Nuva Symbols

[Yongxin]

What was the point of nuva symbols in the story? Though I understand that it could have just been a plot device, I always found it redundant for Toa Nuva's powers to be tied to them. Why was it necessary for the Toa Nuva to have their powers limited by those cubes? Did they serve any other purpose?

[Katuko]

I can't remember if it's been stated officially, but the common theory seems to be that they act as a sort of battery because the Nuva's power level is so high now. A regular Toa has an internal storage for elemental energy and some sort of tech for channeling their power. With the increased power that came with their new forms, the Toa Nuva needed more space for channeling tech and had no space left for what we might call an enlarged "elemental battery".The symbols can apparently discern between friend and foe when it comes to possession of them. How they do this has never been explained.

Edited September 9, 2012 by Katuko

[Podu]

Actually I was wondering how did the Toa Nuva access to their elemental powers with their connnection to their suva cut in Karda Nui.

[Katuko]

Arthaka made the symbols, and he could teleport the Nuva through the Karda Nui shields, so it stands to reason that he'd be able to construct the symbols in a manner that let them avoid the shields as well. Even more so since the Toa Mata/Nuva were supposed to go into the Core in the first place, so they would need such functionality.

[bonesiii]

Actually I was wondering how did the Toa Nuva access to their elemental powers with their connnection to their suva cut in Karda Nui.

The symbols do not work through Suva, just to be clear.Anywho, I agree with Katuko. 'Twas a theory I helped originate, heh.In terms of the real-world reason, it should be pretty obvious. They needed to have their powers able to be stolen.In-story, even without the capacity expansion theory, the Nuva had increased powers, and it's generally a rule in Bionicle (and most other such fiction) that increased powers means an increased downside to compensate. If it hadn't been stealing powers, the Kal would have used it whatever it was. It happened to be the ability to steal them, so that's what they based their plotting around.

[Loading...]

How does the Nuva- Cube fit into this?It acted as a lock of sorts for the Bahrag, but was there an actual purpose, or a theorized purpose like with the symbols?

[Roki]

Due to the actual implementation of the Nuva Symbols being a plot device, I'll use another plot device to make sense of it.Destiny.The EP that transformed the Nuva, knew of their destiny and thus knew that in order to face the greater foes in their future, they needed the training of battling without elemental powers and to come together more as a team. By making the Nuva fight against an enemy more powerful than them (perchance wielding some of the same powers Makuta have innately) whilst depowered, they gained the training and experience needed to aid in the completion of their destiny in Karda-Nui. The Nuva had also not lost yet and thus needed to be humbled to prevent them from becoming arrogant. If the Nuva symbols had not have been created, then they would not have lost their powers, and easily beaten their foes, resulting in either the Rahkshi completely defeating the Toa Nuva in the MoL saga or the Karda Nui Makuta defeating them.This in turn causes them not to complete their destiny and awaken Mata-Nui. Though, that's just a cheap way out of a plot hole .-Roki

[Nuparu1995]

Yeah, there was definitely a whole thing where the Nuva Symbols were a plot device. Worked pretty well. :PBut they were a direct link to the Nuva's heightened power, and one way to free the Bahrag, which was vital to the clearing of the island of Mata Nui for the emergence of the Great Spirit Robot from the Aqua Magna sea.

[bonesiii]

How does the Nuva- Cube fit into this?It acted as a lock of sorts for the Bahrag, but was there an actual purpose, or a theorized purpose like with the symbols?

I don't recall if its purpose was confirmed, but there could be any number of possibilities.A big question is if the normal Toa Seal method doesn't work (perhaps due to the cage forming right as the Mata fell in the EP, a theory I had a while back). If not, then the cube bypasses that glitch, enabling the Toa to open the seal when the time comes.Barring specific knowledge about the situation on the island, Artakha might also know that there would be Nuva, needing symbols, but possibly not know there would be villagers in the way or something, and might want the Kal to find the symbols should the Nuva be defeated, glitching, gone evil, haywire, whatnot. Or just not on the island. But this seems dubious.Or it could be a general safeguard for if the Nuva are killed or those things, not time-specific or necessarily intended for the Kal themselves; a group of Matoran could deliver them. As long as it's known for sure there would be Nuva, this makes sense because freeing the Bahrag is so important to the giant robot's functioning properly. Anybody, not just Toa or Kal, could free them. This could simply be an alternative to the normal unlocking method, so would provide a second option in case six Toa were not available. Edited September 10, 2012 by bonesiii

[fishers64]

Actually, it would seem like a complex Bohrok defense mechanism in case their operations were interfered with by Toa. After all, they did build their nest on top of a pool of EP. Artahka would have to know that the Toa Mata would be destined to transform into Toa Nuva upon contact with EP.Could the Bahrag have this information as well, and build their nest on top of that as a contingency plan against that particular group of Toa showing up? Any other group of Toa would have been destroyed by EP, likely as not...and they would have known that if the one team destined to transform fought against them, then they could send the Kal out to get the Nuva symbols? After all, the GBs expected that the Toa would go rogue, or at least suspected that it could happen. They could have programmed the Bahrag to react that way...

[bonesiii]

That makes sense. Although I was under the impression the Bahrag didn't know the EP was there, but not sure.

[fishers64]

I don't have any conclusive evidence either way, but I suspected that they did because they were really arrogant during that Toa Mata/Bahrag fight - "you can't defeat us, ever, ha ha ha." (Or maybe I'm reading C.A. Hapka's books' intrepretation again. )I also suspected that the Bahrag, having lived for 100,000 years, albeit in sporadic installments, would learn this kind of thing after awhile. And it is possible that the GBs might have just been involved, without the Bahrag specifically knowing. They could have just told the Bahrag to build their nest where they did every time.

Edited September 10, 2012 by fishers64

[Toa Nidhiki05]

Due to the actual implementation of the Nuva Symbols being a plot device, I'll use another plot device to make sense of it.Destiny.The EP that transformed the Nuva, knew of their destiny and thus knew that in order to face the greater foes in their future, they needed the training of battling without elemental powers and to come together more as a team. By making the Nuva fight against an enemy more powerful than them (perchance wielding some of the same powers Makuta have innately) whilst depowered, they gained the training and experience needed to aid in the completion of their destiny in Karda-Nui. The Nuva had also not lost yet and thus needed to be humbled to prevent them from becoming arrogant.If the Nuva symbols had not have been created, then they would not have lost their powers, and easily beaten their foes, resulting in either the Rahkshi completely defeating the Toa Nuva in the MoL saga or the Karda Nui Makuta defeating them.This in turn causes them not to complete their destiny and awaken Mata-Nui. Though, that's just a cheap way out of a plot hole .-Roki

I have a similar theory about the quests for the Kanohi and Kanohi Nuva - the Toa never actually used them against the Makuta and didn't even have all of their mask powers as Kaita. Strictly speaking, the Golden Kanohi didn't even give any real advantage over the regular ones since it wasn't more powerful and you couldn't use two powers at once. I think the Turaga used the Masks as a way to train the Toa and give them experience and lessons in unity and teamwork, which they needed against Makuta and the Kal. The reason they would know this would be Vakama's visions, which would be able to show such things.-TN05 Edited September 11, 2012 by Toa Nidhiki05

[The Iron Toa]

I remember they used their Kanohi against Makuta in the animations, and each of the Kaita had access to all of the three mask powers of his constituent Toa (I don't remember them using them though). But I also don't see what the big deal is with Golden Kanohi if they can only use one power at a time and masks can be switched with the Suva almost instantly. Sometimes the Suva is inaccessible, but that only came up in Karda Nui when they didn't have golden masks anymore anyway.

[bonesiii]

We do already know that the Turaga used the mask searches to test the Toa. Not so much to give them practice but to prove they were trustworthy to the Turaga. The Nuva/Mata had a long history of training and experience prior to entering the canisters, and that skill was retained, though the conscious memories of it was not. That said, I'm sure more practice was helpful and the Turaga would have known that too.However, the Golden Kanohi did give significant advantage. The amount of time between each mask usage is much smaller than if you had to teleport them to the Suva. And best yet, they provided Suva Security. A Kal-style theft of their masks from their Suva would become impossible. On the other hand, you could destroy them all in one fell swoop from their face if you were skilled enough, so pros and cons. But I think if I was a Toa, I would want my masks where I am responsible for their protection, having elemental power and the ability to use the masks' powers to protect myself, rather than in a village guarded by powerless Matoran.Later at Metru Nui, and possibly at other locations, Matoran had tools and weapons of power (like Kanoka launchers) that could make them more effective guards, and of course many Toa don't use multiple masks anyways.As for collecting the Kanohi Nuva, even though they can share powers, they can only do that if near each other, so collecting multiple powers then makes sense too.Really, all Toa would want Suva and/or Golden Kanohi if they could get them. In all likelihood the only reason the story dropped them out later is that they added unwieldy complexity to the plot and would have been a repetitive side detail to have to keep introducing to each new generation of fans. They worked great for the start, but not so much later, plotwise.In-story, the explanation is probably that the Nuva needed more power since they were a strike force that got the whole ball rolling of undoing Makuta's entrenched, thousand-year hold on that island, but later on did not need so much. (And after 2003 they usually stayed together, so sharing alone was enough.) Other Toa had lesser missions or did not have time or guards to set up such thing, the Inika's were organic anyways so probably wouldn't work with Golden Kanohi, etc.

[Katuko]

But I also don't see what the big deal is with Golden Kanohi if they can only use one power at a time and masks can be switched with the Suva almost instantly. Sometimes the Suva is inaccessible, but that only came up in Karda Nui when they didn't have golden masks anymore anyway.

We do already know that the Turaga used the mask searches to test the Toa. Not so much to give them practice but to prove they were trustworthy to the Turaga. The Nuva/Mata had a long history of training and experience prior to entering the canisters, and that skill was retained, though the conscious memories of it was not. That said, I'm sure more practice was helpful and the Turaga would have known that too.However, the Golden Kanohi did give significant advantage. The amount of time between each mask usage is much smaller than if you had to teleport them to the Suva.

I agree with this. If we can go by MNOG as the canonical switch time, then the switch appeared to take a second of concentration followed by another second to actually switch. Perhaps it was just one second in total if we count non-fight cutscenes, though then we have no idea when the Toa started concentrating on switching. But let's take Onua vs Lewa: It didn't come into play here because Onua could see Lewa coming from a mile away, but if you're using a Pakari and suddenly need to block at closer range, that two-second delay before the Hau is ready can be the difference between life or death.Golden Kanohi also have the advantage of being "disguised". You can see that the mask is golden and that it might possess more than one power, but even so you have no idea what power is getting thrown at you. Lhikan's Hau had just one power, and that was Shielding, fitting the shape. If Lewa trotted in with his golden Kanohi, however, people might get taken off-guard when he Speeds towards them instead of using Levitation. Then they might assume "OK, he's got a Kakama molded into the shape of a Miru", only to be taken off-guard again when he suddenly has Pakari-enhanced strength as well. Followed by them jumping back and trying a projectile, but nooope, Lewa's got a Hau too. Edited September 12, 2012 by Katuko

[The Legendary TNT]

But I also don't see what the big deal is with Golden Kanohi if they can only use one power at a time and masks can be switched with the Suva almost instantly. Sometimes the Suva is inaccessible, but that only came up in Karda Nui when they didn't have golden masks anymore anyway.

We do already know that the Turaga used the mask searches to test the Toa. Not so much to give them practice but to prove they were trustworthy to the Turaga. The Nuva/Mata had a long history of training and experience prior to entering the canisters, and that skill was retained, though the conscious memories of it was not. That said, I'm sure more practice was helpful and the Turaga would have known that too.However, the Golden Kanohi did give significant advantage. The amount of time between each mask usage is much smaller than if you had to teleport them to the Suva.

I agree with this. If we can go by MNOG as the canonical switch time, then the switch appeared to take a second of concentration followed by another second to actually switch. Perhaps it was just one second in total if we count non-fight cutscenes, though then we have no idea when the Toa started concentrating on switching. But let's take Onua vs Lewa: It didn't come into play here because Onua could see Lewa coming from a mile away, but if you're using a Pakari and suddenly need to block at closer range, that two-second delay before the Hau is ready can be the difference between life or death.Golden Kanohi also have the advantage of being "disguised". You can see that the mask is golden and that it might possess more than one power, but even so you have no idea what power is getting thrown at you. Lhikan's Hau had just one power, and that was Shielding, fitting the shape. If Lewa trotted in with his golden Kanohi, however, people might get taken off-guard when he Speeds towards them instead of using Levitation. Then they might assume "OK, he's got a Kakama molded into the shape of a Miru", only to be taken off-guard again when he suddenly has Pakari-enhanced strength as well. Followed by them jumping back and trying a projectile, but nooope, Lewa's got a Hau too.

MNOLG isn't canon when it comes to the golden kanohi. Bionicle Chronicles: 1 is technically the canon source. They put all their kanohi onto statues of themselves and *pop* the golden kanohi appeared on the statues (not in those sound effects though, if I remember correctly; it was supposed to sound like bells and laughter).

[Phovos]

Okay, trying to put an answer together. I'm not familiar with the Storylines and Theories section, but someone said 'Bohrok-Kal'...I'm wondering, once the Symbols had been placed into the Cube, would the Toa have regained their abilities? To me, it always seemed that the Nuva Symbols will always work as long as they are in the hands of a Toa, Matoran or Turaga. If anyone else has them, the symbols no longer give the Nuva their powers, like when the Kal took them, possibly as a fail safe to stop the Nuva being corrupted or something?Imagine if a Makuta got hold of the Symbols instead of the Bohrok-Kal...Right? Wrong? Maybe?

[bonesiii]

Okay, trying to put an answer together. I'm not familiar with the Storylines and Theories section, but someone said 'Bohrok-Kal'...I'm wondering, once the Symbols had been placed into the Cube, would the Toa have regained their abilities? To me, it always seemed that the Nuva Symbols will always work as long as they are in the hands of a Toa, Matoran or Turaga. If anyone else has them, the symbols no longer give the Nuva their powers, like when the Kal took them, possibly as a fail safe to stop the Nuva being corrupted or something?Imagine if a Makuta got hold of the Symbols instead of the Bohrok-Kal...Right? Wrong? Maybe?

They only get their abilities back if the Symbols get back into the hands/possession of them/allies. If that happened, then they'd be able to just protocage the Bahrag again and make sure the Kal didn't steal the symbols back -- with an all-out attack on the Kal, maybe even more protocages.Therefore, no way Hosea the Kal would allow that. They'd keep and hide the Symbols to make sure the Bahrag stay free and the Toa stay powerless.And I agree about the failsafe thing. Edited September 21, 2012 by bonesiii

[Phovos]

So they had to be powerless for a bit while the Bahrag and the Bohrok could clear the island?What happened to all the Bohrok anyway?

[The Legendary TNT]

Okay, trying to put an answer together. I'm not familiar with the Storylines and Theories section, but someone said 'Bohrok-Kal'...I'm wondering, once the Symbols had been placed into the Cube, would the Toa have regained their abilities? To me, it always seemed that the Nuva Symbols will always work as long as they are in the hands of a Toa, Matoran or Turaga. If anyone else has them, the symbols no longer give the Nuva their powers, like when the Kal took them, possibly as a fail safe to stop the Nuva being corrupted or something?Imagine if a Makuta got hold of the Symbols instead of the Bohrok-Kal...Right? Wrong? Maybe?

They only get their abilities back if the Symbols get back into the hands/possession of them/allies. If that happened, then they'd be able to just protocage the Bahrag again and make sure the Kal didn't steal the symbols back -- with an all-out attack on the Kal, maybe even more protocages.Therefore, no way Hosea the Kal would allow that. They'd keep and hide the Symbols to make sure the Bahrag stay free and the Toa stay powerless.And I agree about the failsafe thing.

Dude, that would make such an interesting alternate universe if the Kal had succeeded. Too bad Takanuva couldn't have gone to it.Back on topic, wouldn't they have to collect all of the Krana again before they could cage the Bahrag again?

[GallifreyanOrigin]

The Nuva Symbols themselves are meant to store the Toa Nuva's excess powers, similar to an external hard drive.As for the Nuva Cube, I'm not sure. The whole thing seems awfully convenient. I mean, didn't Artakha teleport the Nuva Cube to the Bohrok nests? Well, how did he know that that was where he needed to send it? I don't remember anything prophesizing a battle between the Toa and the Bahrag, which is probably because it wasn't intended to happen. The Bohrok were never meant to be awakened until Mata Nui was ready to leave Aqua Magna, and as such, the Bahrag were never meant to be imprisoned in a Toa Seal. And since that was never supposed to happen, then how does the Nuva Cube just happen to be tied to the Bahrag's Toa Seal?

[Toa Axis]

The only point is because there needed to be a reason for their powers to be stolen.They're pretty much a literal plot device.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Kopaka312

[Meta-Mind]

I'm sure we all know the reason (plot-wise) for this, but story-wise?Well, there are a few reasons (I see some have come up in this very topic, too) that I can think of.First off, the Nuva needed the training. Remember that EP is sentient (though that part's retconning, really), and that the Nuva's destiny was to awaken Mata Nui. If they hadn't recieved the training in fighting powerless that they recieved on Mata Nui, they would likely have tried to use more Elemental Powers against the Makuta in Karda Nui - and failed miserably due to the Makuta's vast amounts of power.Secondly (didn't think of this one until I saw Bonesiii bringing it up, actually), the Nuva needed the space. As several people have hypothesized up above, it's possible that regular Toa have different mechanisms for "channeling power" and "creating/manipulating/absorbing power." With the Nuva needing so much space for channeling tech, their elemental powers themselves had to be stored elsewhere. It's possible that this was partly an effect of the EP as well, as it seems much simpler to me to just add some extra size to the Nuva - wasn't each symbol only the size of a Kanohi?Thirdly, the Toa Seal needed the space. The presence of the Nuva Cube seems to be an extension of the symbols - something that happens only when Nuva are involved. Perhaps the seal was "stronger" than a regular Toa Seal (though it never came up), and as such requires some of the Nuva's extra powers?

[GallifreyanOrigin]

Thirdly, the Toa Seal needed the space. The presence of the Nuva Cube seems to be an extension of the symbols - something that happens only when Nuva are involved. Perhaps the seal was "stronger" than a regular Toa Seal (though it never came up), and as such requires some of the Nuva's extra powers?

Possibly, but the Seal was created before the Mata were transformed, and I think that was the point when Artakha teleported the Symbols and the Cube onto Mata Nui. Now, I suppose the Seal could have transformed "with" the Toa, but later on, the Toa Nuva broke the Seal around the Bahrag with just their elemental powers. The Cube wasn't even mentioned. So I somewhat doubt that the Seal needed something stronger to be broken.Actually, I was just looking into an old thread on the matter a few minutes ago in which one poster suggested that the Cube would have acted as a sort of "proxy" had the Kal placed the symbols onto it and as such would have drawn power from the Symbols and fired a beam of energy at the Seal in order to break it. That, to me, suggests that the Cube is less like a "lock" and more like a "key," to be used in the absence of the Toa Nuva (which would explain why the Nuva didn't use the Symbols/Cube when they freed the Bahrag later on).This topic has inspired me to construct my own theory in relation to the Cube, which I should be posting sometime soon. Edited September 23, 2012 by XyzTheDay!

[ColdGoldLazarus]

My personal headcanon (not theory, given that I'm blatantly ignoring half of canon to make sense of the other half) is that the Nuva Symbols and Cube are not actually related to the Nuva transformation, but to the prison they trapped the Bahrag in. When Toa combine their elemental energies to create a seal, a sort of "lock" forms nearby, and the matching keys, one per Toa, appears at said Toa's Suva Shrine in a dormant state.

 

If they wish to undo the seal for whatever reason (and quick note here - I imagine this utility can be used for more than just locking enemies away - it could also be used to block passages, redirect lava or water, and any other funtion that requires a ridiculously solid wall of Crystal Protodermis.) then they simply need to take the keys from their Suvas and place them into the lock. A somewhat difficult task given that after being removed from the Suva until the lock's been undone, the key enters an 'active' state where it channels the Toa's energy in preparation for unlocking, rendering said power inaccessible, so the simpler option is to just funnel one's elemental energy directly into the lock. Of course, creating Crystal Protodermis seals like this renders the Toa vulnerable due to fairly obvious reasons (grand theft toa symbol) and so it isn't done much.

 

This actually renders the Toa Metru's example a bit of an unusual case, but not in a theory-breaking way. Since they didn't really have the chance to have Suvas of their own, no keys were formed upon trapping Makuta, leaving the only option as direct channeling. Roodaka wanted to either coerce the Toa into opening the lock, or if need be, directly drain their energy to use herself, but she also anticipated a losing scenario. (as did actually occur at the end of Web Of Shadows) Thus, she carved out a piece of the lock to keep close, so that any attacks on her would free Makuta regardless. While most locks disappear after being unlocked, though, this shard remained because it had been carved away from the main mass.

 

And that's the true meaning of Naming Day.

[Regitnui]

Braaaaains...

 

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[bonesiii]

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