Hau under the sundial

[Toa Of Anarchy]

Ok, I've always wondered, what is with the Hau when you get through the sundial in MNOGI? And why does it say "Rahi" in the Bionicle Alphabet under it?

http://biosector01.com/wiki/images/3/33/Sundial_Entrance.png

Edited November 13, 2013 by Toa of Anarchy

[fishers64]

I think it says "Rahi" because you have to defeat the Rahi in the battle in Kini-Nui before you can access that space. I don't know about the Hau.

[Aanchir]

The reason it says "Rahi" under it, and that it is there in the first place, is that it was part of the "Search for the Golden Masks" sweepstakes/promotion in 2001. Golden masks would appear in fairly arbitrary places in random LEGO and BIONICLE media, including LEGO Mania Magazines, random pages on the BIONICLE website, and the Mata Nui Online Game, and each one would have a four-letter word in Matoran letters printed underneath. You'd collect a certain number of "codes" and mail them in to be entered to win prizes, including a solid gold Kanohi Hau.As such, the one in MNOLG has no story relevance: just think of it as a sort of "easter egg" that is not relevant to the story or gameplay.

[emily]

To add to what Aanchir said, based on a text file from the game it can be inferred that Templar originally had something more story-relevant in mind for the interior of the sundial than the contest clue (the sundial supposedly provided a passageway through the unimpenetrable rock layer, but in the final game there is no apparent way in which it accomplishes this). Here are the lines from the file, they were intended for the prospector who stands by the sundial:

 

"The mining guilds will long remember you, stranger! That portal opened a way through this rock layer."

 

"I'm not sure what the ancient machines inside are, but they're rich in protodermis."

 

Supposedly the machines, along with the manner in which the chamber provided a way through the rock layer, were replaced by the clue. No way to know for certain, though.

[bonesiii]

the sundial supposedly provided a passageway through the unimpenetrable rock layer, but in the final game there is no apparent way in which it accomplishes this

What do you mean? Unlocking the sundial lets you through the layer. (To the Hau, and then later you can get through that too.) It's a fancy door plus elevator.

 

I'm sure the stuff you're talking about does mean more was planned, but that part, if I understood you right, is in the final game.

 

Anywho, Aanchir is right, however, there's no need to just ignore it -- what fishers says works in-story. I think I explained something like that in this part of my retelling. It could have been put there by the Order, perhaps, and the word Rahi could signal that it isn't yet time to open it, but Takua will know when it is, when the Rahi are defeated. Of course, none of this is canon. Not sure if Greg ever said whether it is considered to even exist in the canon or not.

[emily]

 

the sundial supposedly provided a passageway through the unimpenetrable rock layer, but in the final game there is no apparent way in which it accomplishes this

What do you mean? Unlocking the sundial lets you through the layer. (To the Hau, and then later you can get through that too.) It's a fancy door plus elevator.

 

I'm sure the stuff you're talking about does mean more was planned, but that part, if I understood you right, is in the final game.

It goes through the layer, but I never got the impression that the Onu-Koronans could activate the elevator - I'm assuming they didn't, as if they did they would have ended up in the Mangaia. I always assumed that, until Takua went to follow the Toa, all anyone knew was that it was a small chamber inside the layer, that in reality wouldn't have done the Onu-Koronans any good as it didn't allow them to access anything else. Based on the apparent original plans for something else in the chamber, I guessed that the logical error in everyone suddenly being able to mine again was just the sacrifice of a small plot element for the sake of the contest.

[bonesiii]

So you meant that it doesn't provide a way through for the miners. That was at least correct for the Onu-Koro level in the gameplay progression. Whether they could activate it later or not isn't specified, but it doesn't really matter as they were wrong to assume there'd be anything to mine on the other side.

[Just A Dot]

 

 

the sundial supposedly provided a passageway through the unimpenetrable rock layer, but in the final game there is no apparent way in which it accomplishes this

What do you mean? Unlocking the sundial lets you through the layer. (To the Hau, and then later you can get through that too.) It's a fancy door plus elevator.

 

I'm sure the stuff you're talking about does mean more was planned, but that part, if I understood you right, is in the final game.

It goes through the layer, but I never got the impression that the Onu-Koronans could activate the elevator - I'm assuming they didn't, as if they did they would have ended up in the Mangaia. I always assumed that, until Takua went to follow the Toa, all anyone knew was that it was a small chamber inside the layer, that in reality wouldn't have done the Onu-Koronans any good as it didn't allow them to access anything else. Based on the apparent original plans for something else in the chamber, I guessed that the logical error in everyone suddenly being able to mine again was just the sacrifice of a small plot element for the sake of the contest.

 

They couldn't even have known about the small chamber; all they knew of was a strange sundial underground, which is not where sundials are normally found. Takua discovered the layer, and the button doesn't work until after the Hau is removed. Trying to click the button shows some strange forcefield blocking it (maybe generated by the Hau?)

Now, why was it that Tahu's golden mask was down there at all?

[emily]

So you meant that it doesn't provide a way through for the miners. That was at least correct for the Onu-Koro level in the gameplay progression. Whether they could activate it later or not isn't specified, but it doesn't really matter as they were wrong to assume there'd be anything to mine on the other side.

That's sort of what I meant. I think I have confused my own thoughts a little, so I'm just going to put everything below in an attempt at clarity.

 

In-story, I do believe that there was some way in which Takua's opening of the sundial allowed the Onu-Koronans to reach new areas to mine under the rock layer. Everyone thanks him for finding a way through, which always implied to me there was more to it than the chamber with the Hau. Of course, it still didn't make sense - if Takua had made a way through, where was it exactly? And why were the miners still mining above the layer, as if somehow creating an opening helped them to find more seams above it?

 

What I was trying to propose in my initial post is that originally there would have been something, like a tunnel, leading to rock to mine, in the chamber that would have explained things. But, in an effort to insert the Hau for the Quest for the Gold Masks Sweepstakes, Templar abandoned their original plans. The result was the plot hole.

 

So to summarize, as I understand it is implied that Takua did find a path through the layer, but due to the sweepstakes it was never visually depicted. Later, when Templar decided to make the sundial an entrance to the Mangaia, it made things make even less sense because it demonstrated that there was really no way the chamber could have led to more rock to mine.

[Just A Dot]

So to summarize, as I understand it is implied that Takua did find a path through the layer, but due to the sweepstakes it was never visually depicted. Later, when Templar decided to make the sundial an entrance to the Mangaia, it made things make even less sense because it demonstrated that there was really no way the chamber could have led to more rock to mine.

 

See, I don't think there really WAS anything down there, other than Mangaia. They were more congratulating him on his discovery of the strange chamber, and they intended to explore it, what little space it was. Whenua mentions that the miners were very curious about that room, and they all left it in fear once the Hau vanished.

[Toa Of Anarchy]

Check what I found on BS1!

Contest

The floating mask

The floating gold Kanohi Hau beneath the Great Sundial was part of a BIONICLE contest run in 2001. The word shown above it is "RAHI." Contestants were to find words, written in the Matoran script, online or in print, under gold masks such as this one, decode them, write down the words on an official entry form, and then mail the form in for a chance at a 14-karat solid gold Kanohi Hau.

http://biosector01.com/wiki/index.php/Mata_Nui_Online_Game#July

[Toatapio Nuva]

What Tazakk says has been confirmed at some point (long, loooooong ago, like in 2001 or 2002) which means that Takua actually did find a passage through the layer. The whole layer was foreshadowing of Mata Nui's true form, as it was the outer shell of his actual face, instead of the island that covered it. By getting underneath through the sundial, they could keep mining the natural protodermis that was present within the body of the Great Spirit.

 

This always confused me, as this was not depicted in the game at all. I assumed in my head-canon that opening the sundial opened up some other portals in the ground in different places, allowing the Matoran to continue to mine underneath them.

 

Another option is that the sundial is actually the only way into the rock layer, but there was a lot more than the small chamber there and that the button above which the Hau floated was meant to access Mangaia, but at the same level as the button there were multiple side passages to other places to mine in.

[bonesiii]

Now, why was it that Tahu's golden mask was down there at all?

Keeping in mind that was just an illusion, and that Aanchir's answer is the actual real-world answer, it probably symbolized that the event that needed to happen labeled "Rahi" (defeating the Rahi) would begin with the Toa getting their golden Kanohi (and so it did).

Toatapio, correct me if I'm misunderstanding you, but it sounds like you are assuming they did mine beneath the layer. As far as I know, that is not confirmed or stated anywhere. It may have been the original plan, but again, the way they did it in the final version, there's really nothing to mine. Underneath it is a vast empty chamber and a very high elevator down to its floor -- that's it. And the seams they were mining and such were part of the camouflage island -- the inside of the robot is very different, presumably. Bohrok tunnels and suchnot, although it's true that there is rock inside (but probably much deeper down). Anyways, my interpretation is that upon discovering that it wasn't just a convenient way through to more of the same as what was above, they went for their Plan B, which they were only delaying because they weren't yet sure if Plan A would still be possible:

“Turaga,” begins the purple fellow with the large disk strapped to his back, “the mining guilds have hit an underground rock layer that they cannot break through. We fear the protodermis will run out if we cannot continue our digging!”[...]Whenua inquires, “How much remains of the surface deposits?”The Captain looks down at his feet. “They are running out. We may have to look elsewhere for more protodermis. Like Ta-Wahi, or Po-Wahi.”

So, it's implied that when the guildmasters leave (which is before the passageway actually opens; Takua just gets through to the room with the illusion), they realize that holding out hope to continue mining there is pointless, and instead start a new mine somewhere else. Not confirmed, but that seems most consistent.

 

I understand the idea about side passageways -- it's possible, since once you go down in, you can't turn around (so there might be other tunnels over there), but that means there's also no in-story evidence for the idea. I'd say it's strongly implied there's no way through until the elevator can be activated, or else the adventurous Takua would have explored them.

[Toatapio Nuva]

Many Matoran in MNOG say that finding that passageway solved their problems, rather than convince them to move to other places. It was clearly intended that the mining continued underneath the layer (the mention of ancient machinery refers to some of the MU devices) but in the end I'm not sure what people made of that. I'm not saying it's canon, it's just the original intent. But plans change.

[bonesiii]

Many Matoran in MNOG say that finding that passageway solved their problems, rather than convince them to move to other places.

Just to be crystal clear, when you say this are you still talking only about plans? To my knowledge, not many Onu-Matoran speak at all, and only one says anything about the sundial (the prospector next to it). He just says that they had the right idea that it's a passageway through the layer, not whether it solves problems. And the actual guy in charge of the mines, the Chief Prospector, still believes no way through has been found, as he still asks if you are delivering news of a way from Whenua.

 

But, finding the passageway and then realizing it's no good did solve their problems in a sense - it made them realize they need to look elsewhere, before the deposits at the current site run out, IMO.

[Toatapio Nuva]

I was going to argue, but then made a check and realized that you're right - only one Matoran ever speaks about the rock layer after finding the passage. He does imply that the Matoran are mining underneath, though.

[bonesiii]

Or perhaps you inferred it. Whether he implies that or not, who is to say? It's possible, but without evidence, I would go for the other alternative which does appear to have evidence.

 

There's more to the story too. Note this from the conversation of the guildmasters and Whenua:

 

The Captain seems eager to press his point. “Turaga, I must have more men and more machines if we are to know. You must allocate more resources to the mining guilds!”“Captain, I am doing everything I can,” replies Whenua. “No one wants to see the protodermis run out. But Onu-Koro has many problems right now.”As if to support Whenua’s statement, one of the other attendees volunteers one of those many problems. “Without a fresh supply of Lightstones, we cannot light the digging site.”

This may imply that since Takua solved the problem of the lightstones, they were able to allocate more resources and workers to expand the search for "protodermis" (incidentally, we still don't really know what that means, since technically all of it is protodermis, or at least I don't recall it being answered -- if anyone knows, that'd be cool).

 

Also, once the tunnel to Le was finished, they could allocate even more. They may have found a new seam of whatever kind of protodermis they're looking for thanks to these searches, and when they realized how complex the locking system was at the sundial, figured it wasn't worth the trouble, and went elsewhere to mine.

 

Oh, I almost forgot. When Takua went down the elevator, we do briefly see the top of the sundial sealing again. Also, the gnomon disappeared. So, really I guess we do know they couldn't go through there afterward.

 

The sides of the chamber slide away in all directions, so really we do see them, and no other doorways. Plus you could look up at that prospector and again no hints of the tops of other doorways or anything. So yeah... in the game as published, really no evidence at all that they mined through there.

[Makuta_of_Oz]

The mask SEEMS canon... Turaga Whenua mentioned it after the Battle For Kini-Nui.