Jump to content

Should Stone get the boot?


Sir Keksalot

  

60 members have voted

You do not have permission to vote in this poll, or see the poll results. Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

Recommended Posts

Pohatu, or any other Toa Mata, should never appear again as a bionicle set. All original characters and story only. This is what Lego messed up about G2, no one wanted a completely recycled theme.

you =/= everyone.

 

I, for one, hope that when G3 comes, it's the original six Toa again, at least in the beginning.

 

With Pohatu being a Toa of Stone. Stone!

 

:kakama:

  • Upvote 5

:kakama: Stone rocks :kakama:

Model Designer at The LEGO Group. Former contributor at New Elementary. My MOCs can be found on Flickr and Instagram

:smilepohatunu: :smilehuki:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

I really think nitpicking stone vs earth is about as logical as nitpicking ice vs water would be, yet I see no "get rid of ice as an element" threads anywhere. Neither make sense in a scientific way, but the lore - as convoluted as it is - has made the distinctions between them very clear.

But water is liquid and ice is solid. The elements of Ice, Water, and Air all control the same substance, just in different states (solid, liquid, gas).

 

Um... air is very definitely a different substance than water. Mind you, a Toa of Air could conceivably control clouds/steam by manipulating the air around it, but that doesn't really count as "controlling water" any more than a Toa of Earth creating an earthquake that formed a tidal wave.

 

I think what SQ meant by that was that air also contains Hydrogen and Oxygen, same as Water and Ice do.

 

 

Pohatu, or any other Toa Mata, should never appear again as a bionicle set. All original characters and story only. This is what Lego messed up about G2, no one wanted a completely recycled theme.

 

So why was every man and his dog constantly complaining about the dissimilarities between the two when G2 was running?

Edited by Logan McOwen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pohatu, or any other Toa Mata, should never appear again as a bionicle set. All original characters and story only. This is what Lego messed up about G2, no one wanted a completely recycled theme.

Then there's no point to labeling it as "Bionicle." If, at its core, it's not about the same iconic characters working toward the goal they were conceived to pursue, then it's not really a proper reboot/adaptation.

Rule #1: Always listen to Kek.

Rule #2: If you break rule #1, kindly don't.

Rule #3: EVERYBODY TYPE IN THE CHAT "AVAK IS A STUPID TRIGGER"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Pohatu, or any other Toa Mata, should never appear again as a bionicle set. All original characters and story only. This is what Lego messed up about G2, no one wanted a completely recycled theme.

Then there's no point to labeling it as "Bionicle." If, at its core, it's not about the same iconic characters working toward the goal they were conceived to pursue, then it's not really a proper reboot/adaptation.
Right, it would be something entirely new like a reboot of Bionicle but it would not be bionicle, a "spiritual successor" and while I love our Matas, I think they deserve a rest after their epic adventures and let new heroes take the stand. That's why Hero factory was at least somewhat interesting, only that each of the awesome looking heroes had a big "H" on their chest and it was all too childish, just as G2 was. Bionicle G1 was definitely not a babies tale!

 

E: And plus, there would be no more "Stone" argument, it could truly be replaced with a better and more logical choice for an elemental character. But also, why do these characters need to be elemental?

Edited by Tuuli
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Pohatu, or any other Toa Mata, should never appear again as a bionicle set. All original characters and story only. This is what Lego messed up about G2, no one wanted a completely recycled theme.

Then there's no point to labeling it as "Bionicle." If, at its core, it's not about the same iconic characters working toward the goal they were conceived to pursue, then it's not really a proper reboot/adaptation.
Right, it would be something entirely new like a reboot of Bionicle but it would not be bionicle, a "spiritual successor" and while I love our Matas, I think they deserve a rest after their epic adventures and let new heroes take the stand. That's why Hero factory was at least somewhat interesting, only that each of the awesome looking heroes had a big "H" on their chest and it was all too childish, just as G2 was. Bionicle G1 was definitely not a babies tale!

 

E: And plus, there would be no more "Stone" argument, it could truly be replaced with a better and more logical choice for an elemental character. But also, why do these characters need to be elemental?

 

Bionicle without elemental powers being a major aspect?

...

I mean, do you even want a Bionicle reboot, or do you just want an entirely new line of constraction sets with an original storyline? A G3 with a main cast that isn't elemental would get pretty much infinite amounts of flak from the community - with good reason.

 

Sure, there is plenty about both G1 and G2 that could be improved in a potential G3, but if we start tossing the most basic building blocks of what makes Bionicle Bionicle out, there is no point in calling it a G3 of Bionicle as opposed to something new. Horrible idea.

 

:kakama:

  • Upvote 2

:kakama: Stone rocks :kakama:

Model Designer at The LEGO Group. Former contributor at New Elementary. My MOCs can be found on Flickr and Instagram

:smilepohatunu: :smilehuki:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Pohatu, or any other Toa Mata, should never appear again as a bionicle set. All original characters and story only. This is what Lego messed up about G2, no one wanted a completely recycled theme.

Then there's no point to labeling it as "Bionicle." If, at its core, it's not about the same iconic characters working toward the goal they were conceived to pursue, then it's not really a proper reboot/adaptation.
Right, it would be something entirely new like a reboot of Bionicle but it would not be bionicle, a "spiritual successor" and while I love our Matas, I think they deserve a rest after their epic adventures and let new heroes take the stand. That's why Hero factory was at least somewhat interesting, only that each of the awesome looking heroes had a big "H" on their chest and it was all too childish, just as G2 was. Bionicle G1 was definitely not a babies tale!

 

E: And plus, there would be no more "Stone" argument, it could truly be replaced with a better and more logical choice for an elemental character. But also, why do these characters need to be elemental?

 

If it's not Bionicle. there's no point. The Toa Mata aren't real people and don't need a rest because they're fictional characters and can be employed in any reboot however Lego pleases. Hero Factory was only interesting in premise, and fell apart more and more throughout its lifetime. G2 was better than much of HF, even if it was inferior to G1. Neither was actually a "babies tale." The Toa need elemental powers because otherwise, it's like Transformers without the transforming or Star Wars without the Force.

Rule #1: Always listen to Kek.

Rule #2: If you break rule #1, kindly don't.

Rule #3: EVERYBODY TYPE IN THE CHAT "AVAK IS A STUPID TRIGGER"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speaking of reboots have you all seen the leaked image of what appears to be a glowing 1 or I?

 

Many facebook and Twitter post asked "is this a Bionicle G3?"

LEGO's answers are not no but a "Wait for the surprise our designers have for 2017."

Hey I got a Flickr because I like making LEGO stuff.

https://www.flickr.com/people/toatimelord/
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speaking of reboots have you all seen the leaked image of what appears to be a glowing 1 or I?

 

Many facebook and Twitter post asked "is this a Bionicle G3?"

LEGO's answers are not no but a "Wait for the surprise our designers have for 2017."

I can see what would lead people to think it's a Bionicle teaser (after all, G2 was teased in a similarly vague way and at least in my circle of friends several Bionicle fans and designers have shared it), but I don't think it's Bionicle. The description ("an awesome new play experience that boosts your child’s creativity!") makes it sound more like something brand-new, possibly some sort of digital or trans-media endeavor.

 

If it is something we've heard of, my best guesses would be either the Lego Life app (which is in beta in some parts of the world but has yet to get a worldwide release) or perhaps something related to the BrickHeadz (possibly something related to the VR Android App, which launched recently to little fanfare). Of course, it could just as easily be something we haven't heard of, and some sort of Constraction theme is a definite possibility given the lack of news surrounding that product category. But I'm not sure... the teaser doesn't exactly sound like it's promoting your typical action- and story-heavy constraction theme.

Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

Aanchir's and Meiko's brother

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speaking of reboots have you all seen the leaked image of what appears to be a glowing 1 or I?

 

Many facebook and Twitter post asked "is this a Bionicle G3?"

LEGO's answers are not no but a "Wait for the surprise our designers have for 2017."

It doesn't sound like anything Bionicle-related, but for all we know, Lego plans to pick up on the last part of G1. I wouldn't get my hopes up, but maybe it'll be something interesting in any case.

Rule #1: Always listen to Kek.

Rule #2: If you break rule #1, kindly don't.

Rule #3: EVERYBODY TYPE IN THE CHAT "AVAK IS A STUPID TRIGGER"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i was thinking that instead of having six elements, there would be three elements. From there, there would different Schools of sub-powers that people have mastered from their main element. Then there are two separate ones, Light and Shadow.

 

 

Fire:

  • Lightening
  • Energy (Kinetic)

 

Water (fluid):

  • Air
  • Ice
  • Plant

 

Earth:

  • Sand
  • Crystal
  • Metal

 

 

I wanted to add 'flesh' (creating and controlling flesh and bone attacks and structures) but that might have to be a specialty hybrid between off all three, like a forbidden school of great power. You wouldn't be able to manipulate flesh and bone with still living blood flowing through it, but you can control coprses or make lifeless puppet abominations, Likewise, here are some other possible specialty hybrid schools:

 

Fire and Water/Fluid:

  • Plasma
  • Sound(?)

 

Fire and Earth:

  • Magnetism

 

Water and Earth

  • Plantlife

 

All + Shadow:

  • Flesh

 

Other:

  • Light
  • Shadow

 

 

EDIT: One typo.

Edited by Iaredios the Hip Historian

line.gif

new_roman_banner1.png

A RUDE AWAKENING - A Spherus Magna redo | Tzais-Kuluu  |  Pushing Back The Tide  |  Last Words  |  Black Coronation  | Blue Man Bound | Visions of Thasos   ن

We are all but grey specks in a dark complex before a single white light

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pohatu, or any other Toa Mata, should never appear again as a bionicle set. All original characters and story only. This is what Lego messed up about G2, no one wanted a completely recycled theme.

Then there's no point to labeling it as "Bionicle." If, at its core, it's not about the same iconic characters working toward the goal they were conceived to pursue, then it's not really a proper reboot/adaptation.
Right, it would be something entirely new like a reboot of Bionicle but it would not be bionicle, a "spiritual successor" and while I love our Matas, I think they deserve a rest after their epic adventures and let new heroes take the stand. That's why Hero factory was at least somewhat interesting, only that each of the awesome looking heroes had a big "H" on their chest and it was all too childish, just as G2 was. Bionicle G1 was definitely not a babies tale!

 

E: And plus, there would be no more "Stone" argument, it could truly be replaced with a better and more logical choice for an elemental character. But also, why do these characters need to be elemental?

If it's not Bionicle. there's no point. The Toa Mata aren't real people and don't need a rest because they're fictional characters and can be employed in any reboot however Lego pleases. Hero Factory was only interesting in premise, and fell apart more and more throughout its lifetime. G2 was better than much of HF, even if it was inferior to G1. Neither was actually a "babies tale." The Toa need elemental powers because otherwise, it's like Transformers without the transforming or Star Wars without the Force.
Oh right I'm sorry, we absolutely MUST copy Avatar the last airbender. And guess what? You can make a related bionicle constraction theme and it doesn't have to be Bionicle. What about "afterman" like people are trying to make? Oh and guess what, it doesn't matter if "they're not real" because I'm absolutely sick and TIRED of the matas every time. What I meant was I wanted a rest from them. Can we please start opening our minds?

 

Don't think there can be a Bionicle sequel that's a spiritual successor?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uU6OYBrUE48/UE4fg6pWxhI/AAAAAAAAB_A/odaerB_nlxo/s1600/DemonsSoulsVSDarkSouls.jpg

Edited by Tuuli
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

Pohatu, or any other Toa Mata, should never appear again as a bionicle set. All original characters and story only. This is what Lego messed up about G2, no one wanted a completely recycled theme.

Then there's no point to labeling it as "Bionicle." If, at its core, it's not about the same iconic characters working toward the goal they were conceived to pursue, then it's not really a proper reboot/adaptation.
Right, it would be something entirely new like a reboot of Bionicle but it would not be bionicle, a "spiritual successor" and while I love our Matas, I think they deserve a rest after their epic adventures and let new heroes take the stand. That's why Hero factory was at least somewhat interesting, only that each of the awesome looking heroes had a big "H" on their chest and it was all too childish, just as G2 was. Bionicle G1 was definitely not a babies tale!

 

E: And plus, there would be no more "Stone" argument, it could truly be replaced with a better and more logical choice for an elemental character. But also, why do these characters need to be elemental?

If it's not Bionicle. there's no point. The Toa Mata aren't real people and don't need a rest because they're fictional characters and can be employed in any reboot however Lego pleases. Hero Factory was only interesting in premise, and fell apart more and more throughout its lifetime. G2 was better than much of HF, even if it was inferior to G1. Neither was actually a "babies tale." The Toa need elemental powers because otherwise, it's like Transformers without the transforming or Star Wars without the Force.
Oh right I'm sorry, we absolutely MUST copy Avatar the last airbender. And guess what? You can make a related bionicle constraction theme and it doesn't have to be Bionicle. What about "afterman" like people are trying to make? Oh and guess what, it doesn't matter if "they're not real" because I'm absolutely sick and TIRED of the matas every time. What I meant was I wanted a rest from them. Can we please start opening our minds?

 

Don't think there can be a Bionicle sequel that's a spiritual successor?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uU6OYBrUE48/UE4fg6pWxhI/AAAAAAAAB_A/odaerB_nlxo/s1600/DemonsSoulsVSDarkSouls.jpg

 

Having elements doesn't copy Avatar. The concept far predates that franchise, and has its roots in the philosophy and alchemical studies of ancient cultures.

 

If it's not actually Bionicle, it's not a sequel or a reboot, it's something different. End of story.

 

You're probably the only one who's sick of the Toa Mata. For the rest of us, we want a legitimate reboot, NOT a spiritual successor. That would just not be the same.

  • Upvote 2

Rule #1: Always listen to Kek.

Rule #2: If you break rule #1, kindly don't.

Rule #3: EVERYBODY TYPE IN THE CHAT "AVAK IS A STUPID TRIGGER"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uU6OYBrUE48/UE4fg6pWxhI/AAAAAAAAB_A/odaerB_nlxo/s1600/DemonsSoulsVSDarkSouls.jpg maybe they should just make just 4 elements instead of overwhelming their audience with 6 giant numbskulls who have no rival in power. It would make more sense even.

You posting the same image from before does not prove your point.

 

4 elements is not more confusing than 6 if the elements used make more sense. It's fantasy, so there's a little leeway with things like Ice and Water, but minor changes are all that have to be made for the purposes of making more sense.

 

The Toa Mata were not the most powerful beings in all of G1. G2 was a hot mess in terms of narrative, and it's not the source material, so I'll overlook the supposed OP-ness of its Toa. Even so, if G3 happens, there can just be limitations to each Toa that are manually written in; as in, they can only control so much of their element at one time, they need to recharge elemental energy to use their powers like in G1, etc.

Rule #1: Always listen to Kek.

Rule #2: If you break rule #1, kindly don't.

Rule #3: EVERYBODY TYPE IN THE CHAT "AVAK IS A STUPID TRIGGER"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"4 elements is not more confusing than 6 if the elements used make more sense. " And yet we're having a discussion on whether or not stone should "get the boot" and your telling me 4 can't be better than 6? Do we really want to see six giant titans beating one enemy to death? That's the "collect em all!" Spirit that no modern kid is a fan of. Video games are ruling out toys these days because they can't manage to occupy a child's imagination long enough for them to wonder about the toy they're playing with. And G2 Bionicle certainly did NOT appeal to kids of the modern age, only AFOL nerds like us were the only people to have actually considered G2 Bionicle a good line of toys. Bionicle G2 was made for BABIES. If you don't think so, then why was the advertisement so horrendous along with the cartoons, right along with the "simple story" aspect the main selling points of G2? It didn't challenge your imagination whatsoever. I'm waiting for Lego to create a new IP involving a mysterious creative world, filled with rich scenery and characters that actually make you WANT to follow the story. And it doesn't have to be BIONICLE either, it can be something completely new while remaining "bionicle feel"

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"4 elements is not more confusing than 6 if the elements used make more sense. " And yet we're having a discussion on whether or not stone should "get the boot" and your telling me 4 can't be better than 6? Do we really want to see six giant titans beating one enemy to death? That's the "collect em all!" Spirit that no modern kid is a fan of. Video games are ruling out toys these days because they can't manage to occupy a child's imagination long enough for them to wonder about the toy they're playing with.

That's not true at all though? The toy industry in general has had some shake-ups, but LEGO sales continue to soar higher and higher, including sets and themes with "collect-them-all" aspects. The idea that kids today have no patience for collecting toys and only care about video games just doesn't hold water when you look at how LEGO in particular is thriving.

 

There's nothing wrong with a storyline with four main characters. There's nothing wrong with a storyline with six main characters. I don't see why either would be inherently better than the other. LEGO Ninjago in particular started with four main characters with elemental powers, and now has six. That doesn't seem to have had any negative repercussions for its overall popularity. When you compare search interest for Ninjago vs. search interest for Bionicle over the past 13 years, Ninjago clearly comes out ahead, even though it's only existed for the last six years of that time.

 

Bionicle G2 wasn't made for babies. It was made for kids ages 6 to 14. And believe it or not, it WAS popular with many kids in that age range. Over the past two years I've met quite a few younger Bionicle fans at LEGO fan conventions, some of whom were barely aware that there'd even been a previous generation of sets, characters, and stories, or only became aware of the previous generation through their interest in the current one. Obviously it wasn't remotely as popular as things like Ninjago or Star Wars or Pokémon, but those are all high bars to clear, and I'm not completely convinced that Bionicle G1 was ever as popular as those, either.

 

Pulling this back on topic, I think Ninjago is another good example of how elements don't entirely need to make sense for kids to appreciate them in a story or toyline. Ninjago started out with just four elements: Fire, Ice, Earth, and Lightning. These are the four elements that were used to create the world of Ninjago. Since then (particularly in the "Tournament of Elements" story arc), the Ninjago TV series has added a whole bunch of other elements including Gravity, Smoke, Poison, Metal, Speed, Nature, Light, Shadow, Sound, Amber, Form, Mind, Energy/Green Energy, Wind, Water, and the nebulous "Golden Power". And rather than the less traditional elements being disliked for their weirdness or the ambiguity of where one power ends and the next begins, some of the wielders of these elements were very well received by fans (even if they were fairly minor characters in the grand scheme of things).

Edited by Aanchir
  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"4 elements is not more confusing than 6 if the elements used make more sense. " And yet we're having a discussion on whether or not stone should "get the boot" and your telling me 4 can't be better than 6? Do we really want to see six giant titans beating one enemy to death? That's the "collect em all!" Spirit that no modern kid is a fan of. Video games are ruling out toys these days because they can't manage to occupy a child's imagination long enough for them to wonder about the toy they're playing with. And G2 Bionicle certainly did NOT appeal to kids of the modern age, only AFOL nerds like us were the only people to have actually considered G2 Bionicle a good line of toys. Bionicle G2 was made for BABIES. If you don't think so, then why was the advertisement so horrendous along with the cartoons, right along with the "simple story" aspect the main selling points of G2? It didn't challenge your imagination whatsoever. I'm waiting for Lego to create a new IP involving a mysterious creative world, filled with rich scenery and characters that actually make you WANT to follow the story. And it doesn't have to be BIONICLE either, it can be something completely new while remaining "bionicle feel"

The Toa aren't "6 giant titans," they're just 6 dudes with powers and weaknesses, and they don't have to kill anyone. Video games aren't killing toys, and Lego's sales prove that.

 

G2's story fails not because of its immaturity; in fact, it's really not much worse than The Legend Reborn in that area. It fails because it's just not good. It's not captivating, it's not deep, and that's because the team that worked on the line thought Bionicle could be carried on the nostalgia of long-time fans alone when it simply couldn't. The line ended not because of its failure to appeal to children; in fact, Lego confirmed that its sales were actually doing OK. The line went down because it didn't take off like Lego was hoping it would, and they probably just want to try again. The reason it didn't take off was because the story wasn't something kids could latch onto in the same way G1's was. G1 had a lot of mystery, and the media around it was generally good, even if it wasn't really a masterpiece. G2's media was either just short, online cartoons, or a brief Netflix series. It didn't help that JtO wasn't very good, either, because it just couldn't excite kids (or even us) in the same way something like the G1 movies could.

 

If Lego makes a new IP and it has a really good story, then fine. I'm not going to argue that that's a bad thing. That's what The Lego Movie is, really--a new IP that's good. But even it it's meant to emulate what made Bionicle good, it's not Bionicle. If it's not about the same characters I fell in love with as a kid, and it doesn't come with an even remotely similar premise, then it cannot fill the void that Bionicle occupied.

 

 

 
Pulling this back on topic, I think Ninjago is another good example of how elements don't entirely need to make sense for kids to appreciate them in a story or toyline. Ninjago started out with just four elements: Fire, Ice, Earth, and Lightning. These are the four elements that were used to create the world of Ninjago. Since then (particularly in the "Tournament of Elements" story arc), the Ninjago TV series has added a whole bunch of other elements including Gravity, Smoke, Poison, Metal, Speed, Nature, Light, Shadow, Sound, Amber, Form, Mind, Energy/Green Energy, Wind, Water, and the nebulous "Golden Power". And rather than the less traditional elements being disliked for their weirdness or the ambiguity of where one power ends and the next begins, some of the wielders of these elements were very well received by fans (even if they were fairly minor characters in the grand scheme of things).

This thread isn't really about what sells, though. It's about what would genuinely make a future incarnation of Bionicle better. Of course kids are gonna accept it; they're kids, they don't have the same understanding of science or the same critical thinking that we do. But if there's a way for us older, hardcore fans can swallow it more easily without harming its viability as an IP, then why not go with that? I'm not talking about something that veers too much from G1, just a minor shift that only serves to make one of the Toa's powers less redundant to another's.

Rule #1: Always listen to Kek.

Rule #2: If you break rule #1, kindly don't.

Rule #3: EVERYBODY TYPE IN THE CHAT "AVAK IS A STUPID TRIGGER"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

If it's not actually Bionicle, it's not a sequel or a reboot, it's something different. End of story.

 

You're probably the only one who's sick of the Toa Mata. For the rest of us, we want a legitimate reboot, NOT a spiritual successor. That would just not be the same.

 

 

I actually don't. If Lego starts doing reboots over reboots - and that is going to happen, because 'the rest of us' hold G1 in such high regards that nothing is ever going to be on par with it, no matter what, not even a direct continuation - then Bionicle is ruined. We all should come to terms with the fact that Bionicle had its run, and that it's over. Nothing lasts forever.

 

Drawing comparisons with Transformers is not really helpful, for it has a completely different commercial history, and is a completely different toy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks like I'm a bit late to the party, but I would like to formally state my support for the Anti-Stone Camp.
 
What I propose in its place is rather controversial: Pohatu becomes the Toa of Wind.
 
Please note, I'm pretty sure I'm stealing this from a thread from a few months ago, but I really like this idea and I don't remember who started the thread so sorry, but thanks for the idea.
 
So if we look at the other Toa of Gen 2, they can pretty much control all the forces of nature.  I think it's rather silly to give Lewa both the ability to control plants and air, when we have the Earth-Stone debate raging on.  So you let Lewa keep Jungle (or name it Plantlife or something more universal), and you give Pohatu Wind (largely because it sounds cool, and because it might confuse people familiar with the previous gens to call him a Toa of Air).
 
Now, while you start sharpening your pitchforks and lighting your torches, I'll allow that there are many differences between Stone and Earth, but if we want 6 very DIFFERENT elements, I think this is the path to go down.  My alternate suggestion would be the Toa of Storm, where he can make rain and lightning and stuff.  This seems a bit overpowered, though, so I think Wind is a fair choice.  Really electricity is the only standard elemental thing missing in a core Toa team (but I think I have a few cool ideas for how this could be included in a fun way, but I digress once again).

"But wait, if we keep Jungle, what do we do about the Wind environment?"
 
Picture this:

A village of Matoran living in a wide, open field.  Tumbleweeds bounce along the endless expanse of scrubby grassland.  Great windmills capture the wind and use it to grind flour or stones for the other villages.  (My G3 would have an emphasis on using renewable energy to inspire a new generation of environmentalists, but I digress).

Suddenly.  Who should appear, but Pohatu and his Kitesurfer Shield?  Maybe he can fly with it, maybe he can block attacks with it, or maybe he can just go to town and bash the heck out of people.

In Gen 1, Pohatu can run like the wind; in Gen 2 he can make sandstorm tornadoes and fly.

It has always been Pohatu's true destiny to be the Toa of Wind. #BreakStoneNotWind

Attention to any LEGO execs reading this forum post, my treatment for Bionicle Generation 3 is available upon request and includes detailed descriptions of the other five villages along with descriptions of local sports, customs, and cultural practices all from an anthropological framework.  This treatment includes the outlines for multiple possible story arcs in addition to several movie, book, web content, and immersive RPG video game tie-ins.  Please contact me for further details.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

If it's not actually Bionicle, it's not a sequel or a reboot, it's something different. End of story.

 

You're probably the only one who's sick of the Toa Mata. For the rest of us, we want a legitimate reboot, NOT a spiritual successor. That would just not be the same.

 

 

I actually don't. If Lego starts doing reboots over reboots - and that is going to happen, because 'the rest of us' hold G1 in such high regards that nothing is ever going to be on par with it, no matter what, not even a direct continuation - then Bionicle is ruined. We all should come to terms with the fact that Bionicle had its run, and that it's over. Nothing lasts forever.

 

Drawing comparisons with Transformers is not really helpful, for it has a completely different commercial history, and is a completely different toy.

 

You say this with the presumption that Lego is absolutely unable to make G3 in such a way that it captures at least some of what was good about G1. They are absolutely capable; G2's poor story was a byproduct of the wrong people being behind the line. We know they can do it because they've done it before in, you know, G1. Even if all they do is bring back the Greg Spirit himself, that's one guy who can affect the media around the line and make sure it has the strengths of G1 because he worked on G1.

There's also no definitive reason to say that Lego won't reboot the line again. They said that G2's sales were actually average, which means they didn't pull it for reasons of failure, but because it didn't take off like they wanted it to. More than likely, this is a return to the drawing board, and Lego wants to try again with a better reboot.

 

The comparisons I drew to Transformers are totally unaffected by its differences with Bionicle. It was a very general comparison.

 

#BreakStoneNotWind

I'd really only go with this is Lewa absolutely could not go back to being a Toa of Air, since that's an aspect of G1 that can afford not to be changed without causing any headaches.

  • Upvote 1

Rule #1: Always listen to Kek.

Rule #2: If you break rule #1, kindly don't.

Rule #3: EVERYBODY TYPE IN THE CHAT "AVAK IS A STUPID TRIGGER"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Arguments against stone being a valid element are all logical, and they make sense, but G1 was straddled with so many other elements that made even less sense, that I don't get why we're not on a witch-hunt for them instead of stone. Psionics isn't an "element", Plasma is even more interchangeable with fire than stone is with earth, and I must reiterate that even if we stick to the original six, water and ice being separate is still less legit than stone and earth. 

 

The differences between the use of the two in Bionicle canon are numerous and obvious, and many in this very thread have already described them. Reading too much into things can also lead you to the conclusion that control over water also brings with it control over the temperature of that water, meaning that theoretically a Toa of water could freeze water - hence ice. And yet ice is a different element.

 

Even in the real world, there are differences between earth and stone, as substances. Water and ice are literally the exact same thing.

 

I feel that if we're having this particular discussion, we should also be discussing the pointlessness of other elements, especially if they make less sense than stone does according to those who support getting rid of it. 

 

However, all that being said, I would want either water or ice being cut out of the equation any more than I want stone to go away. These six main elements are so central to what makes Bionicle what it is, that I doubt any reboot without them would feel "right". I mean, G2 axed air in favor of jungle, and the reboot was disliked by most. I'm not saying people didn't like G2 solely because of jungle, but it certainly didn't help.

 

And even if stone and earth are unified into one element, I'd prefer if earth was the one that croaked, not stone. There are enough fictional universes that base themselves on the typical asian elements. I'd prefer Bionicle to do a unique take on elementals, instead of being straddled by overused tropes.

 

:kakama:

:kakama: Stone rocks :kakama:

Model Designer at The LEGO Group. Former contributor at New Elementary. My MOCs can be found on Flickr and Instagram

:smilepohatunu: :smilehuki:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Arguments against stone being a valid element are all logical, and they make sense, but G1 was straddled with so many other elements that made even less sense, that I don't get why we're not on a witch-hunt for them instead of stone. Psionics isn't an "element", Plasma is even more interchangeable with fire than stone is with earth, and I must reiterate that even if we stick to the original six, water and ice being separate is still less legit than stone and earth.

The difference between Plasma and Fire is the difference between this and this.

Enough said.

 

And even if stone and earth are unified into one element, I'd prefer if earth was the one that croaked, not stone. There are enough fictional universes that base themselves on the typical asian elements. I'd prefer Bionicle to do a unique take on elementals, instead of being straddled by overused tropes.

I'm confused, you've said before that the five Asian elements are overused.  Yet the only work I know of that uses those five elements is the game Freedom Planet.  That's the only one among how many dozens of pieces of fiction I've read/watched/played.  So why do you consider it overused?

Avatar by Nicholas Anderson (NickonAquaMagna)

My blog: The Jaga's Nest

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Arguments against stone being a valid element are all logical, and they make sense, but G1 was straddled with so many other elements that made even less sense, that I don't get why we're not on a witch-hunt for them instead of stone. Psionics isn't an "element", Plasma is even more interchangeable with fire than stone is with earth, and I must reiterate that even if we stick to the original six, water and ice being separate is still less legit than stone and earth. 

 

The differences between the use of the two in Bionicle canon are numerous and obvious, and many in this very thread have already described them. Reading too much into things can also lead you to the conclusion that control over water also brings with it control over the temperature of that water, meaning that theoretically a Toa of water could freeze water - hence ice. And yet ice is a different element.

 

Even in the real world, there are differences between earth and stone, as substances. Water and ice are literally the exact same thing.

 

I feel that if we're having this particular discussion, we should also be discussing the pointlessness of other elements, especially if they make less sense than stone does according to those who support getting rid of it. 

 

However, all that being said, I would want either water or ice being cut out of the equation any more than I want stone to go away. These six main elements are so central to what makes Bionicle what it is, that I doubt any reboot without them would feel "right". I mean, G2 axed air in favor of jungle, and the reboot was disliked by most. I'm not saying people didn't like G2 solely because of jungle, but it certainly didn't help.

 

And even if stone and earth are unified into one element, I'd prefer if earth was the one that croaked, not stone. There are enough fictional universes that base themselves on the typical asian elements. I'd prefer Bionicle to do a unique take on elementals, instead of being straddled by overused tropes.

 

:kakama:

Well none the of the other elements were released as sets or really took centre stage, but most of them fit very poorly with the original elements, and I guarantee you'll find more fans who didn't like those elements than want to get rid of Stone.

 

And yeah, Ice is definitely on thin ice if people want to get rid of Stone. Bionicle tends to treat it as "Toa of Cold", but I could see arguments for replacing it with Storm, Lightning, or something more obviously distinct. Kopaka's very popular, though. I imagine that replacing him would be a very hard sell.

 

And I think Earth is a better catch-all than Stone in terms of what those powers can do. While being unique is nice, you don't want to end up confusing people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Arguments against stone being a valid element are all logical, and they make sense, but G1 was straddled with so many other elements that made even less sense, that I don't get why we're not on a witch-hunt for them instead of stone. Psionics isn't an "element", Plasma is even more interchangeable with fire than stone is with earth, and I must reiterate that even if we stick to the original six, water and ice being separate is still less legit than stone and earth. 

 

The differences between the use of the two in Bionicle canon are numerous and obvious, and many in this very thread have already described them. Reading too much into things can also lead you to the conclusion that control over water also brings with it control over the temperature of that water, meaning that theoretically a Toa of water could freeze water - hence ice. And yet ice is a different element.

 

Even in the real world, there are differences between earth and stone, as substances. Water and ice are literally the exact same thing.

 

I feel that if we're having this particular discussion, we should also be discussing the pointlessness of other elements, especially if they make less sense than stone does according to those who support getting rid of it. 

 

However, all that being said, I would want either water or ice being cut out of the equation any more than I want stone to go away. These six main elements are so central to what makes Bionicle what it is, that I doubt any reboot without them would feel "right". I mean, G2 axed air in favor of jungle, and the reboot was disliked by most. I'm not saying people didn't like G2 solely because of jungle, but it certainly didn't help.

 

And even if stone and earth are unified into one element, I'd prefer if earth was the one that croaked, not stone. There are enough fictional universes that base themselves on the typical asian elements. I'd prefer Bionicle to do a unique take on elementals, instead of being straddled by overused tropes.

 

:kakama:

First, if other elements need to be changed for the same reason, they can be changed. The menagerie of secondary elements in G1 was a mess and could really stand to have some elements just cut, not even replaced, just cut. Psionics, for example--that veers from the definition of what the other elements are because minds aren't stuff. They're not tangible matter, they're not energy, they're just thoughts and urges. That doesn't fit with things like Fire, Light, Plantlife, etc. because those are all things that exist in nature that can be created or manipulated to some end.

 

Second, Water and Ice are more different than Stone and Earth because they're at least in different states of matter and have different properties whereas Stone and Earth are the exact same stuff, just in different places. Stone is loose rocks on the planet's surface, Earth is the giant slabs of rock that form the planet's crust. For the purposes of having unique powers among a set of characters, that's flawed. Kopaka can freeze things and make solid constructions of ice, and Gali can move liquid water around. Those two abilities are going to be used for different things. Pohatu and Onua both just move rocks around in some capacity; that's not varied in any way. They can crush things under rocks, make giant structures of rock, throw rocks at things, and so on, and there's no fundamental difference between the two save for the fact that Pohatu can control sand and Onua gets his rocks by ripping them out of the ground.

  • Upvote 1

Rule #1: Always listen to Kek.

Rule #2: If you break rule #1, kindly don't.

Rule #3: EVERYBODY TYPE IN THE CHAT "AVAK IS A STUPID TRIGGER"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Arguments against stone being a valid element are all logical, and they make sense, but G1 was straddled with so many other elements that made even less sense, that I don't get why we're not on a witch-hunt for them instead of stone. Psionics isn't an "element", Plasma is even more interchangeable with fire than stone is with earth, and I must reiterate that even if we stick to the original six, water and ice being separate is still less legit than stone and earth. 

 

...

 

Even in the real world, there are differences between earth and stone, as substances. Water and ice are literally the exact same thing.

 

I feel that if we're having this particular discussion, we should also be discussing the pointlessness of other elements, especially if they make less sense than stone does according to those who support getting rid of it.

 

It's fairly logical that Earth vs. Stone is the biggest point of discussion; sure, G1 had plenty of other questionable elements, but they were, on the whole, incredibly insignificant. What impact did Plasma have on the setting? I guess we heard, somewhere, that Zaktan killed a Toa of Plasma this one time. Eh. On the other hand, Stone was included in the majority of the canister waves.

 

And while water and ice might be the same substance, chemically, there's a huge thematic and practical gulf between them in the setting. Earth vs. Stone doesn't have that.

 

On the note of Pohatu becoming the Toa of Air; in addition to the desert having a fairly strong association with wind, the jungle's also the second least wind-friendly territory on Mata Nui/Okoto, barring the subterranean Onu-Koro. (Well, I suppose a lot of Ta-Koro's significant bits were caverns, too.) Dense foliage acts as a windbreak - that's one of the reasons many farm fields are lined with dense shrubs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh right I'm sorry, we absolutely MUST copy Avatar the last airbender. 

 

Sorry to bring this back again, but seriously? Avatar came out in 2005--4 years after Bionicle. Also, the story of Avatar followed a boy from a relatively remote area being brought into a great war against an evil empire, and on his journey, he has to master a variety of ancient powers in order to help him and his companions succeed. Also, he rides a giant flying creature. That is the plot of Eragon, which was released in 2003. By your reasoning, Avatar is a pointless ripoff of both Bionicle and Eragon.

 

 

 

Second, Water and Ice are more different than Stone and Earth because they're at least in different states of matter and have different properties whereas Stone and Earth are the exact same stuff, just in different places. Stone is loose rocks on the planet's surface, Earth is the giant slabs of rock that form the planet's crust. 

 

Technically, no. What about clay and soil, like what plants grow in? Mud, clay, soil, etc, vary greatly in structure and behavior from granite and limestone. You could say "but it's the same substance, just in different states of matter," but then you're looking at Ice and Water again. There's really no end to this cycle. Just offering my two cents on that before it clogs the topic with the exact same argument with no end in sight. 

 

One point that I've used in every other version of this topic over the years is "Go outside and start digging a hole. 'Earth' is the brown stuff your shovel separates fairly easily. 'Stone' is the really hard chunks that your shovel bounces off of." Just like Water and Ice, look at the way the element behaves in nature. That's how you know Stone and Earth are two very different things.

 

That out of the way, carry on. :)

  • Upvote 1

~Your friendly, neighborhood Shadow

 

sotpbanner.png

~Credit for Avatar and Banner goes to

NickonAquaMagna~

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Second, Water and Ice are more different than Stone and Earth because they're at least in different states of matter and have different properties whereas Stone and Earth are the exact same stuff, just in different places. Stone is loose rocks on the planet's surface, Earth is the giant slabs of rock that form the planet's crust. 

 

Technically, no. What about clay and soil, like what plants grow in? Mud, clay, soil, etc, vary greatly in structure and behavior from granite and limestone. You could say "but it's the same substance, just in different states of matter," but then you're looking at Ice and Water again. There's really no end to this cycle. Just offering my two cents on that before it clogs the topic with the exact same argument with no end in sight. 

 

One point that I've used in every other version of this topic over the years is "Go outside and start digging a hole. 'Earth' is the brown stuff your shovel separates fairly easily. 'Stone' is the really hard chunks that your shovel bounces off of." Just like Water and Ice, look at the way the element behaves in nature. That's how you know Stone and Earth are two very different things.

 

That out of the way, carry on. :)

 

Mud is a mixture of water and soil, and clay and soil are solids, so the comparison to that vs. Ice and Water isn't really accurate.

 

We know that Earth encompasses more than just soil because Toa of Earth can cause seismic activity, which means moving around the rocky crust of their planet. That's not soil, that's stone; yet Toa of Earth can manipulate it.

Rule #1: Always listen to Kek.

Rule #2: If you break rule #1, kindly don't.

Rule #3: EVERYBODY TYPE IN THE CHAT "AVAK IS A STUPID TRIGGER"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah the Bionicle experts, gotta love em.

 

I should have just been politically correct and said "We absolutely MUST base our characters around Elements!"

 

But alas, I do believe "Rebel nature" is the Bionicle successor I've been mentioning. Has nothing to do with Bionicle yet everything to do with it.

 

Or perhaps someone can show me the glowing "1" picture that got leaked? "Journey to One" might have a hidden meaning.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Arguments against stone being a valid element are all logical, and they make sense, but G1 was straddled with so many other elements that made even less sense, that I don't get why we're not on a witch-hunt for them instead of stone. Psionics isn't an "element", Plasma is even more interchangeable with fire than stone is with earth, and I must reiterate that even if we stick to the original six, water and ice being separate is still less legit than stone and earth. 

 

The differences between the use of the two in Bionicle canon are numerous and obvious, and many in this very thread have already described them. Reading too much into things can also lead you to the conclusion that control over water also brings with it control over the temperature of that water, meaning that theoretically a Toa of water could freeze water - hence ice. And yet ice is a different element.

 

Even in the real world, there are differences between earth and stone, as substances. Water and ice are literally the exact same thing.

 

I feel that if we're having this particular discussion, we should also be discussing the pointlessness of other elements, especially if they make less sense than stone does according to those who support getting rid of it. 

 

However, all that being said, I would want either water or ice being cut out of the equation any more than I want stone to go away. These six main elements are so central to what makes Bionicle what it is, that I doubt any reboot without them would feel "right". I mean, G2 axed air in favor of jungle, and the reboot was disliked by most. I'm not saying people didn't like G2 solely because of jungle, but it certainly didn't help.

 

And even if stone and earth are unified into one element, I'd prefer if earth was the one that croaked, not stone. There are enough fictional universes that base themselves on the typical asian elements. I'd prefer Bionicle to do a unique take on elementals, instead of being straddled by overused tropes.

 

:kakama:

First, if other elements need to be changed for the same reason, they can be changed. The menagerie of secondary elements in G1 was a mess and could really stand to have some elements just cut, not even replaced, just cut. Psionics, for example--that veers from the definition of what the other elements are because minds aren't stuff. They're not tangible matter, they're not energy, they're just thoughts and urges. That doesn't fit with things like Fire, Light, Plantlife, etc. because those are all things that exist in nature that can be created or manipulated to some end.

 

Second, Water and Ice are more different than Stone and Earth because they're at least in different states of matter and have different properties whereas Stone and Earth are the exact same stuff, just in different places. Stone is loose rocks on the planet's surface, Earth is the giant slabs of rock that form the planet's crust. For the purposes of having unique powers among a set of characters, that's flawed. Kopaka can freeze things and make solid constructions of ice, and Gali can move liquid water around. Those two abilities are going to be used for different things. Pohatu and Onua both just move rocks around in some capacity; that's not varied in any way. They can crush things under rocks, make giant structures of rock, throw rocks at things, and so on, and there's no fundamental difference between the two save for the fact that Pohatu can control sand and Onua gets his rocks by ripping them out of the ground.

 

 

But they don't - I mean the storyline doesn't describe the elemental powers of both Onua and Pohatu as doing stuff with rocks. Pohatu does stuff with rocks, Onua causes earthquakes and... well, he's strong, I guess. Honestly, G1 doesn't represent elemental powers all too well, but I don't recall any concrete instances in the canon where the powers of Toa of Stone and Toa of Earth overlapped. It's still show as being distinct enough to warrant being separate elements. 

And honestly, ice being solid and water being liquid is just as trivial a difference as stone being above ground and earth being below it. 

 

Also, I'm pretty sure Onua's earthquake abilities do not stem from moving tectonic plates, simply because there are none in the MU. Rather, he controls the very soil itself, causing it to heave and toss.  Hence, the argument that earth = soil particles and smaller while stone = sand/pebbles and bigger is still valid. Pohatu does stuff with rocks, Onua doesn't - he does stuff with the soil. 

 

 

Ah the Transformers experts, gotta love em.

 

I should have just been politically correct and said "We absolutely MUST base our characters around Robots that turn into vehicles!"

 

 

Same thing. You can't take the core concept of a franchise, toss it out the window, and expect to have the same franchise. 

 

:kakama:

  • Upvote 1

:kakama: Stone rocks :kakama:

Model Designer at The LEGO Group. Former contributor at New Elementary. My MOCs can be found on Flickr and Instagram

:smilepohatunu: :smilehuki:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Arguments against stone being a valid element are all logical, and they make sense, but G1 was straddled with so many other elements that made even less sense, that I don't get why we're not on a witch-hunt for them instead of stone. Psionics isn't an "element", Plasma is even more interchangeable with fire than stone is with earth, and I must reiterate that even if we stick to the original six, water and ice being separate is still less legit than stone and earth. 

 

The differences between the use of the two in Bionicle canon are numerous and obvious, and many in this very thread have already described them. Reading too much into things can also lead you to the conclusion that control over water also brings with it control over the temperature of that water, meaning that theoretically a Toa of water could freeze water - hence ice. And yet ice is a different element.

 

Even in the real world, there are differences between earth and stone, as substances. Water and ice are literally the exact same thing.

 

I feel that if we're having this particular discussion, we should also be discussing the pointlessness of other elements, especially if they make less sense than stone does according to those who support getting rid of it. 

 

However, all that being said, I would want either water or ice being cut out of the equation any more than I want stone to go away. These six main elements are so central to what makes Bionicle what it is, that I doubt any reboot without them would feel "right". I mean, G2 axed air in favor of jungle, and the reboot was disliked by most. I'm not saying people didn't like G2 solely because of jungle, but it certainly didn't help.

 

And even if stone and earth are unified into one element, I'd prefer if earth was the one that croaked, not stone. There are enough fictional universes that base themselves on the typical asian elements. I'd prefer Bionicle to do a unique take on elementals, instead of being straddled by overused tropes.

 

:kakama:

First, if other elements need to be changed for the same reason, they can be changed. The menagerie of secondary elements in G1 was a mess and could really stand to have some elements just cut, not even replaced, just cut. Psionics, for example--that veers from the definition of what the other elements are because minds aren't stuff. They're not tangible matter, they're not energy, they're just thoughts and urges. That doesn't fit with things like Fire, Light, Plantlife, etc. because those are all things that exist in nature that can be created or manipulated to some end.

 

Second, Water and Ice are more different than Stone and Earth because they're at least in different states of matter and have different properties whereas Stone and Earth are the exact same stuff, just in different places. Stone is loose rocks on the planet's surface, Earth is the giant slabs of rock that form the planet's crust. For the purposes of having unique powers among a set of characters, that's flawed. Kopaka can freeze things and make solid constructions of ice, and Gali can move liquid water around. Those two abilities are going to be used for different things. Pohatu and Onua both just move rocks around in some capacity; that's not varied in any way. They can crush things under rocks, make giant structures of rock, throw rocks at things, and so on, and there's no fundamental difference between the two save for the fact that Pohatu can control sand and Onua gets his rocks by ripping them out of the ground.

 

 

But they don't - I mean the storyline doesn't describe the elemental powers of both Onua and Pohatu as doing stuff with rocks. Pohatu does stuff with rocks, Onua causes earthquakes and... well, he's strong, I guess. Honestly, G1 doesn't represent elemental powers all too well, but I don't recall any concrete instances in the canon where the powers of Toa of Stone and Toa of Earth overlapped. It's still show as being distinct enough to warrant being separate elements. 

And honestly, ice being solid and water being liquid is just as trivial a difference as stone being above ground and earth being below it. 

 

Also, I'm pretty sure Onua's earthquake abilities do not stem from moving tectonic plates, simply because there are none in the MU. Rather, he controls the very soil itself, causing it to heave and toss.  Hence, the argument that earth = soil particles and smaller while stone = sand/pebbles and bigger is still valid. Pohatu does stuff with rocks, Onua doesn't - he does stuff with the soil. 

 

:kakama:

You can't make an earthquake by moving soil. Then, it's more of a landslide or something. Even so, BioSector01 labels seismic-related powers (like Seeker's staff) under Earth. Not sure how reliable that is, but I'm gonna throw that out there nonetheless.

 

Stone and Earth did, in fact, overlap. In MoL, Onua used his powers to bring down the caves of Onu-Koro. Caves are made of rock, so that's one instance of Stone and Earth overlapping.

 

Ice and Water are far more different than Stone and Earth. Having different physical properties is a greater difference than just being in different places. Should snow be different from Ice? Should rain be different from Water? Should there be different elements for different atmospheric layers? Because if Stone and Earth are different enough to warrant their own elements, then so are all of those things. They're in different places and can be used in slightly different ways, just like Stone and Earth.

 

*skims topic*

 

...

 

I like rocks. We should keep rocks in Bionicle.

Nobody is saying to get rid of the rocks, only that Onua gets all of the rocks instead of just some, while Pohatu gets something else like Iron.

  • Upvote 1

Rule #1: Always listen to Kek.

Rule #2: If you break rule #1, kindly don't.

Rule #3: EVERYBODY TYPE IN THE CHAT "AVAK IS A STUPID TRIGGER"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mud is a mixture of water and soil, and clay and soil are solids, so the comparison to that vs. Ice and Water isn't really accurate.

 

We know that Earth encompasses more than just soil because Toa of Earth can cause seismic activity, which means moving around the rocky crust of their planet. That's not soil, that's stone; yet Toa of Earth can manipulate it.

 

Onua controlled mud before. Remember 2008? The Karda Nui Swamp? Read the books and comics--he used mud against the Makuta very often. It counts as Earth.

 

And I didn't use the word solid, because that isn't the point. They aren't "Toa of Solids," as that would cover literally every material that is defined as such (i.e. metal, ice, rocks, glass, plastic, bone, wood, etc.). I was talking about the behavior of it. Pick up a rock and squeeze it in your hand. What happened? Now do the same to a handful of dirt or a piece of clay. You got a very different result, yes? There's your answer.

Edited by The 1st Santa

~Your friendly, neighborhood Shadow

 

sotpbanner.png

~Credit for Avatar and Banner goes to

NickonAquaMagna~

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Second, Water and Ice are more different than Stone and Earth because they're at least in different states of matter and have different properties whereas Stone and Earth are the exact same stuff, just in different places. Stone is loose rocks on the planet's surface, Earth is the giant slabs of rock that form the planet's crust.

Technically, no. What about clay and soil, like what plants grow in? Mud, clay, soil, etc, vary greatly in structure and behavior from granite and limestone. You could say "but it's the same substance, just in different states of matter," but then you're looking at Ice and Water again. There's really no end to this cycle. Just offering my two cents on that before it clogs the topic with the exact same argument with no end in sight. 

 

One point that I've used in every other version of this topic over the years is "Go outside and start digging a hole. 'Earth' is the brown stuff your shovel separates fairly easily. 'Stone' is the really hard chunks that your shovel bounces off of." Just like Water and Ice, look at the way the element behaves in nature. That's how you know Stone and Earth are two very different things.

 

That out of the way, carry on. :)

 

Mud is a mixture of water and soil, and clay and soil are solids, so the comparison to that vs. Ice and Water isn't really accurate.

 

We know that Earth encompasses more than just soil because Toa of Earth can cause seismic activity, which means moving around the rocky crust of their planet. That's not soil, that's stone; yet Toa of Earth can manipulate it.

 

Real earthquakes are (usually) caused my moving around the rocky crust of the planet, but magical fantasy earthquakes could be created just as easily by moving around the soil. It's the same as how a Toa of Water could create a tsunami even though most real-life tsunamis are created by earthquakes and underwater landslides, or how Lightning has generally been treated as a separate power from Ice even though real lightning is created by friction between ice crystals in clouds.

 

There are a LOT of fictional contexts where making elemental powers make any sort of sense requires turning off a lot of your modern scientific know-how and looking at them from the point of view of, say, a medieval scholar. In that sense, the defining aspect of an earthquake or tsunami or lightning isn't what causes it. It's that the ground beneath your feet is shaking, or a giant wave is coming towards you, or a bright, hot bolt of energy just appeared out of the sky.

 

But if earthquakes are really such a big sticking point, couldn't you just take that power away from Toa of Earth and just keep their more overtly soil-related powers like tunneling and creating landslides and sinkholes?

Edited by Aanchir
  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Ah the Bionicle experts, gotta love em.

 

I should have just been politically correct and said "We absolutely MUST base our characters around Elements!"

You really need to chill with the snarky attitude whenever people disagree with you, mate. There's no need for it.

Or perhaps others can "chill out" when it comes to shutting down my idea or opinion?
  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Ah the Bionicle experts, gotta love em.

 

I should have just been politically correct and said "We absolutely MUST base our characters around Elements!"

You really need to chill with the snarky attitude whenever people disagree with you, mate. There's no need for it.

Or perhaps others can "chill out" when it comes to shutting down my idea or opinion?

 

See, what you've been doing the whole time is coming in and basically saying, "Bionicle sucks and should be replaced with something else, like a video game franchise." This topic is the 129th time we've discussed the difference between the elements of Earth and Stone.

Your "ideas and opinions" so far, do not relate to this topic at all. If you would like to express those ideas more thoroughly, I recommend creating a separate topic for it. :) Simple as that. If you treat the topic and the people discussing it with respect, you'll get respect in turn.

Edited by The 1st Santa
  • Upvote 2

~Your friendly, neighborhood Shadow

 

sotpbanner.png

~Credit for Avatar and Banner goes to

NickonAquaMagna~

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually agree with Tuuli- If it's not going to be a continuation, the Mata's shouldn't be around. And I think that a few other posters here are wrong in saying it would "no longer be BIONICLE" if the Mata's weren't there. After all, during the Inika, Mahri, and Glatorian years, the Mata weren't featured and it was still very much BIONICLE.

 

One could argue that the one common character throughout the whole story was Mata-Nui, and thus without Mata-Nui BIONICLE would cease to be BIONICLE, yet when G2 came around, it was also still BIONICLE even with Mata Nui's absense.

 

I suppose this really opens up a discussion about what makes BIONICLE what it is, because it certainly isn't the Toa Mata, nor is it necessarily about Mata-Nui. There's probably a lot of room to shake things up and still keep something "BIONICLE", and yes, I do believe that even includes bringing in an all-new cast, even changing the "elements" up a bit, or even switching the number of heroes from 6 to 5, or even 4, or maybe even 7. Why get tied down to the same old things? What made BIONICLE exciting at first was the sense of discovery, and if all we ever get is the same old stuff again and again, then I think that is when it ceases to be BIONICLE. BIONICLE was always at it's best when it was unexpected, and new. That's what I liked about it as a kid, and that's what was missing from G2- the sense of discovery, like this place was something "real", that needed to be explored.

 

If they try again, I hope that's what comes back- I think that's what BIONICLE really is about- discovery. ANd you can't discover an old world, but only a new one...

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...