Breeze Doesn't Look Instantly Like A Girl...

[Gorag]

But every other female robot shown in the TV show follows female anatomy. What's up with that? LEGO obviously isn't afraid of making female LEGO Minifigs, but when it comes to Breeze, you don't instantly think "Oh hey, that's a girl", especially when you have all the other female robots in Makuhero city looking like they do. I'm fine with them making Breeze a girl, but if they had said she was a guy I would have believed them as well. Why is it that LEGO doesn't make her look more feminine? Is it because it would cost more to make a special mold for her?

[Sappholopod]

Is it because it would cost more to make a special mold for her?

That's basically it, why make a specialized torso/armor mold for just one character?

[Larnuu]

Is it because it would cost more to make a special mold for her?

That's basically it, why make a specialized torso/armor mold for just one character?

not to mention that some people had a problem with Roodaka, i'll let you figure that one out, if you do, have a cookie (not really, i won't give you a cookie)

[Meiko]

What about Gali? Same story. They have a robotic makeup. It's not going to have a specialized part for just this one character.

[Bambi]

Only thing I see that makes her look girl-ish is her helmet.

[Aanchir]

The original Breez used the rather gender-neutral rookie build. Breez 2.0 actually struck me as feminine-- at least in that her helmet seems the most feminine to me out of the six. It "frames" the face in such a way as to soften its sharply-angled lower jaw. A lot of people criticized her use of the wider 9M torso style rather than the narrower 7M torso, but keep in mind that Toa Gali in 2001 also had about the same height with 9M shoulders, compared to the 7M shoulders of Lewa or Kopaka. As for the new Breez, no, she's not instantly recognizable as feminine, but at the same time she does have feminine traits. She has been given the narrower 1.0 foot design (which also incidentally resembles high heels), which I have seen used effectively on Breez MOCs. The bulky shoulders she has been given IMO resemble heavy armor over a narrower frame-- if she had been given smaller shoulder armor, ironically, it would probably look more like it was supposed to be fitted tightly to her body shape, and thus she might have seemed to have a bulkier frame. Something to keep in mind is that kids within the target audience of Hero Factory, just as with BIONICLE, tend to buy male characters over female characters. Female action figures in general can't match the sales male action figures have with this audience. By making the design changes for female characters subtle, TLG makes the characters less obviously female, so that they don't drive away gender-biased consumers. At the same time, people who know the genders of these characters will hopefully be able to pick up on these subtle cues. And TLG's been doing this since the start of BIONICLE, although sets like Roodaka and Kiina pushed the limits of how decidedly feminine a set design could be.

[Gorag]

Why make the other female robots in the TV show obviously feminine then? Or why not change her to look more feminine in the TV shows? There must have been a reason.

[BULiK]

. And TLG's been doing this since the start of BIONICLE, although sets like Roodaka and Kiina pushed the limits of how decidedly feminine a set design could be.

what do you mean? and also, for 1.0 they had special custom molds for stormer, bult, and stringer

[Meiko]

Why make the other female robots in the TV show obviously feminine then? Or why not change her to look more feminine in the TV shows? There must have been a reason.

If they changed it in the TV Episodes, they'd have to change the set. They use the TV Episodes to get people interested in the line, and to advertise it as well. They need to keep consistency between the types f media they use.

[Aanchir]

Why make the other female robots in the TV show obviously feminine then? Or why not change her to look more feminine in the TV shows? There must have been a reason.

The other female robots in the TV show don't matter too much because kids don't actually have to buy them. There's a difference between being a young boy and watching a show that has a few girls in it and being a young boy buying a female action figure. Especially when peer pressure is considered-- after all, female action figures may be too similar to dolls for some boys' liking. As for why Breez isn't made more feminine, it's not too necessary. In the TV episodes or even the simpler animations on the Hero Factory products page, Breez can be made to look feminine through her movement and body language instead (as well as her voice, in the TV episodes at least). The TV episodes in general tend to be more accurate to the sets than the BIONICLE movies were. Some characters like the first wave's villains are more heavily modified than the heroes tend to be, but in general changes tend to be slight (for example, the large torso shells on the shoulders of Stormer and Stringer 3.0 being shrunk down so they don't interfere visibly with the animation).

[Bambi]

The original Breez used the rather gender-neutral rookie build. Breez 2.0 actually struck me as feminine-- at least in that her helmet seems the most feminine to me out of the six. It "frames" the face in such a way as to soften its sharply-angled lower jaw.

I think the exact opposite. Breeze 2.0 actually looked the most like a boy, IMO.

[Squishyfrog]

I don't really have much to say, but I wouldn't think Breez would be near as cool if she wore a dress and had high heels and was all thin in the waist and had hair and stuff like the female robots in the show.

[Zarohum]

. And TLG's been doing this since the start of BIONICLE, although sets like Roodaka and Kiina pushed the limits of how decidedly feminine a set design could be.

what do you mean? and also, for 1.0 they had special custom molds for stormer, bult, and stringer

but if they made a special one for Breez, then Furno and Surge would have the same one, and people would complain just as much. They can make 4 kinda of armor, or 6, and each mold costs around $80,000. Spend $160,000 just to make one character look more feminine?

I don't really have much to say, but I wouldn't think Breez would be near as cool if she wore a dress and had high heels and was all thin in the waist and had hair and stuff like the female robots in the show.

Well, then get ready for Breez 4.0. That's all i'm gonna say. Edited October 20, 2011 by Zarohum

[Akuna Toa of Sonics]

She's a robot. They don't really have masculine or feminine features.

[Studs Not On Top]

I know what you mean-- they haven't gone out of the way to make Breez look feminine. They could've given her the smaller 2.0 body, but they didn't. She's given as much armor as the guys. I know that when her 4.0 form comes out next year, I'll be modifying her a little.

[Protodite Karzahni]

Just wouldn't be BZPower without a routine "Set doesn't look like a girl" thread. Not that I'm complaining, they're usually quite amusing. The general conclusion for this subject, is that they're robots, there's no real reason for them to have certain womanly features when breeding isn't an option, other than for aesthetics. And as this is a line aimed at small kids, the whole "sex sells" matter doesn't apply to them. Not to mention, she's a robot designed for fighting, so anything designed onto her to distinguish gender would be pointless and unnecessary. High heels would get in the way, hair would just be a nuisance, certain other parts would be unnecessary extra armour and weight. She's only female as her hard drive tells her to be. Otherwise she'd be a completely different robot.

[Ballom Nom Nom]

Is there any particular reason why robots need to have some sort of "gender" dimorphism?~B~

[BULiK]

to keep us sane

[Aanchir]

I know what you mean-- they haven't gone out of the way to make Breez look feminine. They could've given her the smaller 2.0 body, but they didn't. She's given as much armor as the guys. I know that when her 4.0 form comes out next year, I'll be modifying her a little.

The smaller 2.0 body? You mean the one with the 7M shoulders instead of 9M? All of the 4.0 heroes tend to use the 9M body from what I can tell, not like I think that's a problem. As for the 2.0 sets, it's true that TLG gave her 9M shoulders instead of 7M shoulders like two of the male Heroes from that wave had. Of course, this isn't the first time a female hero set this size has been given given 9M shoulders when two male heroes from the same wave were given narrower 7M shoulders. The female character I linked to also has just as much armor as her male teammates (not that I understand why female characters should have less armor, unless you think being scantily clad is inherently feminine). I don't really like to use the "robots don't need sexual characteristics" argument because it can be a slippery slope from that to "robots don't need to resemble humans in any way". It is a valid argument, though. Even with human characters there's no reason female characters need to "look instantly like a girl". While I'd like to see more obviously-female characters in Hero Factory sets, that doesn't mean that characters like Breez aren't feminine enough. IMO she's the most feminine-looking character on her team (although evidently this perspective is not widely held).

[Gorag]

If they made every other female robot in the TV Show similar in that they weren't obviously suppose to be "Female Robots" if you will, I wouldn't be asking this question. But alas, for some reason they did. Why, though? It makes Breeze look all that more masculine. I'm assuming LEGO has/had a say in the concept art of the other robots in the Hero Factory TV Show. If they knew ahead of time that they were going to tie in a TV Show with Hero Factory and make the robots have "genders", why not either: 1. Design Breeze to look more feminine by giving her different chest armor 2. Design the other "Female Robots" in the TV Show to look more like Breeze and less like an actual human woman?

[Sappholopod]

Because the other "female robots" don't need to be sets, Breez does.

[Aanchir]

If they made every other female robot in the TV Show similar in that they weren't obviously suppose to be "Female Robots" if you will, I wouldn't be asking this question. But alas, for some reason they did. Why, though? It makes Breeze look all that more masculine. I'm assuming LEGO has/had a say in the concept art of the other robots in the Hero Factory TV Show. If they knew ahead of time that they were going to tie in a TV Show with Hero Factory and make the robots have "genders", why not either: 1. Design Breeze to look more feminine by giving her different chest armor 2. Design the other "Female Robots" in the TV Show to look more like Breeze and less like an actual human woman?

Incidentally, I love how "different chest armor" is usually one of the first suggestions people have for how to make sets more feminine. There exist women who are pretty flat-chested, you know. And no matter what kind of build a woman has, in real life it's not likely to show up much if she's wearing armor of any sort. The other common suggestion, "narrower shoulders", is one that I think is a lot more valid in many cases, since this is an aspect of the female body that would usually be more visible in any outfit, no matter how practical. In Breez's case, I actually think she looks better with the wider shoulders because the 2.0 heroes (as well as the upcoming wave) have uniform torso armor. Thus, if Breez were given the torso with 7M shoulders (and believe me, I have tried) it would make her upper body look more compact and, in my opinion, bulkier. With that said, I have tried using LDD to MOC female heroes with different torso armor and narrower shoulders. I hope to someday come up with a design I'm happy with that uses Carapar thigh armor as torso armor, since it creates a shape that is feminine but not exaggeratedly-so, which works well with narrower shoulders. It's hard to incorporate in a way that is fairly basic, however.

[Gorag]

Incidentally, I love how "different chest armor" is usually one of the first suggestions people have for how to make sets more feminine. There exist women who are pretty flat-chested, you know. And no matter what kind of build a woman has, in real life it's not likely to show up much if she's wearing armor of any sort.

I was suggesting the first thing I'd think LEGO would do. Look at their LEGO Minifigs. What difference is there? The torso and the head. If they use this technique constantly, why wouldn't it expand to their other products that have "genders". Also, about your thoughts on the armor, Samus. I know Samus isn't real, but no one in real life walks around all day looking like Breeze does either. Samus's chest armor obviously has some room at least. Also, if it was suppose to be actual armor for the characters, why when they build the characters in the TV Show does she not look feminine when they take the armor off to upgrade her? Edited October 21, 2011 by Gorag

[.:Ascenic:.]

Also, if it was suppose to be actual armor for the characters, why when they build the characters in the TV Show does she not look feminine when they take the armor off to upgrade her?

To resemble the set. Which, as everyone knows, is just that thin black, "Skeleton".

[Gorag]

Also, if it was suppose to be actual armor for the characters, why when they build the characters in the TV Show does she not look feminine when they take the armor off to upgrade her?

To resemble the set. Which, as everyone knows, is just that thin black, "Skeleton".

Really? We're going with that after they've changed various other things for the TV show (Rocka's helmet being the most noticeable)?

[Aanchir]

Also, if it was suppose to be actual armor for the characters, why when they build the characters in the TV Show does she not look feminine when they take the armor off to upgrade her?

To resemble the set. Which, as everyone knows, is just that thin black, "Skeleton".

Really? We're going with that after they've changed various other things for the TV show (Rocka's helmet being the most noticeable)?

How do you know that the parts left on when she's being upgraded aren't also part of her armor? And furthermore, who says she has to look anatomically correct when her armor is removed? For all we know, the torsos of the female side-characters have no visible breasts when they aren't wearing those dresses (in fact, given the curvature of the body I would suspect that to be the case). They're robots, not Barbie dolls. Furthermore, I already mentioned how a character can be made more feminine in animation even without changing their structure, just by altering their body movements. So in the TV episodes she doesn't really need to have a female body type to be understood as a female character. I liked the way the sets were altered for all of the BIONICLE movies so female characters looked more feminine. But I'm not fool enough to think that if that hadn't been done I'd be watching the movies the whole time thinking those characters were male.

[Protodite Karzahni]

Also, about your thoughts on the armor, Samus. I know Samus isn't real, but no one in real life walks around all day looking like Breeze does either. Samus's chest armor obviously has some room at least. Also, if it was suppose to be actual armor for the characters, why when they build the characters in the TV Show does she not look feminine when they take the armor off to upgrade her?

It's not a great reason, but it's one I just used earlier, which is sex sells. The difference between Breez and Samus is Samus is from a video game primarily aimed at men. Of course her armour is going to display certain womanly features, albeit not in as obvious a way as usual for video games, but its still fairly obvious. Kids between the age of 6-12, which the line is primarily aimed at, aren't going to be interested in that, so there's no reason for the extra money to be spent moulding a piece that wouldn't make a difference in whether small kids would buy her or not.

[Gorag]

Furthermore, I already mentioned how a character can be made more feminine in animation even without changing their structure, just by altering their body movements. So in the TV episodes she doesn't really need to have a female body type to be understood as a female character.

So why not do this with the other female characters not made into sets? That's all I'm asking, why didn't they keep it consistant? I don't care if their chest armor looks like a girl or not, I'm trying to figure out what LEGO was thinking when creating the characters.

[Aanchir]

Furthermore, I already mentioned how a character can be made more feminine in animation even without changing their structure, just by altering their body movements. So in the TV episodes she doesn't really need to have a female body type to be understood as a female character.

So why not do this with the other female characters not made into sets? That's all I'm asking, why didn't they keep it consistant? I don't care if their chest armor looks like a girl or not, I'm trying to figure out what LEGO was thinking when creating the characters.

Because they wanted to, and the female characters in the show don't have to look any more consistent than women do in real life? Because if they keep the other hero characters mostly loyal to the sets it would be silly to arbitrarily impose radical changes on the one female character? I think you're overthinking this whole thing; none of this even mattered to me when I was watching any of the episodes.

[Toa Zaz]

Because Lego realized that us Bionicle fans were liking Roodaka a little too much...

[Neelh]

She's an androygonous robot. If you want her to look like a girl, modify her onto Roodaka's body.

[Cosmic Titan]

I think it is pathetic that people think a robot has to look feminine. I would not buy a toy that is meant to be a robot if it looked feminine or masculine. I like my robots to look robotic not human.

[UltraHau]

Actually, I thought she was a boy before I saw her first name. *hides*