Hau Nuva used as offence threory

[Hexann]

So, I had been thinking about Hau Nuva for the last pass two years and wondered this: the Hau Nuva is more augmented than the original Hau it has abilities to defend other people as well as the user simultaneously. Now, my theory suggest that it could be utilized as an offencive weapon by throwing a shield around someone, or something, then compressing that shield could smash the opponent of the Hau Nuva user. What I'm wondering is if this would be a legit ability of a Hau Nuva user.

 

Thanks for listening!

Edited May 20, 2013 by Damaracx 7.0

[Shadowhawk]

I'm not sure if the Hau Nuva user actually has the ability to consciously manipulate the area and shape of the defensive force field, which of course is the main factor your theory requires in order to function. So, off-hand, I'd say no. But this is BIONICLE; stranger things have happened.

[Meta-Mind]

I'm not sure if the Hau Nuva user actually has the ability to consciously manipulate the area and shape of the defensive force field, which of course is the main factor your theory requires in order to function. So, off-hand, I'd say no. But this is BIONICLE; stranger things have happened.

Too add on to this: you're thinking of the shield as a solid object, which it doesn't actually seem to be. Since the shield defends soley against attacks (and only attacks) which the user is aware of (in the sense of being both aware they're coming and aware of the specific direction/shape they take), it would seem not to be solid at all. Furthermore, the user's attacks can pass straight through the barrier as if it wasn't there to begin with - if it was "solid," or acted "solid," then attacks from both sides would most likely be impeded.

 

In other words, the Hau is more of a "buff," like the other Mata's Kanohi, than a "solid shield dome," so it will always defend its target even when the power is granted by another.

[Canis Lycaon]

Well, you can only use the Hau if you know there is going to be an attack. So unless the guy was trying to punch you, you wouldn't be able to put the forcefield up. Compressing it probably wouldn't work.

 

What I do think is possible is body slamming someone with the shield.

[bonesiii]

Yeah methinks you'll pretty much get a unanimous opinion that this is impossible, but to be fair we canonically don't know. MNOG's portrayal of it looked like a field that you switch on and then it just acts like a repulsive effect. MOL's portrayal did look like a wall field that turned on and acted solid, but it was around the whole group, so if we go strictly with that portrayal, compressing it would hurt the Hau user too.

 

The one point in this idea's favor is that Greg confirmed Nuva mask sharing could be theoretically used offensively. So Tahu could force someone to be protected from something against their will, but it's really hard to think of a scenario where that could be an attack. The power itself is designed to protect targets, not anything else. Perhaps if an enemy tried to pick up a weapon it could block them off from it but that's about the extent of such a use off the top of my head.

[fishers64]

The one point in this idea's favor is that Greg confirmed Nuva mask sharing could be theoretically used offensively. So Tahu could force someone to be protected from something against their will, but it's really hard to think of a scenario where that could be an attack. The power itself is designed to protect targets, not anything else. Perhaps if an enemy tried to pick up a weapon it could block them off from it but that's about the extent of such a use off the top of my head.

 

If the attack in question would grant the person being attacked a new power, blocking them off from that attack could help. For example, in Power Play when somebody shot a sphere at Hakann and Thok granting them Brutaka's powers, the shield, if it was used could theoretically block them off from that. (I know, the Toa Nuva were imprisoned then, but that's the idea.)

 

Also might help if a foe has selective limited invulnerability or power-copying abilities like Reidak or Vezok. Using such a sheild might make those abilities harder to use.

[Makuta Matata]

I think that you could body slam someone with the shield as an offensive move, but that would probably be the extent of it.

[Toa Zaz]

I don't even think it's really supposed to be, like, a geometric force field or something like that, because then they would be impervious to attacks from behind. I think it just is supposed to offer the user personal protection from visible attacks. It's probably more like the original comics, where it's not really a field around them.

[airvortex]

Hmm... the Hau Nuva used for offence... First of all, does it send a mental backlash on the user if the shield is broken? Because then I do see how it could be used offensively, but not really how otherwise.

 

Unless by putting a shield around an enemy you could keep something inside, then it could be very useful. (e.g. dangerous rahi, noxious gases, a mine of some kind etc.)

[fishers64]

One idea is that the Hau could stop a user of a mask of Intangibility from getting past them into somewhere they weren't supposed to go. "The energies of the mask might do nasty things to you" is Greg's comment on that, so that might be an effective attack in a small space.

[Kopekemaster]

 

I'm not sure if the Hau Nuva user actually has the ability to consciously manipulate the area and shape of the defensive force field, which of course is the main factor your theory requires in order to function. So, off-hand, I'd say no. But this is BIONICLE; stranger things have happened.

Too add on to this: you're thinking of the shield as a solid object, which it doesn't actually seem to be. Since the shield defends soley against attacks (and only attacks) which the user is aware of (in the sense of being both aware they're coming and aware of the specific direction/shape they take), it would seem not to be solid at all. Furthermore, the user's attacks can pass straight through the barrier as if it wasn't there to begin with - if it was "solid," or acted "solid," then attacks from both sides would most likely be impeded.

 

In other words, the Hau is more of a "buff," like the other Mata's Kanohi, than a "solid shield dome," so it will always defend its target even when the power is granted by another.

 

Well, in MoL he (Tahu Nuva) used it to protect himself and Takua from lava, which isn't exactly an attack, and the lava kinda splashed off of it, which makes it appear that it is solid.

 

But for the question, I would probably agree with a "No". Meta-Mind makes a good point in showing that attacks can go from the user of the shield outwards, which would probably mean (assuming that the user COULD control the shape) that the shield would just shrink into nothingness without hurting the enemy.

[bonesiii]

Well, in MoL he (Tahu Nuva) used it to protect himself and Takua from lava, which isn't exactly an attack, and the lava kinda splashed off of it, which makes it appear that it is solid.

Well, that was the danger he was aware of, so in that situation it acted solid. The point is that it might not be like switching a wall into or out of existence, but might be like a wall that only behaves as a solid if you're aware of the danger.

 

But that's a debate that could go on forever unless there's a Greg quote to clarify it. Bottom line is we don't know, but it seems like there's no evidence for the shield harming a shared user.

[Katuko]

4) The shield repels even attacking beings, as seen when Onua pushes an infected Lewa away from himself with it. If the shield is up, can a person pass through it if they are calmly walking instead of violently attacking?

4) No.

 

1) The Hau can block almost any physical attack the user is aware of. But can it defend against a physical attack you can't see? Say Vakama turned invisible with his Huna and struck at Tahu. If Tahu knew Vakama would try to do that, could he block the attack just by anticipating it?

1) No

 

One of the quotes I've got from Greg said that the Hau can block anything the user does not want to pass through the shield, even if it's just a being walking calmly towards them. It will not stop attacks you cannot see, such as a strike from an invisible being standing right in front of you, even if you are prepared for such an attack to occur. If the shield was always solid when active, it would be impossible for said invisible being to strike.Furthermore, an active shield can apparently mess with someone who tries to pass it via being intangible, as Greg said that it might be risky to try.

5) If not, can a Toa using a Mask of Intangibility or a Rahkshi with Density Control do so?

5) I wouldn't suggest that, as the energy of the mask might do nasty things to you

 

It can, however, block "instant" attacks such as laser beams and even modern-day bullets, so long as the attack has some visual clue for the user to register. You would naturally have to fire up the shield before the attack actually occurs (since you'd not have time to register the bullet coming towards you), but if you can see your attacker you can stop the attack once it comes.As shown with Tahu meeting Nuhvok-Kal, however, invisible/intangible energy waves such as gravity can still affect the being trying to shield themselves.I think the only way you could use the shield offensively is to block a being from passing and then charging into them with the shield active in order to push them away. Sharing the power has given no indication that it's possible to crush someone with a shield. The shield envelops and moves with the target, it does not remain stationary or form a "force bubble" to keep them contained. If you want to prevent someone from moving with a Hau, you would block their way, not give them protection of their own. Edited May 20, 2013 by Katuko

[Axilus Prime]

Judging by MNOG's animations, the comics, and established canon, it's like the Bubble Shield/Drop Shield from Halo. A dome that blocks attacks, but people can walk right through it.

[Hexann]

Oh, ok. I see. It's an impassable barrier to attacks for weapons but, not for beings. Kind of like that one shield in the first Star Wars, right?

 

Thanks!

[Katuko]

Oh, ok. I see. It's an impassable barrier to attacks for weapons but, not for beings. Kind of like that one shield in the first Star Wars, right?

It can stop beings as well if the user doesn't want to let them through. Onua used it to great effect against Lewa, and it would be very hard to stop a physical attacker if they could walk through the shield.

[Meta-Mind]

 

Too add on to this: you're thinking of the shield as a solid object, which it doesn't actually seem to be. Since the shield defends soley against attacks (and only attacks) which the user is aware of (in the sense of being both aware they're coming and aware of the specific direction/shape they take), it would seem not to be solid at all. Furthermore, the user's attacks can pass straight through the barrier as if it wasn't there to begin with - if it was "solid," or acted "solid," then attacks from both sides would most likely be impeded.In other words, the Hau is more of a "buff," like the other Mata's Kanohi, than a "solid shield dome," so it will always defend its target even when the power is granted by another.

Well, in MoL he (Tahu Nuva) used it to protect himself and Takua from lava, which isn't exactly an attack, and the lava kinda splashed off of it, which makes it appear that it is solid.

Judging by MNOG's animations, the comics, and established canon, it's like the Bubble Shield/Drop Shield from Halo. A dome that blocks attacks, but people can walk right through it.

Oh, ok. I see. It's an impassable barrier to attacks for weapons but, not for beings. Kind of like that one shield in the first Star Wars, right? Thanks!

I should probably clarify: in this context, an "anticipated attack" is defined as "movement, object, or action which the user anticipates and defines as dangerous." The Hau can only stop anticipated attacks, and only once they reach a certain distance from the user. When many small objects (such as molecules of molten rock) hit this boundary at once, it creates the percieved effect of a red "field," which deflects the particles off to the sides - this creates the appearance of the lava being deflected by a solid dome. All other instances of a red field appearing at the point of impact can either be chalked up to a mechanic of the Hau (a red flash appears at the boundary around the point of impact, resulting in the appearance of a force-field "dome" appearing where the attack hits) or artistic license.So if the user (let's say Onua, as in the MNOLG) percieves Lewa walking through the barrier as dangerous, Lewa won't be able to get through no matter how slowly and calmly he walks.

 

 

Also of note is the fact that Greg has confirmed that a Huna user could hit through a Hau if the user didn't bother to locate him. This implies that simply anticipating the attack is not enough; there must also be some foreknowledge about where, when, and how the attack will hit.

[Toa Of Virtues]

I see the shield as a semi-permeable field that blocks any known danger, and doesn't affect anything else. That scene in MoL, for instance when Tahu shielded himself and Takua, that shield was not a complete bubble. The shield stopped at the stone wall, or else it would have chopped through the wall. Because of this, I don't think you can body slam someone with a Hau Nuva, since the victim wouldn't be considered a threat. Even if you were falling and put up the field to protect yourself from the ground and someone was caught in-between, I don't think the force field would harm the person due to its semi-permeable properties.

 

I think I may have found a way for it to be used offensively. Let's say an unarmed attacker is charging at you, and right as you turn to see his arm extending about a foot away from your face, you activate the mask and put up the shield. One of two things could happen, the shield could shrink to fit a foot around your body and the attacker gets a broken hand from punching a force field, or, the shield is put up more than a foot away from your body leaving the attackers' arm inside... and the attackers' body still outside, leaving you with an amputated arm.

[Toatapio Nuva]

I see the shield as a semi-permeable field that blocks any known danger, and doesn't affect anything else. That scene in MoL, for instance when Tahu shielded himself and Takua, that shield was not a complete bubble. The shield stopped at the stone wall, or else it would have chopped through the wall. Because of this, I don't think you can body slam someone with a Hau Nuva, since the victim wouldn't be considered a threat. Even if you were falling and put up the field to protect yourself from the ground and someone was caught in-between, I don't think the force field would harm the person due to its semi-permeable properties.

 

I think I may have found a way for it to be used offensively. Let's say an unarmed attacker is charging at you, and right as you turn to see his arm extending about a foot away from your face, you activate the mask and put up the shield. One of two things could happen, the shield could shrink to fit a foot around your body and the attacker gets a broken hand from punching a force field, or, the shield is put up more than a foot away from your body leaving the attackers' arm inside... and the attackers' body still outside, leaving you with an amputated arm.

 

The latter wouldn't work because the shield doesn't work if the attacker is too close. It can't "cut off" anything. I asked this kind of a question personally from Greg once and he said no.

[Katuko]

I was under the impression that that's where the repulsion would come in: if someone tried to go inside the field they would get pushed back by the energy until they were no longer touching it. This would fit with the mask's portrayal in MNOG, it would explain why it's not 100% effective at close range, and it would still not be better than a Mask of Repulsion as far as pushing stuff goes.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Katuko

[Madara: Mangekyou Master]

Hmmm the awareness certainly is interesting. I was always under the impression that Nuhvok-Kal's attack succeeded because he was manipulating forces working inside the shield, as opposed to attempting to penetrate it. That it was effective because Tahu couldn't "see" it coming is something I hadn't thought of.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Madara: Mangekyou Master

[Hexann]

Oh yeah, when I come to think of it, in MNOG when Onua uses the Hau to block Teridax's attack he is hit by an attack from behind by Teridax.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Damaracx 7.0

[Chro]

So Tahu could force someone to be protected from something against their will, but it's really hard to think of a scenario where that could be an attack.

Something with a power similar to Dalu's blades come to mind. If you were able to be hit with such weapons and be affected without being overloaded, then the Hau could be used if you attempted to use the sense/power/strength/speed boost effect on yourself...

[Toatapio Nuva]

 

So Tahu could force someone to be protected from something against their will, but it's really hard to think of a scenario where that could be an attack.

Something with a power similar to Dalu's blades come to mind. If you were able to be hit with such weapons and be affected without being overloaded, then the Hau could be used if you attempted to use the sense/power/strength/speed boost effect on yourself...

 

That wouldn't work because the tools don't produce anything you can defend against. It's basically invisible energy there, so you cannot defend against it.

[Chro]

Oh. I was under the impression that it launched a bolt of (generic) energy or something like that.