powerjala Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 There's been something that's been bugging me about the cannon of BIONICLE in the 2001-2003 era in the ending to BIONICLE: Chronicles #1 Tale of the Toa. In Cathey Hapka's version of the ending, when the Toa have their shadow doplegangers, they switch opponents and work together to defeat them. In Greg Farshtey's ending, the Toa absorb the shadow Toa into their bodies. Wait WHAT?!Okay honestly I liked the Hapka version better than Greg's confusing and kinda creepy version. I just think Hapka's version just seems more true to the story. What's your thoughts and what do you think is more cannon? Quote A novice user on BZPower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25K Now! Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I'd probably say it was a mix of both. The doppelgangers were defeated through the usage of teamwork (switching opponents and all that jazz), and the inner darkness was reabsorbed. 1 Quote http://vimeo.com/198967785 BZPRPG Profiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNR7 Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I always felt Hapka's ending resonated better with the overall theme of the book. The Toa started off seperate and untrusting of one another, and throughout the story they realized no man is an island (except for Mata Nui, I guess) and made the transistion from six lone wolves to a cohesive team and mastering their respective powersets, proving they had the right stuff to save the day. Greg's version has them coming to terms with their dark side, but I never felt they really had any true inner darkness to address in the first place and it didn't thematically fit. 3 Quote "Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire" - Gustav Mahler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adventurer Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Greg's ending fit a more recurring theme among Toa throughout the story - I'm guessing the inner struggle thing might be a favourite of his - and I actually prefer it overall, it's a more interesting concept to explore I feel. But that being said Cathy's ending did have a nice feel to it and worked better in the context of the story created throughout the rest of the book. I wouldn't say either is definitively better than the other - I think Greg's is more interesting, but having read Cathy's version first that one feels more "right" to me I guess? 1 Quote Credit to Pohuaki for the awesome banner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kohran Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 (edited) Greg's version seems to set up for a twist or consequence that obviously never happened. Given that the Shadow Toa's appearance was a complete one-off, I think Hapka's simple version is more appropriate. no man is an island (except for Mata Nui, I guess) Technically he's a man under an island. Edited September 21, 2014 by Sir Kohran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toa of Gallifrey Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Hapka's fit better for the book but Farshtey's fit better for the later story, with some Toa going rogue or discovering their inner darkness. I personally prefer Farshtey's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chro Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Greg's version seems to set up for a twist or consequence that obviously never happened. Given that the Shadow Toa's appearance was a complete one-off, I think Hapka's simple version is more appropriate. no man is an island (except for Mata Nui, I guess) Technically he's a man under an island. Technically he's a giant robot under and containing several islands. Quote save not only their lives but their spirits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pahrak Model ZX Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Ah, the Shadow Toa are such a great concept...that were never properly explained... While some of what went on in Hapka's version of the fight was weird (army of Mini Shadow Kopakas???), I agree with previous opinions saying it felt like a better fit for the theme of Unity. I do like the idea of the Toa accepting their inner darkness, but it seems really out of place when the entire rest of the line portrays Shadow/darkness as pure evil, plus it doesn't feel like this acceptance really solves anything for the Toa. Well, other than getting through to Makuta's lair, of course. There's also the point of which is easier for children to understand, and I'm sure many of us are partial to Hapka's method because we actually got to see it rather than just being told about it in the past tense. Either way, they disappear forever and are virtually never referred to ever again, yaaaaay. 1 Quote My Library Right of Law (Epics) KARDAS DRAGON appears! (G&T) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toa Smoke Monster Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I like both versions, but in my headcanon I consider Hapka's version canon over Greg's. It shows the Toa working as a team to defeat their enemies, which is a lesson they needed for their future battles. And it always felt more like a realistic end to the battle than Greg's. (As 'realistic' as a battle in Bionicle can be, anyway. ) 1 Quote Everyone is one choice away from being the bad guy in another person's story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishers64 Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I prefer Hapka's ending, as Greg's was more confusing to me. 2 Quote Hero Factory RPG | Bionicle Mafia XXIX: Storyline & Theories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manterax Prime Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 No opinion as I don't own the Farshtey version. Quote Tired of broken BIONICLE sets? Support the Remolded Sockets Service Pack project by Kon1 on CUUSOO http://lego.cuusoo.com/ideas/view/17500Want more female characters to stand with you BIONICLE or HF collection? Support Bunyip's Constraction Line for Girls project on CUUSOO http://lego.cuusoo.com/ideas/view/6801 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerjala Posted September 22, 2014 Author Share Posted September 22, 2014 Well there wasn't a Farshtey version of the book but he had another version of the ending. Quote A novice user on BZPower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hip Historian Iaredios Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 I like to think it more like a symbolic absorption of their darker selves, bringing to light to what they could become: servants of The Enemy. In reality, I think Hapka's version suits what actually took place. Quote A RUDE AWAKENING - A Spherus Magna redo | Tzais-Kuluu | Pushing Back The Tide | Last Words | Black Coronation | Blue Man Bound | Visions of Thasos ن We are all but grey specks in a dark complex before a single white light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pohatu: Uniter of Stone Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 (edited) I saw "Hapka vs. Farshtey" and expected a story about the two fighting Mortal-Kombat style.I prefer Hapka's ending, though. Edited September 22, 2014 by RahkshiToa88 Quote I HATE SCORPIOS ~Pohatu Master of Stone, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidhiki of the Shadows Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 (edited) Yeah I always liked Capka's ending. Greg's doesn't sound bad but it just doesn't sound necessary. Why would the Toa need to absorb their dark selves? Like many people have said, there have been Toa with darksides but that doesn't relate to the Toa Mata. And the whole unity theme seemed better in Capka's version. -NotS Edited September 22, 2014 by Nidhiki of the Shadows 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JrMasterModelBuilder Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 (edited) They can't properly be compared in execution because Greg never wrote out the event in great detail, but in concept, I like Greg's account better. I sort-of imaging they were the dark side of the Toa's personalities, manifested by Makuta, possibly by the power of the Mask of Shadows. In all honesty, I'm not sure why they were even in the book. It's the only time they ever really appeared and the events were different from what we saw in MNOG. When I read it it just added to my confusion of what really happened. I'm guessing they played a bigger part in the official story bible than we ever saw. Perhaps they appeared more in the canceled 2001 game. Edited September 22, 2014 by JrMasterModelBuilder 1 Quote Are signatures still a thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidhiki of the Shadows Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 They can't properly be compared in execution because Greg never wrote out the event in great detail, but in concept, I like Greg's account better. I sort-of imaging they were the dark side of the Toa's personalities, manifested by Makuta, possibly by the power of the Mask of Shadows. In all honesty, I'm not sure why they were even in the book. It's the only time they ever really appeared and the events were different from what we saw in MNOG, and when I read it it just added to my confusion of what really happened. I'm guessing they played a bigger part in the official story bible than we ever saw. Perhaps they appeared more in the canceled 2001 game.Well, the book also had a different explanation to how they beat the Manas, so that's what confused me the most xD -NotS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumiki Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Hapka because it was more innovative and also because Greg had a little too much authority over the story sometimes. 2 Quote avatar by Lady Kopaka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toatapio Nuva Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 I prefer Hapka's portrayal but honestly she should've just skipped the shadow Toa and given us the fight with Makuta. Quote My BZPRPG profiles - Viima, Lai Lai Kirgan, Jarkale, Hile, Tuli + Kavala, Khervos, Thira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toa TAK Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 I prefer Hapka's portrayal but honestly she should've just skipped the shadow Toa and given us the fight with Makuta.That's kinda my line of thought as well. For me, the events of MNOG are how I remember the Toa finishing their mission in 2001. Canon or not, it left a much bigger impression than either Hapka or Farshtey TAK 1 Quote [MNOLG The Movie Website]Need to start a poll? Or start a topic in Games & Trivia? PM me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pomegranate Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 This is... this is the first time I'm hearing of "Greg's ending". When did this happen? Was it in MNOG or something? I've been walking around for the last 12 years thinking the Toa teaming up to fight eachother's shadow doubles is how that went down Based on what I'm reading in this thread, I think I like Hapka's ending more, but the Toa absorbing the Shadow Toa back into them is a really neat way to end the conflict (it's not like the first thing you'd try to defeat your opponent is like absorb them, right?) and does explain them since if they absorbed them, it implies they were ripped out of them to begin with. I feel like I'd have to read/watch Greg's version to make up my mind for sure. Quote . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emily Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 This is... this is the first time I'm hearing of "Greg's ending". When did this happen? Was it in MNOG or something? I've been walking around for the last 12 years thinking the Toa teaming up to fight eachother's shadow doubles is how that went down In the BIONICLE Encyclopedia from 2006, the entries mentioning the Shadow Toa stated that the Toa defeated them by absorbing them into themselves. IIRC someone asked Greg why that was, since it contradicted Tale of the Toa, and he more or less said "I didn't like Hapka's version, so I changed it." Quote believe victims. its actually not that hard, and youd look kind of bad if you were to, say, side with an abuser because theyre your friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25K Now! Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Hapka's really made a bit more sense than Greg's, in my opinion. Quote http://vimeo.com/198967785 BZPRPG Profiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kohran Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I prefer Hapka's portrayal but honestly she should've just skipped the shadow Toa and given us the fight with Makuta.That's kinda my line of thought as well. For me, the events of MNOG are how I remember the Toa finishing their mission in 2001. Canon or not, it left a much bigger impression than either Hapka or Farshtey TAK Hapka was consistent with Greg's comics, but she seems to have been completely unaware of anything in the MNOLG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manterax Prime Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 This is... this is the first time I'm hearing of "Greg's ending". When did this happen? Was it in MNOG or something? I've been walking around for the last 12 years thinking the Toa teaming up to fight eachother's shadow doubles is how that went down In the BIONICLE Encyclopedia from 2006, the entries mentioning the Shadow Toa stated that the Toa defeated them by absorbing them into themselves. IIRC someone asked Greg why that was, since it contradicted Tale of the Toa, and he more or less said "I didn't like Hapka's version, so I changed it."As he's probably done with several other established elements of the canon. And people wanted him on the new story team? No thank you.Hey, Greg, your stuff isn't canon if it contradicts something EVERYONE knows. 1 Quote Tired of broken BIONICLE sets? Support the Remolded Sockets Service Pack project by Kon1 on CUUSOO http://lego.cuusoo.com/ideas/view/17500Want more female characters to stand with you BIONICLE or HF collection? Support Bunyip's Constraction Line for Girls project on CUUSOO http://lego.cuusoo.com/ideas/view/6801 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kohran Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) This is... this is the first time I'm hearing of "Greg's ending". When did this happen? Was it in MNOG or something? I've been walking around for the last 12 years thinking the Toa teaming up to fight eachother's shadow doubles is how that went down In the BIONICLE Encyclopedia from 2006, the entries mentioning the Shadow Toa stated that the Toa defeated them by absorbing them into themselves. IIRC someone asked Greg why that was, since it contradicted Tale of the Toa, and he more or less said "I didn't like Hapka's version, so I changed it."As he's probably done with several other established elements of the canon. And people wanted him on the new story team? No thank you.Hey, Greg, your stuff isn't canon if it contradicts something EVERYONE knows. I see what you mean and agree to a certain extent; even if Greg didn't like it he probably should've just left it as it was to avoid creating confusion. But let's not make this more important than it is - it's one brief scene that didn't even feature in the year it was meant to happen in. I don't think Greg altering its ending is that big a deal. Not to mention that Hapka herself contradicted both the MNOLG and the Legend of Lewa comic. Edited September 24, 2014 by Sir Kohran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Lothbrok Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 I personally prefer Hapka's ending. Farshtey's ending was strange considering our Toa were meant to be battling the Shadows... Quote Twitter: @enkindle_this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toa Chuck Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) Honestly, the whole shadow toa thing made no sense to me. Thing is, there are two possibilities. If they were created by makuta, then of course the toa fight them like in the book. But if they were the toa's dark sides seperated from them, then wouldn't it make sense for the toa NOT to reabsorb them? Wouldn't makuta just be doing them a favor by seperating all the bad traints and by extention giving them light powers as shown in 2008? Then the battle goes just like in the book. As such, in my headcannon, the shadow toa are skipped, and we go right to the fight with makuta. Edited September 24, 2014 by Chuck the Toa of crazyness Quote Makuta, Master of Shadows Chuck's Very Dead Comic Series This is my signature. Exciting, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyru Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Hapka for life Quote BRPG Forum Rules • BZPRPG Starter Topic • Q&A Compendium • SK:A Profiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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