The Future of Bionicle

[Zippo]

One thing I've noticed about a lot of toy lines is that they tend to re-use the same main characters again and again, only with some slight variations. Ex1: Whenever a superhero film is released, they also release 20 different variants of that same hero, just with new gear/features ("Scuba Diving Batman!"). Ex2: Hero Factory gave us essentially the same heroes again and again, only they sold new "upgraded" versions of them every wave.

 

That got me thinking: Bionicle was rather different from other toy lines, because every wave usually brought us brand new characters. Over time, however, this ended up making the story very complex and sophisticated, because with each wave we'd get new characters, and the story would shift its focus from the original Mata, to the Metru, to the Inika, etc.

 

My question is: Do you think this iteration of Bionicle should stick with the 6 Toa/Masters, or should it give us new heroes/villains every year? Would you prefer a simpler story about the 6 heroes we have now, or would you like to see new characters/reinterpretations of old characters?

Edited November 8, 2014 by Zippo

[Sumiki]

I have a feeling that it'll be more along the lines of Hero Factory in that there will be a core group of characters which get re-released every so often; since G2 seems to be a nice blend of G1 and HF, I'm thinking that for the sake of simplicity we'll continue to get Tahus and Kopakas along with some other names.

[Toa Alvarno]

I hope we see more or less the same characters each year but with a few new heroes thrown in every once in a while. But I think they're free to have as many villains as possible. The only thing that would bother me is if they released new version of the current six masters that ultimately makes every previous iteration obsolete. Like maybe a permanent upgrade or something in the same vein as the Nuva or Mahri evolutions.

[Toa Smoke Monster]

I think that Gen 2 Bionicle should stick with the Toa/Masters as the main protagonists of the story for the duration of it. That way, they can get some good character development in the story. (Hopefully)

 

As for villains, I wouldn't mind the Toa facing new ones every year. But maybe the villain sets could represent multiple versions of the villains (like the Rahi and Bohrok) instead of each villain having his/her own individual identity (like the Piraka and Barracki). That way, the main villain, whether it be Teridax, Lord of Skull Spiders, or someone else not revealed yet, could also get some character development of his/her own.

[The 1st Shadow]

While I'd be okay with having a story that mainly focuses on the 6 Masters, it would be nice to have some variety. Say, every other wave or so we get a new group of characters, and then go back to the Masters. A healthy balance of the two ideas, basically.

[IXRollOutIX]

Seeing as the line has been projected as a three year run, I'm hoping the releases will be similar to 2001-2003. The first year they release the six Toa and some enemies. The second year they release a secondary threat, and at the end of it all the Toa are upgraded. In the third year they use their upgrades to engage an all-powerful villain that the previous two years were leading up to.

 

From there... Who knows? I'd certainly like to see an all new Toa team eventually.

[Toa Alvarno]

Seeing as the line has been projected as a three year run, I'm hoping the releases will be similar to 2001-2003. The first year they release the six Toa and some enemies. The second year they release a secondary threat, and at the end of it all the Toa are upgraded. In the third year they use their upgrades to engage an all-powerful villain that the previous two years were leading up to.

 

From there... Who knows? I'd certainly like to see an all new Toa team eventually.

Seriously? I can't believe that. Did they confirm that it's going to be only for three years? They only just brought it back!

[Lyichir]

 

Seeing as the line has been projected as a three year run, I'm hoping the releases will be similar to 2001-2003. The first year they release the six Toa and some enemies. The second year they release a secondary threat, and at the end of it all the Toa are upgraded. In the third year they use their upgrades to engage an all-powerful villain that the previous two years were leading up to.

 

From there... Who knows? I'd certainly like to see an all new Toa team eventually.

Seriously? I can't believe that. Did they confirm that it's going to be only for three years? They only just brought it back!

 

It's not ONLY going to be three years. Basically, it's currently planned for a three-year run. After this year's sales are reported and such, though, they very well might consider extending it. Lego doesn't create master 10-year plans for themes before those themes have even started; they create more modest plans which can be adjusted based on the theme's success. The original Bionicle was planned to possibly end after one year, then extended to three, then extended further from there. Ninjago was only planned for three years, as well; and while they ended up going without a summer wave last year due to underestimating how well the theme would maintain its popularity, they DID end up extending it and now it's set to run AT LEAST until the movie in 2017.

[Klack]

I have a feeling that it'll be more along the lines of Hero Factory in that there will be a core group of characters which get re-released every so often; since G2 seems to be a nice blend of G1 and HF, I'm thinking that for the sake of simplicity we'll continue to get Tahus and Kopakas along with some other names.

Go thing yo're not in the 14th Century, in the Bionicle Universe.

[Aanchir]

I definitely want BIONICLE to keep the same main characters for as long as possible. The way BIONICLE would bring main characters in and out of the spotlight was rather clumsy. It limited the amount of character development the main characters could get — all things considered, I feel like Ninjago has already had more character development for its main cast than the Toa Mata ever did. What's more, I feel like it contributed to the problem of new versions of characters looking radically unlike their previous depictions, since there could be huge changes in the theme in the intervening time between different versions of a character.

 

Keeping the same main characters is one of the things I think themes like Hero Factory and Ninjago have done right, and if Hero Factory made any mistake, it was introducing too many new characters. Keeping nine different heroes in the spotlight turned out to be unsustainable in the long run, so the 2012 TV special ended up omitting three heroes and their corresponding villains, and Nex and Stringer disappeared from the sets and the main story alike in all subsequent years.

 

There's a reason why toys and stories about popular characters like Batman keep selling year after year. They are characters people love. Taking those characters away and expecting people to immediately fall just as deeply in love with some previously minor character or completely new character is utterly ludicrous. Besides that, do you honestly think a character like Tahu has less staying power than a character like Kai or William Furno? Because if so, that's not saying a lot for the quality of BIONICLE set design and storytelling.

 

Introducing new characters is definitely a good way to increase the complexity of a storyline, but it shouldn't come at the expense of the existing characters. BIONICLE was smart about its cast of characters in some ways. Instead of just introducing some random upstarts to replace the previous team of heroes, they consistently drew from their established cast of characters. But while the earlier main characters did continue to appear in side-stories, they disappeared completely from sets in years when they weren't the main characters, and became practically irrelevant to the main story in those years. The old main characters (Tahu, Gali, etc.) became less important to the new story than the new main characters (Jaller, Hewkii, etc.) had been to the old story. And I think that was a mistake.

[Blueblur21]

I wouldn't mind the same characters being released every few years (As long as they have a very good reason to be,). I DO however think that the villains need to have their own individual identity. This is the reason why characters like the Barraki and Piraka are popular. They had their own unique personalities and backstories (Anyone remember Pridak blinding Kalmah over a disagreement? I didn't know that when I got his set.) And if LEGO is going to go the Hero Factory route, they had better give the heroes more than enough development.

 

And for the record, the Toa Inika/Mahri were one of the most popular teams ever. Having a special theme and features helped.

[Banana Gunz]

I feel that there's a balance that ought to be struck. I definitely want plenty of character development and want a central group of heroes I can look to at the time. It would be a mistake to replace them year after year, for they would never get developed enough to actually like them.

 

But I still feel one of the cool and refreshing parts about Bionicle was how there were several toa teams that could satisfy you and keep things fresh. True, themes like Ninjago have had great character development for all of their time so far and didn't need to replace them, but I love seeing completely new characters that you can explore and that you know very little about. It adds a great feel that you're exploring them and figuring out who they are rather than just waiting to see what else Lego plans on adding on to old characters to make them more interesting.

 

I think every three or so years a new cast would be amazing, but that the old one would have to be retired, or else you have an excess of characters building up and confusing the plot, which then makes you have to come up with more side quests, threats and stories to keep them busy. This just clutters up things and leads to stuff like the infamous serials being made.

[Sumiki]

 

I have a feeling that it'll be more along the lines of Hero Factory in that there will be a core group of characters which get re-released every so often; since G2 seems to be a nice blend of G1 and HF, I'm thinking that for the sake of simplicity we'll continue to get Tahus and Kopakas along with some other names.

Go thing yo're not in the 14th Century, in the Bionicle Universe.

 

What exactly is this statement supposed to mean?

[Zidonaro]

I REALLY hope we get new Toa characters. BIONICLE G1 didn't have new heroes characters that much.

[Hasreadit]

I feel that there's a balance that ought to be struck. I definitely want plenty of character development and want a central group of heroes I can look to at the time. It would be a mistake to replace them year after year, for they would never get developed enough to actually like them.

 

But I still feel one of the cool and refreshing parts about Bionicle was how there were several toa teams that could satisfy you and keep things fresh. True, themes like Ninjago have had great character development for all of their time so far and didn't need to replace them, but I love seeing completely new characters that you can explore and that you know very little about. It adds a great feel that you're exploring them and figuring out who they are rather than just waiting to see what else Lego plans on adding on to old characters to make them more interesting.

 

I think every three or so years a new cast would be amazing, but that the old one would have to be retired, or else you have an excess of characters building up and confusing the plot, which then makes you have to come up with more side quests, threats and stories to keep them busy. This just clutters up things and leads to stuff like the infamous serials being made.

This. I feel like once a team solves all their problems and can work together very well, they start to get more boring

[Aanchir]

 

I feel that there's a balance that ought to be struck. I definitely want plenty of character development and want a central group of heroes I can look to at the time. It would be a mistake to replace them year after year, for they would never get developed enough to actually like them.

 

But I still feel one of the cool and refreshing parts about Bionicle was how there were several toa teams that could satisfy you and keep things fresh. True, themes like Ninjago have had great character development for all of their time so far and didn't need to replace them, but I love seeing completely new characters that you can explore and that you know very little about. It adds a great feel that you're exploring them and figuring out who they are rather than just waiting to see what else Lego plans on adding on to old characters to make them more interesting.

 

I think every three or so years a new cast would be amazing, but that the old one would have to be retired, or else you have an excess of characters building up and confusing the plot, which then makes you have to come up with more side quests, threats and stories to keep them busy. This just clutters up things and leads to stuff like the infamous serials being made.

This. I feel like once a team solves all their problems and can work together very well, they start to get more boring

 

That's because having fixable problems as a character's only defining personality traits is poor writing. Do your friends get boring as soon as they get along well with you and others? Of course not, because they're real people with actual, complex personalities, not just a shallow, forced tendency to argue and part ways with their teammates at every opportunity.

 

The heroes of LEGO Ninjago have managed to last so long as protagonists because despite growing and overcoming the flaws and misgivings of their youth as they've gained experience, they still have very genuine personality differences. Kai no longer wants to do everything on his own terms, but he's still rather hasty and hot-headed. Zane is no longer worried about not knowing where he comes from or where he belongs, but he's still very analytical and a bit humorless. Sometimes these things still cause tensions, because you can't just write off a core aspect of your personality because it's getting in the way of teamwork. But they have learned to accept each other for their faults and help each other overcome them. I find it a bit ridiculous that some people consider the ninja of LEGO Ninjago childish when in fact they work better as teammates than the Toa Mata, and they didn't need to learn the importance of teamwork three or four times to get to that point.

 

Outside of LEGO brands, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic (another franchise which is just as merchandise-driven) is going into its fifth season and hasn't yet had to replace a single member of its main cast. Sure, there are a few gripes about how they're characterized in particular episodes (as there are in any franchise), but in general fans still love the characters even though they've been able to learn from their mistakes and grow past them. Do you think really think Tahu and his team will get "boring" quicker than a nerdy purple unicorn or a timid yellow pegasus? I'd like to think that if written right they could have just as much staying power, if not more. If they get boring after three years, it means the writers have not done the characters justice. And that's not something fresh faces will fix, because without good writing the new characters will turn out to be just as shallow.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Aanchir

[fishers64]

All I have to say to the above is Time Trap. In a word. That should show how powerful character development can be. 

 

But I have an old lecture on this subject, which I'll indulge. There are, IMO, three ways to write a character conflict. 

 

1) Character flaw - the character has to overcome some internal flaw. This requires development, hardships, pain, etc for the character to learn. This flaw continually gets in the characters' way. The advantage of this type of story is that people who empathize with that flaw (or flaws, can be multiples) will enjoy the story. Those that don't will find your story frustrating - "Just get over it already!".  

 

2) The Overwhelming Forces clause - Okay, so your character is the Man. He is James Bond. He is Captain Kirk (in orginal TOS ). But the forces arrayed against him are so freaking powerful that he's not going to beat this challenge easily. He is beset by "overwhelming forces". Cue Ender's Game - the little kid versus the mega-powerful alien hivemind. The advantage of this story is that your characters are unquestionably awesome and your story is rockin' full of tension. The disadvantage is that the story becomes awfully predictable - the overwhelming forces don't seem so overwhelming anymore, because the hero smashed them in grand style 10 episodes back. 

 

3) Both. 

 

Arguably, #3 is the best kind of story. The Metru Nui arc is an incredible blend - it started off as a character flaw story and changed to an overwhelming forces story as time went on (Visorak venom/Makuta with 42 kraata powers & Voporak, TSO, etc more than qualify). Character flaw --> overwhelming forces. 

 

And that's what makes Time Trap so well done - it's a straight-up overwhelming forces story (Vakama vs. Makuta/TSO & Voporak & Sentrakh). But Vakama was a flawed character before. He has changed. He has overcome all of those flaws that were holding him back. Due to this, we find him realistic, on our level. Now he's whipping and making deals and cutting victories out of the air. Lines like "he wasn't a novice Toa Metru now" and "either the universe has gone insane, or I have. I vote for the universe." when he was previously called a "cross-wired freak" bring it home. 

 

You'll find this in Ninjago too - as the Ninja develop as characters, the threats intensify and get more overwhelming. What is worse than the Overlord? An Overlord...well, I'm not going to spoil the end of season 4, but point being. It's a reliable story formula, one that works well in this context. I so badly want to see it again in the new Bionicle, but Vakama was lightning in bottle. I don't think they can top that, but they should try. 

[Ford]

I was wondering the same thing when the news broke...

The thing is, in Hero Factory's run people would get fed up with seeing characters again and again (like Rocka and Evo!).

I feel that Bionicle could run the same mistake if they do the same, but new characters could make the story complex again. Lego is treading through some tough terrain with this...

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

I hope some characters will be brought back, as I can see additions to the current Toa team. Assuming they will follow the formula of Ninjago and Hero Factory, I doubt they will do constant cast-changing like G1. "Canister"-sized villains will probably end up being pretty uncharacterized too. 

 

-NotS

[Aanchir]

I hope some characters will be brought back, as I can see additions to the current Toa team. Assuming they will follow the formula of Ninjago and Hero Factory, I doubt they will do constant cast-changing like G1. "Canister"-sized villains will probably end up being pretty uncharacterized too. 

 

-NotS

I wouldn't say that. After all, Legends of Chima has had a lot of detailed characterization for all of its villains. Ninjago usually hasn't in its main story medium (the TV show), but you have to keep in mind that when each character represents an entire product, not just part of one, the writers might want to pay more specific attention to them in the story rather than just treating them as drones.

 

Also, the term "canister-sized" is really losing relevance because the new Toa are much larger (by piece count) than BIONICLE canister sets have ever been, and likewise the Protectors have nearly twice as many pieces on average as the original canister sets, the Toa Mata. Not to mention that Lord of Skull Spiders, a set with nearly twice the piece count of a Nui-Rama and more pieces than an individual Nui-Jaga, is priced at $15 just like the smaller Toa.

 

No matter how you define "canister-sized", it could easily just result in confusion as people try to tell whether you're talking about a $10, $15, or $20 set. Yes, even some of the current $20 sets could be considered "canister-sized" if you're talking strictly in terms of their height, since Tahu and Kopaka are both shorter than and have shoulders the same width as a Toa Inika.

[bonesiii]

As much as emulating Hero Factory is usually a bad idea, I've said for a long time new Bionicle should do what HF does for the main characters getting to be sets and story focus for a long time.

 

Had the return been a future continuation we would already have had a way -- the adaptive armor. But some similar explanation is still possible in a reboot.

 

Occasionally I do think they should have other characters, though.

[UnderscoreChronix]

It should be like G1. Stick with the main characters for a couple of years, then take a break with some new characters for a few years, then go back to the original characters.

[Hasreadit]

 

 

I feel that there's a balance that ought to be struck. I definitely want plenty of character development and want a central group of heroes I can look to at the time. It would be a mistake to replace them year after year, for they would never get developed enough to actually like them.

 

But I still feel one of the cool and refreshing parts about Bionicle was how there were several toa teams that could satisfy you and keep things fresh. True, themes like Ninjago have had great character development for all of their time so far and didn't need to replace them, but I love seeing completely new characters that you can explore and that you know very little about. It adds a great feel that you're exploring them and figuring out who they are rather than just waiting to see what else Lego plans on adding on to old characters to make them more interesting.

 

I think every three or so years a new cast would be amazing, but that the old one would have to be retired, or else you have an excess of characters building up and confusing the plot, which then makes you have to come up with more side quests, threats and stories to keep them busy. This just clutters up things and leads to stuff like the infamous serials being made.

This. I feel like once a team solves all their problems and can work together very well, they start to get more boring

That's because having fixable problems as a character's only defining personality traits is poor writing. Do your friends get boring as soon as they get along well with you and others? Of course not, because they're real people with actual, complex personalities, not just a shallow, forced tendency to argue and part ways with their teammates at every opportunity.

 

The heroes of LEGO Ninjago have managed to last so long as protagonists because despite growing and overcoming the flaws and misgivings of their youth as they've gained experience, they still have very genuine personality differences. Kai no longer wants to do everything on his own terms, but he's still rather hasty and hot-headed. Zane is no longer worried about not knowing where he comes from or where he belongs, but he's still very analytical and a bit humorless. Sometimes these things still cause tensions, because you can't just write off a core aspect of your personality because it's getting in the way of teamwork. But they have learned to accept each other for their faults and help each other overcome them. I find it a bit ridiculous that some people consider the ninja of LEGO Ninjago childish when in fact they work better as teammates than the Toa Mata, and they didn't need to learn the importance of teamwork three or four times to get to that point.

 

Outside of LEGO brands, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic (another franchise which is just as merchandise-driven) is going into its fifth season and hasn't yet had to replace a single member of its main cast. Sure, there are a few gripes about how they're characterized in particular episodes (as there are in any franchise), but in general fans still love the characters even though they've been able to learn from their mistakes and grow past them. Do you think really think Tahu and his team will get "boring" quicker than a nerdy purple unicorn or a timid yellow pegasus? I'd like to think that if written right they could have just as much staying power, if not more. If they get boring after three years, it means the writers have not done the characters justice. And that's not something fresh faces will fix, because without good writing the new characters will turn out to be just as shallow.

Well, it sounds to me like Ninjago has done a mucho better job developing the main characters than Bionicle did. They made Tahu become generic leader 5,000 and he seemed to lose all of his hot-headedness randomly. I also feel like Bionicle LOVED to manufacture teamwork problems in the first couple of years to help develop the characters, which had its pros and cons. The thing about Ninjago which sounds cool is characters that still have traits, which from 2006 onwards I say Bionicle had trouble doing.

 

However, I still dislike too many versions of the same character because I dislike the basic idea: That the main character needs to be updated so many times. Also, more new heroes contributes to the chronicle-y part of them. The history aspect of Bionicle was really cool, and multiple teams really help this imo.

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

I wouldn't say that. After all, Legends of Chima has had a lot of detailed characterization for all of its villains. Ninjago usually hasn't in its main story medium (the TV show), but you have to keep in mind that when each character represents an entire product, not just part of one, the writers might want to pay more specific attention to them in the story rather than just treating them as drones.

Also, the term "canister-sized" is really losing relevance because the new Toa are much larger (by piece count) than BIONICLE canister sets have ever been, and likewise the Protectors have nearly twice as many pieces on average as the original canister sets, the Toa Mata. Not to mention that Lord of Skull Spiders, a set with nearly twice the piece count of a Nui-Rama and more pieces than an individual Nui-Jaga, is priced at $15 just like the smaller Toa.

 

No matter how you define "canister-sized", it could easily just result in confusion as people try to tell whether you're talking about a $10, $15, or $20 set. Yes, even some of the current $20 sets could be considered "canister-sized" if you're talking strictly in terms of their height, since Tahu and Kopaka are both shorter than and have shoulders the same width as a Toa Inika.

 

Well, just judging by the direction Hero Factory went, as well as the constant changing of the multiple villain characters adding some confusion in the later years of Bionicle. If they have a villain, I assume it will be singular with drones like in the old days of Bionicle. 

 

And my bad about the use of the term, I have 4 years of catching up to do. xD

 

-NotS

[Bennyboo192]

I absolutely hate the thought that Bionicle had less character development than HF or Ninjago. In truth, Bionicle had more character dev in 2 years than Ninjago or HF had in 5. I find it ridiculous that anyone wouldn't want a complex (if somewhat childish-looking) story. That's what Bionicle had and if we didn't love Bionicle, why would we be on this forum? Now, I'm rather biased on this topic. I'm the one who believes that TLG has ruined my life by abandoning the universe I loved so much. So say what you want, but I love the complexity of Bionicle. That's why I liked it.