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Velika's Future Victims?


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So, I've been mulling around an idea to maaaaybe, eventually do a short sequel to my retelling of Bionicle (if people like the original enough), set after Velika's (presumed) eventual defeat, since my retelling won't include the plot of the unfinished serials except to hint at a few things setting them up. The main difficulty with doing this (other than my own time issues of course) would probably be our ignorance of the aftermath of his attempt to come to power. If I were to do that, I would want to try to avoid many details in case Greg ever does finish the serials, but some would be hard to avoid.

 

Biggest question is, who else would he likely kill? If I were to show a character in the future and then Greg did finish, and it turns out he or she was killed, that would be unfortunate (though it would be clear that the sequel is necessarily less canon-fitting than the retelling off the bat, so no huge loss).

 

This asks both who he would target and who he would succeed in actually killing. But more targeting because the struggles against an enemy are less predictable, and such a sequel could simply avoid mention of people he might target but might still be alive.

 

Canonically we know that aside from Karzahni and Tren Krom, he also targeted all the characters mentioned in the second paragraph of The Powers That Be Chapter 4, and planned to target the Toa Nuva later.

 

What Greg previously revealed about who he was targeting was:

 

He was doing some housecleaning.

And:

Velika is eliminating wild cards, beings who are acting way outside of the expected parameters of the GB's plans.

 

But neither answer is very helpful in figuring out future targets; for example, we don't know the expected parameters (though we could theorize in some cases). But Greg's latest confirmation that Velika wants to rule gives evidence of an idea of a direction to look -- notice that many of his confirmed targets are or have been rulers.

 

Karzahni ruled a land. Tren Krom briefly ruled the entire Matoran Universe. Artakha ruled a land. Helryx ruled the Order, Miserix the Brotherhood. Even with Tuyet, she evidently has aspirations to rule and Takanuva at least knows this from the "Tuyetverse". If this reasoning is right, he's eliminating potential competition.

 

By contrast, with the Toa Nuva, who were more "servant-heroes", Velika seems more willing for them to live for a while, and die at a more strategic time. (This could be interpreted as fear that killing them before he has gained enough political power, if the public found out he was behind it, would bias them against him too much because they are popular heroes, but once he gains enough power that this wouldn't matter as much, could off them to remove them as a threat.)

 

Sheer power is likely a reason too, most obvious with Tuyet, but also Brutaka -- mainly for his mask, and Vezon has the same mask now -- and Axonn. But if this reasoning is correct it could suggest that these four (or three if he is aware of Tuyet's desire to rule) are more incidental victims that he's politically okay with killing early but wouldn't necessarily be his primary victims. Although Axonn did lead the Voya Nui Matoran briefly. [Edit: Actually, forgot that he was once one of the most feared warlords in the MU, using conquest. So he counts under potential ruler more than I thought... darn my memory, 'cuz I actually did mention this in the retelling.]

 

I think with Vezon we could also appeal directly to the "way outside expected parameters" thing, on so many levels. :P

 

So, I suspect his priorities would be:

 

1) Competition for rule.

 

2) Way outside expected parameters (thus harder to predict and "chess out" how they'll react later).

 

3) Heroic types.

 

4) Other threats that wouldn't want to bow to him but would do so selfishly. (This and the above may be interchangeable depending on the individual, etc. -- these are just rough generalities.)

 

5) Anybody that resists his rule once set up (like just normal citizens now objecting to his more ironfisted style of rule once they experience it themselves).

 

 

So, beings of power would not be targeted per se. He would probably have a "live and let live" list of powerful individuals he thinks would accept his rule and help enforce it.

 

The Shadowed One might be near the top of his "let live" list; he has a long history of proving that he can work with higher leaders; he leads mercenaries traditionally. There are issues; he killed his own partner, obsessed over ruling Metru Nui, and when just two of his group were killed, went to war over it (Velika might want to off some of them at his discretion, but we don't know enough about how trigger-happy he is). It's possible that as ruler of the Dark Hunters he could quickly oscillate onto the top priority kill list. :shrugs:

 

Various Dark Hunters would also top the live list probably, even if their actual leader might not. Former servants of the Brotherhood perhaps. Probably not anybody under the Order but you never know.

 

Turaga, Raanu, and the like might possibly make it onto the kill list as a combination of competition (albeit politically only; lacking actual powers) and heroic popularity.

 

The Element Lords? They were originally rulers, so I'd say probably yes, if TK was so high on his priority list, factoring for their sheer power. Though they have been uninterested in ruling for a long time. But neither do they submit to authority well, so I think they'd be targeted, but possibly as lower priorities because they're usually just off doing their own thing for now. Also, there's just the matter of them being the main evidence, other than their Shattering itself, of the other GBs' mistakes in method of rule. (Of course, you could then argue he might keep them around to let them be like pests reminding people why his kind of rule is "better".)

 

Goldiflocks? (Golden-skinned Skakdi combo.) Probably offed.

 

Annona probably would try hard to be on the live and let live list considering her self-preservationist history, but unsure. I doubt she'd be an early target, but hard to judge because of the importance of the GBs' early encounter with her. That might bias him toward OR against her. [Edit: See first two replies; Annona is already out of the picture, apparently for good, though she wasn't dead yet at last update.]

 

Anyways, just some initial thoughts. Does anybody think I might be on the right track?

Edited by bonesiii
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The Fish up there is right. Annona was sent away to another world populated with others like her where they would feed off each other's dreams.

As for the Brutaka part, remember that Terry shattered his mask while they were all in the Core Processor, so the only other Olmak in the universe was fused to Vezon.

 

Aside from that, this sounds quite likely. But I have to ask: where did it say Velika intended to rule? Was it hinted at in-story, or did it come from Greg?

 

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Ah yes, forgot about Annona's defeat.

 

Yeah, Barraki would make sense as competition.

 

Actually, maybe Mata Nui himself might? He never did really "rule" in a governing sense, but his guilt over the serious consequences might at least make him later decide he should act to take Velika out at least. And of course the Ignika's mind itself might want to do that. That could get interesting -- how do you stop the Ignika?

 

where did it say Velika intended to rule?

The link to the new quotes is in the first post. :) First paragraph.

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I could see the Golden Being striking Velika as a threat, but how do you beat the guy who can make your worst nightmare reality? I suppose a surprise attack might do it...perhaps another one of those IEDs?

 

Actually, maybe Mata Nui himself might? He never did really "rule" in a governing sense, but his guilt over the serious consequences might at least make him later decide he should act to take Velika out at least. And of course the Ignika's mind itself might want to do that. That could get interesting -- how do you stop the Ignika?

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Is Takanuva being included as part of the Nuva here? I'd classify him as less of a political threat and more a real threat than the Nuva, because the Nuva could pop off and become Turaga at any time, whereas Takanuva still has something left to do. I suppose that could link in with Velika's plan potentially.

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I'd go along with the Barraki idea, I mean after all, they're back to their "normal" selves, (minus Carapar and Takadox is who knows where) and they're most likely going to try and carve out their own empires again, so they'd be prime targets for Velika. :) Maybe you could have it that Takadox allied himself with Velika to kill of his fellow warlords with the promise that he'll be the only one left as supreme ruler of that world? :D Sounds like something that old insect would do. ;)

 

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I've been considering this for a while, and I agree with everyone listed above. I would also like to add the Bahrag (no use for the Bohrok on Spherus Magna, and their programming probably doesn't cover "living in harmony with the Agori"), Artakha (he's even more powerful than his brother, so that's a no-brainer), and possibly Gaardus (it was strongly implied he's responsible for the Red Star's breakdown, which makes him a dangerous and unpredictable entity).

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For the Ignika, I meant more of how to avoid the destruction unleashing a wave of life power. Something more like the defeat of Annona might be what he goes for actually.

 

When I say Nuva, I don't mean Takanuva but it's true he was once sort of considered in their team, and has continued to help them. Anyways, I agree Velika might be aware that his destiny hasn't been fulfilled, possibly making him a threat. Unless he thinks its a destiny that works to his advantage.

 

Yeah, Takadox might try the sellout thing again. Velika seems strategic enough to actually use it. Could be.

 

Artakha was mentioned in the first post; we already know he's a target. :) Bahrag... well, there's been past topics on what they might be up to, I forget if anything definite was established. Not sure what to think about that. Gaardus -- maybe, but I suspect Velika wants Gaardus around because of his plans for the Red Star (though we're only reading between lines on that, he might not care about the RS). He was close by, wasn't he, when TK was killed? Though no idea if Velika could have known that. But it seems more like he wanted Gaardus as a witness (partially) to set RS events in motion. Maybe a later target though.

 

Love as a malfunction -- actually canonically romantic love simply didn't occur in the MU (but did on SM and is natural). I doubt he would focus on it even if it was there, but who knows. Other kinds of love like concern for others in general might actually be an abberation, I'm not sure, and he might target some heroic types like that because they'd be likely to want to stand against him no matter the odds. On the other hand, it's hard to reconcile an image of Velika as coldhearted killer alone, with his 2006 portrayal; at times he seemed to want his 'friends' at the time to survive and seemed to care about them in some ways. So not sure how he'd do that. I doubt it would be simple.

 

Re: where it goes -- the topic is about possible canon theories related to Greg's news. :) The bit about a potential fanfic idea is just to explain what made me think of the question and we always allow that kind of thing here; if someone brings up a question even only for fanfic purposes, as long as it's focused on what is the case or may be the case canonically (to qualify as a theory, etc.) it's okay. :) This could also have relevance to many other people's fanfics, of course. Basically, their reason for thinking of the question is irrelevant; it's the question and/or canonically evidenced theories that matter here. (But yes, those other places are where discussion directly about elements of fanfics that aren't based in canon-fitting theories would go.)

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Maybe Lesovikk might be a potential victim ?

He ruled the first team of Toa and might want to play the hero

against Velika on his quest for redemption. His past his very dark

and he has nothing to loose. Velika might want to get rid of somebody like that.

 

However, maybe Velika don't want to kill him for some reason, explaining why

he used Lesovik Sword to kill Karzanni. Making Lesovik a murderer might be a try

to get rid of him without killing me.

 

In the end, do we know for sure Lesovik is still alive ? We have not seen him for while and

we have no clue of what he have been up to. Maybe Velika took him out and then used his sword

to kill Karzanni to act as a distraction so that people would focus on finding him but never would.

Meanwhile he could take his plan to an end without anyone suspecting anything.

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First, bonesiii, I somewhat questioned your idea of Velika's Murder Criteria; it is certainly a logical conclusion that if he aims to rule, then it should be a given that he would go after possible rivals. However, my thoughts have always been that when Greg said "wild cards" he meant powerful beings who fit into that "third way" moral alignment, neither good (Toa, OoMN) or strictly evil (Makuta). Karzahni the rogue warlord certainly fits into that and Tren Krom the Wanderer could fit into that. Anyway, your Velika Murder Criteria is probably right, but I just thought I'd mention that.

 

I support the Barraki, Artakha and maybe the Golden Fusion as probable targets. Considering that The Shadowed One appears to be in a very good position to establish a "new order" on Spherus Magna, Velika should go after him soon enough (although whether he knows what TSO is planning is a good question).

 

Also, there are two things I'd like to commit on,

 

 

That could get interesting -- how do you stop the Ignika?

This is like asking, how do you cause a giant blob of power (Tren Krom) to explode into a million pieces? Greg did mention that Velika helped create all these things and as such should know how to destroy them.

 

 

 

....it's hard to reconcile an image of Velika as coldhearted killer alone, with his 2006 portrayal; at times he seemed to want his 'friends' at the time to survive and seemed to care about them in some ways.

Velika probably only saw The Matoran Resistance Team as a "means to end" in other words people he could use to achieve his then current goals. (I'm basing that off another Greg quote, by the way.)

 

 

I think that's about all I can think of saying right now.

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However, my thoughts have always been that when Greg said "wild cards" he meant powerful beings who fit into that "third way" moral alignment

I agree -- but the new quote seems to put a new angle on it. :shrugs:

 

Quote

That could get interesting -- how do you stop the Ignika?

This is like asking, how do you cause a giant blob of power (Tren Krom) to explode into a million pieces?

Ah, but killing Tren Krom in principle is easy to understand and even expect; had we known he was going to die beforehand, blasting living jelly apart seems the predictable way to go. But a mask that if destroyed is a disaster, probably ruining everything, that's another matter; any number of ways to do it, which makes the specific method he'd choose less predictable. Just walking up to it and smashing it is probably the one method he couldn't use, for that reason. That was what I meant. :) (Of course, this assumes GBs can't just switch off any target's powers any time they want, including even Legendary Masks, but I'm sort of assuming not for those because of Lifer.)

 

Really, the specific method of killing TK isn't relevant to that point. He could have been poisoned and then the gelatinous carcass just sort of melted away, but the point is Velika could just kill him on the spot. Not so (or so it seems) with the Ignika (and thus Mata Nui, unless his mind could perhaps be deleted from the mask?).

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Ah, but the destruction of the Ignika only means the end of the world if it's destroyed within the Matoran Universe. Greg was always very explicit about this. I expect damage done to it on Spherus Magna would result in, at most, a release of Life energy, like it did in the Pit.

 

Of course, if you try and fail to destroy the Ignika, then get it mad... that's when the apocalypse is upon you. :P

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Not sure it's so clear. All the Legendary Masks still contain a vast amount of energy and that should still get released catastrophically. The major distinction I'm sure of is that in the MU, the entire MU gets affected. So the entirety of SM might not get affected (and certainly not the entire actual universe), but that doesn't mean it's safe. I presume there's still a range of disaster. Though admittedly I don't have actual quotes for this. It has come up before but my memory is fuzzy on it.

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Bahrag... well, there's been past topics on what they might be up to, I forget if anything definite was established. Not sure what to think about that.

 

It doesn't matter what you think about it. :P All that matters is what Velika thinks about it. If he considers them a threat or a wild card, they're toast. And I don't see any reason he wouldn't. A, they're crazy powerful, what with five elemental powers plus acid and telepathy and their weird symbiosis thing. B, the Bahrag have shown already that their programming is strictly limited; if they didn't know how to deal with Matoran living on Mata Nui, how do you think they'll react to Spherus Magna?

 

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My point was, as a GB, since the Bahrag were made by GBs and obsessed with following their programming to a tee, Velika may know that they aren't a threat. Or even might view them as valuable tools if he can reprogram them. IMO they seem more like the polar opposites of wildcards, and have no aspirations to rule (over Matoran, Agori, etc. that is). We know where they are, but we don't know that they would be confused about where they are. Nor do we really know they wouldn't, but cleaning would involve sending Bohrok up through the nests onto land directly above, so I suspect it's obvious to them that SM doesn't count as something to be cleaned. :shrugs: Could be wrong.

 

Basically I'm saying I think it's most likely Velika will either ignore them or try to use them. He might destroy them but I think that's only a small chance.

 

Of course, if they ever did decide to break out of their programming, there's always the risk they could try to attach Krana to everybody lol. So the rule-competition thing could come into it, heh.

 

 

Also, they kinda did know how to deal with Matoran living there. Ignore them. Unless and until they became a threat. Then fight and enslave. :) But the point is, the Matoran were a problem because they were on the camouflage island; SM is not that island.

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Hey, bonesiii thought I'd take a break from scanning the Chat with Greg topic to drop this by you. Hope it's useful for your story.

 

 

Q) If Velika wants to eliminate powerful beings in the universe, would he end up going after Tobduck and the Alternate Teridax?

A) I am not sure if alternate Teridax would be at the power level necessary for Velika to worry about him. He might be. But Velika seems more concerned with "wild card" characters than with characters who are all about imposing some kind of order on the universe.

Page 199 Post 1.

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If you just wanted to drop this by bonesiii for use in his story, you'd have been better off using a PM. However, this is very relevant information to the debate at hand, so thanks.

 

That said... If a Makuta with 42+ Kraata powers and the Mask of Shadows isn't powerful enough to concern Velika, who would be? :P And on the order vs. chaos front... that lends an interesting insight to Velika's plan. Perhaps he would rather recruit Alt. Teridax than kill him, in the hopes that Terry would help him forge a new world order. After all, Terry served the GBs in an alternate universe -- why wouldn't he defer to them here? Fanfics ahoy! :P

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Well, that quote suggest that Velika wants to kill those who could potentialy rise against him for ethical reasons, ambitions or even by their insanity.

After all, why would he kill people who would potentially agree with him and have the power to do so.

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A previous topic estabilshed Tobduk as 90% likely to be the deputy leader. I doubt the group will disband, if only because the disbandees would have to face an irritated Tobduk. And an irritated Tobduk is...well, let's just say that I wouldn't want to be around when that goes down.

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Well now, we should consider the disturbing possibility that the Order might actually like Velika's style of leadership, or some of them. I doubt Axonn would for example but we already know he's targeted. But they both share in common a willingness to kill "for good" (or for their goals).

 

Still doubtful though.

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Bonesiii, that is a disturbing thought...and now that I think of it--considering the Order's morally questionable track record and all--I could see a schism in the Order with some members siding with Velika and others trying to remain faithful to Heylrx and Tobduk.

 

Yeah, it's a bit unlikely, although considering Velika's power, it might be more unlikely that he would even think of needing anyone else to help him in his plans.

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I think that if Velika really does kill Helryx, any alliance with the Order is out. While the Dark Hunters or the Brotherhood might view killing off the last leader as a sign of strength, I think the Order would be more likely to view slaying Helryx as an affront to the entire organization.

 

Thereby creating the Velika vs. the Order wars. :P

 

(For that reason, I'm wondering if Velika might be a bit too "trigger happy" and that might lead to his downfall. Nobody really shed too many tears over Karzahni or TK, but the people in the fortress have connections and stuff. The "you killed my best friend and/or leader I've been loyal to from thick and thin" factor might build a little too much opposition for even the most inventive of Matoran/GBs to handle.)

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The "you killed my best friend and/or leader I've been loyal to from thick and thin" factor might build a little too much opposition for even the most inventive of Matoran/GBs to handle.)

 

Q) Do you think anyone short of the Great Beings could stop him [Velika] (i.e. a Toa-Order of Mata Nui alliance?)

A) I think you would need a bigger alliance than that.

Page 258

 

Your probably right about the improbability of a Velika/Order alliance, but I'm pretty sure that after Velika takes care of all the most powerful people, he won't care who comes for him.

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I'm beginning to wonder if Velika was even going to succeed in killing off the beings in the GB fortress... at least not all of them, maybe there'll be one tragedy or so. Just cuz, all those characters are one's we've grown to really know and enjoy (especially Axonn Brutaka and Vezon) so I am hesitant to assume that Greg was going to eliminate them all in one blow. At least, that's not how I would wanted to continue the story, but then again I'm not the writer haha

 

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I see Velika targeting pretty much anyone with more power than a Toa. Helryx, being the first and most powerful Toa, is naturally on his hit-list. I can imagine Artakha trying to form some sort of "live as his servant" treaty with Velika for self-preservation, and Miserix and the alternate Teridax are no-brainers. (I kinda like Miserix though, so I hope we see what will happen with them.)

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How about Kazi?

I'm afraid to ask but... how did you come to this conclusion? :blink:

 

This post helped... :lol:

 

If Velika is going to put himself in as Ruler of SM though, I'm not 100% sure that he would want to reveal himself as a GB. So he might want to use the "speaking in riddles" tactic again - and beings who dislike that as opposed to being intrigued could be a problem.

 

Even if he does, he will likely want to make an example of some Matoran to avoid opposition. A Matoran who disliked him before he came to power would be a good choice - avoid a potential revolutionary leader.

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I'm sure Takanuva would be a target if he found out about his universe-hopping shenanigans, right? Someone who has potentially seen a whole bunch of alternate timelines and worlds like he has would definitely be a wild card and a threat, I would think. If I were Velika and I found out about Takanuva, I would immediately consider that Takanuva saw an alternate world where he learned of Velika's plans and I would get really worried about that. Unless Takanuva isn't around at the moment, or..? I've been out of the loop as far as the SM serials go, sorry.

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How about Kazi?

I'm afraid to ask but... how did you come to this conclusion? :blink:

 

This post helped... :lol:

 

If Velika is going to put himself in as Ruler of SM though, I'm not 100% sure that he would want to reveal himself as a GB. So he might want to use the "speaking in riddles" tactic again - and beings who dislike that as opposed to being intrigued could be a problem.

 

Even if he does, he will likely want to make an example of some Matoran to avoid opposition. A Matoran who disliked him before he came to power would be a good choice - avoid a potential revolutionary leader.

Oh... that. :lookaround: lol yeah I kinda walked right into that one lol :rolleyes:

 

And you may have a point, though I always saw Kazi's and Velika's relationship more like "friendly rivals" each just jibbing each other, almost competitively. But of course that could easily be wrong since Velika probably never was a real "friend" to those matoran, since he would consider himself above them, and them just as a means to an end. :shrugs:

 

Animation_Mangaia.png.e38a5644c8a08bfd4c488514025b5017.png

Formerly Iron_Man5

 

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