Life and Light Powers and Masks, oh my!

[Kopekemaster]

Well, I wrote this post once, then my Mac decided to go back a page and it deleted it all. But I've found in the past that when I've written something and it gets deleted, I'm able to write it better the second time.

So here goes. It will probably still involve a lot of jumping around and an explosion of questions and ideas, but should be a little more organized.

 

So, we know that if an Av-Matoran (specifically, Takua) puts on the Mask of Light, he/she becomes a Toa of Light. But isn't this a little unfair, since they would essentially only have one power? For example, other Toa have basically two powers: their elemental power, then their mask power. But for Toa of Light it is only one. True, Light is a more powerful/godlike power, but still.

But this brings up something else, relating to another Legendary (EDIT: well I just looked it up and apparently the Mask of Light isn't Legendary, so I guess I'll ramble on more about that below.) Mask. Before I go further, though, I'm going to make up a Matoran prefix for Life. Let's go with "Li". If, supposing such things as Li-Matoran existed (which, if you think about it, is completely reasonable, since there are Av-Matoran), a Li-Matoran put on the Mask of Life, would they become a Toa of Life? (This, also, seems like a somewhat unfair thing with only being one power, though Life is an EXCEEDINGLY powerful and godlike power.) This would also suggest that Toa Mata Nui was, in fact, a Toa of Life.

BUT I'm going to go even further into this rabbit hole of hypothetical stuff. Since there aren't such things as Matoran of Shielding, Matoran of Illusion, etc. (or none we have seen so far, anyway), this would somewhat suggest that you don't have to be of the power/element/whatever that your mask is. Which would mean that it didn't have to be an Av-Matoran that put on the Mask of Light. Sure, there's "the prophecy" and all, but I don't care about that.

So, if it doesn't have to be an Av-Matoran to put on a Mask of Light, then that would also mean that it wouldn't have to be a Li-Matoran to put on the Mask of Life.

So could basically anyone become a Toa of Light or a Toa of Life?

And I'm not even going to get going on why Legendary/Great (in the case of the Mask of Light) Masks turn Matoran into Toa.

 

Never mind. I lied. I'm going to talk about that now.

 

Why do they do that? Could it be that the Masks themselves are so powerful that it basically overrides the need for a Toa stone? Or is it essentially a Toa stone fused with a Mask?

Also, if, let's say, Takua took off the Mask of Life, would he shrink back down to a Matoran? Or would he remain a Toa? Could another Matoran take the Mask from him and also become a Toa?

Also, could (since not having a Mask on is conducive to unconsciousness) a Toa who has taken his Mask off (such as the ill-inspired Takua from above) put on a powerless Mask? What would that do? I'm fairly certain, however, that they could put on a Great or Legendary Kanohi and would gain its powers.

Could a Toa put on pretty much every Mask, and therefore gain almost every power?

 

AND what is so special about the Mask of Light that it can turn Matoran into Toa? It is grouped with the Great Masks (which also implies that there are multiple of the Mask of Light), but the others (as far as I know) aren't able to do that.

 

 

And Bonesiii, you'd better not make a gigantic post quoting and answering every single one of these questions. I've got my eye on you.

^sorta joking but only sorta

[JAG18]

First a few things,

 

The Mask of Light does have powers, chiefly Light and the ability to "spread understanding to others" whatever that means. Now, what kind of power is "Light" you (hypothetical reader) ask? Well what kind of power is Gravity? Think about Hewkii's Mask of Gravity in 2007.

 

As to what's so special about the Mask of Light; it was created by Artahka, according to BS01, in case the Brotherhood of Makuta ever turned evil and a Toa of Light would be needed. Because, apparently a Toa of Light is the perfect weapon against Makuta.

 

About whether Takunuva could make someone a Toa by putting his mask of their face; Takanuva tried that in "Dark Mirror" on Alternate Takua, but nothing happened. Takanuva even made a joke about how he was testing a theory.

 

I know I overlooked some of the things you mentioned, but I hoped I answered at least some of your questions.

[Kopekemaster]

 

 

About whether Takunuva could make someone a Toa by putting his mask of their face; Takanuva tried that in "Dark Mirror" on Alternate Takua, but nothing happened. Takanuva even made a joke about how he was testing a theory.

So would that imply that once it (the Mask) has made someone a Toa, it isn't able to do it a second time.

And I see what you're saying about Artahka making the Mask of Light, but what I was meaning is why does it have more power than a "regular" Great Mask, since all Great Masks are supposed to be somewhat equivalent in power.

[JAG18]

 

About whether Takunuva could make someone a Toa by putting his mask of their face; Takanuva tried that in "Dark Mirror" on Alternate Takua, but nothing happened. Takanuva even made a joke about how he was testing a theory.

So would that imply that once it (the Mask) has made someone a Toa, it isn't able to do it a second time.

And I see what you're saying about Artahka making the Mask of Light, but what I was meaning is why does it have more power than a "regular" Great Mask, since all Great Masks are supposed to be somewhat equivalent in power.

 

It might just be more the fact that Takua in that dimension wasn't destined to become a Toa. But, I'm not sure how many Matoran in the Main Dimension are destined to become Toa when they put on the Mask of Light.

 

I tend to think that the Mask of Light turning Takua into a Toa wasn't so much a ability/power the mask had, as so much as it was a feature Artakha built into the mask. And indeed the entire reason Artakha created the mask in the first place. If that were true than the Mask of Light only has the powers of Light and Understanding hardly overwhelming when you consider that Matau had a mask that let him cast illusions and shape-shift.

[TERIDAX941]

I think it was theorized that the Avohkii (or Mask of Light) was infused with Toa power on it's creation, so that's why it sparked the transformation Takua experienced. I think that was the only difference between it and other great masks, once it fulfilled it's destiny and creating the one and only toa of light, it just was a really shiny mask. At least that is my understanding, feel free to throw in something I may have missed.

 

As for the Ignika (or mask of life) it's a really bad idea for a matoran to wear it. Reason being is that that mask was to only be worn by the person who was destined to don it and revive the universe (examples being Matoro and the toa who was a part of Jovan's group). Wearing the mask resulted in being used to revive the Great Spirit, though I think that was said to only happen in Karda Nui. If it was used elsewhere, the mask just cursed whoever touched it. The only exception would be Mata Nui, because his spirit was placed into the mask itself and then the mask out of self preservation made a body for him. So, technically a Toa of Life isn't really possible unless the Mask decided to make a Toa and then give him/her life powers.

 

As far as what happens when Takanuva takes off his mask, he did that a couple of times in the story and he remained a Toa.

[bonesiii]

I'm short on time so I am replying as I read; I assume some of my thunder has been proverbially stolen above, please pardon the repetition if so.

So, we know that if an Av-Matoran (specifically, Takua) puts on the Mask of Light, he/she becomes a Toa of Light.

No, it's if a destined Matoran (who, we think, is psychologically ready) uses a "Toa Stone" -- but "stone" can be anything. The important part is the Toa Energy charging up the object. The mask served the purpose. It has nothing to do with Takua's element or it being a mask. Putting on the mask simply symbolized becoming finally ready and willing the Toa Energy charge to drain from the object and into the Matoran, transforming them. That is what we know (though the "ready" part is more of a theoretical deduction that seems necessary than actually confirmed).

 

But isn't this a little unfair, since they would essentially only have one power? For example, other Toa have basically two powers: their elemental power

This has nothing to do with the physics of how he became a Toa. However, it's still a valid question because somebody evidently chose to use the Mask of Light (I think it was Artakha's decision) as a Toa Stone and intended it for a future Toa of Light.

 

Technically it's possible any destined Matoran could have become Toa with it, though, so you could have had a Toa of any element with a Mask of Light. But I think other things prevented this by various means (like the Toa Hagah/Rahaga). There was, after all, a prophecy about Toa of Light inscribed right in the mask, and it seemed to impart some knowledge to Takanuva (masks can store imprints of minds of people who die wearing them, like with Jaller enabling revivals for a short time after death, so this same system apparently can store prophetic knowledge, etc. -- Artakha must have learned how to record it via the Mask of Creation or something).

 

Anyways, the mask does grant some more psychological things only poetically associated with light that his main element might, and it can serve as a backup for when they run out of Elemental Energy.

 

 

*while scrolling up and down to grab the quotes as I type, catches own name...* So you don't want these all answered? ("Only sorta"...) Dunno what to make of that; I'll assume that too is a joke? *continues*

 

 

But this brings up something else, relating to another Legendary (EDIT: well I just looked it up and apparently the Mask of Light isn't Legendary, so I guess I'll ramble on more about that below.) Mask.

Yeah, common misconception about Legendary. But I can see why people mistake that -- it is not the same as a normal mask some Metru Nui Matoran mixed, because of the imparted knowledge and stored Toa Energy (though now it has no charge left, and Takanuva already gained the knowledge; perhaps it has been overwritten by his imprint; the only clear difference now is the inscription on the inside). Although it is just a Great Mask, akin to the Mask of Gravity of Hewkii.

 

Before I go further, though, I'm going to make up a Matoran prefix for Life. Let's go with "Li". If, supposing such things as Li-Matoran existed

I understand you're just using this for convenience, but maybe Ig would be the canonically plausible one? Nevertheless, there are no Matoran with Life association (other than Plants of course). Not something the GBs would likely support, although it would be an awesome idea for fanfics.

[if] a Li-Matoran put on the Mask of Life, would they become a Toa of Life?

Actually it's possible, but this would have nothing to do with the Avhokii -- the Ignika simply might choose to curse such a Matoran by making them a Toa body to weild its powers through like Toa Ignika. But if you ask the same thing about the Vahi of Mask of Creation, no. They don't have Toa Energy stored in them (and the three Legendary Powers aren't actually elements anyways; fans sometimes call them that, even I have in the distant past, but it seems clear Greg doesn't look at them that way now). So, nothing would happen, for the other two Legendary Masks, other than the masks serving to keep Matoran conscious.

 

This would also suggest that Toa Mata Nui was, in fact, a Toa of Life.

In a sense, but it was like Toa Ignika; a body that a spirit that was normally housed in the mask could use to move around (but Mata Nui's spirit instead of Ignika's this time). The actual power was still coming from the mask. So, he was still only a "Toa" in a poetic sense and for the same physical form as a Toa.

So could basically anyone become a Toa of Light or a Toa of Life?

This is just the continuation of your misconception from earlier, but I might as well correct it just for the record in case anyone reading along is still confused on it. It being a Mask of Light did not cause Takua to be a Toa of Light; being an Av-Matoran did. Instead, apparently Artakha thought having a Mask of Light around would be a good psychological rallying point for those that hoped a Toa of Light would one day come into existence to fight the shadowy corrupted Makuta.

 

Some other questions following continue down the path started by that same misconception so hopefully no need to continue answering that...

 

Also, if, let's say, Takua took off the Mask of Life, would he shrink back down to a Matoran?

 

No, the formula only goes one way; Matoran --> Toa --> Turaga, unless of course powerful overrides like the Mask of Life were to get involved.

 

Could another Matoran take the Mask from him and also become a Toa?

I happened to see that Jag answered this already, so I'll only add that the reason it doesn't work is that just like Toa Stones, the Toa energy has been used up.

 

Also, could (since not having a Mask on is conducive to unconsciousness) a Toa who has taken his Mask off (such as the ill-inspired Takua from above) put on a powerless Mask?

First, since I'm unclear by your wording if you're aware of this, the coma results only for Matoran, not Toa (I forget off the top of my head for Turaga). Toa have basically their mental focus halved.

 

Anyways, yes, Toa can wear any mask (same for everybody in the Matoran type of beings; a Matoran can wear the Vahi, it just won't do anything special for him... and probably is a bad idea since on a Matoran's face isn't the best place to store such a dangerous thing if it breaks).

 

Could a Toa put on pretty much every Mask, and therefore gain almost every power?

Sort of; Toa can only somewhat use Legendary masks. The Vahi for example technically has the power of time travel, but no being exists who is capable of the mental discipline needed to use that part of its power, so all known users can only use the parts about slowing down or speeding up the passage of time. Of course, this is technically irrelevant for the Ignika since the mind in the mask can handle the full range of its powers.

which also implies that there are multiple of the Mask of Light

For the record, there's only one, but more could hypothetically be made (that is all that is implied). There's some mask powers that the mixtures are known to Matoran, and others not. It seems that the reason more don't exist is this is a mixture no Matoran has happened to yet discover, though the mixtures for at least some elemental Kanoka/Kanohi are known, namely Fire and Gravity (off the top of my head). So, this is why it took Artakha's Mask of Creation to make it, but it's possible in the future somebody will stumble upon the correct mixture through experimentation (or he might reveal it, etc.).

 

(Actually we may not know for sure that they don't know the mixture but if so apparently nobody else has thought to make a mask out of it.)

 

 

[Edit: Actually, the mixture for the Garai might not be known, since Hewkii got that from the Mask of Life's transformation of his Inika organic mask. Anywho. Fire is.]

 

 

Now reading replies...

 

Takanuva even made a joke about how he was testing a theory.

Right; that theory being that the mask had been a Toa Stone (technically). That was one of Greg's little nods to fan questions over the years as this has been one of the most common.

 

 

why does it have more power than a "regular" Great Mask, since all Great Masks are supposed to be somewhat equivalent in power.

Actually the general rule for elemental masks is that the rules are slightly different than for Toa element versions. Both Mask of Light and of Shadow have poetically associated minor powers along with them, and Gravity has some restrictions that the element proper doesn't have (as seen with the Kal). The only one we don't know enough to say this about is Fire, but we only saw it in Kanoka form (and even there it presumably had some limitations; triggered on impact, etc.).

 

This poetic-extra powers thing appears to be a trait of both Light and Shadow and is almost certainly because of their connection to Inner Light and Inner Shadow.

 

It might just be more the fact that Takua in that dimension wasn't destined to become a Toa.

Not exactly; we know that destined Matoran have a small amount of TE in them already since their beginnings. This universe split off from a choice fork far more recent than Takua's manufacture; he's the oldest Matoran (though I suppose technically we can't rule out that it only obviously deviated recently but a subtle deviation earlier might make Takua not destined, but very unlikely). However, it's likely that the Takua of that universe wasn't ready yet.

 

Still, it's a moot point because the "Toa Stone" was drained.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

[Edit: I may as well mention since twice you touched on the idea, though this has nothing to do with canon, that in the Expanded Multiverse we do have such a thing as an Element Key, which enables element swaps, and even later from fan suggestions I think, a Power Key, that could enable for example Matoran of Shielding. I would not at all rule out the possibility in canon (perhaps in the distant future; maybe Artakha could figure out how to do it, etc.) -- but none are known currently as far as I know.]

Edited March 3, 2014 by bonesiii

[TERIDAX941]

 

[Edit: Actually, the mixture for the Garai might not be known, since Hewkii got that from the Mask of Life's transformation of his Inika organic mask. Anywho. Fire is.]

Actually Bonesii they have found the mixture for the Garai, because the Matoran of Metru Nui were said to use levitation and gravity Kanoka disks in structures and vehicles, so they would simply have to create a mask using the correct level gravity disks.

[bonesiii]

 

[Edit: Actually, the mixture for the Garai might not be known, since Hewkii got that from the Mask of Life's transformation of his Inika organic mask. Anywho. Fire is.]

Actually Bonesii they have found the mixture for the Garai, because the Matoran of Metru Nui were said to use levitation and gravity Kanoka disks in structures and vehicles, so they would simply have to create a mask using the correct level gravity disks.

Actually the power of those disks (I assume we're talking about the airships) was, at least at the time, said to be Increase Weight, not Gravity. It was a subpower of the element of Gravity, much as Freezing is a subpower of Ice, or Telekinesis of Psionics.Unless you're saying Greg later retconned it? (Which would IMO be unfortunate as it was in a lot of printed material like the City Guide.)

[Kopekemaster]

Bonesiii...I warned you...not...to make...gigantic posts...

 

ANYWAY Bonesiii, you pretty much confirmed my suspicions for most of the things, but there are a few exceptions, which I will get to in a moment.

Right now though, yeah I kinda forgot that a semi-canonical prefix for life would be Ig-. And yes Life as an element would be awesome for fanfics. Aaaand I also forgot that a Toa taking off its mask wouldn't result in unconsciousness.

 

Now for the things (or possibly just one thing, I'm just writing as I go) I want to comment further on:

 

 

Actually it's possible, but this would have nothing to do with the Avhokii -- the Ignika simply might choose to curse such a Matoran by making them a Toa body to weild [sic] its powers through like Toa Ignika. But if you ask the same thing about the Vahi of Mask of Creation, no. They don't have Toa Energy stored in them (and the three Legendary Powers aren't actually elements anyways; fans sometimes call them that, even I have in the distant past, but it seems clear Greg doesn't look at them that way now). So, nothing would happen, for the other two Legendary Masks, other than the masks serving to keep Matoran conscious.

That empty quote box is there for no reason whatsoever. I just can't get rid of it for some reason. [bones: Fixed it for you. If it glitches in the future, you can just click the button in the upper left of the edit area, which switches to code mode, and cut the extra quote tags. Then switch back; they should be gone. At least that's one way.]

 

GAH what is wrong with this thing. I wrote an entire response, but when I posted it, it disappeared. WELL I guess I'll just have to write it better this time.

I'm going to post this right now, so that people don't wonder what happened while I re-write my response.

 

So, I'm a bit confused here now (not by you, Bonesiii, but by a possible inconsistency by the writers/planners of Bionicle). Is the Mask of Light the only mask that has its own element? We don't see any Ma-Matoran (illusion), Ak-Matoran (x-ray vision), or anything else like that. So does this just add to the weird-ness of the Mask of Light?

 

Also, Va-Matoran (time) and Crea-Matoran (creation, since we don't have an official name for the Mask of Creation...yet...) would be really awesome for a fanfic (along with Ig-Matoran, of course).

Hmm. I might have to write a fanfic where the traditional elements are switched with Kanohi powers. That might be pretty awesome.

 

Anyway, what are your thoughts? Is this an inconsistency, or is there another explanation?

Edited March 4, 2014 by bonesiii

[TERIDAX941]

Ohhh I see. That makes sense, and I checked biosector01 and it just says that the mask was made with "Disks of Gravity" whatever combination that is haha. Ah well, they're probably made from similar ones just one is stronger than another.

[bonesiii]

Off-topic:

That empty quote box is there for no reason whatsoever. I just can't get rid of it for some reason. [bones: Fixed it for you. If it glitches in the future, you can just click the button in the upper left of the edit area, which switches to code mode, and cut the extra quote tags. Then switch back; they should be gone. At least that's one way.]

GAH what is wrong with this thing. I wrote an entire response, but when I posted it, it disappeared. WELL I guess I'll just have to write it better this time.

See the note I edited in there about the extra quote glitch. To the second, always copy your entire post to the clipboard before sending through in case of such glitches (on Windows, Control + A to select all, then Control + C to copy; if it does glitch, I would then go to the Notepad program or Word or something and paste it (Control V), and remove things like quote tags and send it through without code (you could just use quote marks for example), in case a glitch in the code was the problem.

 

Back on topic:

 

Is the Mask of Light the only mask that has its own element? We don't see any Ma-Matoran (illusion), Ak-Matoran (x-ray vision), or anything else like that. So does this just add to the weird-ness of the Mask of Light?

You know about the eight basic powers of protodermis, mixing, and all that, right? Well, somewhere in the infinite possible range of mixtures, actual elemental powers can be mixed (all 16 of them). And then you can make a mask of that element or a disk, etc. Does that answer your question? (I wasn't sure I understood you right.)

 

Also, I mentioned the Garai in my other post; that is an elemental mask too. (And nothing would prevent the Disk of Fire from being turned into one, of course.)

 

Is this an inconsistency, or is there another explanation?

Not sure I see what you mean about an inconsistency. Hopefully the above clears it up.

[Toa Of Anarchy]

Just a question on all this "must be destined to become a Toa" stuff. We all know that Toa can infuse their power in a stone, like Lhikan did as well as the Toa Metru, and it was this power that turned them into Toa. So theoretically could a Toa make a Matoran a Toa even though he wasn't "destined" to become one simply by siphoning some of his power into a stone?

[JAG18]

Just a question on all this "must be destined to become a Toa" stuff. We all know that Toa can infuse their power in a stone, like Lhikan did as well as the Toa Metru, and it was this power that turned them into Toa. So theoretically could a Toa make a Matoran a Toa even though he wasn't "destined" to become one simply by siphoning some of his power into a stone?

If only you knew the true power of Destiny!

 

Joking aside, I would say that Destiny cannot be overridden by mere Universian (Matoran Universian) actions. Their is something scientific to this, namely that if someone wasn't coded, by destiny, to become a Toa I doubt that the Toa Stone would have any effect. I'd be like trying to give someone a Blood Transfusion, but with the wrong blood type: their body couldn't accept it, because it wasn't made to accept it.

[Kopekemaster]

 

Just a question on all this "must be destined to become a Toa" stuff. We all know that Toa can infuse their power in a stone, like Lhikan did as well as the Toa Metru, and it was this power that turned them into Toa. So theoretically could a Toa make a Matoran a Toa even though he wasn't "destined" to become one simply by siphoning some of his power into a stone?

If only you knew the true power of Destiny!

 

Joking aside, I would say that Destiny cannot be overridden by mere Universian (Matoran Universian) actions. Their is something scientific to this, namely that if someone wasn't coded, by destiny, to become a Toa I doubt that the Toa Stone would have any effect. I'd be like trying to give someone a Blood Transfusion, but with the wrong blood type: their body couldn't accept it, because it wasn't made to accept it.

 

I'd have to say that your argument actually supports what you're arguing against, namely, ToA's point. There are only 5 "groups" of blood types, and even the super-minute sub-categories only goes to 32. That isn't a different-for-every-person thing. It would have to be a specific number or code or something that only one Matoran had that would fit the "lock" on the mask.

Not saying that I don't agree with you, but just bringing up that point.

[LockmanCapulet]

Just a question on all this "must be destined to become a Toa" stuff. We all know that Toa can infuse their power in a stone, like Lhikan did as well as the Toa Metru, and it was this power that turned them into Toa. So theoretically could a Toa make a Matoran a Toa even though he wasn't "destined" to become one simply by siphoning some of his power into a stone?

No. Those few Matoran destined to become Toa already have latent Toa Power. The bit of Toa Power from the Toa Stone simply triggers it, transforming them.

[JAG18]

 

 

Just a question on all this "must be destined to become a Toa" stuff. We all know that Toa can infuse their power in a stone, like Lhikan did as well as the Toa Metru, and it was this power that turned them into Toa. So theoretically could a Toa make a Matoran a Toa even though he wasn't "destined" to become one simply by siphoning some of his power into a stone?

If only you knew the true power of Destiny!

 

Joking aside, I would say that Destiny cannot be overridden by mere Universian (Matoran Universian) actions. Their is something scientific to this, namely that if someone wasn't coded, by destiny, to become a Toa I doubt that the Toa Stone would have any effect. I'd be like trying to give someone a Blood Transfusion, but with the wrong blood type: their body couldn't accept it, because it wasn't made to accept it.

 

I'd have to say that your argument actually supports what you're arguing against, namely, ToA's point. There are only 5 "groups" of blood types, and even the super-minute sub-categories only goes to 32. That isn't a different-for-every-person thing. It would have to be a specific number or code or something that only one Matoran had that would fit the "lock" on the mask.

Not saying that I don't agree with you, but just bringing up that point.

 

Well, I guess the joke is on me for trying to use an analogy of something I don't completely understand. So, just try and ignore that and think of the rest of the argument.

[bonesiii]

That isn't a different-for-every-person thing.

Maybe I missed something, but the blood types argument seems sound. All you need is two (incompatible) types for the argument to work, since with Matoran it isn't a different for everybody thing either, just a destined or not destined. (Though why you get picked to be destined certainly varies.)

 

Anyways, though, I would have to say it's conceivable that there might be a way for "lesser beings" like Toa to figure out how to "force destiny" like that because what we know about destined Matoran is that they have a small amount of TE already in them. Some have theorized that this is the only difference, and if so, then what if a Toa charges up the Matoran directly? But I dunno. It could go either way, really. Maybe there's some programming in them to prevent it.

[fishers64]

Starting from the top...

So, we know that if an Av-Matoran (specifically, Takua) puts on the Mask of Light, he/she becomes a Toa of Light. But isn't this a little unfair, since they would essentially only have one power? For example, other Toa have basically two powers: their elemental power, then their mask power. But for Toa of Light it is only one. True, Light is a more powerful/godlike power, but still.

If this was ineffective, Takanuva could have donned a different mask should the need arise. But keep in mind that light is a "instantaneous" power. Unlike water or stone, etc, where you summon it and it's there, or fire, where you can summon it and maintain it as long as there's fuel - light is there and gone, and continual application of Elemental energy would be required to maintain its presence. This would be a drain on EE, so it makes sense to have the additional support provided by the mask.

But this brings up something else, relating to another Legendary (EDIT: well I just looked it up and apparently the Mask of Light isn't Legendary, so I guess I'll ramble on more about that below.) Mask. Before I go further, though, I'm going to make up a Matoran prefix for Life. Let's go with "Li". If, supposing such things as Li-Matoran existed (which, if you think about it, is completely reasonable, since there are Av-Matoran), a Li-Matoran put on the Mask of Life, would they become a Toa of Life? (This, also, seems like a somewhat unfair thing with only being one power, though Life is an EXCEEDINGLY powerful and godlike power.) This would also suggest that Toa Mata Nui was, in fact, a Toa of Life.

I think a Toa of Time or Life or Creation might be theoretically possible, (witness Toa Ignika) but if the powers of Time or life cannot be reduced from Legendary to Great, than there is no way that this power can be reduced from Toa to Matoran.

BUT I'm going to go even further into this rabbit hole of hypothetical stuff. Since there aren't such things as Matoran of Shielding, Matoran of Illusion, etc. (or none we have seen so far, anyway), this would somewhat suggest that you don't have to be of the power/element/whatever that your mask is. Which would mean that it didn't have to be an Av-Matoran that put on the Mask of Light. Sure, there's "the prophecy" and all, but I don't care about that.

I'm pretty sure that there is an alternate dimension out there where Jaller became a Toa of Fire with the Mask of Light on his face.

It's possible that there is a mechanism in the mask that detects the element of the Matoran before transforming them, however. The Order felt that they needed to spread the Matoran around the universe as an insurance policy, so that might have been the reason (along with the fact that you need Av for the light Element, as opposed to something else).

So, if it doesn't have to be an Av-Matoran to put on a Mask of Light, then that would also mean that it wouldn't have to be a Li-Matoran to put on the Mask of Life.
So could basically anyone become a Toa of Light or a Toa of Life?

Again, see above. The element is determined by the element of the Matoran, not the mask. A mask is just a mask - is doesn't determine the element of anything but itself.

And I'm not even going to get going on why Legendary/Great (in the case of the Mask of Light) Masks turn Matoran into Toa.

Never mind. I lied. I'm going to talk about that now.

They don't.

AND what is so special about the Mask of Light that it can turn Matoran into Toa? It is grouped with the Great Masks (which also implies that there are multiple of the Mask of Light), but the others (as far as I know) aren't able to do that.

There could be multiple Masks of Light, it's just that Artahka only made one.

And Bonesiii, you'd better not make a gigantic post quoting and answering every single one of these questions. I've got my eye on you.
^sorta joking but only sorta

You don't tell someone to stop breathing and be surprised when they disobey. In further case, telling someone NOT to do something increases the odds of them doing it by 400%. (I could go into a long explanation of why, but I don't think it's necessary...)

 

I did lol at this originally though, especially after the bonesiii response I knew was coming. So I guess it would count as a valid joke.

 

I think if you shot a Matoran with enough TE, he might become a Toa. However, it's also possible that it might not only be a matter of energy but of mechanism to make the transformation happen, and no matter how much you shoot a non-destined Matoran, the transformation won't happen because there's nothing to hold the energy and make the process happen.

 

More interesting to me, though, is how Artahka got the Toa Energy into the Mask in the first place. Can the Mask of Creation make Toa Energy? Or did Artahka just bribe some Toa to put some energy into the mask?

[JAG18]

 

 

More interesting to me, though, is how Artahka got the Toa Energy into the Mask in the first place. Can the Mask of Creation make Toa Energy? Or did Artahka just bribe some Toa to put some energy into the mask?

It's certainly a good question, I lean towards the Mask creates Toa Energy, although I thought that the MoC could only create corporal things that the user knew how to make. In which case, bribery might be our best bet.

[bonesiii]

Artakha can make Toa, so it stands to reason he can make Toa Energy, without the need to get it from pre-existing Toa. The original Toa Energy had to start somewhere, after all. (Artakha himself might not directly make it but I mean it is made on his island somehow.)

[fishers64]

If there was a bunch of TE made on Artahka's island, why are there not a bunch of Toa from Artahka? I would think a certain process to distill TE from other energies (assuming this is even viable) would have to happen, and it would be time-consuming and expensive, enough for Artahka to decide the mass-producing Toa, perhaps to defend his island after the Brotherhood raid, was a bad idea, and instead to hire the OoMN to do the dirty work. (Although that might fall under the "Artahka is an inventor, not a strategist." thing again...)

 

It's also possible that the GBs gave Artahka (or Artahka found) a resevoir of TE with a limited amount, enough to make the Mata and the Mask of Light.

[TERIDAX941]

 

 

If there was a bunch of TE made on Artahka's island, why are there not a bunch of Toa from Artahka?

 

It was said that Artakha doesn't like making living being after his failure with the crystal serpents. He got specific instructions on how to build the Toa Mata so that's why he was able to do that, but without those previous orders, he has kept away from such creations, rather dabbling in weapons and tools and other lifeless but useful objects.

[Kopekemaster]

And Bonesiii, you'd better not make a gigantic post quoting and answering every single one of these questions. I've got my eye on you.

^sorta joking but only sorta

You don't tell someone to stop breathing and be surprised when they disobey. In further case, telling someone NOT to do something increases the odds of them doing it by 400%. (I could go into a long explanation of why, but I don't think it's necessary...)

 

I did lol at this originally though, especially after the bonesiii response I knew was coming. So I guess it would count as a valid joke.

Yeah, I was just joking.

 

 

 

That isn't a different-for-every-person thing.

Maybe I missed something, but the blood types argument seems sound. All you need is two (incompatible) types for the argument to work, since with Matoran it isn't a different for everybody thing either, just a destined or not destined. (Though why you get picked to be destined certainly varies.)

 

Anyways, though, I would have to say it's conceivable that there might be a way for "lesser beings" like Toa to figure out how to "force destiny" like that because what we know about destined Matoran is that they have a small amount of TE already in them. Some have theorized that this is the only difference, and if so, then what if a Toa charges up the Matoran directly? But I dunno. It could go either way, really. Maybe there's some programming in them to prevent it.

 

What I'm saying is that several (hundreds, thousands, millions) of people can have the same blood type. That's why blood transfusions exist.

 

 

Just a question on all this "must be destined to become a Toa" stuff. We all know that Toa can infuse their power in a stone, like Lhikan did as well as the Toa Metru, and it was this power that turned them into Toa. So theoretically could a Toa make a Matoran a Toa even though he wasn't "destined" to become one simply by siphoning some of his power into a stone?

No. Those few Matoran destined to become Toa already have latent Toa Power. The bit of Toa Power from the Toa Stone simply triggers it, transforming them.

 

Hmm. I haven't heard of that before. That would explain how destiny in Bionicle works, though.

[JAG18]

BS01 says that Artakha can only make Toa if the Great Beings give him the materials, so that might explain why his island isn't swarming with Toa.

[fishers64]

 

 

That isn't a different-for-every-person thing.

Maybe I missed something, but the blood types argument seems sound. All you need is two (incompatible) types for the argument to work, since with Matoran it isn't a different for everybody thing either, just a destined or not destined. (Though why you get picked to be destined certainly varies.)

 

Anyways, though, I would have to say it's conceivable that there might be a way for "lesser beings" like Toa to figure out how to "force destiny" like that because what we know about destined Matoran is that they have a small amount of TE already in them. Some have theorized that this is the only difference, and if so, then what if a Toa charges up the Matoran directly? But I dunno. It could go either way, really. Maybe there's some programming in them to prevent it.

 

What I'm saying is that several (hundreds, thousands, millions) of people can have the same blood type. That's why blood transfusions exist.

 

 

Wouldn't that be comparable, seeing as hundreds, thousands, millions, of Matoran can be destined to become Toa?

[bonesiii]

The number of people sharing one blood type seems to me to be irrelevant to the argument. The original question, if bad memory serves, was whether you could Toa-ize a non-destined Matoran by blasting him with enough Toa Energy. So, it's comparable to trying to give someone a blood transfusion with the wrong type. Anywho. (But it's just an analogy; we don't know for you sure can't Toa-ize someone that way. Like fishers said, depends on if there's a mechanism necessary in addition to a tiny TE charge.)

[Chro]

Your mention of the lack of Matoran of Shielding and such gives me an interesting idea. Parallel reality where there were Matoran of mask powers, and masks of elements, and only those. I think that'd be neat. Just food for thought.

[Kopekemaster]

Your mention of the lack of Matoran of Shielding and such gives me an interesting idea. Parallel reality where there were Matoran of mask powers, and masks of elements, and only those. I think that'd be neat. Just food for thought.

 

Yeah, I was thinking that would be pretty awesome too.

[LockmanCapulet]

 

Your mention of the lack of Matoran of Shielding and such gives me an interesting idea. Parallel reality where there were Matoran of mask powers, and masks of elements, and only those. I think that'd be neat. Just food for thought.

 

Yeah, I was thinking that would be pretty awesome too.

 

The six Metru could contain Ha-Matoran, Ak-Matoran, Ka-Matoran, Mi-Matoran, Ka-Matoran, and Pa-Matoran!

[TERIDAX941]

That would be interesting... but then there'd be a bunch of matoran types because we've already got dozens of mask powers, and only so many element powers. So, the tables would be flipped, masks would only be so many types, and there's be a *bunch* of different Toa and such lol