Island placement

[tamaru34]

I know that Mata Nui, Voya Nui, and Mahri Nui are above the Great spirit robot, and Metru nui and Karda nui are inside. But I have some confusion about whether the following islands are above the GSR or below/inside:

 

Karzahni

 

Artahka (Did I spell that right?)

 

Destral

 

The island of the dark hunters

 

Xia

 

Also, if there are any other islands I missed, could you give me their position as well?

[TuragaNuva]

Those are all inside the GSR (as are all other islands). Also, Voya Nui and Mahri Nui were originally inside (and Voya Nui eventually was again). Mata Nui is the only island to have been outside the robot for the entirety of its existence.

 

EDIT: Curse my poor memory. Mahri Nui did NOT originate within the GSR: it was built off the coast of Voya Nui after Voya Nui exited the robot. So both Mahri Nui and Mata Nui were never inside the GSR.

Edited March 1, 2018 by TuragaNuva

[SamDrew]

Here's a link to an official map of the Matoran Universe that should help clear things up: 

 

https://biosector01.com/w/images/bs01/1/1b/Matoran_Universe.png

[Distorted]

This is a little off-topic, but I've always been a little confused by Voya Nui:

 

- I know it went flying out of the GSR during the Great Cataclysm, but what exactly caused this? And why didn't it happen to any other locations in the GSR's domes?

 

- If Voya Nui essentially broke through the 'ceiling' of the southern continent's dome, how was the island and its inhabitants not destroyed by the impact?

 

- When Voya Nui flew out of the GSR, it created a hole in the southern continent's dome which caused water to flood inside the GSR - so doesn't that mean that when it was returned to the southern continent, there was still a massive hole in the southern continent's dome and water would have flooded over Voya Nui? (Also, wouldn't the southern continent have been completely submerged itself by then?)

 

- Where was The Pit in all of this? Presumably its dome was located directly underground Voya Nui's place in the southern continent and above Karda Nui?

 

Also, what exactly is the Sea Gate listed on that map?

Edited March 1, 2018 by Distorted

[Planetperson]

This is a little off-topic, but I've always been a little confused by Voya Nui:

 

- I know it went flying out of the GSR during the Great Cataclysm, but what exactly caused this? And why didn't it happen to any other locations in the GSR's domes?

 

- If Voya Nui essentially broke through the 'ceiling' of the southern continent's dome, how was the island and its inhabitants not destroyed by the impact?

 

- When Voya Nui flew out of the GSR, it created a hole in the southern continent's dome which caused water to flood inside the GSR - so doesn't that mean that when it was returned to the southern continent, there was still a massive hole in the southern continent's dome and water would have flooded over Voya Nui? (Also, wouldn't the southern continent have been completely submerged itself by then?)

 

- Where was The Pit in all of this? Presumably its dome was located directly underground Voya Nui's place in the southern continent and above Karda Nui?

 

Also, what exactly is the Sea Gate listed on that map?

 

You are absolutely 100% justified in being confused.

 

1. IIRC, this came up in the OGD at least once, and I believe the answer Greg gave went something like this: the GC caused some sort of disturbance of energy in Karda Nui which caused it to explode outward, and since Voya Nui was the piece of land that happened to be directly above Karda Nui, the force sent it hurtling out of the GSR's chest.

 

2. I believe the official answer to this is, who the heck knows. But we do know that not everyone survived the trip, namely Turaga Jovan. Maybe the Mask of Life had something to do with the fact that it didn't crumble apart when it smacked against the ceiling?

 

3. You're right, there would have been a second hole left behind. It was simultaneously repaired by the Staff of Artakha when Voya Nui returned to the southern continent. And you're right, I'm sure that some water would have gotten through, but apparently not enough to be worth mentioning.

 

4. The Pit would have been in a dome somewhere to the north of Karda Nui and Voya Nui's original position, possibly at a significantly higher level which put it closer to the surface of the GSR (though I'm not sure its elevation was ever actually confirmed). We do know that Voya Nui drifted to the north for many centuries after leaving the GSR and before anchoring itself to the area above the Pit.

 

5. The sea gate is the passage between Metru Nui and the rest of the MU. It's presumably where one dome connects with the next. I think it was first referenced in 2004, when it was said that Turaga Dume (Makuta in disguise) had ordered the "sea gates" connecting Metru Nui to other lands closed.

Edited March 2, 2018 by Planetperson

[Downfall]

1. Well, Voya Nui was directly above Karda Nui, so that could have something to do with it. Or it might have something to do with... Well, an example might be better for this. Mata Nui falls on his back. Voya Nui, having been attached like a plug over Karda Nui, and thus a seperate piece, is carried by momentum through the top of it's dome. Come to think of it, if Voya Nui even crashed through the dome and is now floating, then the entire MU should be flooded... My apologies. My thoughts went everywhere while writing that.


2. See Karda Nui theory above.


3. As far as I knew, they hid in caves.


4. That was supposedly fixed by the staff of Artahka. As to the rest, I... really have no clue.


5. ... ... ... I have no answer.


6. There was apparently a gate between every dome. If you look through the archives, there may have been a discussion about those.

I... may not have helped. There are too many ellipses in this post. Hopefully you can get something useful out of my rambling.

EDIT: I got kapura'd by Planetperson, who explained it much better.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Downfall

[TuragaNuva]

Planetperson covered this pretty thoroughly, but one thing I wanted to add: while Voya Nui was outside the GSR, water did pour into the MU through the hole left by it. But it then poured directly into Karda Nui, through the hole in the Southern Continent where Voya Nui had been. This is what created the swamp that covered the ground-level of Karda Nui.

[Distorted]

Planetperson covered this pretty thoroughly, but one thing I wanted to add: while Voya Nui was outside the GSR, water did pour into the MU through the hole left by it. But it then poured directly into Karda Nui, through the hole in the Southern Continent where Voya Nui had been. This is what created the swamp that covered the ground-level of Karda Nui.

But if the hole from Voya Nui's ejection was around for centuries, wouldn't Karda Nui's dome have completely filled with water, so eventually the water level would have gone up to flood the southern continent too? Or was the dome of Karda Nui just massive?

 

Thanks for the answers by the way, guys! Much appreciated.

[TERIDAX941]

 

Planetperson covered this pretty thoroughly, but one thing I wanted to add: while Voya Nui was outside the GSR, water did pour into the MU through the hole left by it. But it then poured directly into Karda Nui, through the hole in the Southern Continent where Voya Nui had been. This is what created the swamp that covered the ground-level of Karda Nui.

But if the hole from Voya Nui's ejection was around for centuries, wouldn't Karda Nui's dome have completely filled with water, so eventually the water level would have gone up to flood the southern continent too? Or was the dome of Karda Nui just massive?

 

Thanks for the answers by the way, guys! Much appreciated.

 

I believe the answer to this is simply that Karda Nui is HUGE. I'm almost certain that one of the characters was marveling at its size and reflecting that it was the main reason that it wasn't completely filled up with water. 

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

Karda Nui was mentioned as almost being a universe in itself. In other words, HUGE indeed.

 

There are presumably many sea gates. Most domes probably had gates connecting them to each adjacent dome. Karda Nui apparently also had gates, as Vican traveled between it and Destral to summon Icarax.

 

I don't recall the domes being at different levels. Wouldn't that hinder travel (though maybe that's the point in the Pit's case)?

[Toa of Italy]

Karda Nui was mentioned as almost being a universe in itself. In other words, HUGE indeed.

 

There are presumably many sea gates. Most domes probably had gates connecting them to each adjacent dome. Karda Nui apparently also had gates, as Vican traveled between it and Destral to summon Icarax.

 

I don't recall the domes being at different levels. Wouldn't that hinder travel (though maybe that's the point in the Pit's case)?

 

Yes, Karda Nui's size was always the reason why it didn't fill up completely, though, personally, I think there must still have been some kind of drainage mechanism (the waterfall kept going for a thousand years!).

 

The sea gates and the portal to Karda Nui are slightly different. The latter opens only when someone approaches it and might not be a hole so much as a dimensional gate (this last consideration is mine and descends from some issues about the size of Karda Nui vs. the Southern Continent).

 

As for the geography of the sea gates, many theories have sprung up over the years about that, including mine (the topic can no longer be edited, but feel free to check it out and, if you want, to tell me what you think in this one). I think one of the important issues is whether they were just holes between a dome and the next or whether they also comprised tunnels between them.

 

The Pit had no gates. It was completely enclosed, since it was supposed to be the perfect prison. The only way to get inside was to teleport, like Botar did... until the Great Cataclysm came about, rupturing the Pit and creating a connection with the sea outside (and possibly the MU as well, since in BIONICLE: World it is stated that it is possible to travel from the MU to Mahri Nui via the Pit).

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

As for the geography of the sea gates, many theories have sprung up over the years about that, including mine (the topic can no longer be edited, but feel free to check it out and, if you want, to tell me what you think in this one). I think one of the important issues is whether they were just holes between a dome and the next or whether they also comprised tunnels between them.

 

I've only started reading, but my comments so far:

• Yes, I agree that the islands are not to scale.
• Might there be more domes than you showed, perhaps containing small, non-noteworthy land masses or seas? There seem to be some empty spots on Mata Nui's body, and, like you pointed out, the map isn't to scale.
• I agree with the tunnel theory. Metru Nui was linked to Mata Nui via tunnel (though the altitude change made that necessary) and the future Toa Inika and Takanuva went through at least one tunnel on the way to Karzahni.
• But why did the majority of Matoran think Karzahni was a myth when people from most southern lands had to go past/through it to get to Metru Nui? Before Teridax posed as Dume, Metru Nui engaged in trade with other islands.
• How do you think the joints worked? Say, for example when Mata Nui was active, someone was traveling from Stelt through his shoulder to Visorak while his arm was held straight out to his side. Then, he drops his arm, and the same person travels back. Wouldn't they notice that they're turning left now where they went straight forward before?

Edited March 31, 2018 by Cheesy Mac n Cheese

[Toatapio Nuva]

Since the "official" MU map is full of discrepancies, I personally use this map for reference instead. I recommend checking it out, it's pretty good.

 

 

But why did the majority of Matoran think Karzahni was a myth when people from most southern lands had to go past/through it to get to Metru Nui? Before Teridax posed as Dume, Metru Nui engaged in trade with other islands.

 

The traders most likely used the other two sea gates, which are on either side of Karzahni (see the map I linked). Those who tried to use the middle one probably never returned, so Matoran stopped using it because of that, and over time that route was forgotten entirely.

 

 

How do you think the joints worked? Say, for example when Mata Nui was active, someone was traveling from Stelt through his shoulder to Visorak while his arm was held straight out to his side. Then, he drops his arm, and the same person travels back. Wouldn't they notice that they're turning left now where they went straight forward before?

 

I don't see this as too much of an issue. The internal gravity held the different places of the MU in place, and the joints probably had a system that "redirected" passengers in a way. They just went from one sea gate to the next, and probably never had reason to believe anything had changed (I don't know if my answer makes sense, but it's pretty clear in my own mind...)

 

As for the confusion about Voya Nui ejecting from the GSR, here's a piece of concept art that shows how it was originally supposed to work. Voya Nui was actually supposed to have formed on the surface of a piece that got detached from the GSR, so it's doubtful Voya Nui actually existed in its island-like state within the GSR itself. Rather, the piece that got ejected probably contained tunnels that were part of the insides of the robot. In fact, the concept art seems to imply the entirety of the Southern Continent is actually more like a network of tunnels and caves, rather than having a large open dome to itself. Of course, we know that Greg greatly departed from this original plan, making Voya Nui an actual part of a continent within a gargantual open dome. So, understandably, this has caused a lot of confusion.

Edited March 31, 2018 by Toatapio Nuva

[Planetperson]

As for the confusion about Voya Nui ejecting from the GSR, here's a piece of concept art that shows how it was originally supposed to work. Voya Nui was actually supposed to have formed on the surface of a piece that got detached from the GSR, so it's doubtful Voya Nui actually existed in its island-like state within the GSR itself. Rather, the piece that got ejected probably contained tunnels that were part of the insides of the robot. In fact, the concept art seems to imply the entirety of the Southern Continent is actually more like a network of tunnels and caves, rather than having a large open dome to itself. Of course, we know that Greg greatly departed from this original plan, making Voya Nui an actual part of a continent within a gargantual open dome. So, understandably, this has caused a lot of confusion.

 

Looking at this piece of concept art again, what if the southern continent were actually curled around the upper half of the Karda Nui sphere, with a concentric outer sphere serving as its sky? It might make a bit more sense spatially, accounting for Karda Nui's massive volume while still leaving room for the southern continent to have a huge surface area.

[Toa of Italy]

• Might there be more domes than you showed, perhaps containing small, non-noteworthy land masses or seas? There seem to be some empty spots on Mata Nui's body, and, like you pointed out, the map isn't to scale.

Yes, I suppose there could be (in the Southern Islands, for instance, where the domes on my map are completely random). However, I tend to think that at least in the torso of the robot smaller landmasses are in the same domes as the larger ones.

 

• But why did the majority of Matoran think Karzahni was a myth when people from most southern lands had to go past/through it to get to Metru Nui? Before Teridax posed as Dume, Metru Nui engaged in trade with other islands.

 

The traders most likely used the other two sea gates, which are on either side of Karzahni (see the map I linked). Those who tried to use the middle one probably never returned, so Matoran stopped using it because of that, and over time that route was forgotten entirely.

Actually, the position of Karzahni is one of the reasons I don't like that map. If Karzahni had stood in the middle of the central, largest sea gate (which in BIONICLE: World is stated to be the way to sail to Xia), someone would have noticed it. True, as you say, any explorers might not have returned, but it still seems odd that it would have remained so isolated for tens of thousands of years.

 

In my map, the central, southern sea gate leads to a tunnel which bypasses Karzahni entirely. Karzahni has its own dome (just like BS01 says) and the only ways to access it are the light-devouring tunnel that is, according to my theory, dug in the dome wall between Metru Nui and Karzahni, and a southern gateway leading to the vicinity of Zakaz, which was probably used as a shipping route back when Matoran still came and went from Karzahni but which later became blocked somehow (BIONICLE: World says something about all the sea routes to Karzahni having dried up).

 

I don't see this as too much of an issue. The internal gravity held the different places of the MU in place, and the joints probably had a system that "redirected" passengers in a way. They just went from one sea gate to the next, and probably never had reason to believe anything had changed (I don't know if my answer makes sense, but it's pretty clear in my own mind...)

Yes, I agree, gravity manipulation probably compensated for the robot's motions. I would add that, before the clash between robots on Bara Magna I doubt that the Great Spirit Robot had need to make particularly brusque movements. Mata Nui probably took it slowly, allowing his internal gravity all the time it needed to make adjustments.

 

Looking at this piece of concept art again, what if the southern continent were actually curled around the upper half of the Karda Nui sphere, with a concentric outer sphere serving as its sky? It might make a bit more sense spatially, accounting for Karda Nui's massive volume while still leaving room for the southern continent to have a huge surface area.

 

I don't think you should pay that concept art much heed. As Toatapio Nuva has said, those original plans were greatly rivisited. For instance, according to that representation, Karda Nui is a sphere, with half of it filled with water (presumably from the waterfall). However, in BL10 we see Karda Nui thousands of years before the Great Cataclysm and, at the time, the Codrex was positioned on the floor of the cavern. If it had been at the bottom of the sphere, then it would have been submerged by the water, but when the Toa Nuva arrive they still find it on the surface.

 

So the bottom of Karda Nui is flat. I don't know about the top, I suppose it could either be flat as well or a half-sphere. Above it, in any case, there's the Southern Continent dome, which, as you say, might be more or less a second, wider sphere; in the concept art it is absent but it is absolutely necessary, so there really is almost nothing accurate in the concept art's representation (only the hole in the sea floor, perhaps).

[Toatapio Nuva]

 

Looking at this piece of concept art again, what if the southern continent were actually curled around the upper half of the Karda Nui sphere, with a concentric outer sphere serving as its sky? It might make a bit more sense spatially, accounting for Karda Nui's massive volume while still leaving room for the southern continent to have a huge surface area.

 

This is the way I also consider the Southern Continent to be. It may not be canon, but makes a lot more sense.

 

 

Actually, the position of Karzahni is one of the reasons I don't like that map.

 

What's wrong with its position? Karzahni certainly was never depicted as particularly large, meaning it could fit in the central passageway pretty easily.

 

 

If Karzahni had stood in the middle of the central, largest sea gate (which in BIONICLE: World is stated to be the way to sail to Xia), someone would have noticed it. True, as you say, any explorers might not have returned, but it still seems odd that it would have remained so isolated for tens of thousands of years.

 

This information from BIONICLE: World is new to me. Was it specifically stated that there were three sea gates, with the middle one leading to Xia? This doesn't make much sense to me, especially considering that the central passage would actually lead to Zakaz, which was also known to be dangerous.

 

It could be that the Matoran didn't know of the central sea gate at all. Remember, it was really long ago that Turaga of different lands stopped shipping Matoran there, so it makes sense the place would be forgotten. And even though the passageway itself is quite large, the gate itself might be small enough to not be noticed. If the Matoran only habitually used the two other seagates, they would have no reason to even explore the area between them, allowing Karzahni to stay hidden.

 

 

In my map, the central, southern sea gate leads to a tunnel which bypasses Karzahni entirely. Karzahni has its own dome (just like BS01 says) and the only ways to access it are the light-devouring tunnel that is, according to my theory, dug in the dome wall between Metru Nui and Karzahni, and a southern gateway leading to the vicinity of Zakaz, which was probably used as a shipping route back when Matoran still came and went from Karzahni but which later became blocked somehow (BIONICLE: World says something about all the sea routes to Karzahni having dried up).

 

An alternate route through the central passageway bypassing Karzahni is definitely a possibility. This is also the only reasonable explanation if we are to assume there are more than two seagates. It's never been made clear in the canon how many there are supposed to be.

 

 

I don't think you should pay that concept art much heed. As Toatapio Nuva has said, those original plans were greatly rivisited.

 

 

there really is almost nothing accurate in the concept art's representation (only the hole in the sea floor, perhaps).

 

While it's true that the concept art isn't canon as such, it does show how the positioning of Karda Nui was supposed to make sense. Therefore I would use it as a suggestion for how to reconcile discrepancies in the canon. At least it makes for a somewhat satisfactory explanation for head-canon. Why Greg (or whoever made the decision) decided to substitute the original idea for the currently one, I have no idea.

 

 

For instance, according to that representation, Karda Nui is a sphere, with half of it filled with water (presumably from the waterfall). However, in BL10 we see Karda Nui thousands of years before the Great Cataclysm and, at the time, the Codrex was positioned on the floor of the cavern. If it had been at the bottom of the sphere, then it would have been submerged by the water, but when the Toa Nuva arrive they still find it on the surface.

 

One important thing to note about the Codrex is that it was somehow fused to a fallen stalactite, which means this had to happen after the Great Cataclysm. I have no idea how it ended up in the position it did.

 

So the bottom of Karda Nui is flat. I don't know about the top, I suppose it could either be flat as well or a half-sphere. Above it, in any case, there's the Southern Continent dome, which, as you say, might be more or less a second, wider sphere;

 

Nowhere has it been stated that the bottom of Karda Nui is flat. What has been stated is that it was partly filled with sand, which made it possible to walk on "solid ground" within it.

[Planetperson]

I'm aware that that depiction of Karda Nui is just concept art, I was just speaking hypothetically of a way to possibly smooth over some aspects of the MU's geography that seem less than plausible in my mind. Anyway, I sometimes get the feeling that Faber's artwork represents a more faithful vision of the concepts underlying the Bionicle universe, or at the very least one that makes more sense visually (whereas Greg has repeatedly stated that he "thinks in words, not pictures").

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

I understand that the gravity would be compensated, but would the gravity really make a difference in the perceived direction one is going?