Eljay: Toa of Mangosteen

One large, please. Thank you!

White on a mid-range grey. Grey captures the Toa Phantoka and should cover the Mistika. And the white... we'll go with Takanuva's return... or Matoro! Or something like that.

Number 3!

Entry 1: Entry name: Friour Entry image and gallery Entry 2: Entry name: Draylain Entry image and gallery

1. Preorder for the whole thing, I assume? 1a. Also, same vein, you guys said if the goal is met the Kanohi will be of higher quality than before. So will people who get the early masks be getting lower quality Kanohi? 1b. Will you guys be posting status updates are where you are donation-wise? 2. Are they aware you guys are selling it with their logos attached? 3. Selling something with a logo trademarked by a company is still getting money for using their logos, profit or no profit. 3a. If I bought this bundle, and sold it for the same price, would that be alright? Again, no sarcasm. Yes, the entire bundle would be preordered for that price and up. As for the masks, nothing will be sold until we have a better idea of whether or not we can reach the funding goal. Shapeways is of lower quality than injection moulded parts, but do not take that as meaning that it is by any means BAD quality. Think of it more as the best quality given our current resources followed by top quality second only to Lego themselves should we reach our goal. Status updates will be posted just as with updates to the project itself. We're working out a way to put together a status bar for the top post, but we've all been a bit swamped with other priorities as of late. Templar is aware of the method with which we're selling the game, they simply cannot speak for the reaction of Lego. However given that plenty of ACTUAL Lego products are sold and resold on places such as Ebay and the like, I doubt selling what basically amounts to a fan art piece would stir up any more controversy. Well, in that case, my remaining question and concern remains to be the logos and marketing of this. The reason selling a Bionicle set on Ebay is because it's after market. They aren't being made anymore. And when it's sold on Ebay, it's being sold as a used item. Other Lego sets work similarly, and the places selling them are attempting to be Lego, and often claim they aren't associated. Not to mention, when I buy something, it's my property. I can choose to sell it, so long as I'm not claiming to have made it. The reason this is a bit tricky is because, no matter how much you say it is "fan art", it is still using official Lego logos on a non-Lego product. Lego sets on Ebay are official Lego products, so you can't really remove the logos, just everyone understands you aren't Lego, it's used, etc. This is digital content made by a company that Lego hired, using Lego images, Lego, terms, etc, etc. Granted, the game itself is fine, considering it'll be free and what not. So will the custom parts, so long as they have no standard Lego codes or trademarks. It's really just the box and other assorted items with Lego and Templar logos. It's fan created content using logos which people will assume will mean Lego made it. In a way, they did... Just the game, though.

1. Preorder for the whole thing, I assume? 1a. Also, same vein, you guys said if the goal is met the Kanohi will be of higher quality than before. So will people who get the early masks be getting lower quality Kanohi? 1b. Will you guys be posting status updates are where you are donation-wise? 2. Are they aware you guys are selling it with their logos attached? 3. Selling something with a logo trademarked by a company is still getting money for using their logos, profit or no profit. 3a. If I bought this bundle, and sold it for the same price, would that be alright? Again, no sarcasm.

So, I have some comments and questions regarding this project. (Oh, you knew I would) 1. So, after this $2000 kickstarter is funded, are people still gonna have to buy the mask/backpack/box pack? Or are they paying for it in advance now? 2. In what way did Templar approve of this? Did they allow the use of their logos on the packaging? Or will that even still remain? 3. Do you guys honestly think Lego will approve of you guys selling items with their imagery/logos on it? I'm seriously asking this, it's not a sarcastic remark. With that out of the way, my comments will remain at "this looks like some shaky stuff". I can't say I know what the outcome with be, but I am curious to see the answers to the above questions. Thanks.

The urge to make a snarky remark about some prior controversy is strong, but I'll refrain and simply agree, considering I do enjoy Ninjago's story quite a bit. This was quite an interesting look from an interesting perspective indeed. Granted, two things come to mind. 1. I can believe one concept made for fun, but multiple is a little difficult to believe. I can't go into much detail due to the rules, but still. 2. Considering the Lego development process, I doubt that any of the employees would pitch that kind of thing and see how far it goes. =P From what I understand, they figure out some certain things regarding a theme first, design the sets, then stick a story to them. Those are the only two things I can think to make mention of. Otherwise, quite an interesting perspective. LJ

This is absolutely hilarious. Today seems to be a pretty great day. Keep it up, guys. And thanks, GSR. Great idea. XD

aaaaaaaaaaaaaand you're done. after that I don't think many people in this topic are going to back your claims. I beg your pardon, but I edited my post.And I can believe what I want, it doesn't make me sexist. As a break from this annoying subject, hey, Eljay's on! Hi, Eljay! Hi! I swear, this topic is just the funniest thing on BZPower right now. If there is one thing the staff know how to do real well, it's let a topic get so far off topic because they support one side of an argument that it's quite literally entertaining to watch. So, Bionicle. I wonder what would make people think that it's coming back next year... Interesting rumors, huh? I would like to apologize for my former comments, as they were made in poor judgement and shouldn't have been posted. I sincerely apologize.

I vote Pupwa on both.

I vote Burnmad.

Where are these false expectations coming from? I fail to see how anyone can believe that any new Bionicle sets that would be made would be created using the old system. The new system is here to stay. The set designers have said so themselves. There are no plans to get rid of it. Any new Bionicle sets WILL use the HF building system, for it has 100% replaced the one Bionicle used. If we're lucky, it may have some technic integrated, like some HF sets... But I can pretty much guarantee that they will mostly use the HF build system with new parts. I'd suggest looking up a video called "BIONICLE Autopsy: The Return of BIONICLE and How it Would Be Handled". That may give you some idea into how Lego will handle Bionicle... It's fan speculation, but grounded. Very grounded. With some facts. And logical thought.

I'mma vote ShadowVezon.

I'll take Spot 19 and not be inactive this time. (Sorry about that, got a job and life got busy. My apologies)

Why was repeating that build in 2007 suddenly such a problem? After all, the Toa Mata build was repeated for the Toa Nuva in 2002 and Takanuva in 2003, and the Toa Metru build was repeated for the Toa Hagah in 2005. Even the Bohrok had exact clones in the form of the Bohrok-Kal. As I understand it, most people didn't get especially tired of the Inika build until its third year in 2008, and that was partially because people had hoped for new Toa Nuva sets to have a build that better echoed their original designs. There's a reason I consider the Toa Inika build one of the most versatile builds in the history of BIONICLE canister sets. Many sets that used the Toa Inika torso used it with different armor (see: Carapar, Toa Mahri Jaller, Toa Mahri Matoro, Gorast, Mistika Toa Onua, Tarix, Vorox, Vastus, Stronius, and Mata Nui), or sometimes with a different build altogether (see: Mantax, Gadunka, Strakk, and Skrall). Only a handful of sets (Toa Mahri Nuparu, Phantoka Toa Kopaka, Phantoka Toa Lewa, Gelu, and Ackar) used the Toa Inika's torso constructions more or less "as-is", the same way the Toa Inika had used it. Generally, the best parts are the ones that are designed for long-term usefulness, and that is why I love the Toa Inika torso so much. New torsos were introduced for certain sets like Toa Mahri Kongu and the Phantoka Makuta. Other sets, even more admirably, had custom torso designs based almost entirely on existing parts (Ehlek, Takadox, Pridak, Strakk, and Kiina all qualify). And plenty of titan/warrior sets were even able to use the Toa Inika torso very effectively with original armor designs. So it's not like the Toa Inika torso was used as a substitute for creativity. Rather, I feel it was used as a substitute for introducing wasteful new parts that didn't make any real functional improvements on what was already available. Part of why complaints about the Toa Inika torso always bothered me is that people didn't seem bothered because there was any problem in particular they wanted to see improved. They just wanted something new for newness's sake, and wanted an amazingly functional torso to disappear to make way for it. What bothered me about post-2006 canister set series more than their builds (which generally continued to be wonderfully complex and diverse, with sets that reused existing torso designs making up for it in other areas) was the length of their arms and legs. Horrendously gangly proportions were the order of the day, since there was only a limited range of sizes for arms and legs, and since the torso proportions of sets had stayed roughly the same size since 2004 while legs and arms got up to five modules longer. Thankfully, Hero Factory's Character and Creature Building System has fixed that and ultimately restored sets to proportions that often rival 2001–2005 canister sets in terms of how natural they feel. As far as story was concerned, I definitely disagree with this topic's premise. 2007 and 2008 were some of my favorite years for story. Obviously 2001 to 2004 have their own appeal, but they weren't without flaws. The second comic of 2001 ended with a cliffhanger that was never resolved. The Bohrok-Kal storyline felt somewhat tacked-on and had the Toa Nuva go their separate ways, despite two story years' worth of adventures having shown them that they were strongest together, and their new mask powers reinforcing that fact. The scenery of Mata Nui was beautiful, but it also became a bit repetitive to see the same settings every year with few changes, and even have the same sort of "mysterious underground structure" for each and every story arc's final showdown. Now, this doesn't mean I didn't love the early years of BIONICLE, but every BIONICLE story year had its flaws and its merits. I pretty much agree with everything here up to about... Here: I don't exactly understand what you mean by this. I remember it being resolved really quickly in the third comic of 01, with Onua saving Lewa by digging the Muaka underground, and Tahu jumping in to save Gali.

It took them like 4 days to close that Bionicle leaked topic. I doubt they care about a poorly spelled opening. It seems intentionally trolly. I'm surprised (and even slightly unsure) it isn't. Great, personal preference is fine. I have mine as well, my favorite set of all time is Toa Mata Lewa (big surprise). However, just because of that doesn't mean that a blanket statement like "everything from 05 onwards sucks big time" is right. In fact, in my opinion, it's wrong. But that's why it is an opinion. And I'm not totally sure. Because with the Manas, sure, you can make them fight and what not, but with Kardas and Vezon, you can tear it apart and build whatever you want with it. In fact, goes for the grand majority of Bionicle sets from any year. But there were generally (to my knowledge) more parts in canister sets in later years, meaning more possibilities. It seems that everyone dislikes clone sets, and that's fine... So why are the Toa Mata/Toa Nuva/Takanuva liked oh so much more than the Inika/Mahri/Glatorian, aside from nostalgia goggles?

First of all, gee, great spelling in the beginning. I'm surprised the topic wasn't instantly closed. Second of all, from an objective stand point, the sets 04 onwards far surpassed anything from 01 to 03. I really like the sets from the first 3 years, but with your lack of moving elbows and knees, lack of moving necks, and a severe lack of colors, those first years were not as good function and play-wise as say, even just an Inika set. A gear function does not immediately mean +5 better than anything else points. I'll maintain, all the sets did look good, and there will always be a soft spot in my heart for the first three years, but sets from 06, 07, and even 09 are just better sets than those from the first three. (I'll never understand the hatred for the Inika build. It was fine, you people just whine a lot. I'm amazed you're still happy with the HF build system.)

I'll take spot 19.

As Meso pointed out, BZPower is directly partnered with The Lego Group. So yeah, they're gonna find out soon enough. Lego would first send a cease and desist order. If SM.com did not comply, then they'd sue. Or at least threaten to. And trust me, if this hasn't crossed their minds after not only I, but another former member of their team told them multiple times, then I'd like them to refer to my prior post. I really, REALLY doubt they have ANY deal with Lego what so ever, because Lego would never allow this unless they were the one handling it. Also, if Templar is working with them on this, then it's only music related. I doubt they have the time, and I also doubt they'd try and sell any version of it. I think they'd get in trouble as well. Finally, if this causes you to have a "brake down", I'd advise visiting a car repair shop. =P Lol. Assuming that they don't have any deals with anybody, then why invest so much in a project that is so coherently flawed?You have more faith in these people than anybody should have in any newly founded Bionicle fan project. I can no longer assist you. I am so sorry. I didn't mean that as a post defending them, I meant it as an actual question. Why work on something so flawed? Not a very good idea if you ask me... Because as I have come to learn from being a part of this community, a lot of people that start projects with such goals are often naive. And way too hopeful. So BBB members.

As Meso pointed out, BZPower is directly partnered with The Lego Group. So yeah, they're gonna find out soon enough. Lego would first send a cease and desist order. If SM.com did not comply, then they'd sue. Or at least threaten to. And trust me, if this hasn't crossed their minds after not only I, but another former member of their team told them multiple times, then I'd like them to refer to my prior post. I really, REALLY doubt they have ANY deal with Lego what so ever, because Lego would never allow this unless they were the one handling it. Also, if Templar is working with them on this, then it's only music related. I doubt they have the time, and I also doubt they'd try and sell any version of it. I think they'd get in trouble as well. Finally, if this causes you to have a "brake down", I'd advise visiting a car repair shop. =P Lol. Assuming that they don't have any deals with anybody, then why invest so much in a project that is so coherently flawed? You have more faith in these people than anybody should have in any newly founded Bionicle fan project. I can no longer assist you. I am so sorry.

As Meso pointed out, BZPower is directly partnered with The Lego Group. So yeah, they're gonna find out soon enough. Lego would first send a cease and desist order. If SM.com did not comply, then they'd sue. Or at least threaten to. And trust me, if this hasn't crossed their minds after not only I, but another former member of their team told them multiple times, then I'd like them to refer to my prior post. I really, REALLY doubt they have ANY deal with Lego what so ever, because Lego would never allow this unless they were the one handling it. Also, if Templar is working with them on this, then it's only music related. I doubt they have the time, and I also doubt they'd try and sell any version of it. I think they'd get in trouble as well. Finally, if this causes you to have a "brake down", I'd advise visiting a car repair shop. =P

I figure I'll throw in my two cents, cause hey, no critique is for the weak. In regards to the legality of "selling" a remastered MNOG with any form of Lego "set", it's totally, complete, 100%... ... Illegal. MNOG was developed by Templar Studios, so they have their half of ownership by actually making the game. BIONICLE is owned by The Lego Group, so there is their half. If anyone were to use their work, be it Lego's trademarks of Lewa, BIONICLE, Tahu, Takua, etc, in order to make a profit from it while not being in direct contract with Lego, it would be against the law. As far as the "MNOG Takua" goes, that I think would be okay, as BZP has seen many custom Bionicle parts sold, so it seems fine. But a remastered MNOG, in a box, with Lego and Templar trademarks on it? I don't give a dang how "good" it looks "remastered", you're just asking for one of the two of them to come in and say "Yeah, you're done now." I'm fairly sure Lego WOULD come in if they found out about this, given that regardless of it being "abandon ware", it is still theirs, and if they don't want LoMN getting out, what makes anyone think they'd want some fans making money off of a product that allowed Bionicle to take off so well? The idea sounds good on paper, but if you honestly expect to make money off of this as though you actually made the game, or a portion off of it, then I'm sorry, but you need to pick up a law book. ... Or seek help. Quickly.

I figure this is a long shot, but would you happen to have Brutaka and/or Irnakk? Unfortunately, I don't exactly have anything on the list, so cash would be all I can offer, if you'd take that.

I want in on the club! Me too! Drop me a message too, I should be under ToaEljay. Also, if ya got Skype, we have a pretty snazzy group goin', and we play Dota pretty often. So yeah, there's that too. =P -LJ