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This is interesting. Some of these seem to resemble letters, and it seems like there would easily be enough unique symbol possibilities to make a complete alphabet. So while its certainly not a language now, there is at least a slight possibility that it could develop into one, and that this is either a sneak peak or a preview. I hope that's the case, because I'd really like to see another written language for Bionicle.

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Whether I'd like to see a Matoran-style language on Okoto? Definitely! I also think it's very possible we're getting a new alphabet in 2015, since we got one in 2001 as well and it looks like TLG is really trying to bring that 2001 feel back. However, the thing about there being a sequence in there that is repeated and rotated 180 degrees kinda makes me think that this stuff is either not an actual alphabet, or filler in an alphabet we have yet to see. Although it's not unheard of for alphabets to do this (the Greek alphabet was originally in 'Boustrophedon', which means: first line written from left to right, second line written from right to left upside down, third line again from left to right, fourth line right to left upside down etc. etc. as if you're plowing a field) I don't think TLG is going to make an alphabet like that unnecessarily complex.

 

I wonder though why you distinguish between the two vertical stripes and the single vertical stripe? It seems to me the two vertical stripes could easily be two instances of the single stripe.

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I'm not sure but I think the symbols from the promo materials may just be arranged arbitrarily. However, I agree in that the mask pedestals or newer promotional images may have actual messages. After all I don't think they would miss on making a new alphabet, because that was one of the biggest features of the old Bionicle storyline.

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I wonder though why you distinguish between the two vertical stripes and the single vertical stripe? It seems to me the two vertical stripes could easily be two instances of the single stripe.

 

Yeah, that's a good point. I suppose I was thinking that the spacing between the two vertical lines is a little less than the spacing between the symbols themselves, but it's hard to tell.

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It's really starting to not feel like what Bionicle was. No original matoran alphabet, the masters aren't even referred to as Toa, and why doesn't Arthaka have the mask of creation? I know it's probably a reboot, but I feel like we've lost so much.

Couldn't they've at least kept the same alphabet? Called the mask creator guy Arthaka? Toa instead of master?

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Yeah, that's a good point. I suppose I was thinking that the spacing between the two vertical lines is a little less than the spacing between the symbols themselves, but it's hard to tell.

Sometimes it is, but sometimes it isn't. The spacing seems pretty variable actually. Take a look at the picture in the lower left corner, this one has two lines. The first of the double strokes on the top line is actually really close to the big yellow thing, the spacing between the first stroke and the big yellow thing is less than the spacing between the two strokes themselves.

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It's really starting to not feel like what Bionicle was. No original matoran alphabet, the masters aren't even referred to as Toa, and why doesn't Arthaka have the mask of creation? I know it's probably a reboot, but I feel like we've lost so much.

Couldn't they've at least kept the same alphabet? Called the mask creator guy Arthaka? Toa instead of master?

They do call the "Masters" Toa on Bionicle.com. They're simplifying it for the kiddies for marketing purposes. They're still Toa. 

 

We don't know what the alphabet on Okoto will take. This could just be a cool design.

 

And Artahka is a character from 2001-2010 that has backstory behind him that will confuse the kids when they google. Plus fans would want an explanation of how Artahka ended up on Okoto, what his backstory was in this universe, etc. 

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And Artahka is a character from 2001-2010 that has backstory behind him that will confuse the kids when they google. Plus fans would want an explanation of how Artahka ended up on Okoto, what his backstory was in this universe, etc.

That actually applies to the Toa Mata and the Makuta as well. I think the question should be: do we really need every character to be based on a character from the first generation?

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I think if we do see a "language" on Okoto that actually has meaning, it will be different than this language here. Part of what made Matoran enjoyable instead of mind-numbingly frustrating was the fact that it was a simple cipher that clearly paralleled the letters we use every day. Learning it was a challenge for sure, but it was a challenge that seven-year-old kids could tackle, not one that felt like tedious work.

 

Also, the places this language has been seen so far lead me to believe it's meant to seem very ancient and mysterious. If it were the same language the villagers used on a day-to-day basis, as the Matoran language was to the inhabitants of the Matoran Universe, then it wouldn't have any of that kind of mysteriousness in-universe — it'd just be ordinary writing to them.

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And Artahka is a character from 2001-2010 that has backstory behind him that will confuse the kids when they google. Plus fans would want an explanation of how Artahka ended up on Okoto, what his backstory was in this universe, etc.

That actually applies to the Toa Mata and the Makuta as well. I think the question should be: do we really need every character to be based on a character from the first generation?

 

The thing is though: Makuta and the Toa Mata are iconic characters from 2001 that could be introduced without a backstory component to them, seeing as they were introduced without backstory back in 2001 to begin with. Artahka was a character that was introduced and fleshed out later (2003?), and was connected to the wider universe pretty strongly, in a way that didn't define him as a mask maker necessarily. It's the same reason why they didn't bring back Mata Nui either. 

 

Basically I see them wanting the idea of Artahka more involved in this story without the baggage of Artahka's complex nature. They took elements of Mata Nui, Artahka, and Vakama and threw them into Ekimu. Take any of those elements away, and this story concept begins to suffer.

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I think if we do see a "language" on Okoto that actually has meaning, it will be different than this language here. Part of what made Matoran enjoyable instead of mind-numbingly frustrating was the fact that it was a simple cipher that clearly paralleled the letters we use every day. Learning it was a challenge for sure, but it was a challenge that seven-year-old kids could tackle, not one that felt like tedious work.

Yeah, but what makes you think this isn't a cipher? We have no idea what these symbols are supposed to mean, if they're part of an actual script they could easily be a cipher (and as you explained that's the most likely possibility), otherwise they could be simple decorations.

 

Edit: OK I realize you might have been referring to Liopleurodon's comparison with Mayan glyphs (which are pretty complex). But the thing is: even if they're supposed to look like Mayan glyphs, they don't actually have to be as complex as them. It could easily be a simple cipher designed to look a little Mayan.

 

Also, the places this language has been seen so far lead me to believe it's meant to seem very ancient and mysterious. If it were the same language the villagers used on a day-to-day basis, as the Matoran language was to the inhabitants of the Matoran Universe, then it wouldn't have any of that kind of mysteriousness in-universe — it'd just be ordinary writing to them.

It's very well possible it's supposed to be an ancient script, although the fact that it was on the Mask of Creation and on some buildings doesn't rule out the possibility that it is a current script. But if it is an ancient script, it's still very well possible that we'll get to see a cipher for it.

 

The thing is though: Makuta and the Toa Mata are iconic characters from 2001 that could be introduced without a backstory component to them, seeing as they were introduced without backstory back in 2001 to begin with. Artahka was a character that was introduced and fleshed out later (2003?), and was connected to the wider universe pretty strongly, in a way that didn't define him as a mask maker necessarily. It's the same reason why they didn't bring back Mata Nui either.

IMO that means it applies all the more to the Mata and the Makuta. Say a new fan who doesn't realize the difference between the first and second generation were to google Artakha: he would stumble upon a reasonably sized BS01 article and some other stuff on other wikis, BZP etc. That would indeed be confusing, but at least there's not that much info. However, if the same new fan were to google Tahu right now he would stumble upon a massive BS01 entry and a lot more stuff on the internet, making it all the more likely that he wouldn't just be confused but also overwhelmed by the info. On top of that, this doesn't just apply to new fans googling the names: people who were only partially interested in BIONICLE during its first run are likely to have some memory of the Mata and the Makuta, they don't need google or BS01 to confuse them as to what's happening now.

 

Basically I see them wanting the idea of Artahka more involved in this story without the baggage of Artahka's complex nature. They took elements of Mata Nui, Artahka, and Vakama and threw them into Ekimu. Take any of those elements away, and this story concept begins to suffer.

Yeah I think the part about mixing Mata Nui, Artakha and Vakama is a good point. That's probably a large part of the reason why they specifically chose to turn him into a new character, but also: why wouldn't they? 2015 is already really similar to 2001.

Edited by Thormen
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However, if the same new fan were to google Tahu right now he would stumble upon a massive BS01 entry and a lot more stuff on the internet, making it all the more likely that he wouldn't just be confused but also overwhelmed by the info.

 

 

I think young children googling bionicle character names have a bit more to worry about finding than a slight generation gap. :v

 

(on-topic tho, i really like the shapes and simplicity and variety these glyphs have!)

Edited by Rahkshi Lalonde

bnnrimg1.pngbnnrimg2.pngbnnrimg3.pngbnnrimg4.pngbnnrimg5.pngbnnrimg8.png

 

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I think if we do see a "language" on Okoto that actually has meaning, it will be different than this language here. Part of what made Matoran enjoyable instead of mind-numbingly frustrating was the fact that it was a simple cipher that clearly paralleled the letters we use every day. Learning it was a challenge for sure, but it was a challenge that seven-year-old kids could tackle, not one that felt like tedious work.

Yeah, but what makes you think this isn't a cipher? We have no idea what these symbols are supposed to mean, if they're part of an actual script they could easily be a cipher (and as you explained that's the most likely possibility), otherwise they could be simple decorations.

 

Edit: OK I realize you might have been referring to Liopleurodon's comparison with Mayan glyphs (which are pretty complex). But the thing is: even if they're supposed to look like Mayan glyphs, they don't actually have to be as complex as them. It could easily be a simple cipher designed to look a little Mayan.

 

No, I wasn't referring to that. It totally COULD be a cipher. But if it is, it's not an OBVIOUS cipher. With the Matoran language, the letters clearly looked something like the real-world letters they were supposed to represent, albeit sometimes a bit abstract. The A had a hole in the bottom, the B had a gap in the top and a gap in the bottom, the C had a gap in the right side, the D had a straight line with a gap to its right, the O was an open circle, etc. With this one, some of them could definitely be regular letters like we use, but not ones that actually spell anything pronounceable in any of the images we've seen.

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I think young children googling bionicle character names have a bit more to worry about finding than a slight generation gap. :v

How so?

 

No, I wasn't referring to that. It totally COULD be a cipher. But if it is, it's not an OBVIOUS cipher. With the Matoran language, the letters clearly looked something like the real-world letters they were supposed to represent, albeit sometimes a bit abstract. The A had a hole in the bottom, the B had a gap in the top and a gap in the bottom, the C had a gap in the right side, the D had a straight line with a gap to its right, the O was an open circle, etc. With this one, some of them could definitely be regular letters like we use, but not ones that actually spell anything pronounceable in any of the images we've seen.

Ah OK, so that's what you meant by 'paralleled'. I think we've seen too little of these markings to say they really aren't a somewhat obvious cipher like the Matoran alphabet. It's true that only some of these markings look similar to letters in the Roman alphabet, but I have to say I didn't find the Matoran alphabet very obvious at the start either. Especially the A and the C you mentioned, and I didn't manage to guess its meaning with as little information as we have here: I remember standing in front of the signpost in Po-Wahi in MNOLG and thinking: OK, I want to go to Po-Koro, that has three O's in it. The left one looks like it has three O's in it, but I have absolutely no idea what the right one is supposed to say. It took playing MNOLG for me to find out what the letters actually meant.

 

I guess we're just going to have to wait and see. It seems anything is possible at this point. :shrugs:

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If that is what it is, then I like the new written language (I just wish the Agori got one, but that's now never going to happen :P). Stuff belonging to a pre-colonial period is always cool to look at, not to mention it doesn't as obviosly English-inspired as the previous standard (not to say I didn't like it, far from it, just cool to see something different that I like).

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Seems pretty Aztec-themed.

Not that I have a problem, they could take any kind of culture from greek, norse, arab, african, and even innuit.

 

BUT NOT ANYTHING CHINESE/JAPANESE/KOREAN. Nononononononononononononononono. Nein. Nu. Non.

I'm trying to figure out a justification for your fervent opposition to Asian influences that would make your post sound less racist, but it's difficult. Did you know that some of the Matoran from the MNOLG 2 had names derived from Japanese (alongside scores of other languages?) Have you considered that Japanese culture generally has more in common with the Polynesian cultures that inspired Bionicle in the first place than most European cultures do?

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Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

Aanchir's and Meiko's brother

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Maybe he's just feeling a bit of overload after Avatar:TLA and Korra showed that anime is influencing Western works.

:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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Maybe he's just feeling a bit of overload after Avatar:TLA and Korra showed that anime is influencing Western works.

Is this related to something that happened elsewhere on BZP or offsite? Because honestly I am so confused right now. Why would two amazing series based on Eastern culture being inspired by animated works native to said culture bother someone unless they had an issue with anime in the first place?

 

I'd think more people would take issue with anime influences in a show based on a Western franchise, like Teen Titans. But that's ALSO one of the more highly-regarded cartoons of the modern era... so I still don't see what the problem could be besides plain prejudice.

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Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

Aanchir's and Meiko's brother

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Very nice work, Takua. Out of curiosity, why do you think the blue line is a symbol separate from the purple one? I don't see an instance in those screengrabs where one is seen without the other. I would also take those slightly different symbols in the lower right screenshot and make them separate from the similar ones, just to err on the safe side until some more screenshots of these things pop up.

 

Anyway, it's cool that you did this. I'm assuming that at some point these symbols will have meaning to us, probably in cipher form, or maybe in some 'ancient language' storyline context. Probably too early to say which one.

Edited by Vorahk1Panrahk2
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Seems pretty Aztec-themed.

Not that I have a problem, they could take any kind of culture from greek, norse, arab, african, and even innuit.

 

BUT NOT ANYTHING CHINESE/JAPANESE/KOREAN. Nononononononononononononononono. Nein. Nu. Non.

I'm trying to figure out a justification for your fervent opposition to Asian influences that would make your post sound less racist, but it's difficult. Did you know that some of the Matoran from the MNOLG 2 had names derived from Japanese (alongside scores of other languages?) Have you considered that Japanese culture generally has more in common with the Polynesian cultures that inspired Bionicle in the first place than most European cultures do?

 

 

Because Oriental culture, all in all, isn't as intresting when compared to european ones.(Katanas are bloody twigs and belief in reincarnation -after some internet browsing- is so cheesy I can't even take it serious anymore. Other beliefs are okay though, but I still could barely read the holy book/verses of the Tao religion.)

But people still use it like 100000 times because it's so "exotic" and "intresting" and "alien", that even if it would it's not anymore.

 

Also, I don't have anything against japanese names, as long as they don't use those arched roofs I won't puke.(Actually, I think the scenery is the thing I dislike most about oriental culture, otherwise it doesn't seem bad. Ugly architecture, unsightly vegetation etc.)

Oh, yes, Japanese culture was about honor(and other respectable things) but is now about social degeneracy and other unclean things.(If you knew about your no.1 enemy site more you'd think the same as me.)

 

 

Also, it's not racism, it would classify as xenphobia.

 

Race is a biological construct.

Culture is a social construct.

 

 

My stance is, that bionicles should LIVE IN HUTS AND NOT JAPANESE HOUSES.

Edited by TheCleanser
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you dislike japanese culture because of their... vegetation?

 

that's not even part of there culture, y'know. the vegetation was there before the japanese were. :0

 

(i'm not mentioning the more problematic points of your post because they speak for themselves, honestly.)

Edited by Rahkshi Lalonde
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bnnrimg1.pngbnnrimg2.pngbnnrimg3.pngbnnrimg4.pngbnnrimg5.pngbnnrimg8.png

 

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Also, it's not racism, it would classify as xenphobia.

Don't make your trolling this obvious next time, 'kay? :)

 

 

I know you people must be "special snowflakes" and colour their texts in the most annoying ways possible, but would you be kind enough not to desacrate my text?

 

Also, Xenophoba is fear of strangers. Racism is hate of people of different races.

 

A german could hate romanians and be xenophobic, but not racist.

 

 

That's darn comic sans. You have no right to question my dislike of your choice of text in this case.

you dislike japanese culture because of their... vegetation?

 

that's not even part of there culture, y'know. the vegetation was there before the japanese were. :0

 

(i'm not mentioning the more problematic points of your post because they speak for themselves, honestly.)

 

I'm saying that if someone makes a fictional universe based on japanese stuff they will inevitably use that vegetaion.

Why are there always oaks and bears in european fantasy?

 

And vegetation isn't the main problem, it's the aestethics, and THE MODERN CULTURE.

 

"speak for themselves."

My xenophobia? I don't really hate strangers, I dislike their culture.(As in Japanese culture, who encourages degeneracy nowadays, and I'd put American on the list, but the USA has no culture. It's like saying what kind of non-metal lithium would be. China is pretty okay now, actually, and so is south korea?)

 

 

I stand my ground. BIONICLE/BIONICLAE/BIONICLEI/BIONICLES SHOULD LIVE IN HUTS, NOT JAPANESE PAPER HOUSES.

Edited by TheCleanser
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wow that's...

 

i don't mean to insult but your speech pattern is kinda garbled at times. it's almost like you're talking kinda fast. o:

 

i'm also questioning why you show disdain for east asia so much. hmm. :0

 

It's almost as if something unaestetichaly pleasing cannot be liked.

 

Though I really like mongols/huns. Their culture, while not really revolutionary by any means, was still aestetichally pleasing. Also, religious freedom.

(I do tend to speak quickly in real life too.)

 

On the same topic, a mongol-themed island would be pretty cool. Different cultures for different islands?

 

Aztec/Meso-american-Okoto

Mongol?

Russian?

North american?

Japanope!

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OK, I think we need to get off the subject of Mr/Mrs Cleanser's dislike of a workaholic and charming people and get back to the 'language'.

 

Personally, I think it looks less like a language and more like 'Awesome Cool Glyph-like Drawings'. Not so much writing as something they came up with that would look like writing without any meaning.

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:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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Oh, I agree with that. They look cool. A substitution cipher again might be interesting, but only if they have a OOLG (Okoto OnLine Game), where they need a lot of writing. The animated shorts could get away without fleshing out any writing at all.

:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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TheCleanser, your behavior in this thread has merited a Proto drop and a suspension. If you continue to act racist, xenophobic, or however you will call it, there will be further consequences. "BZPower does not condone intolerance. If a member treats another member with disdain or contempt because of race, religious preference, gender, sexual orientation, national origin, or a similar quality or belief, the member will face administrative action up to and including banning if severe enough."

Edited by -Windrider-
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I have just witnessed the mighty mod power in action. It makes me feel comforted, since I was once accidentally rude in a thread and got reprimanded and I was afraid I'd get a proto drop. On topic, I would really like it if Okoto had a written language, even if it wasn't this one. It would rekindle the old Bionicle feel.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Skipping past that; I hope these do turn out to be (or later made into) a script of some sort, most probably a relatively simple cypher, but I fully expect most non-RW words to be comprised of /m n p t d k g h r l (j w) i e a o u {shwa-or-shwa-like-phone}/ in a mostly CV syllable structure.

 

Even if Conlangs aren't your thing, if they aren't to intrusive (debatable Klingon; I for one think it's horrible & annoying, others think it adds a bit of depth. On the other hand I like Quenya, and well anyhow;) I think over all they add more positives to a series than a negative if done well. (& I don't believe that means making a deep or complex grammar etc.)

~ Sophistry: A way to be antidisuncorrect. ~


 


 


In a decade you might convince maybe a small tribe of people.


In a decade you might also conquer one million km2 of land,


& in over a thousand years you might have over a billion followers.


 


I like building things. Please don't break the big ones.


& evidential philosophies that dare to extrapolate beyond


an individual's direct experience aren't easily built.

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Intrusive? What do you mean; I don't know much about Klingon.

I don't know much about it myself either, but that clicking does getting annoying.

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Intrusive? What do you mean; I don't know much about Klingon.

 

Some episodes had a lot of it; for no real reason other to show it off. Not many, but it's more that it is a very unrealistic language so for anyone with an interest in linguistics it could be very frustrating - all justified because its an alien language, but regardless of ones interest most people seemed to think it sounded stupid. And they couldn't tone it down. It's not for no reason people make out knowing Klingon as an incredibly 'nerdy'/'geeky' thing; because you really really have to love a show to try and learn something that is so objectively ludicrous - I have no issue with anyone that does but it requires more dedication (which I will applaud).

 

 

I don't know much about it myself either, but that clicking does getting annoying.

 

 

Pretty much this

 

But generally none of this is really relevant because I doubt they'll have anything required for story beyond a collection of simple words; more so I don't think we'll be treated to entire conversations of people speaking a Conlang - maybe something Nuju & a translator (although ironically that was clicking) but I don't think that is off putting.

~ Sophistry: A way to be antidisuncorrect. ~


 


 


In a decade you might convince maybe a small tribe of people.


In a decade you might also conquer one million km2 of land,


& in over a thousand years you might have over a billion followers.


 


I like building things. Please don't break the big ones.


& evidential philosophies that dare to extrapolate beyond


an individual's direct experience aren't easily built.

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