Gen 1 VS Gen 2

[DTCulliton]

Look, Bionicle for 2015 has some "Questionable" differences from gen 1 so lets all come together not to hate but to look at some of the new things and pet peeves we may have on the new gen of Bionicle good or bad.

Good: Mask designs

Bad: Mask names (Seriously Lego, Mask of jungle? I thought it was Miru!)

[bioniclepluslotr]

Good: Bionicle is back

Bad: Names, or lack thereof

[Click]

At this point, it's kind of hard to compare. Gen 1 had a different feeling from what this is shaping up to be. It was complicated, but more like "well-developed" for a long time. Gen 2 is simple, a style reflected in the art, story, and sets. It's designed to look like the old, but with a new design, which I really approve of. Old Bionicle fans are instantly reminded of the '01 sets and story (though we still have plenty of room to complain), while new fans can be captivated by the masks of power and noble warriors, just as we were. And that is awesome. Its a reminder that Lego does care about older fans, but is constantly striving to make something new.

 

More specifically, I really do like the set design. The builds use the same pieces as Hero Factory, but with their new masks and colors, they have a new feel. Not quite like the old Bionicle, but something new that has the same feel of tribal robot warriors. I really like the usefulness of the new pieces and the new mask attachment. 

 

As for things I don't like, the price, for one thing, but that's about worth it based on how awesome everything looks. As much as we've seen of the story is somewhat oversimplified. The masks seem a bit redundant to just amplify their powers (as far as I've heard), and it really bugs me that one of the major story elements is the Mask of Ultimate Power. The personality quirks are ridiculous and cartoony. The original Mata definitely had character flaws (Kopaka was too independent, Tahu was a hothead, Pohatu wasn't careful, etc.), but these are just funny problems meant to add comedic relief to the shorts. I liked Gen 1's well-timed puns and wry remarks, but this goes against the serious nature it seems to have. I really hope the "Protectors" have more distinct personalities in the story, because as far as we know, the sets are just a basic depiction of what the Protectors of each element look like. They just seem like drones, like the Bohrok or Visorak. There's hundreds of them, so why bother focusing on the character development and personality of one?

 

So, that's what I've got so far. I hope some things will be better by the official release, so I'll hold off my prejudices for now.

[Axilus Prime]

Much too early to be making comparisons like this. Wait until we have at least a year's worth of content to start comparing, and even then, compare it only to '01.

[Mallow Toa of Smashing]

The new direction looks promising. I like the general atmosphere they seem to be going for, but I don't like the names for certain things. I think it's odd that the masks are just "masks" and not "kanohi", that the masters are rarely referred to as toa, and that the protectors aren't referred to as matoran at all (come on LEGO, we know they're matoran). This also makes me wonder how Rahi will be portrayed in this generation. I do however LOVE that the villain is called Makuta, and just Makuta. I was never exactly opposed to Makuta's real name being Teridax, but Makuta just sounds better. Personally, I like where it's going, but there are aspects I'm a little skeptical about.

 

Also the sets are cool. Even if they use CCBS parts.

[Iblis]

At this point, it's kind of hard to compare. Gen 1 had a different feeling from what this is shaping up to be. It was complicated, but more like "well-developed" for a long time. Gen 2 is simple, a style reflected in the art, story, and sets. It's designed to look like the old, but with a new design, which I really approve of. Old Bionicle fans are instantly reminded of the '01 sets and story (though we still have plenty of room to complain), while new fans can be captivated by the masks of power and noble warriors, just as we were. And that is awesome. Its a reminder that Lego does care about older fans, but is constantly striving to make something new.

 

More specifically, I really do like the set design. The builds use the same pieces as Hero Factory, but with their new masks and colors, they have a new feel. Not quite like the old Bionicle, but something new that has the same feel of tribal robot warriors. I really like the usefulness of the new pieces and the new mask attachment. 

 

^Almost completely agree with you!

 

 

As for things I don't like, the price, for one thing,   but that's about worth it based on how awesome everything looks. As much as we've seen of the story is somewhat oversimplified. 

 

Completely disagree with you here, to buy all the Toa in 2001 would have costed me ~$60 adjusted for inflation this would be about $83 according to the Reserve Bank of Australia, now $80/6=$13.34, now this isn't the most accurate thing by a long shot ^{(although I've tried to round in my 'disfavour')} but 2001: "8534 Tahu" had 33 pieces, 2015: "70787 Tahu: Master of Fire" has 89 pieces, & honestly to me it looks like the 2015 Toa have more pieces that are less specialised (even as a ratio) -- I could be entirely wrong, but is an extra $7 (minimum) today, not worth an extra 50+ pieces? Even if we are paying double the price (which is certainly what it looks like if you don't adjust for inflation) not worth what is at least double the pieces?

 

^{(I'm yet to compare the prices of the Protectors to anything else but that seems more like a case of apples and oranges, which this is as well in my opinion.)}

 

 

The masks seem a bit redundant to just amplify their powers (as far as I've heard), and it really bugs me that one of the major story elements is the Mask of Ultimate Power. The personality quirks are ridiculous and cartoony. The original Mata definitely had character flaws (Kopaka was too independent, Tahu was a hothead, Pohatu wasn't careful, etc.), but these are just funny problems meant to add comedic relief to the shorts. I liked Gen 1's well-timed puns and wry remarks, but this goes against the serious nature it seems to have. I really hope the "Protectors" have more distinct personalities in the story, because as far as we know, the sets are just a basic depiction of what the Protectors of each element look like. They just seem like drones, like the Bohrok or Visorak. There's hundreds of them, so why bother focusing on the character development and personality of one?

 

I'm yet to judge the masks because I haven't heard anything solid about them yet, & as the series progresses it could go a different way, but I can understand your concern there. "Mask of  Ultimate Power" does sound like a silly name, but eh... The personality quirks aren't exactly inspiring a huge sense of depth but I don't think they are intrinsically bad, they just need other things to support them so hopefully room for decent character development ... but that's not necessarily what's going to happen, & the worry isn't unfounded. Pretty much agree with you on G1 there. As for the Protectors... well we haven't heard anything about them yet beyond they exist? ^{(I think?)} Regardless I hope they have proper personalities to - it would have been nice if they had differant masks; but hey maybe that mask is indicative of rank? ^{I can be hopeful! :3}

 

So, that's what I've got so far. I hope some things will be better by the official release, so I'll hold off my prejudices for now.

 

I'll try! As you can see I'm more than a bit optimistic-biased! ^-^

 

PS: For those that care, here are comparisons between the 2001 & 2015 Toa, without me doing any silly adjustments for inflation: $10Aud in 2001, & let’s say $20Aud in 2015 ^{(That isn't the actual converted value, just my go to figure)}

 

Name of Toa -- 2001 # of pieces -- 2015 # of pieces

Gali                        35                          87

Kopaka                  33                          97

Lewa                     36                           85

Onua                     30                         109

Pohatu                   49                           66

Tahu                      33                           89

 

2001 total: 216, 2015 total 533

216/6=36, 533/6=88

88-36=52

Thus on average I'll be paying "$10" more for 52 extra bricks, or if I my sleep deprived brain hasn't failed me ^(again), that's roughly 1.4 extra bricks per brick!

And yes from a purely $ to piece ^{(which is, I think something that many will see as overly simplistic)} Pohatu isn't as economical buy as say Onua, but there's more things to take into account when deciding what to buy

 

The extra cost is worth it, I swear! Although sadly it might stop ^{(what I suspect what will ultimately be a minority, relatively speaking)} some kids from being able to get their parents to buy them But... I think overall it'll work out.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Iblis616

[bioniclepluslotr]

 

At this point, it's kind of hard to compare. Gen 1 had a different feeling from what this is shaping up to be. It was complicated, but more like "well-developed" for a long time. Gen 2 is simple, a style reflected in the art, story, and sets. It's designed to look like the old, but with a new design, which I really approve of. Old Bionicle fans are instantly reminded of the '01 sets and story (though we still have plenty of room to complain), while new fans can be captivated by the masks of power and noble warriors, just as we were. And that is awesome. Its a reminder that Lego does care about older fans, but is constantly striving to make something new.

 

More specifically, I really do like the set design. The builds use the same pieces as Hero Factory, but with their new masks and colors, they have a new feel. Not quite like the old Bionicle, but something new that has the same feel of tribal robot warriors. I really like the usefulness of the new pieces and the new mask attachment. 

 

^Almost completely agree with you!

 

 

As for things I don't like, the price, for one thing,   but that's about worth it based on how awesome everything looks. As much as we've seen of the story is somewhat oversimplified. 

 

Completely disagree with you here, to buy all the Toa in 2001 would have costed me ~$60 adjusted for inflation this would be about $83 according to the Reserve Bank of Australia, now $80/6=$13.34, now this isn't the most accurate thing by a long shot ^{(although I've tried to round in my 'disfavour')} but 2001: "8534 Tahu" had 33 pieces, 2015: "70787 Tahu: Master of Fire" has 89 pieces, & honestly to me it looks like the 2015 Toa have more pieces that are less specialised (even as a ratio) -- I could be entirely wrong, but is an extra $7 (minimum) today, not worth an extra 50+ pieces? Even if we are paying double the price (which is certainly what it looks like if you don't adjust for inflation) not worth what is at least double the pieces?

 

^{(I'm yet to compare the prices of the Protectors to anything else but that seems more like a case of apples and oranges, which this is as well in my opinion.)}

 

 

The masks seem a bit redundant to just amplify their powers (as far as I've heard), and it really bugs me that one of the major story elements is the Mask of Ultimate Power. The personality quirks are ridiculous and cartoony. The original Mata definitely had character flaws (Kopaka was too independent, Tahu was a hothead, Pohatu wasn't careful, etc.), but these are just funny problems meant to add comedic relief to the shorts. I liked Gen 1's well-timed puns and wry remarks, but this goes against the serious nature it seems to have. I really hope the "Protectors" have more distinct personalities in the story, because as far as we know, the sets are just a basic depiction of what the Protectors of each element look like. They just seem like drones, like the Bohrok or Visorak. There's hundreds of them, so why bother focusing on the character development and personality of one?

 

I'm yet to judge the masks because I haven't heard anything solid about them yet, & as the series progresses it could go a different way, but I can understand your concern there. "Mask of  Ultimate Power" does sound like a silly name, but eh... The personality quirks aren't exactly inspiring a huge sense of depth but I don't think they are intrinsically bad, they just need other things to support them so hopefully room for decent character development ... but that's not necessarily what's going to happen, & the worry isn't unfounded. Pretty much agree with you on G1 there. As for the Protectors... well we haven't heard anything about them yet beyond they exist? ^{(I think?)} Regardless I hope they have proper personalities to - it would have been nice if they had differant masks; but hey maybe that mask is indicative of rank? ^{I can be hopeful! :3}

 

So, that's what I've got so far. I hope some things will be better by the official release, so I'll hold off my prejudices for now.

 

I'll try! As you can see I'm more than a bit optimistic-biased! ^-^

PS: For those that care, here are comparisons between the 2001 & 2015 Toa, without me doing any silly adjustments for inflation: $10Aud in 2001, & let’s say $20Aud in 2015 ^{(That isn't the actual converted value, just my go to figure)}

 

Name of Toa -- 2001 # of pieces -- 2015 # of pieces

Gali                        35                          87

Kopaka                  33                          97

Lewa                     36                           85

Onua                     30                         109

Pohatu                   49                           66

Tahu                      33                           89

 

2001 total: 216, 2015 total 533

216/6=36, 533/6=88

88-36=52

Thus on average I'll be paying "$10" more for 52 extra bricks, or if I my sleep deprived brain hasn't failed me ^(again), that's roughly 1.4 extra bricks per brick!

And yes from a purely $ to piece ^{(which is, I think something that many will see as overly simplistic)} Pohatu isn't as economical buy as say Onua, but there's more things to take into account when deciding what to buy

 

The extra cost is worth it, I swear! Although sadly it might stop ^{(what I suspect what will ultimately be a minority, relatively speaking)} some kids from being able to get their parents to buy them But... I think overall it'll work out.

 

$10 AUD in 2001?? I thought it was like $6-7 if I remember correctly.

[masterchirox580]

Story wise I don't think it's fair to compare the two, gen 1 had ten years to build it's gigantic universe whereas gen 2 hasn't even started yet, so I don't think I'm going to compare them until gen 2 is over. When it comes to the sets simply put they look like some of the best products to bionicle's name and in a lot of ways are looking much better then their gen 1 counterparts, not to mention these new sets really show off what can be done with CCBS, you can tell just by looking at them that this reboot was indeed in development for 2 years. 

[Banana Gunz]

Again, it's too early to start making direct comparisons, and even so they're looking to be different from each other, so they can't really be judged fairly side-by-side. I mean, for goodness sake the line hasn't even been released yet!

 

If there's one thing that I'm hoping the new Bionicle won't lack that Gen 1 had was an expansive universe and canon. One of the coolest things about the old canon was how you could make up your own characters and stories and how open it was with many environments and settings. I'd love a somewhat simpler and easy to follow Bionicle now, but I still hope it retains some of that cool complexity without overdoing it!

[Ford]

Good: the way the story looks

Bad: changes in the mask powers.

I mean, what good is Kopaka's mask if it can't use X-ray vision, even though it looks like it should. However, the animations and books haven't come out yet, so MAYBE it could be a power not mentioned in the new character bio. 

[Iblis]

$10 AUD in 2001?? I thought it was like $6-7 if I remember correctly.

 

Well according to Brickipedia, They were $9.99, I never actually owned any of the Toa Mata though, my first Toa were the Toa Nuva (which form memory were around $12Aud - same as the Rahkshi) but Brickipedia doesn't have anything to say about them... ^{(BS01, & The BIONICLE Wiki are both pathetic for anything outside of the story)}

 

So you probably do remember correctly, but still; if the 2001 Toa were $6 - $7, & the 2015 Toa are $20(?), so 3~ times the price for almost 3 times the amount of pieces?

 

36 ^{(the 2001 average)}, *3 = 108;

108 - 88 ^{(the 2015 average)} = 20 pieces short

$20/108=0.19

0.19 * 20 = $3.80 extra

Not to bad if you ask me, ^{with a 14 year gap;} blame inflation

 

Back to main topic: I hope they decide to release at least 1 Titan set in Wave 1 of each year from now on though

 

(I'm totally predicting: 6× Villains [Protector Sized], 6× Villains [Toa Sized], 1× Hero *cough-cough*, ~2× Titans; for wave 2 of 2015)

 

Oh and;

 

I mean, what good is Kopaka's mask if it can't use X-ray vision, even though it looks like it should. However, the animations and books haven't come out yet, so MAYBE it could be a power not mentioned in the new character bio. 

He might still have X-ray vision as a 'mechanical'/normal ability (from the Mask)... maybe :$ But that's a really good point

 

 

Edit: To be clear $20 is just a number I'm using because I figured it would be a safe upper limit.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Iblis616

[Jacks]

$10 AUD in 2001?? I thought it was like $6-7 if I remember correctly.

They were $7 USD, so $10 AUD sounds about right to me.

 

Frankly, I think they could conceivably have been even higher, since U.S. dollars were much stronger 14 years ago, if I recall correctly

Edited November 2, 2014 by Jacks

[bioniclepluslotr]

I remember the rage when my parents found out I was buying Barraki for $10 a piece. They thought the Mata were expensive

[25K Now!]

This thread sounds like it would be better once 2015 actually arrives.

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

Too early to say. While the change of masks is quite disappointing to me, I will have to see how it plays out in the story to make a full comparison.

 

-NotS

[user-402520536]

Gali                        35                          87

Kopaka                  33                          97

Lewa                     36                           85

Onua                     30                         109

Pohatu                   49                           66

Tahu                      33                           89

 

Funny how Onua originally had the smallest piece count, but in 2015, he has the largest piece count. Also funny how Pohatu originally had the largest piece count, but in 2015, he has the smallest piece count. I'd bet Pohatufans aren't too thrilled! 

Edited November 4, 2014 by Triclops-Echo