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Why did Takanuva summon the Matoran? (And other related questions)


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So, just a few confusion I've had for a while, regarding Takanuva's actions in MoL (maybe not the book, I haven't read it).

 

In the film, Takanuva goes to confront Teridax in his lair, and, since none but the Turaga knew about Metru Nui, his only motive would have been to stop Makuta from doing all the evil and destructive things he had been doing, with an extra stake of avenging Jaller's death, plus he probably would have assumed that beating Makuta was part of his destiny.

 

Now, maybe he was initially confident that he could beat Teridax, although it seems crazy he would want to take on a Makuta that the 6 Toa Mata could not collectively handle so soon after becoming a Toa. So, first question:

 

1. How much time did Takanuva/Takua wait before going to face Teridax? The film makes it seem like he went to Mangaia within like a day after becoming Takanuva, but this seems crazy to me considering that it took the Toa Metru so long to really master their new forms and powers. Sure, he would have had the Turaga and Nuva to train him up, but there's no evidence of this in the film. It'd be like going to face a game's final boss without completing the tutorial level!

 

Now, granted, he is a Toa of Light, and so his powers are very effective against Shadow, but I understand that Shadow is likewise very effective against Light? So if the Mata/Nuva's non-opposite powers made made the fight like a fist fight, where you can usually hit your opponent a good few times before they go down, wouldn't Takanuva and Teridax's 'opposite' powers make the fight into more of a knife fight, were one good blow can mean game over for either side? I get that Takanuva is basically an anti-Makuta weapon, but surely Makuta are also anti-Takanuva weapons. It would have just heightened the stakes. I get that Makuta in general would be pretty scared that you have a new player on the field = that can basically use a metaphorical knife against them, and someone like Teridax would be much for defensive as a result, but Takanuva's Light powers were still Toa-level, and a Makuta's Elemental Shadow powers always seemed to be on a higher tier than a Toa of Shadow would be. So:

 

2. Why would the Brotherhood of the Makuta be particularly scared of a single Toa of Light? Really, the Makuta should, in my mind, still win in a one vs. one like 3 times out of 4, so I don't see why Takanuva was so terrifying for them in general as just one guy. Can someone justify it for me in other terms?

 

Considering all of the above, and just general common sense considering a Makuta is a serious threat to anyone (let alone Takanuva):

 

3. Why the Karz did Takanuva think it was a good idea to summon ALL the Matoran into Maktua's Lair?! What if he had lost the fight? Makuta would have had the Matoran right there! Sure the Toa Nuva would have probably been fighting a battered Teridax and thus won, but it seems so irresponsible of Takanuva to risk things like that. Surely, if he was so keen to fight Makuta alone, but was still worried that he might lose, it would have more sense for him to have the Nuva on standby to finish Teridax off? Even if Teridax's plan required Takanuva to be alive for later, there was no way for Takanuva to know that.

 

It seems like it was just a lazy way to force the Matoran to return to Metru Nui, but since Takanuva wouldn't have known about Metru Nui, I cannot think of a single good reason to get Hahli to summon the Matoran.

Edited by NuvaTube
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Early teasers for Mask of Light mentioned that a central plot point was the mysterious crumbling of Mata Nui into the ocean. It seems like, at the beginning, LEGO was considering pulling the big reveal of Mata Nui's true nature in the film. In that case, Takanuva summoning the Matoran is a relic from a draft where all of the islanders would have had to be in the Mangaia in order to survive Mata Nui's emergence. That also explains why everyone keeps babbling on about awakening Mata Nui "today." Originally they actually were going to do that.

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believe victims. its actually not that hard, and youd look kind of bad if you were to, say, side with an abuser because theyre your friend

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1. Takua, having finally figured out his destiny, knew it was his duty to face makuta. The toa of light was prophesied as the only one who could defeat makuta. He didn't think to himself about power levels and elemental match ups, he simply realized what he had to do, and he went and did it. He was confident that destiny would be his guide. Plus, with the scene at Jallers shrine, it is possable that some time has passed, and he has done some training beforehand. Even if there wasn't much time, the toa could have given him advice on how to use his powers, which was something the metru didn't have, with lhikan having vanished.

 

2. Makuta knew he could most likely win, but he wasn't willing to run the risk of actually losing. Takanuva, being a novice (and a bit of an idiot at times), could have easily went too far and actually killed teridax without meaning to. By challanging him to kohlii, and his subsiquent faking of his death (though not quite in the way he expected, takutanuva was the only thing that didn't go to plan), he was able to ensure continuation of the plan without getting killed.

 

3. While this one can be partially tacked up to script alterations, part of this was simply summoning the toa nuva to back him up if things went sour. Also, with Takanuva beleiving that mata-nui would be awakened, he wanted to make sure everyone was present for the momentous event.

Makuta, Master of Shadows


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Replying as I read along -- I'm not really sure of the right answer to the title question, but some things to say anyways:

 

The film makes it seem like he went to Mangaia within like a day after becoming Takanuva, but this seems crazy to me considering that it took the Toa Metru so long to really master their new forms and powers.

It was stated that Artakha included a knowledge download into the Mask of Light that was accessible to the Toa that it would transform a Matoran into, which basically worked the same way as the organic masks of the Toa Inika -- in all seven of these cases, the time of inexperience (to an extent) that most new Toa go through was skipped.

 

Now, granted, he is a Toa of Light, and so his powers are very effective against Shadow, but I understand that Shadow is likewise very effective against Light?

But unlike Makuta, Takanuva is not a "being of light". He just controls it as a power. It's not part of his makeup. But antidermis seems to incorporate traits of shadow into it (at least so I have theorized, as you may recall from a recent chapter of my retelling). Takanuva is a taller version of a Matoran, a biomechanical being, who controls an element, and that element happens to be Light. But light actually causes something like an allergic reaction in Kraata/Rahkshi/Makuta, it was stated.

 

So, Makuta could, if he timed uses of his powers right, block attacks by Takanuva (with Shadow), but not harm him more than other beings (not with that particular power; of course, if he really wanted to, he could vaporize everybody, but did not choose to do so). Basically, you're operating on a false premise that they have equal effects on each other. As far as I know that's never been stated canonically and is strongly implied not to be the case.

 

Why the Karz did Takanuva think it was a good idea to summon ALL the Matoran into Maktua's Lair?! What if he had lost the fight? Makuta would have had the Matoran right there!

Really that's immaterial. Makuta could, if he really wanted to, just teleport each Matoran one by one to his lair, Kraata-infect their masks, and teleport them into the wild somewhere until he got everybody infected. Having them all physically standing there doesn't really make it much easier. If anything it might make it harder as some of the ones not infected yet could help try to take the masks away from the others... which would only be a small delay anyways, as once they were all comatose he could put the masks back on one by one lol... etc. I think it was more about summoning the other Toa, and having some witnesses.

 

I say "some" because I'm unsure if it really was all the Matoran.

 

I'm not sure if the "wanting witnesses" thing is strong enough to actually ask any of them to make the trek, but the idea that there's any serious problem with doing so doesn't work. By then they had plenty of evidence to his teleportation abilities and that if he really wanted to he could win in just hours with little effort. Takanuva was probably banking on the idea that Makuta had some vague reason to not do such a thing, whether they were already there or not. I think it was more like it didn't so much matter if they were there or not, and he decided might as well have them, and it would be more dramatic that way. I think basically he wanted the Matoran to see the Makuta actually defeated this time with their own eyes.

Edited by bonesiii
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People should remember that there are a lot of things in the canon that make less and less sense the more they're analyzed. This is one of them.
 
Truthfully, it was just a convenient plot device so the Matoran could return to Metru Nui at the end of MoL. Otherwise Takanuva would have to go back up to the surface, and - if I remember MoL correctly - if Takutanuva's presence was required to open the gigantic gate thing, having Jaller there to help revive Takanuva comes down to a matter of plot convenience.

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People should remember that there are a lot of things in the canon that make less and less sense the more they're analyzed. This is one of them.

Unless analyzing it more will help it make even more sense. :P Depends on if the analysis is missing something that we all intuitively got, but not consciously got, the first time. :shrugs: Or something.

 

Truthfully, it was just a convenient plot device so the Matoran could return to Metru Nui at the end of MoL. Otherwise Takanuva would have to go back up to the surface, and - if I remember MoL correctly - if Takutanuva's presence was required to open the gigantic gate thing, having Jaller there to help revive Takanuva comes down to a matter of plot convenience.

It's not clear from your wording if you realize this, and just so nobody misunderstands if you do -- the Matoran went back up to the surface after MOL. Calling them down to see the end of the battle did not help for that at all, at least not in terms of travel time (although that way there were more people who might know the way, I guess... depending on how confusing it is down there, which is probably "very"). Takanuva did go back up with them all (and they built boats and heard tales). Not sure if you meant something else though.

 

And Takutanuva wasn't necessarily required unless there was some kind of strange power-nulling effect there, as Pohatu should be able to use his Stone power to shatter it. But that really isn't relevant to the Matoran coming down. Takutanuva was about defeating Makuta basically. And Jaller could have been revived and thus present without the other Matoran coming, so not sure why you bring that up -- but it was Vakama who apparently figured out what that revival machine does, and picked up the Avohkii, so the basic point probably works, as Jaller and Hahli might not have thought of it.

 

 

I was going to add to my other post but forgot -- it also might have been so Hahli had something to do, since otherwise she'd just stand around watching the battle. Possibly Takanuva was also concerned that Makuta might kill one Matoran bystander but not dare if there were more witnesses. He might have thought the battle would be over before they got back too. :shrugs:

 

I have a feeling re-watching the context of the line where he orders her to get them may make the answer obvious; I'm just going from memory.

Edited by bonesiii
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I generally chalked it up to the fact that Takua was a Matoran a few hours ago, and had all the Matoran summoned to the "top of the hill" to wait for him to come back. He sent Hahli up there to tell them to come down to watch the battle because he figured it was going to take awhile. 

 

Also Takanuva summons the Matoran before the battle even starts. He brought them to the "nearest safe location" - that being Kini-Nui. He brings them down to this area because it's the nearest safe location now; he's scouted the area and hasn't seen anything dangerous. 

 

The other thing that I think plays in here was the context; Takua had seen hundreds of Matoran take out the Rahi before in MNOG before the whole Makuta defeat. I think he honestly thought they could help - after all, the only thing he had seen Makuta as was his form in MNOG. The second thing would be that he would have had to explain the MNOG defeat over a few times and wanted to save on the retelling time. :P "They might not see me win today" he said "but the Matoran will go on, and someday they will triumph!" I honestly think he wanted to give them something to rally around. He was just a Matoran like them not too long ago, and so there was an empathy thing going on.

 

The other other thing is, if you've put your trust in something to solve a problem, you want to know as much about the "status" of that as possible. Takanuva wanted them to see the end, because they all wanted to know how it ended, what was going on, etc. It would be easier if they were there to see it rather than having Hahli run up and down the stairs.   

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Well, he actually didn't summon all the Matoran. The only people that went down there were the Toa Nuva, Turaga, and Hahli.

I just re-watched the end of the movie, and this seems to be correct. We only see the Toa Nuva and the Turaga in these scenes. Hahli and later Jaller are the only Matoran present. This is very clear when they enter the chamber where Jaller is revived, as the camera is placed in a location where we can see the entire set. No Matoran. This may have been to save on the animation budget, but I doubt there would have been time to gather all the Matoran on the island at Kini-Nui in such a small amount of time anyways. They were not present for the earlier fight with the Rahkshi, and judging by how the light changes it has just become morning when Takanuva goes down the entrance to Mangaia.

 

He summoned the others because he was convinced his destiny was to defeat Makuta - or die trying - that day. Maybe he was certain of his victory, or maybe he just wanted backup. I don't know. As Chronicler he might simply have seen the importance of keeping an accurate record of the events that were about to transpire.

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It might be from the book version (or a Greg quote?). FTR, BS01 mentions it on the Takanuva page:

 

It was then that Hahli emerged from the wreckage of the Ussanui and volunteered to be the Chronicler now that Takua was a Toa. Takanuva accepted, sending her up to the surface to summon the Matoran. There, Takanuva fought Teridax, who challenged Takanuva to a game of Kolhii. Light and Shadow clashed, until Hahli returned with the Matoran, Toa Nuva and the Turaga.

 

It doesn't say "all", but this is still different from the movie version, as there Hahli summons no Matoran whatsoever. So, unless this is just a baseless rumor that slipped into BS01, it is probably based on the book or some other source. Oh, could look at the BS01 page for the book... Hmm... there's this:

 

However Hahli, who had stowed away on the Ussanui, brings the Matoran into the earth. Takanuva, however, proves more skillful at the "game", and strikes Teridax, blasting the Makuta back. Teridax rises from the rubble, and during a brief scuffle, Takanuva forcefully switches masks with Teridax, sending them toppling into a pool of Energized Protodermis. Out of the pool rises Takutanuva, Teridax and Takanuva joined, a being who recognizes that Mata Nui must be awakened and heaves up the hill-sized door in the side of Mangaia. The Matoran pass beneath

 

Then again, I see a similar statement on the movie page too. What is the actual quote for the "summons" itself?

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I'll just add to the discussion that, while the Turaga + Toa Nuva + Hahli might be the only visible characters who come down to Mangaia, the murmuring voices that accompany them imply a greater number of Matoran than are pictured. From the sound, one might conclude that a sizeable crowd was summoned, even if the visuals don't back it up.

"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
-- Harlan Ellison

 

 

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Early teasers for Mask of Light mentioned that a central plot point was the mysterious crumbling of Mata Nui into the ocean. It seems like, at the beginning, LEGO was considering pulling the big reveal of Mata Nui's true nature in the film. In that case, Takanuva summoning the Matoran is a relic from a draft where all of the islanders would have had to be in the Mangaia in order to survive Mata Nui's emergence. That also explains why everyone keeps babbling on about awakening Mata Nui "today." Originally they actually were going to do that.

 

The Mask of Light just fell a lot lower than it already was in my ranking of the best Bionicle movies. 

Yay! Fonts!!

 

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