Jump to content

Bionicle Concludes Again


Recommended Posts

As I see, most of you blame me for being one-dimensional, disrespectful to others' opinions and blah blah blah... Well, pehaps, I was too emotional and insulted you somehow. I apologize. In my homeland we have a bit different mentality, and some things that you may find offensive are considered normal in our culture. 

 

Let's start anew! You tell me, what you like in G2 and why, and I'll try to tell what I dislike and why. We'll have a gentle conversation and respect each other :)

Well, while I greatly appreciate you for single-handedly starting the Protestant Reformation, I do feel the need to point out a few moments, among a great many bad moments, G2 gave us that I feel G1 did not:

 

1. The ending to the 2015 animations, where the Toa kept fighting even after losing their masks to give Ekimu enough time to finish his weapon and defeat Kulta. It was incredibly surprising and welcomed to me that BIONICLE, after pushing the Masks of Power so much as the source of the Toa's power, made it their dedication to keep fighting even stripped of their physical powers that won the day. The idea of a Toa continuing the fight after being stripped of his mask or elemental powers in G1 was unthinkable.

 

2. Basically the entirety of ''Battle of the Mask Makers''. My favorite part of it is seeing Agarak, the Protector of Jungle interact with his family. It's truly unlike anything G1 did, would have, or could have given us. For the first time, the prospect of Makuta taking over is given real weight by the thought of what would happen to Agarak's wife and child. (Which leads to a touching moment where Ekimu gives Agarak the "special mission" of spending time with them before he confronts Makuta). The climax of the story, where we see tears in Ekimu's eyes as he knocks the MoUP from Makuta's face, is heart-wrenching as well.

 

3. Everything about the character of Umarak in JtO. As I've said before, he's the only lesser villain treated with dignity by the story, who creates with the information available to him a good plan to betray the greater villain (Makuta), and only fails due to factors he couldn't foresee (the Mask of Control taking him over), rather than arrogance. Some people think that Umarak should have been fleshed out more, but personally, I felt like Umarak was given sufficiently strong characterization as cunning, self-serving, and patient before being transformed, and spending more time with him would have just reinforced what we were already told. Honestly, I feel like his transformation to Destroyer was a downgrade, because now he's stripped of his greatest tool; his mind.

 

Again, most of G2 I have not listed here did not satisfy me, but these rare moments did make the two years we got worth getting, in my opinion at least, and I'm disappointed we won't be getting more, and appreciate LEGO for giving us a little good with the bad.

  • Upvote 5

"You are an absolute in these uncertain times. Your past is forgotten, and your
future is an empty book. You must find your own destiny, my brave adventurer.
"
-- Turaga Nokama

nichijou2.jpg

Click here to visit my library!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Without Greg continuing the original story, I couldn't stay interested. I bought Onua, but that was it.

I've seen a lot of comments expressing wishes that it were a continuation of the old story, but even Greg himself said years ago that if he were in charge of Bionicle's return he wouldn't do it as a continuation due to what a burden ten years of backstory would be for new fans. It's kind of weird to me that so many people who think the Bionicle story was/would be strongest under his direction aren't prepared to take him at his word on that matter.

 

It kind of reminds me of how Bill Murray and Dan Aykroyd both loved the idea of an all-female Ghostbusters movie and thought the women who were cast were extremely funny and talented, and yet hundreds of Internet dudebros still somehow managed to ramble on and on about how the new Ghostbusters would be lame, unfunny, and disrespectful to the comic genius of the original cast. "Yeah, such-and-such was a brilliant and irreplaceable part of this beloved franchise, but what do they know about what's best for it?"

 

I don't mean this to equate your ambivalence about Bionicle G2 to the nerd rage of a bunch of cynical whiners. But it's just interesting how often fans of a franchise think extremely highly of its creators, and ignore or dismiss when those creators would rather see a new and different take on it than a continuation of their own previous work.

 

After a little bit of soul-searching, let me revise that:

 

I miss Greg.

I miss having a story told to the fans directly by the storyteller. An author who on a daily basis answered EVERY piece of fanmail and story questions people sent to him.

I miss looking forward to online serials every month.

 

Greg could have very competently worked on the G2 story. It could have been a completely separate universe, built from scratch, but with Greg writing it it, the characters would have retained their personalities that I knew for over a decade.

Whether or not LEGO will ever admit it, Greg was THE reason for the staying power of G1.

The original team behind MNOLG, the canister CDs, and 3D animation were the hook, but the stories and characters are what we stayed for.

  • Upvote 1
qs30495.jpg
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly, I'm conflicted.

 

On one hand, I wasn't really into the story. It seemed a little plain and linear for my tastes. However, seeing as it's a kids theme, and I'm a college aged kid, I can forgive that.

I personally loved the designs of the characters and sets, and was looking forward to seeing what 2017 had to offer. I bought every single set this line had to offer, and even have a nice little display shelf for my collection (probably not going to disassemble and MOC with them anytime soon). I think the two waves of toa were going for two completely different objectives (personality in 2015, and unity in 2016), and I think they did it fantastically. The set builds and quality were great and I always had tons of fun hyping myself for the next wave to come out. The guy at TRU looked at me strange when he sees this 19 year old kid with a bunch of lego sets in his hands!

My wallet definitely thanks LEGO for ending the line where it was, but my heart is cursing it with words that should never be spoken. 

 

The one thing I want LEGO to do before they officially close out the line is to release instructions for that BA looking Makuta seen in JtO and the Building contest video. I WANT THAT ON MY SHELF THIS INSTANT!!! If it comes out as a singular, end of year set, great. If I have to scrounge for pieces on Bricklink, okay. , if I need to buy duplicates of a couple sets, fine! JUST GIVE US THE MAKUTA WE WANT!!! Even if we don't get the MouP, there's already a shapeways model ready to be printed for this specific purpose.

 

Please, LEGO, my shelf is weeping at the lonely, empty space I have set aside for the one and only (G2) Makuta. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is sad that the Bionicle sets will no longer be produced, But I don't think that CCBS will be completely gone afterwards. I managed to make a call with LEGO last night about the future of Contstraction and their customer support said that they would most likely be keeping the system, but it will be used in different formats. I thought that was a very interesting thing to say, so I decided to tell you guys this in the case that you were concerned about the future of CCBS. However, only time will tell us the answer.


 


I've also managed to make an article about the 2nd cancellation of Bionicle in the following links. Feel free to read them if you want to.


 


http://www.moc-pages.../moc.php/431232


 


http://ljamespersonal.weebly.com/


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would like to point out the wording of Lego's tweets. They simply said bionicle. They did not specify which version. And the recent press announcement shows that G2 is now the official name. They also said that some products were more successful then others. This could mean a number of things. For example select figures could have sold well whilst the others sold poorly. Or G2 may have failed and they could just be referring to G1. 

It's time to move on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First of all, Fishers, I'm quite certain having multiple accounts is against BZP Rules & Reg.

 

Back on topic: It doesn't matter why G2 was cancelled, or what went on behind closed doors. Those doors were closed for a reason. Instead of being upset that it ended so abruptly, we should be thankful as a community that we received Bionicle (G1 and G2), and should be happy for whatever TLG creates in Bionicle's wake.

bBhcfWO.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting (and for a lover of the latest Bionicle sets, heartwarming) to read the tweets saying that Bionicle has been successful overall. However, I think it should be acknowledged that overall success is not a guarantee for longevity. I imagine that overall, most discontinued themes from recent years (such as Legends of Chima and Ultra Agents) would be considered overall successes, because LEGO generally doesn't keep themes running any longer than they think they can justifiably sustain them. But that doesn't mean running them until they're no longer profitable.

 

Let's suppose, for instance, that the first wave of Bionicle sets made a pretty decent profit, then the second wave made only half as much as the first, then the third wave made only 50% as much as the second. Altogether, each wave is still profitable, but that's still a rather precipitous decline. The sort that retailers and media partners are surely going to take notice of.

 

And of course, the fact that the line, at all of those stages, is still ostensibly making money for LEGO, doesn't guarantee it's making money for all the retailers LEGO depends on to get those sets into the hands of fans, or the media partners who promote the story. Even if a retailer can manage to turn a profit on Bionicle sets, they might not be keen on ordering those sets if they make many times more profit (and see more growth in their profits) by dedicating that percentage of their budget and shelf space to other LEGO themes.

 

And companies like Scholastic and Little, Brown that publish the Bionicle chapter books, activity books, and graphic novels might not want to keep publishing them if they could spend the same amount as they spent publishing Bionicle books on more lucrative franchises. So even the quantity of story we had, which a lot of people were disappointed with, could have wound up diminishing further if LEGO had chosen to push Bionicle a year or two longer.

 

The LEGO Group's dependence on retail and licensing partners is something not a lot of people think about, but it definitely matters and was a big factor in why G1 Bionicle ended when it did — even if LEGO could have profited off the line's shrinking sales for a few years longer (perhaps unlikely, since LEGO found towards the end that they had not been properly accounting for all the costs associated with Bionicle), they would have risked more and more business partners losing faith in the Bionicle theme and the constraction category.

Edited by Aanchir
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I was hoping that after a few days (and getting through the unpleasant experience of breaking the bad news to my siblings) I'd have simmered down and be able to see this whole fiasco from Lego's perspective.

Doesn't seem to be happening, 'cause all of the above has come and gone, and I'm still furious. It's not just about the cancellation itself--that's very disappointing, but we all have to learn to live with life's disappointments, and in the big scheme of things, the end of a toyline, no matter how beloved, isn't that huge. No, what really ticks me off is how Lego handled it.

Let's take a moment and turn our mental clocks back to the end of G1. Lego had given us a few months warning that the end was coming, and we still had a little bit in the pipeline to wrap things up: a few comics, one last book, and even a final wave of sets--even if those sets were under-budgeted and rather unimpressive. It at least showed some consideration for the fanbase...which is, you know, kind of the whole point of an entertainment company.

Come back to today, and what do we have? The Bionicle team, after spending years on this project and clearly giving it their all, is forced to cram a resolution into the last few minutes of JtO, hamstringing the ending and leaving a tangled mass of unresolved plot threads. Then, in spite of the fact that the end was obviously planned well in advance, Lego doesn't bother to announce it to the general public until after the last of the story is published, sending Bionicle's outlook from "slightly weak" to "over now" within hours. No explanation has been forthcoming as to why they went back on their promise of a third year. In 2010, the Stars had at least five completely new parts that I can think of off the top of my head, plus numerous recolors; in 2016, Lego couldn't even give us one new mold so we could at least have the Mask of Ultimate Power.

That.

Is.

Low.

So, most of my (and my siblings') Lego budget for next year will probably be spent Bricklinking parts to build JtO Makuta and give the Toa their mandatory 2017 upgrade. We'll be taking it upon ourselves to finish the story properly, as well. I really wish I could say that my condemnation of Lego on the day of the announcement was just an overreaction, that I've thought better of it. Well, I've thought quite a bit, and all that still stands. The end result of this little escapade is that I've lost all respect I had for Lego as a company.

bionicle_2017_banner_3c.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

It at least showed some consideration for the fanbase...which is, you know, kind of the whole point of an entertainment company.

 

The point is to entertain and please as many as possible of their overall customers, not just fairly small groups of fans like us on BZPower. Whilst it's nice when they do act in relation to such fan groups, at the end of the day they don't have to.

 

 

 

No explanation has been forthcoming as to why they went back on their promise of a third year.

 

I agree an explanation would be welcome, though I doubt it comes down to anything more than "the sets didn't sell well enough".

 

 

 

In 2010, the Stars had at least five completely new parts that I can think of off the top of my head, plus numerous recolors; in 2016, Lego couldn't even give us one new mold so we could at least have the Mask of Ultimate Power. 

 

I think that's just in keeping with the far less grand handling the recent Bionicle has had.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Reading through these comments, I'm reminded of the ending of Exo-Force back in, what was it, 2008? Keep in mind that Exo-Force was one of the better story-based themes, and they never even got an official cancelation announcement; LEGO just stopped releasing sets and story material. Exo-Force ended with the heroes being ambushed by the robots. Again, this was one of the good lines. Hero Factory ended similarly, although, since Hero Factory (especially Invasion From Below) sucked, no one was really bothered. But it was the same silent death: a cease of new sets or story material, and, as far as I can recall, no official announcement. In fact, BIONICLE's the only line I can recall ever getting such treatment, and I can't imagine any other theme getting it except one of the giants, like Star Wars or City (neither of which will probably ever be canceled).

It seems that the ending of Generation 1 was something unique for LEGO, in light of BIONICLE's unusually long run and loyal fanbase. Ask yourselves this, though: does Generation 2 merit any of the same care? Look at it independently, without considering its connection to Generation 1 (as most of its target demographic would be). LEGO did pull the plug on a line too early, possibly due to misinterpreting the situation to think the line wasn't popular, or maybe we are the ones who are wrong. After all, before they announced the cancelation, all I ever heard on this site was how nobody liked G2 compared to G1. I'd be hard-pressed to find a fandom more prone to complaining than our own:

BZPower in 2009: The Legend Reborn sucks! BIONICLE isn't what it used to be!
*BIONICLE gets canceled*
BZPower in 2010: NOOOO! You killed our childhood! Bring back BIONICLE!

*LEGO brings back BIONICLE*

BZPower in 2015: Hey, this actually looks kind of cool.

*the webisodes get released*

BZPower in 2015: Generation 2 sucks!

*Generation 2 gets canceled*

BZPower in 2016: NOOOOOOO! It was just getting good! You pulled the plug too soon! It's like you revived our childhood just to kill it again!

 

If I was a LEGO representative, I'd be too confused by what comes out of this site to know what to think. All I really have to say is, yes, LEGO canceled the line too early and should have proceeded at least with the third year. But they didn't cancel it because they intentionally set it up to fail or anything. They just made a business decision that we personally don't understand the reasoning behind.

  • Upvote 2

"You are an absolute in these uncertain times. Your past is forgotten, and your
future is an empty book. You must find your own destiny, my brave adventurer.
"
-- Turaga Nokama

nichijou2.jpg

Click here to visit my library!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly I always thought that G2 was basically just glorified Hero Factory. The passion and depth that were put in the original lore were nowhere to be found. The idea was probably to prevent the convoluted mess that G1's story became, but it ended up being completely interchangable with the storylines of other Lego themes like Chima or the old Knight's Kingdom. And since the other themes had licences as well as more promotion, G2 was doomed to end up on the chopping block sooner or later. 

  • Upvote 1

It's all ogre now

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly I always thought that G2 was basically just glorified Hero Factory. The passion and depth that were put in the original lore were nowhere to be found. The idea was probably to prevent the convoluted mess that G1's story became, but it ended up being completely interchangable with the storylines of other Lego themes like Chima or the old Knight's Kingdom. And since the other themes had licences as well as more promotion, G2 was doomed to end up on the chopping block sooner or later.

 

 

Huh. And did you think it was Glorified HF Before Offical Release or After?

 

On the other note while it is true that this new BIONICLE had just the same amount of story as the two themes listed that was to lesson confusion... But inretrospect most pf BIONICLE G1's confusion came in the later years. If LEGO had just focused in the same way as 2001 and 2002 in terms of G2 it would have most likely would have been successful. At least then it could be somewhat comparible to G1 in terms of lore. But they didn't do that, they were too cautious, too slow, they looked to far ahead, making Solid Gold Masks that we didn't need, and they lost their footing in terms of Advertising and Promotion. How G1 lifted off in it's first year was that it was Advertised Almost Everywhere. Now, if LEGO could pay for THAT much advertising back then why couldn't they do it again now for the theme? They did it with other themes i.e Chima. But Chima wasn't very popular with kids for one reason or another. I frankly can think up of many but thats a discussion for another time.

 

The point in Total is that LEGO Royally screwed up in almost every degree. Advertising, Usage of Money Produced by the Themes Sales, I'm sure some back door asset purchases for ideas and concepts may have been done. It was a lot of reasons. Now, I think that Kids do like Robotic or Bio-Mechanical characters, but are less inclinded to ask their parents because they may seem menacing and Laien to them. Not seeing their Heroic actions on Screen anywhere, the Lore not being Grasping for them to latch onto, Uninteresting Enemies.

 

Ugh... LEGO, you tried. But your Foolhardy Cautious Approach with this theme which in terms of Marketing and Sales wasn't babied with prior and succeeded. LEGO Squandered their work out of Fear and with Blind Decisions. They gave it the Regular Treat,ent for a Theme instead of Going all out as they ahould have, and Righteously so.

Quote: "Love has no fear, and no vengeance." |

:t: :m_o: :a: :i: :m: :r: :u: :k: :i: :i: | mEaHKlH.pngAndekas

 

pure_muscle.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly I always thought that G2 was basically just glorified Hero Factory. The passion and depth that were put in the original lore were nowhere to be found.

Kind of odd that you say that, since a lot of passion and forethought went into Hero Factory itself. So you're selling two themes short rather than just one.

 

Many of the people who are frequently (and rightly) credited for making Bionicle G1 as detailed and complex as it was contributed in many of the same ways to the development and marketing of Hero Factory. Christian Faber, who was instrumental in developing the Bionicle world and mythos (including the secret giant robot that served as the "big story engine"), also helped shape the Hero Factory concept, universe, and story from beginning to end, as he discussed here before removing the text for the sake of secrecy. Greg Farshtey wrote Hero Factory comics for the LEGO Club Magazine and chapter books and guide books for Scholastic, just as he had for Bionicle. Christoffer Raundahl, one of the leading Bionicle G1 d,esigners, involved in designing sets ranging from the Toa Mata and Bahrag to the Toa Mahri, was one of three designers who created the revolutionary Character and Creature Building System used for all Hero Factory sets from 2011 onwards.

 

Needless to say, these themes may not have lived up to Bionicle G1, but there was never any lack of "passion" in their development.

Edited by Aanchir
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly? It's really sad to see Bionicle go but I really am not that surprised. The sets may have been some of the best we ever had but the marketing was handled poorly, The characters were as flat as a pancake and there was hardly any story to speak of. Take a look at Ninjago. It has good characters, good story and a TV show. This shows that Lego can still handle a story based theme but in this case they just chose not to. They expected the old fans and the Bionicle name to carry it all the way and we certainly did our part but Lego failed to attract a new audience and in my opinion that was because Lego didn't try hard enough. Oh well. We'll just have to hope for a better re-reboot.

Just because you're trash doesn't mean you can't do great things.


It's called garbage can, not garbage cannot!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you all want to know the honest to God truth? These were only commemorative sets. They are basically "Bionicle Stars 2" and that's why it doesn't have much of a story. These sets were literally just made to let fans relive their childhood. But as fans, we wanted something more, and even thought we were getting it. But even I knew right off the bat bionicle would be short lived. It's unfortunate but it's the truth, they are commemorative as heck.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you all want to know the honest to God truth? These were only commemorative sets. They are basically "Bionicle Stars 2" and that's why it doesn't have much of a story. These sets were literally just made to let fans relive their childhood. But as fans, we wanted something more, and even thought we were getting it. But even I knew right off the bat bionicle would be short lived. It's unfortunate but it's the truth, they are commemorative as heck.

I see what you're getting at here, especially with the 2015 Toa, but I think the villain waves sort of stand against this. Sure, you have Makuta as the big bad to commemorate, but why not give us CCBS Bohrok or Rahi in 2015 Summer and CCBS Rahkshi in 2016 if this is just commemoration?

 

I think Lego is starting to get that "suits vs. designers" divide that has been going on in the gaming industry. The people actually designing the product have all these cool ideas and proposals, and then the executives who don't actually give a blue butt about the thing, just their bank accounts, step in and say "sure, that's cool, but money, therefore no".

 

The bigger and smaller allusions to G1, such as the Toa being so similar to their original counterparts does show a sense of commemoration towards the good old days, but part of me thinks that the designers wanted G2 to be a lot more than it ended up being.

 

But you are right, the signs were kinda there from the beginning. I just hoped so much that G2 would continue that I refused to see those signs. That said, I still think the cancellation is oddly abrupt and not entirely representative of the sets' popularity. 

 

:kakama:

  • Upvote 3

:kakama: Stone rocks :kakama:

Model Designer at The LEGO Group. Former contributor at New Elementary. My MOCs can be found on Flickr and Instagram

:smilepohatunu: :smilehuki:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Y'know I just realized something. It's going to suck when there are no more Official BIONICLE Contests... There will still be BZP Contests... But for me that a whole league above anything I could make given the past few I've participated in. Though I guess I'll try.

Quote: "Love has no fear, and no vengeance." |

:t: :m_o: :a: :i: :m: :r: :u: :k: :i: :i: | mEaHKlH.pngAndekas

 

pure_muscle.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, that's just sad :( To see G2 ended in just 2 years, with Makuta himself and one out of three Legendary Masks yet to show up... I really hope the Netflix series provides the G2 story with a proper ending.

 

Nonetheless, I think Lego and the G2 Bionicle developer team deserve our thanks and gratitude for bringing back our beloved franchise back in the first place ;) The end-result of G2 may not be satisfying to us, but IMO we should be careful when comparing G2 to the gigantic legacy of G1 because times are different and G2 is way shorter than G1.

 

I wonder if we will get G3 one day? If yes, I hope the franchise is handed to a visionary, like what BaltaSucks suggested earlier in this thread.

 

I am curious to what BZPers think about this news, so I read the first three pages of this thread (I might read the latter half of this thread later on). Here's my two cents:

  1. Regarding whether or not Lego has really put much heart, soul, and even faith into their running of G2, this is no doubt pretty hard to tell even though IMO arguers for both sides of this debate shared some excellent insights and info that informed me much. Not only evidence for both side of this argument exist, this sort of debate also invites a multitude of varying interpretations (even from the same piece of evidence). I prefer acknowledging that I don't know much about this issue.
  2. Some argued that G2 was designed, promoted and generally managed with the wrong direction, strategy and assumptions in mind. Well, I guess "having tried" is better than "not having tried"? I also think that, from the developer's perspectives, trying to appeal to a new generation of fans, not considering the specific approach/method to "appealing", is a well-intentioned aim in itself. Same goes with trying to please older fans like us, obviously. As for trying to do both at the same time... well, I hope Lego and the future Bionicle team (if there ever will be one) take lessons from the outcome of their G2 run and translate it into something better for G3.
  3. IF G2's lackluster performance really turns out to be related somehow to the changing preferences of kids these days, that still does not offer us a reason to place the blame on them.

If you seek my personal opinions, I think G1 and G2 each have their own upsides and downsides - in terms of everything including set designs, story/lore, multimedia, etc. A lot of subjective preference is involved whenever one decides that one generation or assessment criteria is better than the other. All in all I miss G1 dearly but I am also glad that Lego has given us G2, more glad than not having G2. Although tbh from G3 and onwards I will start to care less and less unless a future generation that truly impresses me arrive.

 

Last wish: can we please have a continuation of the "ongoing" web serials from Gen 1? :begging:

Edited by Tahtorak ate my house!
  • Upvote 1

Your left brain contains nothing right, while your right brain contains nothing left.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...