get the thing and revive the planet using it.

Yeah, I said that. Or, implied it, I suppose. So, even if he did know about it, the Prototype would still have been the more reasonable choice, even if its tech wasn't up to par.

 

The volcano-thing was a GB laboratory, one of many. The computer he located and read his "memories" from was one of the systems the GBs used to record their plans and designs, just like we would use computers. The tech responded to the presence of another of the GB's creations.

 

But the point here is that if the 2nd bot was finished, and Teridax had never switched with MN before his time, yes, he would have found it almost immediately. However, MN was in a mask. And I was giving an option of what might have happened IF the robot were completed. Since it wasn't, the GBs never recorded it, and so MN couldn't have gained the information of its location from there.

 

So, most likely, the robot was never finished, now that I recall that bit of info.

 

Mata Nui was at Bara Magna for awhile before Makuta crashed him. He would need to be there to fix the planet core, and he would need to do that before the crash, since he couldn't do it after. So I think he would have known then. 

 

It's possible that the volcano thing didn't have it though. It seemed to have the rest of the information the robot had, though, seeing as Mata Nui was able to fix SM without trouble. And I think the GBs would have arranged for a way to record the information Mata Nui gathered and analyze it, due to their curiosity about other planets and the like. 

 

So that's why I said it was more likely that the second robot was active and not on SM, as that situation seems to satisfy Greg's quote the best. 

[The 1st Shadow]

Mata Nui was at Bara Magna for awhile before Makuta crashed him. He would need to be there to fix the planet core, and he would need to do that before the crash, since he couldn't do it after. So I think he would have known then. 

 

 

Okay, you lost me here. What? MN was flying through space towards the shattered Spherus Magna when Terry's virus crashed him. We can see in most media that the fragments were fairly far away from each other, not just a quick jump. So, MN was still in flight when he blacked out, then crashed into the Endless Ocean of Aqua Magna. This caused him to loose a lot of his memory. Even if his sensors had located a second bot, there's no way he would have remembered it.

[fishers64]

 

Mata Nui was at Bara Magna for awhile before Makuta crashed him. He would need to be there to fix the planet core, and he would need to do that before the crash, since he couldn't do it after. So I think he would have known then. 

 

 

Okay, you lost me here. What? MN was flying through space towards the shattered Spherus Magna when Terry's virus crashed him. We can see in most media that the fragments were fairly far away from each other, not just a quick jump. So, MN was still in flight when he blacked out, then crashed into the Endless Ocean of Aqua Magna. This caused him to loose a lot of his memory. Even if his sensors had located a second bot, there's no way he would have remembered it.

 

It was confirmed by Greg answers that Mata Nui was on Bara Magna during the 2004 storyline. That would have at least been a few days. 

Edited July 17, 2015 by fishers64

[The 1st Shadow]

 

 

Mata Nui was at Bara Magna for awhile before Makuta crashed him. He would need to be there to fix the planet core, and he would need to do that before the crash, since he couldn't do it after. So I think he would have known then. 

 

 

Okay, you lost me here. What? MN was flying through space towards the shattered Spherus Magna when Terry's virus crashed him. We can see in most media that the fragments were fairly far away from each other, not just a quick jump. So, MN was still in flight when he blacked out, then crashed into the Endless Ocean of Aqua Magna. This caused him to loose a lot of his memory. Even if his sensors had located a second bot, there's no way he would have remembered it.

 

It was confirmed by Greg answers that Mata Nui was on Bara Magna during the 2004 storyline. That would have at least been a few days. 

 

When was that confirmed? This is the first I've heard of it. 

[Aanchir]

 

There's also the more obvious issue that the new Bionicle story is a reboot, and the creators themselves have insisted that should be enough put an end to all speculation about its connection to the previous story.

I'd like to see a source for this. I've seen nothing to say that there is no connection whatsoever, just that it's a reboot.

 

 

Source. At 1:55, Steen Lindeberg says "let me start out by saying, it's a reboot. So, all the talks and all the speculations, put them aside. It's a reboot..." That doesn't sound to me like he's saying "It's a reboot, but that could mean ANYTHING. Speculate away!" In his eyes, it being a reboot should be enough to answer all the remaining questions about how it connects to the old story.

 

And as Greg Farshtey says here, "This is NEW BIONICLE ... it is not 'stealth old BIONICLE.'" Granted, he is not in charge of the new story, but even before any reboot had been announced, he was adamant that if he were in charge of reviving Bionicle he would absolutely NOT connect the old story to the new story, and that it would not make sense for LEGO to do so either.

 

For that matter, unlike many fans, Greg Farshtey has not waffled or minced words on the meaning of the word "reboot". As he said here, "What it would be if it came back is just my speculation. But a reboot is a reboot -- it normally does not relate to the past version. The Andrew Garfield Spider-Man movies are not taking place in the same "movie reality" as the Tobey Maguire ones did. The New 52 comic stories, although featuring the same characters as DC has always had, are not considered to be a part of the past comics' reality. That's basically the point of a reboot."

 

If Greg Farshtey, one of the writers most invested in the G1 Bionicle story, doesn't think it makes any sense for that story and the rebooted G2 story to occupy the same reality, how does it make any sense to assume that the new story team feels differently?

 

I think some of you making the "I want it to be true, therefore it is" fallacy here, which is the oldest debate fallacy in the book.

 

The same fallacy you and every other theorist trying to link the two generations against every indication to the contrary is making, you mean?

 

No, nobody has ever said expressly "there is no connection between the G1 story and the G2 story", and chances are nobody ever will. Why? Because the G2 story is inspired by the G1 story. That, in and of itself, is a connection. However, to assume any connection MORE than that "inspiration" demonstrates a lack of critical thinking. Greg Farshtey and Steen Lindeberg's quotes both carry the implicit message that "the new story is a reboot" should be enough to put an end to all speculation of an in-universe link between G1 and G2.

 

That, on top of the fact that making a new story aimed at new fans share its reality with a ten-year-long storyline that ended four years ago makes no sense at all from a marketing or storytelling perspective. Greg may not be a flawless writer, but he knows enough about storytelling to recognize this. You're right, it's not impossible. It just requires assuming that the creators of the Bionicle reboot are incompetent storytellers and that they intend to defy the wishes of the very writer whose work they are so desperate to link with the new story.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Aanchir

[fishers64]

 

 

 

Mata Nui was at Bara Magna for awhile before Makuta crashed him. He would need to be there to fix the planet core, and he would need to do that before the crash, since he couldn't do it after. So I think he would have known then.

Okay, you lost me here. What? MN was flying through space towards the shattered Spherus Magna when Terry's virus crashed him. We can see in most media that the fragments were fairly far away from each other, not just a quick jump. So, MN was still in flight when he blacked out, then crashed into the Endless Ocean of Aqua Magna. This caused him to loose a lot of his memory. Even if his sensors had located a second bot, there's no way he would have remembered it.

 

It was confirmed by Greg answers that Mata Nui was on Bara Magna during the 2004 storyline. That would have at least been a few days.

 

When was that confirmed? This is the first I've heard of it.

 

 

Just for the sake of pointing out: 

 

16.- When Teridax used the virus on Mata Nui he fall on Aqua Magna but why was he flying around it, was he going to reunite the three worlds and everything got ruined because of Teridax?

 

 

16) He was on his way back to Bara Magna at the time

 

Note this is also in concurrence with other Greg Answers that indicate that Teridax's attack was not instantaneous - it took time to pull off. Mata Nui could have actually gotten to Bara Magna before the attack fully got him. However, I can see why this would be interpreted as he "just getting back" when he crashed, with no time for his sensors to scan anything. 

 

3) In the Dark Mirror dimension (which is said that time passes at the same rate as the main universe), Mata Nui never crashed, so he never slept for the 1001 years. Doesn't that mean that he should have completed his mission by then, rendering the MU body useless? So how come there were still inhabitants in the MU robot in that dimension?

 

3) How do you know he did not take longer than 100,000 years to do his surveying in that universe? Or that he was not just about to get to Bara Magna when that story took place?

* * *

3) Overall, the Aqua-Bota-Bara Magna system makes sense. Yet there I am confused about when Mata Nui crashed on Aqua Magna. Was he returning to heal the planetary system (after researching the Universe)When he became unconcius?

 

3) Yes

* * * 

4. Why did Mata Nui crash on Aqua Magna? I mean, did he (consciously or unconsciously) change course to the remains of Spherus Magna when he was attacked by Makuta, or did he just happen to be near Aqua Magna when he finally went unconscious? 

 

4) The latter. He was on his way back to Bara Magna when the virus struck, and he crashed on Aqua Magna.

 

I still remember the 2004 quote from somewhere, but it seems strongly contradicted by these more recent quotes. Therefore, I will concede that there could have been an incomplete robot elsewhere on the planet somewhere that Mata Nui would be unable to find.

 

Case closed.