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I had a theory like that.^

There was an original species that eventually split into the Agori and Glatorian (Skrall later split from Glatorian but thats a tale for another day :P ), and what remained of the original special species became known as the Great Beings.

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There has been an interesting question concerning A Thousand Years Untold 2 some days ago. The question have been cut when Greg replied but here's the original post with the question and here is the answer.

 

 

Also, another question. A couple years ago, there was an official S&T Contest called A Thousand Years Untold 2. It was the follow-up to a previos contest called A Thousand years untold, which users submitted short stories about Mata Nui, Metru Nui, and Voya Nui during the thousand years after the Great Cataclysm. The winners were canonized. THis contest deals with other islands which were not revealed at that point (eg. Mahri Nui, Stelt, Karda Nui). Should the winners of the second contest be considered canon, as the contest was intended? The contest description says that was the case.

Re: your last question. I do not recall ever seeing the stories from the second contest, and if I have not seen and approved them, then they can't be canonized.

 

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  • 1 month later...

Krahka does not copy Mask Powers ("to the best of [Greg's] knowledge")

 

 

 

 

keplers wrote:

If a Krahka copied the powers of a Mohtrek and one of the time duplicates were instantly destroyed – thus being terminated before it could be sent back to its original time – what would happen?

Krahka could duplicate a Toa wearing a Mohtrek and gain that Toa's elemental power. However, to the best of my knowledge, she does not gain the mask power too. So she would not be able to use a Mohtrek to do what you are suggesting.

Someone else just updated BS01 this morning, but I thought that I should put it here as well for people who don't check the wiki.

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  • 4 weeks later...

It seems Av-Matoran aren't the most likely tribe to become Toa:

Greg post 1:

 

#1 it is said that av matoran have the highest chance to become toa, so can we assume that a LOT of them have toa energy?
#2 if this is true then Why does it appear that alot of them became bohrok?
#3 can the ignika turn bohrok back into matoran
#4 can the Ignika turn matoran who are not destined to become Toa into Toa

1) Said where, I can't find a reference to that.
3) I would say no.
4) No. If you are not destined to be a Toa, you do not have any energy in you that can be sparked by a Toa stone, and the Ignika cannot put that there.

 

Source

Reply and Greg quote 2:


 

Antroz said It in Shadows in the sky
There's a difference, though, between a character saying something and a narrator saying something. A character can be wrong, misinformed or lying. If Av-Matoran have a higher chance of becoming Toa, how is there only one Toa of Light in the whole universe, but multiple Toa of Fire, Water, etc.?

 


Source

I think this is the right call TBH. It never made much sense, and a character being wrong isn't that bad as far as retcons go.

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Finally an answer that makes sense...

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Greg elaborates on his interpretation of Velika's character.

 

 

 

So I've been wondering about Velika...

 

1) Did Velika come to regard the Matoran Universe inhabitants as truly living beings with free will, since he gave them sapience, or did he always see them as nanotech?

2) Did Velika like/care for the Matoran Resistance team he spent so much time with? He seemed fond of them in the novels.

3) Velika very actively helped the Toa Inika fight against the Piraka, even crafting zamor launchers for them. Why?

4) So Velika wants to rule Spherus Magna because he believes that poor leadership is what lead to disaster in the first place. Why is he so convinced that HE has to be the one ruling?

1) Somewhere in the middle

2) I think he cared for them as a creator cares for the things he makes, probably.

 

3) Because the Piraka were a threat. They were chaotic. Velika wants to impose order.

 

4) For the same reason that anyone wants to be a ruler -- he's basically a narcissist. He thinks he is smarter and better than anyone around him, and so of course he should be the one in charge.

 

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  • 1 month later...

Greg himself brought up an interesting question about Matoran romance. He still denies that it exists though.

 

In this first post he was asked to re-canonize Matoran romance, which he naturally does not do. (source)
 

 

 

 

I know the topic of romance in Bionicle has been one which you have probably been beaten over the head with countless times, but i recently decided to share my two cents on the topic.   Romance in living animals exists for the rather singlular purpose of reproduction, and that is not something that exists within the Matoran species.  Plus this is a childrens toy and its probably best to stay as far from a topic like that as possible.  However, i feel that the relationships included in some of the older books offer a good reason to include the EMOTION of love at least.  Take the relationship between Nokama and Matau (or rather how Matau acts towards Nokama) for example. Normally he is a very confident character, sort of full of himself, but in the older books he has a major soft-spot for Nokama specifically. He is very protective of her, and is shy of his feelings. I know that these scenes are now non-canon, but i feel that choice threw away some really unique character building. Without those scenes, Matau is sort of a one-dimensional over-confident dude (no offense), but with them he gets that crutial extra bit of depth that makes his character that little bit more interesting.

You could argue that Matau/Nokama relationship is just one of very close friendship, but i think that at least leaving it open to enterpretation would make it a little more interesting. It is more fun and engaging for the reader to have two characters that you can't quite tell whether or not they are more than friends, than to have two characters that you know exactly what sort of relationship they have.  That unknown factor can spawn discussion, and ultimately that is a good thing (most of the time). 

 

So i guess my real question is this; 

 

Would you ever consider reinstating love (outwith what a sort of brother/sister love) as a thing that the Matoran kind can experience? 

Not romantic love, no.

This is the standard answer to this type of question, but he then follows it up with this:
 

 

That said, though -- you are now going to have MU inhabitants exposed to the concept on SM. So there is no telling what effect that might have.


Now, let's not take this out of context or assume that it means anything about them possibly developing the ability to feel romantic love (it probably doesn't).  It is just interesting to think about how fully sapient nano-tech would react to not only romance but the existence of multi-gender tribes.  

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^And that's as close as the shippers are going to get as a 'yes' to romance.

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:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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he absolutely 100% does not, at least, that's what i gather by his general responses to the topic of matoran and romantic attraction. :t

 

Well... they're robots. Robots who are meant to work, work, work, busy, busy, busy all day long. What do you expect? The Great Beings wouldn't dare bother programming romantic attraction into them if they wanted the Matoran to work within Mata Nui.

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he absolutely 100% does not, at least, that's what i gather by his general responses to the topic of matoran and romantic attraction. :t

Well... they're robots. Robots who are meant to work, work, work, busy, busy, busy all day long. What do you expect? The Great Beings wouldn't dare bother programming romantic attraction into them if they wanted the Matoran to work within Mata Nui.

Didn't program other emotions in either, didn't stop them from developing them.

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:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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Let's try this one for now: 

 

 


4. Why did the GBs have reason to create multiple failsafe for Mata Nui's health, but nothing for a rebellion? Yes the Mask of life would stop everything from going wrong but this would kill Mata Nui as well. 

 

4) Simple. Let's say you build a MINDSTORMS robot and program it. You don't want to risk it falling off its shelf and breaking, so you put pillows on the floor to cushion it. You don't want your little brother to break it, so you make sure it's high enough he can't reach it. But are you worried that the robot might revolt against you? Probably not. The key phrase is that the GBs made their creations with "better AI than they knew" -- they had no idea the AI was going to spawn things like ambition and jealousy, so they had no reason to prepare for that.

 

(Mental note: add emotion and programming categories to Cat. Greg Reference. There's at least  200 answers apiece.)

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he absolutely 100% does not, at least, that's what i gather by his general responses to the topic of matoran and romantic attraction. :t


Well... they're robots. Robots who are meant to work, work, work, busy, busy, busy all day long. What do you expect? The Great Beings wouldn't dare bother programming romantic attraction into them if they wanted the Matoran to work within Mata Nui.

Didn't program other emotions in either, didn't stop them from developing them.

 

 

exactly, they could develop ambition, jealousy, and complex emotional connections to various things but Romance? nah bruh, can't have that in a BOYS toyline amirite?

 

...uhhh, they DID program other emotions in. Or rather, Velika programmed them.  Nothing was developed independantly by the Matoran.  From BS01:

 

 

After some years of posing as a MatoranVelika elevated the artificial intelligence of the Matoran Universe's inhabitants to a level of true sapience, allowing them to develop intricate languages and cultures, but also to harbor evil and destructive thoughts, in some cases. The Kestora were not among the beings given higher sapience, and continued to function on their limited artificial intelligence.

Remember that Velika, a fully-sapient being, planned to disguise himself among semi-sentient worker drones.  It stands to reason that in order to better hide and to keep himself from going insane, he gave them the same emotions that he is capable of feeling.  

Wait a minute,  I just came up with a new theory:

If Velika gave the Matoran sapience and emotions that he was capable of feeling, but did NOT give them the ability to develop romantic attraction; can we assume that Velika is aromantic (which, by the way, is a real thing)?  
Let's think about it.  If he had the ability to form romantic relations, and created fully-sapient individuals that, for some reason, were all aromantic and asexual; there would be a danger (no matter how small) of him developing romantic feelings towards one of the others.  If he is aromantic, however, this would not be the case.

Edited by N.S.M.8
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Wait a minute,  I just came up with a new theory:

If Velika gave the Matoran sapience and emotions that he was capable of feeling, but did NOT give them the ability to develop romantic attraction; can we assume that Velika is aromantic (which, by the way, is a real thing)?  

Let's think about it.  If he had the ability to form romantic relations, and created fully-sapient individuals that, for some reason, were all aromantic and asexual; there would be a danger (no matter how small) of him developing romantic feelings towards one of the others.  If he is aromantic, however, this would not be the case.

 

That's brilliant! After all, wouldn't it be creepy to fall in love with your own creations? Best to be cautious and make them incapable of love.

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Greg himself brought up an interesting question about Matoran romance. He still denies that it exists though.

 

In this first post he was asked to re-canonize Matoran romance, which he naturally does not do. (source)

 

 

I know the topic of romance in Bionicle has been one which you have probably been beaten over the head with countless times, but i recently decided to share my two cents on the topic.   Romance in living animals exists for the rather singlular purpose of reproduction, and that is not something that exists within the Matoran species.  Plus this is a childrens toy and its probably best to stay as far from a topic like that as possible.  However, i feel that the relationships included in some of the older books offer a good reason to include the EMOTION of love at least.  Take the relationship between Nokama and Matau (or rather how Matau acts towards Nokama) for example. Normally he is a very confident character, sort of full of himself, but in the older books he has a major soft-spot for Nokama specifically. He is very protective of her, and is shy of his feelings. I know that these scenes are now non-canon, but i feel that choice threw away some really unique character building. Without those scenes, Matau is sort of a one-dimensional over-confident dude (no offense), but with them he gets that crutial extra bit of depth that makes his character that little bit more interesting.

You could argue that Matau/Nokama relationship is just one of very close friendship, but i think that at least leaving it open to enterpretation would make it a little more interesting. It is more fun and engaging for the reader to have two characters that you can't quite tell whether or not they are more than friends, than to have two characters that you know exactly what sort of relationship they have.  That unknown factor can spawn discussion, and ultimately that is a good thing (most of the time). 

 

So i guess my real question is this; 

 

Would you ever consider reinstating love (outwith what a sort of brother/sister love) as a thing that the Matoran kind can experience?

Not romantic love, no.

 

This is the standard answer to this type of question, but he then follows it up with this:

 

That said, though -- you are now going to have MU inhabitants exposed to the concept on SM. So there is no telling what effect that might have.

Now, let's not take this out of context or assume that it means anything about them possibly developing the ability to feel romantic love (it probably doesn't).  It is just interesting to think about how fully sapient nano-tech would react to not only romance but the existence of multi-gender tribes.

 

 

"Romance in living animals exists for the rather singlular purpose of reproduction, and that is not something that exists within the Matoran species. Plus this is a childrens toy and its probably best to stay as far from a topic like that as possible." - somebody named jesusHERCULESchrist

 

Already who is the wise guy who posted this quote? First off Romance is not really only for the case of reproduction and as far as it being void due to children's toy chalk that one out too. Just look at Nia and Jay/Cole. Romance or rather "the desire to be close to another" is a pinnacle part of human and creature development. So why not have it in a children's toyline?

 

Unless they were referencing the act that causes reproduction... then yeah I can see that part of romance being a no, no in a child toy.

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Yeah, the reason the no-romance thing drives me up the wall is that it obviously came from some bizarre notion romance only serves as a kick-start for "the naughty stuff" and not as, y'know, an emotion any being with half a (sapient) brain could fire up. :t

(All that needs to be said is) Matoran cannot reproduce, and do not feel love like humans do. They can, and often do, form intense bonds that can be considered more than friendship. These bonds can form between any two matoran of tribe or gender.

 

Bam. Solved. We're avoiding the "icky stuff" and allowing the flirting and relationships to exist. Roodaka and Sidorak's 'marriage' is simply a formalized 'I'll watch your back, you watch mine' arrangement between two MU-ians with this sort of bond.

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:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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Yeah, the reason the no-romance thing drives me up the wall is that it obviously came from some bizarre notion romance only serves as a kick-start for "the naughty stuff" and not as, y'know, an emotion any being with half a (sapient) brain could fire up. :t

(All that needs to be said is) Matoran cannot reproduce, and do not feel love like humans do. They can, and often do, form intense bonds that can be considered more than friendship. These bonds can form between any two matoran of tribe or gender.

 

Bam. Solved. We're avoiding the "icky stuff" and allowing the flirting and relationships to exist. Roodaka and Sidorak's 'marriage' is simply a formalized 'I'll watch your back, you watch mine' arrangement between two MU-ians with this sort of bond.

 

Somebody needs to tell Greg this...
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"A stranger will always be a stranger unless you give them a chance."

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 |premierball.png| <- My Pokémon | BZPRPG Characters: Po-Matoran Doseki & Nui-Jaga Scorpio; Ga-Matoran Orca 
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We now have more information about this post.

Origional Post

I know the topic of romance in Bionicle has been one which you have probably been beaten over the head with countless times, but i recently decided to share my two cents on the topic.   Romance in living animals exists for the rather singlular purpose of reproduction, and that is not something that exists within the Matoran species.  Plus this is a childrens toy and its probably best to stay as far from a topic like that as possible.  However, i feel that the relationships included in some of the older books offer a good reason to include the EMOTION of love at least.  Take the relationship between Nokama and Matau (or rather how Matau acts towards Nokama) for example. Normally he is a very confident character, sort of full of himself, but in the older books he has a major soft-spot for Nokama specifically. He is very protective of her, and is shy of his feelings. I know that these scenes are now non-canon, but i feel that choice threw away some really unique character building. Without those scenes, Matau is sort of a one-dimensional over-confident dude (no offense), but with them he gets that crutial extra bit of depth that makes his character that little bit more interesting.

You could argue that Matau/Nokama relationship is just one of very close friendship, but i think that at least leaving it open to enterpretation would make it a little more interesting. It is more fun and engaging for the reader to have two characters that you can't quite tell whether or not they are more than friends, than to have two characters that you know exactly what sort of relationship they have.  That unknown factor can spawn discussion, and ultimately that is a good thing (most of the time). 

 

So i guess my real question is this; 

 

Would you ever consider reinstating love (outwith what a sort of brother/sister love) as a thing that the Matoran kind can experience? 

Not romantic love, no.

Follow Up

That said, though -- you are now going to have MU inhabitants exposed to the concept on SM. So there is no telling what effect that might have.

New Information

 

 

Well, it turns out the fanabse is taking that and running with it as far as confirmation goes.

 

Just to be absolutely clear - Are you saying it'd merely be interesting to see if Matoran observation will have any affect on them? Or that Matoran can now love as an Agori or a human can?

 

(I figure it's the former, but people love to read into things so I just wanna make sure)

That kind of a behavioral shift is not going to happen in weeks or months. What I am saying is that they are going to have a new emotion and new relationships to observe. It might just be something they find interesting, or it might be something someone down the line tries to emulate. If you assume their AI allows them to learn behavior, will they learn this one? I don't know. But it is not something that is going to happen right away.

Make of this what you want.

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What's always bewildered me is if romance is a concept largely foreign to the Matoran Universe, then how could Roodaka and Sidorak even know what marriage was back in the 2005 story? Is it commonplace among the Bionicle political powers? If so, how'd they even come up with a name for it?

Edited by Vakama35
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I suspect that Greg's view on MU romance came from being the lead writer, but not the lead story-smith.  He knew about the Big Story Engine, but I doubt it was always foremost in his mind.  It seems probable that when he initially considered the topic of romance in BIONICLE, he wasn't thinking "these are nanotech which maintain a giant robot," but simply "these are biomechanical beings who don't procreate." That is, he assumed that they were created with sapience in mind, as opposed to it being unintended by the Great Beings.

 

In fact, it's quite possible that the story team had a different explanation for sapience, provided they had one, prior to the conception of Spherus Magna, the Core War, etc. It may well be that if BIONICLE had ended in 2003, the answer fans got to the inevitable question would have been "it was Mata Nui's gift to his children," or "it was to make them function better," or some such thing.

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 If you assume their AI allows them to learn behavior, will they learn this one? I don't know. But it is not something that is going to happen right away.

 

I mean, it'd be pretty stupid if they could pick up behaviours like betrayal, cowardice, greed, deception, and bloodlust, but couldn't get something as simple as affection down. y'know? :t

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What I don't understand is that Greg has hinted at this kind of stuff several times in his his books (Balta and Dalu anyone?) and then he became the one denying it afterward.

Edited by The Irrational Rock
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bZpOwEr

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Greg seems a lot more open to the idea of biomechanical romance nowadays...

 

 

 

Well, it turns out the fanabse is taking that and running with it as far as confirmation goes.

 

Just to be absolutely clear - Are you saying it'd merely be interesting to see if Matoran observation will have any affect on them? Or that Matoran can now love as an Agori or a human can?

 

(I figure it's the former, but people love to read into things so I just wanna make sure)

That kind of a behavioral shift is not going to happen in weeks or months. What I am saying is that they are going to have a new emotion and new relationships to observe. It might just be something they find interesting, or it might be something someone down the line tries to emulate. If you assume their AI allows them to learn behavior, will they learn this one? I don't know. But it is not something that is going to happen right away.

 

Full steam ahead, shippers.

 

Also, some wise guy pointed out that Pahrak-Kal's fate doesn't make sense:

 

 

 

1 Could a great being modify powers that work only on MU beings to work on organic beings as well?

 

2 According to the wiki Pahrak Kal melted to the core of Aqua Magna and died, but it doesn't have a core or magama, since its just a chunk of Aqua Magna, so is it possible that Pahrak Kal is just stuck in a VERY deep hole

 

3 Can Arthaka make more great disks, and by extension more masks of time?

 

4 can Piraka form natural kaita?

1) Not sure. I tend to think not in all cases, maybe in some.

2) If there is no core, then he went out the other side and quite possibly died in space.

 

3) If he had the raw materials, one would assume so. But from a story perspective, I would never have added more than one Vahi, it unbalances the story.

 

4) Can they? Maybe. Would they? No.

Edited by ALVIS
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WAIT, didn't that mean P-Kal bored a hole through the GSR's face???

 

(died in space, pffft, why won't greg let me have my bohrok-kal orbital satellites? ;n; )

If it did burn through the GSR's face, then the hole would have been healed by the Staff of Artakha.

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This means that now both Pahrak-Kal and Lehvak-Kal are in space, which makes three of the Kal that are alive, if you include Tahnok-Kal who's trapped behind an electrical field.

I might write something about this in the future if I ever get back into writing fanfiction.

Edited by The Irrational Rock
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bZpOwEr

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And Gahlok Kal wasn't damaged beyond repair so really just Nuhvok Kal and Kohrak Kal died (and what kind of physics has him go all the way through the planet instead of being trapped at the core?)

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And Gahlok Kal wasn't damaged beyond repair so really just Nuhvok Kal and Kohrak Kal died (and what kind of physics has him go all the way through the planet instead of being trapped at the core?)

 

*sparkle* Bionicle Physics*sparkle* which aren't like our mundane earth physics which have to make sense all the time.

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