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It's all been a bit confusing while watching, honestly. I'm making some inferences, but one of the things he showed early on was a timeline of storytelling, and the VR, etc. was a heavy focus of current storytelling techniques.

One of the things he specifically talked about was that Bionicle parts are going to be incredibly valuable because they're completely a thing of the past.

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Based on what he's said, I don't think there actually has been any talks yet. Today was "the first day of the journey," and from what I can tell, he was supposed to have the first meetings with other people a couple of days before today, but these were cancelled due to coronavirus. I could be wrong about that, though.

Also, the hashtag "#14B2020" literally means "One (Faber) for BIONICLE (or something like it) in 2020"

EDIT: The goal of the hashtag was more to be a self-imposed deadline to create the pitch(es) rather than the release of something more final.

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5 minutes ago, AZBlue said:

It's all been a bit confusing while watching, honestly. I'm making some inferences, but one of the things he showed early on was a timeline of storytelling, and the VR, etc. was a heavy focus of current storytelling techniques.

One of the things he specifically talked about was that Bionicle parts are going to be incredibly valuable because they're completely a thing of the past.

I imagine that he is referring to no new Bionicle sets from lego. as aren't they already valuable as its been 5 years since G2 and 20 years since G1?

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23 minutes ago, AZBlue said:

It's all been a bit confusing while watching, honestly. I'm making some inferences, but one of the things he showed early on was a timeline of storytelling, and the VR, etc. was a heavy focus of current storytelling techniques.

One of the things he specifically talked about was that Bionicle parts are going to be incredibly valuable because they're completely a thing of the past.

Maybe the instructions will be posted online, and we will build the models ourselves?

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You guys are making my brain hurt. Lol. No offense. Anyway, I live in America, so do I have to wait for something to happen at 8:20 pm, if I understand correctly? Just asking. 
 

The anticipation is driving me crazy.

I like Lego, Bionicle, and Hero Factory!:)

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Been following Faber's IG since last year when he first teased #14B2020, I totally forgot my BZP password but this news is enough for me to miraculously remember it and break the silence.

So Faber is in talks with people. He will be attending meetings. The door is open to Bionicle returning in some shape or form, and he's inviting all of us on the journey.

This is really exciting. It may not pan out - Faber says this is no confirmation of anything - but for me, this is confirmation of something important: That there is still interest in Bionicle. To be able to have an open discussion about that is quite exciting. No more cryptic updates. Next we'll know for sure, but until then hope has been successfully instilled.

5 hours ago, Laval- Master of Energy said:

Maybe the instructions will be posted online, and we will build the models ourselves?

Based on what Faber was saying about parts being discontinued and that everything we own is rare and important, this sounds likely. I would be okay with the story continuing in some way while the character models are posted to us to build with our existing parts. Or an extension of those canonization contests back in the day where the fans build the characters?

Either way, count me in. I really hope this works out!

-NotS

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No offense to Faber, but his stream is too long and he's talking around the information. How hard is it to say "I have a proposal to Lego to Bring Back Bionicle as a VR thing, but it got postponed because of corona, so the big day is a flop?"

On the positive side, maybe Faber bringing us along for the journey will tell people how to get ideas approved by Lego and how hard the process is and what really goes into it, so people stop making irrational assumptions about it.

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The way I understood the info, is that Lego does not want anything anymore with CCBS because of environmental costs (kinda weird considering how much plastic those big DUPLO bricks need), and that he wanted to pitch AR/VR tech into it for a more story-focused approach.

As I mentioned in another Discord server, I immediately thought of the recent new bioplastics they introduced in their plant parts; it sounds like an opportunity for LEGO to pioneer and master this new material with a G3/new constraction line - in a way it reminds me of how Valve pushes new tech to its limits when they make a new HL game (recent example: Half Life Alyx & VR).

I'm into this with no expectation at all, and I'm willing to wait as much as it's needed - he's the mastermind behind Bionicle's original concept, and whether it's a continuation or a brand new concept, I have no doubt he has not lost his touch 20 years later.

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8 hours ago, admiraltyphoon said:

he's the mastermind behind Bionicle's original concept

I thought that was Bob Thompson. 

I agree with you though - we don't need a rush job here. That could give us another G2-style disaster. Let's take it easy and sip some tea. 

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52 minutes ago, 1womanarmy said:

I thought that was Bob Thompson. 

I agree with you though - we don't need a rush job here. That could give us another G2-style disaster. Let's take it easy and sip some tea. 

nope! it was Alastair Swinnerton! nice try tho! :) 

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20 hours ago, Lenny7092 said:

So, what are we going to do now? Wait for the coronavirus to be gone, so Faber can tell us the rest of the stuff? Faber said a lot of things. I know that he’s not April Fooling anyone, but he is still cryptic.

He's not being cryptic. He said next time he gets back to us, there will either by a "yay" or a "nay". He is talking to people, was supposed to be attending meetings with them before the pandemic went widespread.

18 hours ago, 1womanarmy said:

No offense to Faber, but his stream is too long and he's talking around the information. How hard is it to say "I have a proposal to Lego to Bring Back Bionicle as a VR thing, but it got postponed because of corona, so the big day is a flop?"

I have to assume there is some sort of NDA attached. He doesn't own Bionicle, so I don't think he would be able to discuss the talks he's had with his potential partners freely. He was being vague but at least we know something is happening behind the scenes.

2 hours ago, TheZOMBIEJ said:

nope! it was Alastair Swinnerton! nice try tho! :) 

Regardless of who came up with the initial concept, there was no singular mastermind behind the creation of Bionicle. Faber was a huge part of the franchise from beginning to end; the visual style we know and love comes directly from his mind. So to me, he's one of, if not the most influential creators behind the line and someone I absolutely trust to deliver us something worthy of the name.

-NotS

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21 minutes ago, Bonkle said:

Gotta say, I LOVE G1's story but I can't make myself care if there are no sets involved.

While it's nice to have merch to collect, I find this to be a rather shallow take on all this. No franchise ought to be defined by material objects over the scope and significance of its narrative; if the toys are more important than the story, then the writers have failed at their craft. And, frankly, our wallets will thank us all if we're buying less bonks.

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17 hours ago, Sir Keksalot said:

While it's nice to have merch to collect, I find this to be a rather shallow take on all this. No franchise ought to be defined by material objects over the scope and significance of its narrative; if the toys are more important than the story, then the writers have failed at their craft. And, frankly, our wallets will thank us all if we're buying less bonks.

That's a fair point, but to me, the appeal of the Bionicle story is how well put together it was despite being centered around toys. It never gets so good that you forget it's all to sell toys (except maybe towards the end with some of the serials, but then those aren't the best in terms of storyline always...) It's impressive what the writers did to make it feel real even though it does get a little thin at times. (Collect all the Krana because... it uh... stops the Bohrok. It just does. We totally don't want your money...)

So for franchises like this, half the enjoyment I get from the story is being able to have physical representations of the characters, because again the story never gets so deep that it's totally self-sufficient. I can enjoy the exploits of the Toa while also knowing to some degree everything they do is driven by a need to sell toys, so if that's the case might as well have some of those toys. I cannot see a fiction-only Bionicle working that isn't incredibly edgy and self-important or one that doesn't completely lose all the charm that made the original so awesome.

Similarly, very, very few of the sets would interest me at all without knowing the stories behind the characters. Brutaka may look cool but what really drives me to that set is his interesting character. This is a franchise that's co-dependent on toys and stories and I cannot see myself getting interested with just one or the other involved.

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On 4/2/2020 at 12:10 PM, TheZOMBIEJ said:

nope! it was Alastair Swinnerton! nice try tho! :) 

I can't tell if this is a joke or not. 

On 4/2/2020 at 2:58 PM, Nidhiki of the Shadows said:

I have to assume there is some sort of NDA attached. He doesn't own Bionicle, so I don't think he would be able to discuss the talks he's had with his potential partners freely. He was being vague but at least we know something is happening behind the scenes.

This is a fair point, but that doesn't mean he is functionally incapable of being concise. He could say "I have a proposal for something going on with Lego that could be a Bionicle thing but I'm not sure how this will turn out and I can't say anything but it's all very exciting! Also the coronavirus got in the way and delayed the meeting."

23 hours ago, Bonkle said:

Gotta say, I LOVE G1's story but I can't make myself care if there are no sets involved.

We don't know that this is not the case. Besides, even if they are not, I suspect that there will be instructions for sets built into the thing that we can build using existing parts. Or like if it's a game, many people will take out existing parts and make MoCs for it. So I think sets will be involved, even if there aren't any new ones.

The obvious problem with that model is if you don't have any old Bionicle sets left or you never got the chance to buy them in the first place. For example, I have tons of G2 parts but not nearly as many G1 parts, which could prove annoying if the instructions have spaces for, say, Titan Mata Nui's shoulders or something.

I'm hoping for a Bionicle MMORPG out of this one to be honest, or at least something in league with Glatorian Arena 3. I hope Lego licenses it out to Advance so we don't get like severe chat restrictions and the asking price to buy it isn't sky-high. 

22 hours ago, Sir Keksalot said:

And, frankly, our wallets will thank us all if we're buying less bonks.

If this is a game like I think it is, I mean, games ain't free either. Faber and his creative team have to eat somehow. I can't remember what it cost for premium Chima online and Lego Universe, but it was high enough to make me pass on it. Over time, a game subscription can easily add up to more money than the $150-$200 it was to buy the entire 2015 Bionicle wave. And if this is full VR, VR equipment represents a monetary investment as well. 

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6 hours ago, Bonkle said:

I cannot see a fiction-only Bionicle working that isn't incredibly edgy and self-important or one that doesn't completely lose all the charm that made the original so awesome.

Even if an actually good writer is put behind it instead of Greg? Nothing about Bionicle requires it to be for selling toys; in fact, the narrative can be freed up without having to shove in new characters and concepts all the time to shoehorn the toys into the story. I mean, it's kinda ridiculous how often the number 6 comes up. 6 Toa to every team that matters, 6 classes of every generic enemy, 6 members of every team of baddies...it gets kinda old and IIRC it's never really explained, like "The Great Beings had OCD" or something. And there are so many characters who show up briefly and hardly get touched again outside of serials, so many forced story elements like the frequent transformations and Takua changing his name on the spot for no obvious reason (all they had to do was say Takua is a diminutive of Takanuva...why, man?). The worldbuilding got piled onto so heavily that the lore became downright esoteric unless you'd been following it from day one, and it didn't even tie into itself enough to truly qualify as "deep." All because Lego had toys to sell and needed to contextualize them in-universe.

No toys means more creative freedom, which almost always means a better story. I don't see why the Toa need to transform every year unless it's really necessary for the story to work.

38 minutes ago, 1womanarmy said:

If this is a game like I think it is, I mean, games ain't free either. Faber and his creative team have to eat somehow. I can't remember what it cost for premium Chima online and Lego Universe, but it was high enough to make me pass on it. Over time, a game subscription can easily add up to more money than the $150-$200 it was to buy the entire 2015 Bionicle wave. And if this is full VR, VR equipment represents a monetary investment as well. 

Oh, obviously Faber has to profit from this; but one AAA game, if it's even that, won't cost $150-200. I do hope it's not VR; they'd probably get more exposure with an RPG of some sort. And I really hope it's not VR, which is probably too niche to make bank on to begin with.

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20 hours ago, Sir Keksalot said:

Even if an actually good writer is put behind it instead of Greg?

Keep in mind the context here; Faber might be a jaw-droppingly amazing concept artist, but an actual writer he is not. Faber and the team at Advance made the “Invasion From Below” TV episode that had no storytelling depth and crashed Hero Factory. So if making a setless Bionicle is beyond the storytelling skills of Greg Farshtey, Faber and Advance are hopelessly underwater. 

Further, starting with art and not focusing on story is what crashed Bionicle G2. I still have so much beautiful art from G2 still on my hard drive, but the story limped, and we all know what happened. 

I did see Faber’s “Evolution of Storytelling diagram” in his stream, so maybe he’s learned his lesson. The problem is, the Rebel Nature thing hasn’t produced a story either: all art, no story. Writing a story is a skill - I’m in college for creative writing, so I would know - and there are parts to it, like characters and theme and plot and conflict, and how all of those parts work together with the person’s writing voice and character voices. You can’t just skip over an entire area of expertise, and if you don’t want to learn it, you have to hire it. I’m not sure Faber is ready to swallow his pride enough to do either. 

Greg had some problems with not making his characters all sound the same, but he kept the Bionicle storyline alive for ten years. I’d breathe much easier if I knew he was writing the story here. At least he is an actual writer. Faber + Greg = Bionicle G1. 

20 hours ago, Sir Keksalot said:

Oh, obviously Faber has to profit from this; but one AAA game, if it's even that, won't cost $150-200.

I was thinking they would go on the subscription model for a MMORPG, like Lego Universe or Chima Online. Check out the price table for Lego Universe: https://brickset.com/article/656/lego-universe-subscription-costs 

Chima online had premium bricks that made gameplay easier/much faster. Purchases of them could run up to $60 for a pack. 

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10 minutes ago, 1womanarmy said:

Keep in mind the context here; Faber might be a jaw-droppingly amazing concept artist, but an actual writer he is not. Faber and the team at Advance made the “Invasion From Below” TV episode that had no storytelling depth and crashed Hero Factory. So if making a setless Bionicle is beyond the storytelling skills of Greg Farshtey, Faber and Advance are hopelessly underwater. 

I didn't necessarily mean Faber, just anyone qualified. Hopefully, Faber has the sense to hire a writer who has proven his/her mettle. And it's quite likely that nobody in charge of IFB actually put in any, well...effort into the thing. I feel like apathy more than incompetence was the driving force there.

11 minutes ago, 1womanarmy said:

I was thinking they would go on the subscription model for a MMORPG

I hope not, subscription models are incredibly sleazy. Just let me buy the game once and charge me for DLC/skins/whatever, as long as it's not P2W or lootboxes.

18 minutes ago, 1womanarmy said:

Chima online had premium bricks that made gameplay easier/much faster. Purchases of them could run up to $60 for a pack. 

So...P2W? Imma pass, chief.

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Nothing about Bionicle requires it to be for selling toys; in fact, the narrative can be freed up without having to shove in new characters and concepts all the time to shoehorn the toys into the story.

Bionicle has always been a toyline, how can it be that without sets? And how will the makers get any money if there's no sold products involved?

Quote

No toys means more creative freedom, which almost always means a better story.

That's what Greg said when he said he'd continue Bionicle through the serials, and look how that turned out.

 

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43 minutes ago, Sir Kohran said:

Bionicle has always been a toyline, how can it be that without sets?

Uh...it can't? And I never said it could? And my entire point was that it doesn't have to be?

43 minutes ago, Sir Kohran said:

And how will the makers get any money if there's no sold products involved?

I dunno, how does any movie/TV/vidya franchise make bank?

44 minutes ago, Sir Kohran said:

That's what Greg said when he said he'd continue Bionicle through the serials, and look how that turned out.

Greg's also not a good writer, and he kinda gave up on the serials entirely, so that didn't help.

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Uh...it can't? And I never said it could? And my entire point was that it doesn't have to be?

So are you saying Bionicle could or should become a book series or web story or something different to what it used to be?

I dunno, how does any movie/TV/vidya franchise make bank?

With Bionicle, the main money was always in the sets, the other stuff was only made to help with that.

Greg's also not a good writer, and he kinda gave up on the serials entirely, so that didn't help.

Whatever you think of him, I think the basic point is that a story that isn't part of or connected to something else (the sets in this case) doesn't seem to do too well.

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58 minutes ago, Sir Kohran said:

So are you saying Bionicle could or should become a book series or web story or something different to what it used to be?

I'm saying it can be highly beneficial to Bionicle as a narrative because of the added creative freedom. It doesn't need to go that route, but if it did, it would open up new storytelling venues and remove unnecessary baggage, which I've explained in a previous post.

1 hour ago, Sir Kohran said:

With Bionicle, the main money was always in the sets, the other stuff was only made to help with that.

We're talking about a hypothetical scenario where Bionicle exists without a toyline and the story comes first. My point is that there are lots of franchises that consist solely of the work of fiction used to deliver their narrative and nothing else, save for some merch which other companies acquired the rights to sell.

1 hour ago, Sir Kohran said:

Whatever you think of him, I think the basic point is that a story that isn't part of or connected to something else (the sets in this case) doesn't seem to do too well.

...because of Greg's personal failures as a writer and decision to give up entirely. Unless you mean the financial viability of the story and not its quality; in which case, Lego didn't even try to profit from the serials, so that's the chief reason why they didn't produce any moolah.

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8 hours ago, Sir Keksalot said:

I didn't necessarily mean Faber, just anyone qualified. Hopefully, Faber has the sense to hire a writer who has proven his/her mettle. And it's quite likely that nobody in charge of IFB actually put in any, well...effort into the thing. I feel like apathy more than incompetence was the driving force there.

Out of curiosity, have you seen this?

That’s where I got my assessment of IFB being all about art. He doesn’t talk much about story other than to say that they had to fit all of the products in. 

This topic is talking about Faber bringing Bionicle back, though. I think it’s important to understand what we can and can’t expect from him. If anyone wanted to do it, you have to have writing and art, at least. There’s a visual component to Bionicle which is important, even without the sets.

The counterpoint to this would be the Mata Nui Rising video, which does have some really complex story elements in there involving the Mask of Life and Makuta taking over, but without Greg’s story to explain, it may not have worked as well as it did or have been such an epic moment. That’s why I’m using IFB as an example of “Faber without Greg”, as opposed to the Mata Nui Rising Video, which is what Advance is capable of with the Bionicle story team behind them.

8 hours ago, Sir Keksalot said:

I hope not, subscription models are incredibly sleazy. Just let me buy the game once and charge me for DLC/skins/whatever, as long as it's not P2W or lootboxes.

I’m with you on this - the story updates could work as DLC. 

But all of that is being incredibly optimistic. They probably will do some weird digital building thing in Lego development with story update videos produced by Advance, with ads for other sets thrown in to annoy us all. But like, it could be totally awesome as a game: build the hero, then put them into action for story stuff and have glorious cutscenes...it would be like the HF Breakout game, only it would have a story and be much better. Maybe more MNOG-like...

6 hours ago, Sir Keksalot said:

My point is that there are lots of franchises that consist solely of the work of fiction used to deliver their narrative and nothing else, save for some merch which other companies acquired the rights to sell.

I mean, if Advance and Ghost can produce a well-written Bionicle theatrical film, I’d be first in line to see it on opening night. I’m pretty sure film franchises are what operate on the model you’ve described. 

In that case Lego would be really stupid to not make sets to accompany the film’s release, though.

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